A new paradigm for graphics

AltTabbins

AltTabbins

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
20,486
Lets be honest and say that video cards have done a good job of keeping up with the games offered on the pc platform. There aren't many games that I cant max out with my current setup and almost 2 generation old hd4870. When the new 5 series cards came out, I thought this generation would be trivial. I mean, why upgrade when you have a card that plays everything you want maxed out already?

This is where the paradigm shifts. With the new generation came something that I think will change pc gaming forever. Eyefinity. 3 months ago, high resolution gaming consisted of a single large monitor. True enthusiasts found their muse in 2560 x 1600 30 inch+ monitors for showing off their system's abilities. Even at the premium you pay for such high resolutions, the gaming experience was very static. The only customization you could do was lower your resolution (and who in the right mind would want to do that?). Eyefinity changes how you see your monitor. Now you can have a truly custom setup, choosing which monitors you use and where you put them. There are no gimics like wearing awful 3d glasses (that cost almost as much as the monitor you have... that probably wont work with the glasses) or promises of support in games (with little actual follow through... see physx). There is out of the box support and full compatibility with current systems. Enthusiests can now show off their systems on a wall of power, and the budget gamer with a few extra crt's can enjoy their gaming experience a little more... all standard on the 5 series cards. So the old idea of "I can max out my new games on my old hardware" is a mute point. I should be saying "I can max out my new games on my old hardware... with one monitor".

Its kind of funny. I brought this up in another thread but I wanted to share it here. Its ironic that when a card comes out that finally has the capability to maybe max out Crysis.. it brings a higher resolution with it. I was skeptical about eyefinity at first but after seeing demos and playing with it hands on, its hard to go back to my 2 monitor setup. It is also growing in popularity at a very quick rate and I can imagine it will only become more mainstream with the following generations of cards from AMD and (hopefully) Nvidia.


I applaud you AMD. Good job.
Nvidia, im looking forward to your next generation and hope you offer something similar.
 
Once they get CF working on 5870/5850s in Eyefinity, bezel management and smaller bezel monitors, I expect even those not sure about it would consider upgrading.
 
Nvidia has to offer something similar, it a must! I hope they do it without their standard "1 up" approach.
Just give the people a similar feature without all the needless features unless it's built into the card itself without having to buy extra components.

Crysis 2 is being built from the ground up with Eyefinity, so I'm sure Nvidia will have an answer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04dMyeMKHp4

People are selling their 30" monitor for three 24" monitors. If Nvidia doesn't have this feature, Fermi will be a disappointment.
 
Last edited:
Like I mentioned before, I was really skeptical about it at first. You really have to see it live to catch what its all about. I was blown away seeing it first hand.
 
I think the real market will lay with super wide format monitors as a single solution.
The problem is that they are just too dear at ths stage/prototypes.
I don' t think the average enthusiast or gamer will go for 3 monitors as great as it may be (like TriFire/Tri-SLI
Mark my words, the future gaming displays will be single more wrap around and extended like past prototypes.
 
lloose said:
Like I mentioned before, I was really skeptical about it at first. You really have to see it live to catch what its all about. I was blown away seeing it first hand.
Click to expand...

It's easy to be skeptical staring at screenshots. All you think about is the bezel. But when you actually have a setup at eye level in front of you, the bezel melts away with movement and you're left with awesome immersion and so much more gameworld.
 
PlatinumPC said:
I think the real market will lay with super wide format monitors as a single solution.
The problem is that they are just too dear at ths stage/prototypes.
Click to expand...

It'll be a long long time for these to mature. The market's solidly at 16:9 displays right now. It's just so much cheaper and easier to buy three commodity level 16:9 LCDs and Eyefinity them than spending insane money on a highly specialized super wide monitor.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Nvidia has to offer something similar, it a must! I hope they do it without their standard "1 up" approach.
Click to expand...
I really really hope Nvidia will not pull some crap and make their version of Eyefinity akin to PhysX. Are we going to see sponsored titles only work with Nvidia hardware using multiple monitors? I don't see how they could restrict the resolution, but hey this is Nvidia here they love to play the "quality control" card as justification for locking out features.

I have not seen Eyefinity in action, and honestly at first I thought it was a useless gimmick. But the more I read about it etc. the more I become interested in it.
 
the fact remains though it's still a niche thing at this stage, and most gamers do not and are not upgrading with this in mind.
It is awesome though, but not an option for most of the gaming market at this stage.
even for an enthusiast it is still fairly full-on to go and get 3 monitors and a desk big enough to accommodate,
 
PlatinumPC said:
I think the real market will lay with super wide format monitors as a single solution.
Click to expand...
Wrong. Costs are prohibitive and will remain prohibitive for a long while. Future options are still at least 5 years away.
The problem is that they are just too dear at ths stage/prototypes.
Click to expand...
Even when they are out of prototype stage and in the hands of consumers, the bulk of the display panel market will still be single screens. Ultra wide displays are and will remain a niche within the niche of pc enthusiasts market.
I don' t think the average enthusiast or gamer will go for 3 monitors as great as it may be (like TriFire/Tri-SLI
Click to expand...
You thought wrong. Many are already using them. 3 or 5 monitor setups offer unprecedented utility due to the flexibility of the modular nature of the setup. Once ultra thin bezel panels show up, the main gripe of those who simply can't grasp the possibilities of the technology will be gone.
Mark my words, the future gaming displays will be single more wrap around and extended like past prototypes.
Click to expand...
Modular setups with multiple screens will be the future. The low cost of entry and flexibility of configurations it offers will never be matched by any single display solution.

Edit: Also the "paradigm shift" the OP mentions already happened 3 years ago. You all can thank Matrox for that. The real leap AMD brought to the table is delivering the experience with usable performance and low cost of entry.
 
I was one of the "omg the bezels" guys. Then I played some games experiencing eyefinity first hand.

Don't know if it is just me, but I still find the bezels extremely annoying... bezel-less it would rock, but until then no eyefinity for me.
 
§kynet;1034944785 said:
I really really hope Nvidia will not pull some crap and make their version of Eyefinity akin to PhysX. Are we going to see sponsored titles only work with Nvidia hardware using multiple monitors? I don't see how they could restrict the resolution, but hey this is Nvidia here they love to play the "quality control" card as justification for locking out features.

I have not seen Eyefinity in action, and honestly at first I thought it was a useless gimmick. But the more I read about it etc. the more I become interested in it.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

But I'm talking more along the lines of how the games function. I think Nvidia will have their version function differently thus causing games to be viewed differently on ATI hardware.

What would also be great is if ATI or Nvidia can obtain the software that calibrates the game across three monitors. The game would look perfectly aligned without the bezels breaking up the picture. That would be an improvement. Not some silly Physx or 3D vision.
 
PlatinumPC said:
the fact remains though it's still a niche thing at this stage, and most gamers do not and are not upgrading with this in mind.
It is awesome though, but not an option for most of the gaming market at this stage.
even for an enthusiast it is still fairly full-on to go and get 3 monitors and a desk big enough to accommodate,
Click to expand...

Exactly. And it's great advertising for AMD. But what percentage of [H]ard forum followers have 3 monitors set up? 5%? 3%? Probably less. Whatever it is, it's not very high and this is an enthusiasts forum. The price point for a 3 monitor system that will run the latest games on high settings has got to drop a LOT for this to become a standard even in this (geeky game-addicted hardware-junky forum) niche. A lot of us would love it, but wont be able to justify the expense.
 
PlatinumPC said:
the fact remains though it's still a niche thing at this stage, and most gamers do not and are not upgrading with this in mind.
It is awesome though, but not an option for most of the gaming market at this stage.
even for an enthusiast it is still fairly full-on to go and get 3 monitors and a desk big enough to accommodate,
Click to expand...

Eyefinity is just as much a niche thing as having a 24" monitor was earlier. Today, having a 24" screen isn't a big deal and don't cost much.

1x 24" IPS screen (Like HP LP2475 or Dell U2410) costs more then 3x 24" TN screens (Like Benq V2410 LED) in Norway. Eyefinity capabilities have gone mainstream, since they are on mainstream cards without need of dedicated TH2G hardware anymore.

You can't call anyone enthusiast and at the same time they don't buy hardware because of desksize. Enthusiasts buy triplehead stands for 3 screens on current desk or build it out/buy new desk.

I don't believe that gamers that upgrade don't consider Eyefinity if they know about it. Something that adds that much to games, is definitely worthy of consideration among gamers.

Sorry PlatinumPC, but I don't buy any of your arguments.

Some might be scared to invest in Eyefinity thinking that they might not like it, while others don't have a clue of what it brings in immersion, so they think it might not be a big deal. Considering that people go from 30" to 3x 24" and don't look back should say something about what it gives.
 
Sorry but I don't buy your argument that this is going to be a huge thing. Most people are not going to spend the money on 3 monitors, nor do most have the desk space for it. Hell I don't have the desk space for it. Unless I got three very tiny monitors my desk, which is a normal L shaped computer desk, doesn't have space for 3 monitors in front of me.

It's a neat technology, don't get me wrong, but I think it will be very firmly a high end niche thing. Only a small subset of people are willing to spend the money and space to get that kind of thing. Of those people, not everyone will be willing to because they'd rather have a better monitor.

That's the camp I'm in. I could get a new desk I suppose and have the space for it, but I'm not going to. Reason is that while I could afford 3 cheap monitors, since I do have a fairly large budget for computer stuff, I could not afford 3 good monitors. Thus I'll stick with 1 good monitor instead.
 
I'll probably outgrow gaming before it becomes commonplace. Only have another few months of gaming in my mind tops before the already limited benefits become too negligible.
 
Kowan said:
Once they get CF working on 5870/5850s in Eyefinity, bezel management and smaller bezel monitors, I expect even those not sure about it would consider upgrading.
Click to expand...

Eyefinity will be even more niche than multi-GPU are now...
 
Sycraft said:
Sorry but I don't buy your argument that this is going to be a huge thing. Most people are not going to spend the money on 3 monitors, nor do most have the desk space for it.
Click to expand...

This is the desk space needed for 3 screens (even less if you use a TH stand). I don't think people will have problems finding space for something this sweet! :
1258641801aQK1Y4Egmj_1_13_l.jpg


Most screens bought today are TN's which is the cheapest tech. Cost vs. benifits are really good here when buying 2 extra screens for a sweet Eyefinity setup.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
You only wish that because its not Nfinity :p
Click to expand...

Eyefinity, nFinity, SLI, crossfire...small niches, dosn't matter what brand you look at.

+90% of all people will run 1 GPU on 1 monitor, you are welcome to prove otherwise :p
 
Atech said:
Eyefinity, nFinity, SLI, crossfire...small niches, dosn't matter what brand you look at.

+90% of all people will run 1 GPU on 1 monitor, you are welcome to prove otherwise :p
Click to expand...

Not 100% because they want to run just one monitor, but because they don't have the money to buy all the needed hardware.
 
Atech said:
Eyefinity, nFinity, SLI, crossfire...small niches, dosn't matter what brand you look at.

+90% of all people will run 1 GPU on 1 monitor, you are welcome to prove otherwise :p
Click to expand...

By these standards, gaming itself is a niche. Most computer products are bought for production purposes. This is why Intel has over 50% dominance of the GPU market and most GPU chips sold are not gaming related. So, we can expand it a bit and say that Eyefinity, nFinity, SLI, Crossfire, midrange, high-end, PhysX, 3d Vision and gaming itself is a niche. ;)

Within the enthusiasts, I believe that there will be a much larger adoption of multi-monitor gaming then what it ever was due to Eyefinity. Eyefinity brings the capabilities mainstream.

Your only dislike about it is probably that its not nFinity though :p I mean, look how you praise GPU accelerated PhysX and its hardly used anywhere.

Seriously though, Eyefinity has been an eyeopener for many. I see that the adoption to triplehead has increased very rapidly after the release of Eyefinity. Its also one of the things that adds most immersion to current games IMO. Brings new life to games you already have bought. :)
 
Last edited:
MisterSparkle said:
I'll probably outgrow gaming before it becomes commonplace. Only have another few months of gaming in my mind tops before the already limited benefits become too negligible.
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly sure what this means. If gaming isn't fun for you, don't do it. Don't convince yourself to game for "another few months" just to fit some strange cost-benefit analysis you're doing in your head.

On Topic:
Me personally, I have a relatively cheap TN panel, and as soon as they get crossfire working with Eyefinity I will be buying 2 more, and it will end up costing hundreds less than 1 2560x1600 IPS panel. Sure the colors and viewing angles aren't the best, but the size and resolution is so appealing to me.
Will it ever take off for the mainstream of even this niche market? Probably not.
Does that make me personally want to use it any less? Definitely not.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
This is the desk space needed for 3 screens (even less if you use a TH stand). I don't think people will have problems finding space for something this sweet! :
Click to expand...

That is a huge desk. While such things do exist they are not the norm. You rarely see computer desks with that kind of space. I'd venture to day the vast majority of people don't have desks wit the room and thus would need to purchase a bigger desk. There's also the issue of room in the house. Not everyone is willing to spend lots of space on a large desk in their house.

Most screens bought today are TN's which is the cheapest tech. Cost vs. benifits are really good here when buying 2 extra screens for a sweet Eyefinity setup.
Click to expand...

Most cheap screens are TN. However, when you buy 3 TN screens, you have entered in to expensive screen territory. What I mean is 3 24" TNs will run you like $900. For that price, you can get yourself a nice 26" IPS panel. You can very nearly get a professional monitor with hardware calibration and such for that matter.

So that is the market you are talking about. The people who can only afford cheap monitors, they aren't going to do it. If $300 is a lot for a monitor to you, and it is for some people, you aren't going to spend $900 on them. If $900 is in your range, well then that means a single good monitor is in your range. Some people may be interested in that. They don't want cheap monitors they want good ones. However just because they can afford a good monitor doesn't mean they can afford 3. Being able to afford $1000 for a display is real different from being able to afford $3000 for displays.

As such only a small number of people will be willing to afford it, and of those, not all will want to because they'd rather have a high quality monitor.

I understand that you enjoy it, and that's great. However you need to understand that not everyone is going to care. It is something that costs a lot of money and takes a lot of space relative to a single monitor. That makes it a rather niche product.

Sorry but I just don't see this as being the "paradigm" to which games are headed. I'm betting single screen will still be what the vast majority of people use.

I'd liken it to high end audio. I have a very high end audio setup with my computer. Because of that I get an amazingly realistic soundstage, bass that goes down to the stuff you can only feel and so on. It provides an awesome experience in my opinion, and was well worth the money. However I recognize that few people are going to want to spend the money and the hassle to do that. My setup is not the new paradigm for sound, even though it is awesome and most people would probably enjoy it.

I mean look at your picture. The guy there, despite having space and 3 $500 monitors, has some crap little stereo PC speakers. They aren't even positioned properly, they are just laying there under the screens. Though he is interested in immerse video, he clearly couldn't care less about immerse audio.

Thus I think it'll be much the same thing. Some people will care about it, but most won't because it is expensive and a pain.
 
I bought a Samsung 22", and then a couple of months later I bought the Dell wfp2408 24".I was going to sell the Samsung to re-coup some of the cost, but tried out the two side by side and decided to keep the 22" :D
Now the point is, if I wanted to go Eyefiniti (much as I would like to) it would mean getting an ATI 5870, and a 3rd monitor.

Then there's a problem.............side by side, the Dells display is much better than the Samsung, but fine for everyday use, and I use the Dell for gaming.
To go Eyefiniti I would have to then get 2 more Dells, because it would annoy me to have screens with differing display qualities, and different screen sizes.

This is just my view from someone who is only 'thinking' about it, but the expense of another 2 Dells is roughly about £800 (inc P&P), then another £300+ for the gfx card, and probably a new desk for them to fit on, as I don't have a long desk like in the pic, just an ordinary 'L' shaped one.

This is starting to sound a bit pricey....:D

Just my idle thoughts to get this new tech...:)
 
SeegsElite said:
Not 100% because they want to run just one monitor, but because they don't have the money to buy all the needed hardware.
Click to expand...

Wrong, I have plenty of money but have no desire to run 3 monitors when I'm only going to be looking at the main one regardless. IMO is great technology, but niche and a waste of money if you ask me.

In a few years, we will see threads asking why Eyefinity never took off. The simple answer is, outside of a few enthusiasts, nobody cared.
 
I don't think I could sell my 30" SIPS for 3 24" TN panels :/ 3 24" SIPS panels maybe. but that could get costly fast
 
Eyefinity does not interest me. It would take the thinnest bezels to even interest me, then you get the extreme cost, and the fact that all driver issues aren't worked out. Thats not to say you can't enjoy it if you have it, but the cost to me is just too extreme.
 
Do you know of any companies working on monitors with no or very little bezel?..im not a tech so I dont know if it's possible but it would be a big seller dont ya think.
 
Direfox said:
Exactly. And it's great advertising for AMD. But what percentage of [H]ard forum followers have 3 monitors set up? 5%? 3%? Probably less. Whatever it is, it's not very high and this is an enthusiasts forum. The price point for a 3 monitor system that will run the latest games on high settings has got to drop a LOT for this to become a standard even in this (geeky game-addicted hardware-junky forum) niche. A lot of us would love it, but wont be able to justify the expense.
Click to expand...

What percentage of gamers get into the whole SLI/Crossfire arena? 1%? 0.5%? But that's enough to gain traction with both graphics vendors. SLI/Crossfire is well known among enthusiasts, and yet it doesn't enhance the gaming experience nearly as well as triple-head-to-go or Eyefinity or whatever Nvidia's version (hopefully) offers.

MultiGPU gets you maybe another level of AA or a boost on the one game (Crysis), but most games don't need it. Eyefinity benefits all games. The enhancement it provides for all games is an order of magnitude higher than multiGPU.
 
Sycraft said:
Sorry but I don't buy your argument that this is going to be a huge thing. Most people are not going to spend the money on 3 monitors, nor do most have the desk space for it. Hell I don't have the desk space for it. Unless I got three very tiny monitors my desk, which is a normal L shaped computer desk, doesn't have space for 3 monitors in front of me.
Click to expand...

This is the same argument that was made against multi-GPU cards. Who in their right mind will get more than one $300-$400 card, SLI/Crossfire them, and need a 700-1000 watt power supply? Well, enough people apparently to gain good advertising efforts from both graphics vendors and their OEMs. Multi-GPU card setups pale in comparison to the benefits achieved through Eyefinity. Multi-GPU *and* Eyefinity would be best, but between the two competing for my dollar, Eyefinity FTW hands down.
 
Atech said:
Eyefinity, nFinity, SLI, crossfire...small niches, dosn't matter what brand you look at.

+90% of all people will run 1 GPU on 1 monitor, you are welcome to prove otherwise :p
Click to expand...

10% of the PC gaming market is huge! :eek:
 
Sycraft said:
That is a huge desk. While such things do exist they are not the norm. You rarely see computer desks with that kind of space. I'd venture to day the vast majority of people don't have desks wit the room and thus would need to purchase a bigger desk. There's also the issue of room in the house. Not everyone is willing to spend lots of space on a large desk in their house.

Most cheap screens are TN. However, when you buy 3 TN screens, you have entered in to expensive screen territory. What I mean is 3 24" TNs will run you like $900. For that price, you can get yourself a nice 26" IPS panel. You can very nearly get a professional monitor with hardware calibration and such for that matter.
Click to expand...

I got my Eyefinity desk from Ikea. $150. :D

If you're paying $300 each for 24" TN panels, you're nuts! I got three 23" TN's (good quality Samsung 2343BWX 2048x1152 resolution) for $220 each. Or if you're going for size, get the 25.5" ASUS TN panels for $280 each.
 
I think you are confused. I am not saying that this isn't something people will use. Clearly people are using it. I am saying this is not the new gaming paradigm. This is not the Next Big Thing(tm) that is going to take off and have everyone switch over. It is going to be a niche product, just like SLI/Crossifre.

A few people will get it and enjoy it. Most people will give it a miss.
 
Sycraft said:
That is a huge desk. While such things do exist they are not the norm. You rarely see computer desks with that kind of space. I'd venture to day the vast majority of people don't have desks wit the room and thus would need to purchase a bigger desk. There's also the issue of room in the house. Not everyone is willing to spend lots of space on a large desk in their house.
Click to expand...

Perhaps in USA. I have a desk at home which is equalent (its black glass with crome, so an open solution with shelves instead of drawers) to have drawers on both sides. Can accomedate 3 screens just fine. Not so uncommon here to have desks with places for drawers. Those desks are sufficiant.

Pictures was from the [H] eyefinity event btw. Forgot to link to source. :)

Most cheap screens are TN. However, when you buy 3 TN screens, you have entered in to expensive screen territory. What I mean is 3 24" TNs will run you like $900. For that price, you can get yourself a nice 26" IPS panel. You can very nearly get a professional monitor with hardware calibration and such for that matter.
Click to expand...

3 24" TN's would cost $570 according to newegg today (Gateway FHD2401) with free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824113019

I have a 26" IPS screen with calibrator (NEC 2690WUXi + Spectraview 2), so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of buying good screens. However, even I am considering to buy 3 TN screens just for the Eyefinity experience. If the Samsung thin bezel comes out in TN, I might buy those just for gaming sake.

Eyefinity brings that much to the gaming pleasure, so the choice of having Eyefinity isn't that hard. :cool:
 
alxnet2003 said:
10% of the PC gaming market is huge! :eek:
Click to expand...

I was being generous for the sake of the argument
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

Code: 
NVIDIA SLI (2 GPUs) 
[B]2.04%[/B] 
[IMG]http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/hws_stats_details_hr.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/trans.gif[/IMG]
ATI Crossfire (2 GPUs) 
[B]0.21%[/B] 
[IMG]http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/hws_stats_details_hr.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/trans.gif[/IMG]
NVIDIA SLI (4 GPUs) 
[B]0.04%[/B] 
[IMG]http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/hws_stats_details_hr.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/trans.gif[/IMG]
NVIDIA SLI (3 GPUs) 
[B]0.02%[/B] 
[IMG]http://cdn.store.steampowered.com/public/images/hws_stats_details_hr.gif[/IMG]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top