Why MAC?

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ben chi(f4)

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So, I've been doing photo editing and photoshopping for bit now. I've only ever used a Windows Platform to perform my tasks. I have moved on over to the professional side of photography and I do a lot more editing.

Is there a real difference between Windows Machines and MACs?
 
Using Photoshop, it should come down to personal preference.
 
The difference is that Windows machines run Windows (and OS X if you have the right hardware and know how to get it running) and that Macs run OS X (and Windows).

As far as OS X is concerned, there can be some workflow differences, but the software you'll using is probably going to be the same between the two. Adobe only released a 64-bit version of Photoshop CS4 for Windows, for what that's worth. Lightroom is crossplatform, but Aperture is OS X only.
 
Photoshop is pretty much the same on both platforms. For video editing I like the interface of Final Cut vs. Adobe's Premiere. Adobe has gotten lazy and really they haven't improved the interface or done too much with it in a very long time. Hence why Apple was able to introduce Final Cut and start stealing market share.
 
Dan_D said:
Photoshop is pretty much the same on both platforms. For video editing I like the interface of Final Cut vs. Adobe's Premiere. Adobe has gotten lazy and really they haven't improved the interface or done too much with it in a very long time. Hence why Apple was able to introduce Final Cut and start stealing market share.
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I have a graphics guy here at the office that would argue that they are not the same. When he first got here we put him on Windows and he had only used Mac. He complained about it the whole time till we moved him to a Mac.

We talked about this one day, and he was trying to tell the the key combos are different. What I found is that instead of hitting the apple command key you need to hit the Windows key instead.
 
ianshot said:
I have a graphics guy here at the office that would argue that they are not the same. When he first got here we put him on Windows and he had only used Mac. He complained about it the whole time till we moved him to a Mac.

We talked about this one day, and he was trying to tell the the key combos are different. What I found is that instead of hitting the apple command key you need to hit the Windows key instead.
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Things look a little different on a Mac, but the application is really just about the same on both platforms. It often seems like Mac users are whiny as hell and they bitch about something as trivial as the difference between the Apple Command key and the Windows Key. It is located in a slightly different spot after all. :rolleyes: The OS is different which would put off those who are used to one platform or the other.
 
Dan_D said:
Overpriced?

Truthfully they don't do anything PCs can't and don't do some things as well as PCs do.
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I'll never understand this logic.

People will dump thousands into a PC to play games, and it's "hardcore"

I dump thousands into my Mac for productivity, and I'm an elitist loser.

Something about rocks and glass houses keeps popping into my head whenever I see this.


Anyway, it's all about platform preference these days. There's no real way to quantify how much better or worse one platform is over another.
 
I bought a MBP because 1) It looks nice, I like nice looking computers. If I am going to use something all day I should enjoy looking at it at least. 2) Needed a dual-link DVI (or DisplayPort for that matter) to drive my 30". 3) I like a Unix/Linux base to code on.

So yeah it comes down to preference. I don't think Macs are better in any way but I do like OSX interface more than Win7.
 
KaosDG said:
I'll never understand this logic.

People will dump thousands into a PC to play games, and it's "hardcore"

I dump thousands into my Mac for productivity, and I'm an elitist loser.

Something about rocks and glass houses keeps popping into my head whenever I see this.


Anyway, it's all about platform preference these days. There's no real way to quantify how much better or worse one platform is over another.
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I have no problem with people dumping thousands of dollars into a gaming machine, or a workstation. I think you can probably get a more powerful workstation for the same money with from another company, or if you build it yourself. I just looked at the Apple website and found the specifications of the Mac Pro to be, "wanting" in regard to a few things and they charge too much for it. Their video card selection, etc. do not make sense for a serious workstation. The best card you can get is a 4870 512MB? Its either that or a bunch of entry level Quadro cards. The workstation as I configured it online based on their options wouldn't be ideal for anything beyond video editing. I can configure a Dell for similar money better suited to other tasks. Oh wait, Final Cut Pro and Pro Tools are about all the Mac is really good for. You can argue all day that they are better for Photoshop but given that I've used it on both platforms, I'm going to disagree with that and say they are roughly the same.

Its just my opinion but I don't think Apple is in touch with what professionals really need outside a few niche applications here and there. They have few options for their workstations and again, not all their options make a whole lot of sense to me. $550 for a second 2TB hard drive? They can keep it for that price.
 
Dan_D said:
Overpriced?

Truthfully they don't do anything PCs can't and don't do some things as well as PCs do.
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Yes... 16GB ram [add $1600] really!? I can get that for $600

Thanks for the responses. It looks like I'll be buying an upgraded machine and just put W7 on it.
 
Dan_D said:
I have no problem with people dumping thousands of dollars into a gaming machine, or a workstation. I think you can probably get a more powerful workstation for the same money with from another company, or if you build it yourself. I just looked at the Apple website and found the specifications of the Mac Pro to be, "wanting" in regard to a few things and they charge too much for it. Their video card selection, etc. do not make sense for a serious workstation. The best card you can get is a 4870 512MB? Its either that or a bunch of entry level Quadro cards. The workstation as I configured it online based on their options wouldn't be ideal for anything beyond video editing. I can configure a Dell for similar money better suited to other tasks. Oh wait, Final Cut Pro and Pro Tools are about all the Mac is really good for. You can argue all day that they are better for Photoshop but given that I've used it on both platforms, I'm going to disagree with that and say they are roughly the same.

Its just my opinion but I don't think Apple is in touch with what professionals really need outside a few niche applications here and there. They have few options for their workstations and again, not all their options make a whole lot of sense to me. $550 for a second 2TB hard drive? They can keep it for that price.
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you do know you don't have to buy most of their options, and can drop in whatever whereever you can get it cheaper, right?
 
There's no difference. Both OS X and Windows 7 will be able to do what you want them to. It comes down to aesthetics of the actual computer itself, what you prefer working with and it really is a matter of personal taste.

PC people will argue you're paying too much. Apple people will argue that you get what you pay for and it may/may not be "better" but again, that's all subjective.

I use Windows XP at work. I have a 15" MacBook Pro for my laptop running Snow Leopard and have a BootCamp partition with XP, and my home desktop is running Windows 7 Professional. I can use all equally, but there is something about using OS X that just happens to make me a bit happier when using it. So, go for what works, and what fits your budget. There's no right/wrong answer.
 
KaosDG said:
you do know you don't have to buy most of their options, and can drop in whatever whereever you can get it cheaper, right?
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Of course I know that. I've worked on hundreds of them. I used to support a large site with both Macs and PCs on the same network. Trust me, I know all about it. What I also know is that the factory warranty only covers factory installed hardware, or hardware procured from the OEM. This is important to some companies.

Again I'm not talking about the operating systems or trying to make this a Mac vs. PC debate, but what I am saying is that hardware wise, Apple's computers are over priced for what you get.
 
That's only sometimes true though, Dan. On occasion, the pricing on their machines is highly competitive.

You can always get more power for less money on the PC side of things, yeah, but horsepower is only one part of the value equation when it comes to personal computing. "What you get" is rarely a simple thing to define and never includes just CPU clock speeds or how many SPs in the GPU, particularly when the intended use is not highly dependent on either (like in the OP's case).
 
Dan_D said:
Things look a little different on a Mac, but the application is really just about the same on both platforms. It often seems like Mac users are whiny as hell and they bitch about something as trivial as the difference between the Apple Command key and the Windows Key. It is located in a slightly different spot after all. :rolleyes: The OS is different which would put off those who are used to one platform or the other.
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I bitch about apple numpad all the time :D
 
MACs are required by every computer. It is used to identify your computer on a network much like IPs. They are burned into every NIC, but they can be overwritten.

I'm afraid you will not be able to access the internet without a MAC address.

For more information please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address
 
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phide said:
That's only sometimes true though, Dan. On occasion, the pricing on their machines is highly competitive.

You can always get more power for less money on the PC side of things, yeah, but horsepower is only one part of the value equation when it comes to personal computing. "What you get" is rarely a simple thing to define and never includes just CPU clock speeds or how many SPs in the GPU, particularly when the intended use is not highly dependent on either (like in the OP's case).
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Aside from the OS and a pretty box (which are two entirely subjective values), what is it that you get with a Mac? Where is the value? Apple's customer service is horrible. I've dealt with them far too many times. It pales in comparison to HP's, Dell's or hell even IBM's. The quality of the components used in their construction aren't any better than those used in comparably priced workstations.
 
ianshot said:
I have a graphics guy here at the office that would argue that they are not the same. When he first got here we put him on Windows and he had only used Mac. He complained about it the whole time till we moved him to a Mac.

We talked about this one day, and he was trying to tell the the key combos are different. What I found is that instead of hitting the apple command key you need to hit the Windows key instead.
Click to expand...

lol he was full of it.

there is no difference between the two that I've ever noticed, except for things that are unique to a mac (like the menu bar and that kind of stuff)
 
dr.stevil said:
lol he was full of it.

there is no difference between the two that I've ever noticed, except for things that are unique to a mac (like the menu bar and that kind of stuff)
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That's been my experience. Of course I've found it typical of Mac guys to hate Windows and complain about it like they can't use it at all, but PC guys forced to use a Mac typically get the hang of it quickly enough to get through the experience even if they don't like it.
 
Dan_D said:
Aside from the OS and a pretty box (which are two entirely subjective values), what is it that you get with a Mac? Where is the value? Apple's customer service is horrible. I've dealt with them far too many times. It pales in comparison to HP's, Dell's or hell even IBM's. The quality of the components used in their construction aren't any better than those used in comparably priced workstations.
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You buy a Mac for the OS and pretty box. There's no aside here.

Also, I only called Apple twice, and that was to get a refund for 2 app store apps, and both of them were American tech support, and were really nice and helpful.
 
ben chi(f4) said:
Yes... 16GB ram [add $1600] really!? I can get that for $600

Thanks for the responses. It looks like I'll be buying an upgraded machine and just put W7 on it.
Click to expand...

You can buy ram from newegg and add it yourself.

OEM's always overcharge for upgrades, its the nature of the business.

Ive been using both for years, I have no preference except to say that OSX has a cleaner looking GUI than WIndows.

I find adobe programs to be all the same on either platform, the shortcuts are a bit different but that's about it.

I bought a quad core imac this time around because the screen was worth $1100 by itself and I wanted a quad core machine that would not take up a ton of space.

Simple really, my last machine was a core i7 that I built for myself, so I am no fanboi.

Fanboi's of any kind are dumb, period.
 
phide said:
The OP said nothing about workstations.
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Fair enough but that basically leaves him stuck with iMacs. Yuck. That's not a slight against Apple, but rather all-in-one type machines in general. I don't like the inflexibility of the design.

Tylerdurdened said:
You buy a Mac for the OS and pretty box. There's no aside here.
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Yeah that's pretty much what I've always thought. That value is of course entirely subjective. However since the OP asked why, I'm going to say; There is no good or compelling reason "Why Mac" unless you care about the aesthetics that much and actually like the operating system. Truthfully beyond that, at their core, the hardware is all the same now.

Tylerdurdened said:
Also, I only called Apple twice, and that was to get a refund for 2 app store apps, and both of them were American tech support, and were really nice and helpful.
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I've only ever called Apple for warranty repairs on workstation machines. The call support people were American from the sound of it, but they have been less than helpful every time. Getting parts or a technician in a timely manner is also not Apple's Forte. You call HP or Dell and need parts, you get a technician or the parts (often your choice), next business day without fail.
 
phide said:
The OP said nothing about workstations.
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Depends on your definition of workstation, I suppose. It being the machine he'll be doing his tasks and professional photo work on isn't workstation-esque enough?
 
To the OP:

Best way to find out if you like Macs is to go to an Apple store and play around with them. If you don't think you like them now or are just "missing" something, chances are they're just not your thing and you shouldn't bother digging deeper.

If you really want to try Macs but not start by paying a whole buttload, google osx86. That's what I did when I was thinking of switching. Then I finally went out and got the real thing.
 
yeah, if you want to give it a shot, you can even run it in vmware these days with little to no trouble (and at full speed too :))
 
Apple sells its computers differently than anyone else, so a comparison isn't valid except on the day/week/whatever it is posted. When Apple comes out with a new or updated model it is generally very fairly priced. Sometimes it is even a better value (particularly on the high end) than what Dell/HP/etc is offering atm. However Apple will not adjust this price later or add in a lot of bto options later on. It will sit with that stuff and at that price until they update again.


As for advantages of a Mac, it is OS X. I happen to love it. You might not, but I do. Spaces (seriously Microsoft... why does Windows 7 STILL not have real multiple desktops?), expose, dashboard, Folder Actions, Applescripts, and Quicksilver on a *nix style OS. Add to this that it can run the apps I want without mucking about with Wine and I am sold. You aren't? That is great, can't say I care what you run.


Now if I mess around with third party junk I can get most of that into Windows, but it will be clunky. And it will do very random things sometimes (particularly multiple desktops). It will work largely the same though. But why would I want to do all that when OS X does it out of the box (with the exception of Quicksilver) and without issue since applications were designed to work that way? However, if you don't like one, don't buy one. It isn't 'needed' for anything.


One thing to note: if you buy a Mac you get the added value that people on the internet will care entirely too much about what you bought! You can't get that from any other company! Just see this thread and every other Mac thread or article allowing comments to ever hit the net! :) Add in popcorn and that is a real hidden value. :p
 
rflcptr said:
Depends on your definition of workstation, I suppose. It being the machine he'll be doing his tasks and professional photo work on isn't workstation-esque enough?
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Well, I don't really know what we'd be comparing, specifically, if every machine that was capable of doing work were classified as a "workstation". I assumed that Dan was referring to the Mac Pro and comparing it to other workstation-class machines by other vendors like Dell and HP or those that are built with off-the-shelf components like Xeon processors, ECC RAM, Quadro or FireGL cards and so forth (what I'd call "workstation-grade" hardware).
 
I have to give Apple and Steve Jobs credit. They are able to convince a decent number of folks that there stuff is better than everyone else's. Then when its not true.

Like the iPad. I've been reading a lot of chatter about this device and its AMAZING what people who've never used areal tablet computer in their lives think about it. Not to get into an iPad debate but one point that I like to mention to would be iPad owners is handwriting recognition.

Up and down they say things like "I can type faster on an on screen keyboard" or "My handwriting is so bad it wouldn't work".

Completely oblivious to the fact that for many of them HWM could VERY well crush their OSK speed. For me HWR is easily 3x faster than an OSK.. Not saying theft would be the case for everyone but they don't even think about trying.

But if HWR were on an iPad then it would become a CRITICAL feature that they couldn't live without and Steve Jobs would be credited with its invention.

These people do exist and they really scare me. Not saying all Apple fans are like this and I know that I have my Microsoft bias but I think at least I try to be open minded.
 
OP:

I find that I prefer the window management abilities of OS X. I am able to do virtually all window management related tasks without touching the keyboard (mouse buttons 4, 5, etc are assigned to Expose/Spaces & the like). I find this makes actually doing stuff much smoother compared to using Windows.
 
phide said:
Well, I don't really know what we'd be comparing, specifically, if every machine that was capable of doing work were classified as a "workstation". I assumed that Dan was referring to the Mac Pro and comparing it to other workstation-class machines by other vendors like Dell and HP or those that are built with off-the-shelf components like Xeon processors, ECC RAM, Quadro or FireGL cards and so forth (what I'd call "workstation-grade" hardware).
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Fair enough, and I agree.
 
back in the day it was CISC vs RISC, and well RISC was faster for that professional photo work, and that got stuck until now, "Apple PCs was better for graphic design than compatible PCs"

But people are starting to see the light :D
 
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