Who's at fault?

U

UltraVioletDream

Gawd
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Sep 27, 2007
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Hypothetically speaking(lol), I sold a video card to some "noob" with an aftermarket cooler, after a couple weeks, he messages me and then says that it is fried and wants his money back, he did message me a couple times before about it artifacting, now I have a pretty good guesstimate of what happened, the VGA cooler's fragile fins got bent during the shipping process and caused the fan to get stuck, thus causing the video card to overheat during intense gaming, because I personally had that problem when I received the card from someone. Now the thing is after he had fried the card he told me that he had been running it for the whole week, and when he started to get artifacts, he just rebooted and didn't bother checking about the card, and as soon as he finds out it artifacts, he PM's me, and I tell him my past troubles and how to fix it, as soon as I send out the possible solution, he tries it and it doesn't work out, and then immediately after I realize that he might be as noob as I was when I got the card and didn't know which socket to plug the fan into (into the motherboard, not the card itself), so I send out another PM to tell him he should try that too, then he proceeds to freak out and tells me that the card is dead since he's been running it even after it's been artifacting a lot, and wants his money back. What should I have done "hypothetically speaking" is it right to deny him the refund since a) not my fault he doesn't know how to use google to find solutions b) he continued to run card under the artifacts, hoping it would get better c) he didn't buy shipping insurance, and so if rough handling bent the fins and he didn't notice the fan wasn't spinning, it's his fault, right? Please comment on what you guys think is the right way to resolve this problem, as I may have been wrong, hypothetically speaking.
 
Remember, this post is "the world according to Alex", but, if you ask me, both of you.

You shouldn't have sold a card with aftermarket cooling installed. Sell them separately, and ship the card in it's original condition, if someone wants to buy both together they can do that.

He shouldn't have bought something he didn't know how to handle. He should have also checked that it was completely working 100% fine right after receiving.

IMO, best way to go is RMA to manufacturer.
 
Well since it happened to you, you should have probably shipped it better and made sure it wasn't going to happen to your card

The [h] consensus is buyer pays insurance

and just RMA dat hoe and move on.
 
I would think most people would check the temp on the card via software or some such. Especially with artifacts being a known result of heat issues. I had an ATI card in the past that would overheat if it got a little dusty because it's stock cooling just plain sucked and aftermarket was the only way to take care of the problem.

If the seller knew this card had similar problems in the past and didn't mention them up front then perhaps the seller could be at fault somewhat. But overall I think if the card had been in working condition for some time after having it's cooling fins straightened....I think the buyer probably got in over his head buying something he didn't know how to deal with.

Maybe attempt to get him an RMA on the card, but Im not sure how much of a stickler they are about aftermarket cooling these days...since you have to "break" the warranty to remove the stock cooler. If it's out of the warranty period, then I'll assume he was aware of this when he bought it and should have taken more care to not keep running the card until it burnt up.
 
BaronBamboo said:
Well since it happened to you, you should have probably shipped it better and made sure it wasn't going to happen to your card

The [h] consensus is buyer pays insurance

and just RMA dat hoe and move on.
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Speaking as a user, and not as a Mod, I'd agree with this. You already knew this was prone to happen in shipping, you should have prepared better. You skimped on packaging, you paid for it. If the card arrived intact enough to boot into Windows, Insurance would have denied you the claim regardless. Remember, they aren't computer people there- if all the "square thingies" (RAM chips) and "electrical stuff" (capacitors) are still attached, they delivered it in adequate condition.

Not sure if I agree with the ethics of RMA'ing in this case, but that's not a discussion for this sub-Forum.
 
UltraVioletDream said:
Hypothetically speaking(lol), I sold a video card to some "noob" with an aftermarket cooler, after a couple weeks, he messages me and then says that it is fried and wants his money back, he did message me a couple times before about it artifacting, now I have a pretty good guesstimate of what happened, the VGA cooler's fragile fins got bent during the shipping process and caused the fan to get stuck, thus causing the video card to overheat during intense gaming, because I personally had that problem when I received the card from someone. Now the thing is after he had fried the card he told me that he had been running it for the whole week, and when he started to get artifacts, he just rebooted and didn't bother checking about the card, and as soon as he finds out it artifacts, he PM's me, and I tell him my past troubles and how to fix it, as soon as I send out the possible solution, he tries it and it doesn't work out, and then immediately after I realize that he might be as noob as I was when I got the card and didn't know which socket to plug the fan into (into the motherboard, not the card itself), so I send out another PM to tell him he should try that too, then he proceeds to freak out and tells me that the card is dead since he's been running it even after it's been artifacting a lot, and wants his money back. What should I have done "hypothetically speaking" is it right to deny him the refund since a) not my fault he doesn't know how to use google to find solutions b) he continued to run card under the artifacts, hoping it would get better c) he didn't buy shipping insurance, and so if rough handling bent the fins and he didn't notice the fan wasn't spinning, it's his fault, right? Please comment on what you guys think is the right way to resolve this problem, as I may have been wrong, hypothetically speaking.
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I have a few questions:

Did you state fully upfront before he paid for it that:

  • You were not the original owner
  • There was an aftermarket cooler on it
  • You had recieved it damaged
  • You had artifacting because of shipping damage to the cooler, and you repaired it
  • To inspect the card (cooler) before installation since you knew it was easily damaged?

Also, how was your packing? How was he or us to know it wasn't an inadaquate packing job on a part you knew to be fragile that did it? Or that when you tried it and it artifacted on you that it didn't damage the card some, and it just gave up the ghost on him when it otherwise would have lasted longer?

Thing is, a seller here should feel the obligation to disclose ALL facts and history about what he sells, not just answer a question honestly. I've come across a few sellers that while they won't outright lie, they don't volunteer revelent info and hope you don't ask them. This seems like you to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

As far as the buyer being a "noob" that shouldn't have anything to do with it unless he damages the item through ignorance or stupidity, which a gather is what your asserting. But if you had told him BEFORE he bought it that you had to repair shipping damage to the cooler, and to check it out and repair if necessary before installation, would he have STILL done the exact same thing he did and damaged the card?

I'm thinking no.

depending on the answers to the questions I asked, it looks to me that you should refund the guy, take the card back, and consider it a lesson learned. If you don't, you'd go on a lot of peeps DNT lists, even if you're not banned or officially labeled a troll.:eek:
 
hmm, this is a tough one

just taking the info provided and not assuming anything else...

legally, the buyer would assume the loss

ethically, the seller should refund the money

my 2 cents
 
It worked when he got it, Beyond that, Maintenance of the card should be up to the buyer.. If you told him about all issues prior to purchase then he just has bad luck..

If worse comes to worse.. Split a refund.. He returns defective card and you give half the money back..
 
wait a second, so he didn't even PLUG IN THE FAN? This sounds entirely like user error. Unless the card WAS NOT in a working state when you sent him the card, this is entirely his fault.

I think most people that trade here concedes the fact that things are sold as is, and full disclosure is strongly encouraged, but at the same time, no one here is a retail entity, that can provide a warranty on used items. Most things are sold as is... If the card was 100% functional when you sent it to him, and he damaged it during the course of HIS use, he just bought himself a paper weight...
 
kingk said:
wait a second, so he didn't even PLUG IN THE FAN? This sounds entirely like user error. Unless the card WAS NOT in a working state when you sent him the card, this is entirely his fault.

I think most people that trade here concedes the fact that things are sold as is, and full disclosure is strongly encouraged, but at the same time, no one here is a retail entity, that can provide a warranty on used items. Most things are sold as is... If the card was 100% functional when you sent it to him, and he damaged it during the course of HIS use, he just bought himself a paper weight...
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matrix563 said:
its a no no to not plug in the fault. fault = buyer
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From the wording, it sounds like he plugged the fan into the motherboard instead of the video card. If that's the case, it'll still work, but the card won't control the speed anymore.
 
mavalpha said:
From the wording, it sounds like he plugged the fan into the motherboard instead of the video card. If that's the case, it'll still work, but the card won't control the speed anymore.
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well thats pretty standard for a after market cooler. the chiller cooler i had for the 4850 visiontek i had was the same way, it plugged into a 3 pin connect. never got over 50's loaded. i think when plugged into the mobo the fan will spin at whatever max speed it has, which is still not very loud as its an after market cooler (i.e. the chilla didn't sound louder when i gamed than the silent x600 pci-e i had in the computer before it).

from the original post i'm not sure what the seller was stating, but if the buyer didnt' even plug the fan in, thats a definite no no.

also it may not have been damaged in shipment.

i had a artic cooling gpu cooler on a x800xt once. i didn't realize it but i had the comp on for a week before i noticed the gpu temp was at 98c-100c. a sata cable was pushed against the fan by accident. good thing i didnt play any games :eek: :p lol

once i moved the cable out of the way the fan started back up and the temps dropped to 40c idle, a big difference :D. i didn't notice any artifacting however.

not sure if thats what happened, as the buyer was hypothesizing a guess, but i suppose thats possible, vs damage in shipping.

for what its worth i once sold a psu and 6 weeks later the buyer stated it was DOA. haha that usually means only one thing. they did something to break it :D. tough luck there buddy. i think the same applies in this case
 
Evil Juggalo said:
It worked when he got it, Beyond that, Maintenance of the card should be up to the buyer.. If you told him about all issues prior to purchase then he just has bad luck..

If worse comes to worse.. Split a refund.. He returns defective card and you give half the money back..
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If you read OP's op then it's pretty clear this didn't happen, hence my inclination for refund:eek:
 
topcat989 said:
If you read OP's op then it's pretty clear this didn't happen, hence my inclination for refund:eek:
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well the op doesn't state that it artifacted for him and he seems to have noticed the bent fins in the fan and fixed it prior to installation, just what i got from reading it.

user error is user error. you learn from experience, i did, i make sure no cables are near any of the fans from now on ;). well any obstructions for that matter. i'm sure the buyer will hopefully learn from this experience as i did, too bad that the card died however :(
 
matrix563 said:
well the op doesn't state that it artifacted for him and he seems to have noticed the bent fins in the fan and fixed it prior to installation, just what i got from reading it......
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UltraVioletDream said:
......the VGA cooler's fragile fins got bent during the shipping process and caused the fan to get stuck, thus causing the video card to overheat during intense gaming, because I personally had that problem when I received the card from someone.........
Click to expand...

you sure about that?
 
Refund the money minus shipping, Chuck it as a lesson earned and leave appropriate heat ware since items and money was exchanged.
 
My 2 cents:

1) What was time span between OP dealing with bent fins/artifacting issue and card being sold?
I mean if OP ran the card for a year (or more) with no issues, why would you have to "disclose" upfront that the card had artifact issues? Technically, it didn't...
However, if OP's incident was only months ago, then he definitely should have mentioned it.
If there was in fact a long time span, he may not have even remembered the brief incident, right?

2) When I buy second hand hardware, the first thing I do is a thorough visual inspection, then a thorough performance test. If the device has a non-OEM HSF (and sometimes even if it IS OEM), I pull the HSF, clean surfaces, and apply new thermal grease. That's just a measure of precaution.
If the fan was obstructed, that should have been identified before power was ever applied... and at the very least before the case was closed up.

3) Even a non-tech should realize that at first sign of trouble, ESPECIALLY with new hardware, it's time to check things out thoroughly. To continuously reboot and force the hardware to run until failure demonstrates total ignorance.

--BTW, I was THAT ignorant once. OK, maybe twice. :p
--In both instances, I verbally abused myself for a good hour or more... and accepted the fact that I was a temporary dumb-ass.

4) I agree that RMA seems unethical in this situation... UNLESS it is specifically disclosed that failure could be related to non-OEM cooling and potential over-temp. Then let the mfg. decide whether to take the card for evaluation.

If it were me in the buyers position, I'd kick myself.. then have my wife kick me... and then start looking for another card.
 
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