Please don't out think yourself. Just say "price" then (obviously). It's also irrelevant when you are looking at the price tag. Products have been sold many times at a loss, just to create market share.
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4870x2 reviews beating gtx280 sli
- Thread starter BigCactus
- Start date
Please don't out think yourself. Just say "price" then (obviously). It's also irrelevant when you are looking at the price tag. Products have been sold many times at a loss, just to create market share.
Last time I checked the QX9770 and the QX9775 cost about the same. Right around $1500 each.
Isn't everything pretty much bottlenecked by the gpu...I couldn't justify spending that much on a processor...can you say intel price gouging...I wish AMD would get on the ball and give intel some stiffer competition on the cpu front.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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It all depends on the game, resolution and GPU power on hand: http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=609&pageid=5
Intel does have enough competition. Otherwise they wouldn't offer a ton of CPUs at VERY reasonable prices. Your post is akin to getting mad that there are BMW's and Ferrari's out there just because you can't afford one. As a general rule I don't buy Extreme Edition CPUs. I don't think that what they offer is worth the price of admission. If you feel the same way don't buy them. It is as simple as that.
+1
I won't buy a ferrari, but I am glad they are avaliable. Same with Tri-SLI setups. Because if I make a millon dollars a year, I would like to own one.
I actually had a QX6850 with my old 8800 ultra sli set up and after switching to a Q6600 G0 for quite some time, the performance difference was non-existent...only advantage was being able to change the multi a lot higher.
Until I see some kind of evidence that a $1500 extreme processor will result in better gaming performance than an Oc'd Q6600 G0...I'd never pay that much. I'm not mad, it just doesn't make sense to buy an extreme cpu unless you really want some ridiculously high synthetic benchmarks. If that's your thing then fine. But if your a gamer an e8400 or Q6600 G0 oc'd is all you need right now.
And to stay on topic in this thread, from my gaming experience thus far with 8.54 drivers...the 4870x2's performance is a lot better then [H]'s preview. I'm definitely seeing a higher minimum fps in cod4 on the map they benched. I think the 1GB frame buffer on this card is truly showing it's muscle especially when the AA levels are up. I can say from my own experience, that a single 4870x2 truly does beat a gtx280 sli. Prices for the GTX280 need to come down to at about $250-$300 to compete. I'm just glad I was able to get my 4870x2 for 469 at best buy...roughly the same price of a gtx280
And to stay on topic in this thread, from my gaming experience thus far with 8.54 drivers...the 4870x2's performance is a lot better then [H]'s preview. I'm definitely seeing a higher minimum fps in cod4 on the map they benched. I think the 1GB frame buffer on this card is truly showing it's muscle especially when the AA levels are up. I can say from my own experience, that a single 4870x2 truly does beat a gtx280 sli. Prices for the GTX280 need to come down to at about $250-$300 to compete. I'm just glad I was able to get my 4870x2 for 469 at best buy...roughly the same price of a gtx280
Well when I had the 4870 X2 was in my other machine I noticed better performance than what the preview showed as well. However the single card only beats GTX 280 SLI in Age of Conan. In Call of Duty I saw excellent performance out of the 4870 X2 but the performance still was no where near matching Geforce GTX 280 SLI results. However SLI is at a point of diminishing returns in that game as one card, either a 4870 X2 or a Geforce GTX 280 run it smooth enough at the highest settings that telling the difference without benchmarks would be difficult. Though as a single card the 4870 X2 is at a minimum 30% faster than a single Geforce GTX 280. That's certainly nothing to scoff at.
Compare the Geforce GTX 280 SLI scores vs. the ATI Radeon 4870 X2.
Geforce GTX 280 OC SLI
CoD4 Results: 2560x1600 4xAA, 16xAF, V-Sync Disabled
Minimum 66
Maximum 303
Average 136.346
HiS ATI Radeon 4870 X2
CoD4 Results: 2560x1600 4xAA, 16xAF, V-Sync Disabled
Minimum 45
Maximum 173
Average 83.018
As you can see here I ended up with a healthy minimum FPS increase, nearly double the maximum frame rate and the average went up by about an 80% increase over the 4870 X2 scores. What's nice about Call of Duty is that it scales well with 2 and 3-Way SLI. I saw nearly a perfect 100% increase between single and dual Geforce GTX 280 performance.
I find this to be a very important result between the two cards. Honestly, I don't really care if the max is 70 or 10,000 it's not going to matter on my 60hz display. But the GTX280 SLI never dropping under 60 fps while the 4870x2 drops to 45 is a big deal. While 45 is by far playable (and I know lots of people who wish they could run that at that res and settings
) those drops under 60 can really just remove that "smoothness" that we all strive for.I find this to be a very important result between the two cards. Honestly, I don't really care if the max is 70 or 10,000 it's not going to matter on my 60hz display. But the GTX280 SLI never dropping under 60 fps while the 4870x2 drops to 45 is a big deal. While 45 is by far playable (and I know lots of people who wish they could run that at that res and settings
Well check this out:
HiS ATI Radeon 4870 X2 Catalyst 8.8 Release (Windows XP 32bit)
CoD4 Results: 2560x1600 8xAA (Adaptive), 16xAF, V-Sync Disabled
Minimum 42
Maximum 164
Average 82.471
The ATI Radeon is capable of giving you 8xAA for about the same price and performance hit as 4xAA. The ATI setup is an AA monster. It's really quite amazing. The card is also capable of higher AA modes than the Geforce cards are. Maybe NVIDIA will address this in their "Big Bang II" drivers but right now they don't have it.
did u end up fixing those problems you had before?
No. I got those results from a different machine.
ah, and haha, i've asked you what are the specs of your current pc and the different machine u tested like 3x's and you never told me. Gonna tell me this time ?
ah, and haha, i've asked you what are the specs of your current pc and the different machine u tested like 3x's and you never told me. Gonna tell me this time ?
I've posted the specs of the PC that worked. It's in the thread somewhere.
The scores that were actually good came off of a machine running Windows XP Professional SP3. Catalyst 8.8 Release drivers for Windows XP/32bit were used to get those results. For Windows Vista x64 I'm using the 8.8 beta (8.540) drivers.
I really haven't seen too many gtx280 sli benches out there. Hardware Canucks reports a minimum of 54 fps on their bench with the 4870x2 at 2560x1600 w/ 4xaa/16xaf. The GTX280 OC version can only get a minimum of 27 fps. I don't see how the minimum can jump from the minimum of 27fps to 66fps by adding another gtx280. If that's the case then you almost have to add another gtx280 to make cod4 playable at that resolution.
My experience was different and you are talking about just one site. I can't be certain of the validity of thier testing methods as I don't visit that site but in my tests (which weren't on all that powerful of a machine) a single Geforce GTX 280 OC got a minimum of 35FPS in Call of Duty 4 v1.7 and 66FPS minimum with a second card. Call of Duty 4 scales VERY well with SLI and always has. It's the only game that can give you close to 100% scaling with SLI. You get about 60% scaling out of 3-Way SLI which is unheard of in other games.
I'm a FPS, smoothness and AA whore. Even I find the performance offered by a single Geforce GTX 280 in Call of Duty 4 to be more than adequate and in fact quite enjoyable. I found the game experience offered by even a single Geforce GTX 280 to be more consistent and smoother overall than my 8800GTX SLI, 8800GTX 3-Way SLI, and 9800GX2 Quad-SLI configurations. Though the other configurations often provided higher maximums than the Geforce GTX 280 OC offered. The averages were more consistent and the frame rates seemed to be maintained for longer periods of time than with the SLI configurations. Although FRAPS tells me that the ATI Radeon 4870 X2 is faster than the Geforce GTX 280 in Call of Duty 4 I have a hard time telling them apart at the same resolutions. They are both more than fast enough to offer a very smooth gaming experience. The real advantage offered by the ATI cards is higher levels of AA with less of a performance hit than the NVIDIA offerings.
You have made comments about the 4870 X2 being faster than Geforce GTX 280 SLI and that is simply untrue. The only game where that theory holds water is Age of Conan in which case, even with my crippled 4870 X2 performance, the card dominates NVIDIA's offerings. That is however, just one game where this is true. We all know that the 4870 X2 rapes the Geforce GTX 280 in everything but Crysis but a single 4870 X2 doesn't beat Geforce GTX 280 SLI very often.
I've found hardware canucks to be a reputable site and usually spot on in their reviews. I don't think you are seeing the same performance I am in cod4. Maybe the game runs better on Vista. Also the 8.54 drivers are newer and you haven't dialed those in yet it seems on your system.
I think the 8.54 drivers is a monumental leap. Once you get those working I think you'll see what I'm talking about...it's very smooth. I'm seeing about a minimum of 51fps in the sniper level with heavy grass textures. But I would say 99% of the time the fps is holding at 60. I haven't tried that level at a higher oc on my processor than 3.2 though. Also I haven't even tried overclocking the 4870x2 as well. That bench you ran is with two gtx280s OC'd. You can always switch to the abit ix38...this board apparently works well with the 4870x2. I am also finally am able to run the newest official version 12 bios with it. I got this board for $140 on ebay...you could probably get the same deal, might be worth a shot.
I think the 8.54 drivers is a monumental leap. Once you get those working I think you'll see what I'm talking about...it's very smooth. I'm seeing about a minimum of 51fps in the sniper level with heavy grass textures. But I would say 99% of the time the fps is holding at 60. I haven't tried that level at a higher oc on my processor than 3.2 though. Also I haven't even tried overclocking the 4870x2 as well. That bench you ran is with two gtx280s OC'd. You can always switch to the abit ix38...this board apparently works well with the 4870x2. I am also finally am able to run the newest official version 12 bios with it. I got this board for $140 on ebay...you could probably get the same deal, might be worth a shot.
Those drivers don't work for me at all. I can get the installed fine and I've run three seperate installations of Vista x64 and tried each time with those drivers and still no go. I've got some really odd problem in regard to performance with my 4870 X2. The Geforce GTX 280 OC cards are factory overclocked cards identical to the ones in the initial Geforce GTX 280 evaulation article that the [H] published when those hit the market. The overclock on the BFG Geforce GTX OC is minimal and hardly even worth mentioning.
If DFI came out w/ a SLi board 1st, I would have probably stuck w/ my 280 and added another...
game play on a single 280 (EVGA FtW, factory overclock) was great and I never had any driver issues like I am having right now w/ ATi
here's hoping that the official 8.9's will be the "savior" of mine, Dan's, and many other's x2 experience
game play on a single 280 (EVGA FtW, factory overclock) was great and I never had any driver issues like I am having right now w/ ATi
here's hoping that the official 8.9's will be the "savior" of mine, Dan's, and many other's x2 experience
Well as far as the gtx280 goes, there have been lots of issues with that card upon release, including drivers, downclocking, and rumored defective batches and low yields, etc. Drivers were eventually remedied from what I hear. I wouldn't even consider a gtx280 now...4870x2 is essentially double the performance of a gtx280, especially when AA is cranked at insane levels. ATI really got the hardware right this time. That's what these cards are for essentially, to run at high resolutions and crank the AA ridiculously high. The only problem I'm having with the 8.54 betas is power play doesn't take affect when the system boots, but it doess after you run and exit furmark or any 3d app. Everything else as far as performance and reliability seems excellent on my end. Driver releases seem to be frequent which is a good sign.
Umm.... what the hell are you talking about?
lmao, I'm waiting for Dan to come in and make the corrections on Cactus's post
ATi should cut you a check Cactus for all the marketing you do for them
The gtx280 had downclocking issues when it was first released. A driver fix corrected it. Do you deny this
A lot of people have reported high temps on this card reaching temps at 105c on various forums...this may have to do with the rumored "bad batches" or "low yields." I did say "rumored."And yes, the 4870 series cards in general are superior to it's nvidia counterparts when AA is applied...especially the 4870x2, which is why this card isn't going to take a performance hit like the gtx280 will when the AA goes way up. Not sure why you ask, I'm pretty sure I'm using plain english.
yang88she: As for the 4870x2 power play isn't working. I have confirmed that with the 8.54 drivers...upon initial boot into windows vista, the cards are running full throttle with both GPUs at 750mhz. After running a 3d app, and exiting a 3d app...1st gpu seems to run at 507mhz, and the second gpu runs at 750mhz. So we should see better temps at idle when both gpus run at 507 at idle.
Funny, I had two Geforce GTX 280's on the week they were released and I experienced no problems what so ever. There were rumors about defective batches and poor yields. I'll give you that. Everything else you've said was an exaggeration. The 4870 X2 is double the performance of a Geforce GTX 280? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. While the GPU scaling is actually quite good the performance is only 30%-60% faster than the Geforce GTX 280 and only under very specific circumstances. You act as though the 4870 X2 can defeat a Geforce GTX 280 SLI setup in every scenario and your completely wrong on that point. It doesn't. I've got them both here and I'm not seeing it. Even with the 4870 X2 in the machine that works, it doesn't best the Geforce GTX 280 SLI setup in anything but Age of Conan. Yes the 4870 X2 offers great AA and AF and does so with far less of a performance hit (and sometimes no performance hit) when compared to the Geforce GTX 280.
In Crysis the Geforce GTX 280 is very close to the 4870 X2. The regular 4870 gets beaten badly.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUzOSwzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
You can see in Crysis the Geforce GTX 280 SLI setup manhandles a single 4870 X2.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUzMSwzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
In Call of Duty 4, you are correct. The 4870 X2 is much faster than a single Geforce GTX 280 but in your earlier post you acted as though the Geforce GTX 280 isn't enough for the game at 2560x1600 which I contradicted. My data says that the FPS never drops below 35FPS and that's more than playable. In fact that's smooth as butter the way the engine runs.
To summarize: The ATI Card loses in Crysis, wins in Age of Conan and wins again in Call of Duty 4, but it isn't double the performance of a single Geforce GTX 280 as you've said and it certainly doesn't beat Geforce GTX 280 SLI outside of Age of Conan. Ever. Look at all the performance data I've provided in the 4870 X2 threads. What your talking about simply doesn't happen.
Ask and you shall receive.
Cliffs:
1.) A single 4870 X2 is faster than a single Geforce GTX 280.
2.) A single 4870 X2 is slower than Geforce GTX 280 SLI.
3.) A single 4870 X2 is faster than Geforce GTX 280 SLI only in Age of Conan
4.) The 4870 X2 takes little to no performance hit for AA.
Funny, I had two Geforce GTX 280's on the week they were released and I experienced no problems what so ever. There were rumors about defective batches and poor yields. I'll give you that. Everything else you've said was an exaggeration. The 4870 X2 is double the performance of a Geforce GTX 280? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. While the GPU scaling is actually quite good the performance is only 30%-60% faster than the Geforce GTX 280 and only under very specific circumstances. You act as though the 4870 X2 can defeat a Geforce GTX 280 SLI setup in every scenario and your completely wrong on that point. It doesn't. I've got them both here and I'm not seeing it. Even with the 4870 X2 in the machine that works, it doesn't best the Geforce GTX 280 SLI setup in anything but Age of Conan. Yes the 4870 X2 offers great AA and AF and does so with far less of a performance hit (and sometimes no performance hit) when compared to the Geforce GTX 280.
In Crysis the Geforce GTX 280 is very close to the 4870 X2. The regular 4870 gets beaten badly.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUzOSwzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
You can see in Crysis the Geforce GTX 280 SLI setup manhandles a single 4870 X2.
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUzMSwzLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
In Call of Duty 4, you are correct. The 4870 X2 is much faster than a single Geforce GTX 280 but in your earlier post you acted as though the Geforce GTX 280 isn't enough for the game at 2560x1600 which I contradicted. My data says that the FPS never drops below 35FPS and that's more than playable. In fact that's smooth as butter the way the engine runs.
To summarize: The ATI Card loses in Crysis, wins in Age of Conan and wins again in Call of Duty 4, but it isn't double the performance of a single Geforce GTX 280 as you've said and it certainly doesn't beat Geforce GTX 280 SLI outside of Age of Conan. Ever. Look at all the performance data I've provided in the 4870 X2 threads. What your talking about simply doesn't happen.
Ask and you shall receive.
Actually there was a downclocking issue that was addressed in a later driver after the gtx280 was released. This is fact, not an exaggeration. The 105c temps are what I've just noticed from several people in these forums, and other enthusiast forums. Who knows, those could of been due to user error or inadequate case cooling....but some people definitely had defective, overheating gtx280s. If your going to tell me that the gtx280 was perfect...and no corrections were made as far as drivers go...that would be an exaggeration.
Perhaps saying that the 4870x2 doubling the performance of a gtx280 is a bit exaggerated. But since it does in a few games like Grid and age of conan, I don't think it's that far fetched. And when you really crank up the AA levels...like to 8xaa, you are going to see double the performance of a gtx280 on the 4870x2. As for Crysis, If that was the most demanding game out there...the GTX280 should be able to keep up with the 4870x2 in "less demanding games" like cod4, and grid. Something tell me that crysis might just run better on Nvidia cards...something about an nvidia sponsored game makes me a little suspicious
Ask and you shall receive.yang88she said:
Yeah, I figured Dan would come in and seperate fanboy from fact, looks like I was right.
No. This problem didn't effect everyone. It didn't effect my system. Yes the problem was there but buying a Geforce GTX 280 didn't guarantee you'd experience it. Thus you are exaggerating.
Yes, defective Geforce GTX 280's did this. I experienced this with one of mine and returned it. The second card didn't have this problem. I'm not saying anything is perfect but again you exaggerate concerning the problem. Not everyone had these issues. And as you well know the 4870 X2 has its' share of problems. You have no proof that there was a significant number of Geforce GTX 280's that had this problem compared to the number of them that didn't.
Again you are exaggerating. The 4870 X2 isn't double the performance of the Geforce GTX 280. This is especially true since a single 4870 X2 rarely beats out Geforce GTX 280 SLI. Games like Call of Duty 4 are less demanding. However the Geforce GTX 280 simply bests the 4870 X2 in Crysis either due to architectural differences that favor the way Crysis's engine works, or is a matter of select optimizations or both. I don't but the whole conspiricy theory about NVIDIA's TWIMTBP program sabotaging ATI cards when there are plenty of games that sport the TWIMTBP logos and run better on ATI hardware.
Alright, here is a thread that talks about a gtx280 downclocking fix through drivers that was posted by an evga-tech administrator on evga forums:
http://evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=480692&mpage=1&key=
I noticed you commented in that thread yang88she
http://evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=480692&mpage=1&key=
I noticed you commented in that thread yang88she
I stand corrected...when I say double the performance I really mean keeping up with or surpassing gtx280 sli. GTX280 sli does not yield double the performance of a single gtx280. My mistake.
Alright, here is a thread that talks about a gtx280 downclocking fix through drivers that was posted by an evga-tech administrator on evga forums:
http://evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=480692&mpage=1&key=
I noticed you commented in that thread yang88she
haha yeah, but I have to say I never had any issues w/ my 280, it was a beast of a card and ate everything I threw @ it....I just wanted to lengthen my personal e-p33n, by going quad fire in a SFF
I didn't see downclocking in games or overheating on any of the 4 GTX280 EVGAs I've owned.
Some did. Just as some are having trouble with their X2s and others just plug and play.
Part can be user error. Part is conflict with hardware. Part is DOA or deflective cards.
As long as you're happy with the performance of your setup, that's all the matters or should anyway.
Some did. Just as some are having trouble with their X2s and others just plug and play.
Part can be user error. Part is conflict with hardware. Part is DOA or deflective cards.
As long as you're happy with the performance of your setup, that's all the matters or should anyway.
Godmachine
[H]F Junkie
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- Messages
- 10,472
Having both owned the GTX 280 and now the 4870 X2 I can tell you that only in COD4 do I notice a sharp increase in performance. I would say that both cards are on par for the most part , one being better than the other in certain games and vice versa.
If I had to recommend one to someone I would tell them to get the GTX 280 cause its cheaper for now, I also am having microstuttering issues but that might just be something since its hard to nail down microstuttering as the sole cause of any stuttering.
Both cards in the end are a great deal and if they keep dropping the price on the 280 then I think overall its gonna end up the better deal.
If I had to recommend one to someone I would tell them to get the GTX 280 cause its cheaper for now, I also am having microstuttering issues but that might just be something since its hard to nail down microstuttering as the sole cause of any stuttering.
Both cards in the end are a great deal and if they keep dropping the price on the 280 then I think overall its gonna end up the better deal.
Well I'm going to go ahead and say that the 4870 X2 is vastly superior to the Geforce GTX 280. Now is it $100+ dollars better? Well that's up to the individual and largely I'm going to say no unless you are talking about running at 2560x1600 in which case the 4870 X2 is the best choice for a single card setup be it multi-GPU or not.
Godmachine
[H]F Junkie
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At 2560x1600 the 4870 X2 is a real beast but I have yet to be impressed at 1920x1200 (minus COD4) and while its a performer, I doubt anytime in the near future I'll have 1399 bucks to blow on a 30 inch Dell that would show off the true power of the 4870 X2.