Pounce or wait for Nehalem?

trudude said:
I am basically gonna go big this time around. I feel ALOT better about going high end with Intel/ATi than I do going SLi with everything nVidia. I went through that crap before and it was horrible. The 680i motherboards pretty much ruined my experience this past gen.

Anyways...this is how I am planning my next PC build this Fall...

Antec Twelve Hundred (watercooled version w/ 200mm rad built in)
Asus X58 R.O.G. Motherboard
Intel i7 2.93Ghz
(2) Non-Reference HD4870x2's Crossfire
Corsair 6GB DDR3 2000 2x2x2 Triple Channel Kit
Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB
CORSAIR CMPSU-1000HX 1000W PSU

Besides that stuff I will be reusing all the rest of the stuff that I have in my machine...Sharp Aquos 52" 1080p LCD HDTV, Logitech Z-Cinema Speakers & Steelsound 5H v2 Headphones, Logitech G9 Mouse, Logitech G-15 v2 Keyboard, S&S Steelpad Mousepad, (10) eSATA Seagate 500GB. I will be watercooling the new cpu and video cards on 2 separate loops. I will go Swiftech for most of the cooling, but I may be forced to use another brand for the video cards. I know that Asetek is already working on releasing a waterblock for the 4870x2, but I'd like to see another company release a nice waterblock so I have a choice. It should be extremely badass. I already have my money saved up for it. I am literally itching to make the purchase. :)
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Nice build sounds pretty much the exact same thing I have planned for this fall except for the case and water cooling.
 
Agreed, the 640gb is very impressive empirically, and from a price/performance perspective.

~S
 
EvilAlchemist said:
I would guess around $400-$500 on release date.

Go back and look at the prices of the Q6600 & Q6700.
Find where the Q6600 was $300 and then look for the Q6700 price in that time frame.

Easy way to guess at a price.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1296&Itemid=38

Give you an idea of the normal price spread
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Wish I knew how fast that particular i7 CPU will be compared to a C2Q running @ 3.4-3.8 Ghz. I would have built my new gaming rig by now but I'm worried that the i7 will be noticeably faster than current Core 2 Quads.
 
This is an interesting topic. I like the types of performance some have stated you could get out of the real low cost stuff. I was thinking of putting together an inexpensive system to play WarHammer Online and I'm thinking that E7200 mixed with an 8800GT might do the trick. I've put together a complete system build on newegg for 589 (minus OS)
 
DaddyDC650 said:
Wish I knew how fast that particular i7 CPU will be compared to a C2Q running @ 3.4-3.8 Ghz. I would have built my new gaming rig by now but I'm worried that the i7 will be noticeably faster than current Core 2 Quads.
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Well the i7 is a completely new architecture. I have been eagerly awaiting this tech since 2002-2003 roughly. That was the first time I heard about the Nehalem.
 
Just read that the X58's are gonna support SAS (Serial Attached SCSI). That means I could get one of the new badassed 15k RPM SATA SAS drives coming out. That would be quite awesome.

Edit: Also I have been reading around and the general consensus is that the i7's are going to be 45-50% faster at the same clock speeds as Penryns. These numbers are supported in many benchmarks as well as real world performance testing. In some rare cases the improvements can be as much as 80% in apps that scale well with multicore cpus.
 
trudude said:
Just read that the X58's are gonna support SAS (Serial Attached SCSI). That means I could get one of the new badassed 15k RPM SATA SAS drives coming out. That would be quite awesome.

Edit: Also I have been reading around and the general consensus is that the i7's are going to be 45-50% faster at the same clock speeds as Penryns. These numbers are supported in many benchmarks as well as real world performance testing. In some rare cases the improvements can be as much as 80% in apps that scale well with multicore cpus.
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40-50 percent faster than the current quads? Link? Sounds too good to be true.
 
DaddyDC650 said:
40-50 percent faster than the current quads? Link? Sounds too good to be true.
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http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9597/x58_nehalem_benchmark_run_at_computex/index.html

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7881.html

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3326&p=1

http://www.breakitdownblog.com/intel-nehalem-benchmarks-50-100-performance-increases/

I know of about 3-4 other sources, but this should be plenty. Needless to say I feel sorry for those who just upgraded their CPU's. These things are pretty much going to destroy the current generation high end cpu market. It is gonna be a fun Christmas this year! :)
 
trudude said:
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9597/x58_nehalem_benchmark_run_at_computex/index.html

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7881.html

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3326&p=1

http://www.breakitdownblog.com/intel-nehalem-benchmarks-50-100-performance-increases/

I know of about 3-4 other sources, but this should be plenty. Needless to say I feel sorry for those who just upgraded their CPU's. These things are pretty much going to destroy the current generation high end cpu market. It is gonna be a fun Christmas this year! :)
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Damn, I was about to purchase a nice Core 2 Quad but I should really hold off for the Core i7.
 
DaddyDC650 said:
That's 157 people out of the thousands/millions of folks that want to build a new rig.
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It's 85/15 and you want to argue sample size? The question being asked in this thread is the same and the audience is the same, so what's your point exactly? OP has a freakin' P4. A P4 folks.
 
aldamon said:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1330885

View Poll Results: Would you still buy a new LGA 775 system now?

Yes 157 84.86%
No 28 15.14%
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All I can say to that is that there are going to be quite alot of people with buyers remorse if they buy ANYTHING LGA 775 right now. Nehalem is gonna knock their socks off. Right now it would be a HUGE mistake to buy a LGA 775. I mean if you want to guarantee yourself no upgrade path whatsoever then go ahead and buy LGA 775. For me the choice is simple.
 
trudude said:
All I can say to that is that there are going to be quite alot of people with buyers remorse if they buy ANYTHING LGA 775 right now. Nehalem is gonna knock their socks off. Right now it would be a HUGE mistake to buy a LGA 775. I mean if you want to guarantee yourself no upgrade path whatsoever then go ahead and buy LGA 775.
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Like we said in the other thread, you are not guaranteed an upgrade path or overclocking (good or otherwise) on 1st-gen Nehalem. Nor are you guaranteed anything as rock-solid and cheap as Socket 775 and DDR2. Socket 775 is not a huge mistake, especially for someone with a Pentium 4, no matter how many times you type it.

trudude said:
For me the choice is simple.
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The opposite of buyers remorse is buyers justification and I see you've already started months in advance for that $1000+ purchase. Congrats. I'm glad it will help you through that 4-month (or longer) wait.
 
So i see waiting is the better, so im probably going to cancel all my orders for my new build and wait. But for nehalem, what would i need? The processor, an x58 mobo, and ddr3 ram? Also are sata drives still compatible with x58, or is it only scsi?
 
aldamon said:
Like we said in the other thread, you are not guaranteed an upgrade path or overclocking (good or otherwise) on 1st-gen Nehalem. Nor are you guaranteed anything as rock-solid and cheap as Socket 775 and DDR2. Socket 775 is not a huge mistake, especially for someone with a Pentium 4, no matter how many times you type it.



The opposite of buyers remorse is buyers justification and I see you've already started months in advance for that $1000+ purchase. Congrats. I'm glad it will help you through that 4-month (or longer) wait.
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The Nehalem will be available at the end of September last time I checked. That is a little over one month away. If you have already been using a Core 2 Duo like me since 2006 then the choice to move to the Nehalem should be easy. I have been ready to upgrade for the past 6 months and I have known about the existence of the Nehalem since 2003. The best quad core you can get right now seems like a waste when the Nehalem is so close in my opinion. Also I don't need to convince myself that purchasing a Nehalem is a good move or not. I simply look at the information available about the Nehalem and compare it to what I am able to achieve on my current system. I then assess whether or not I think my current system will be able to handle the apps and games I want to be able to run in the next 6-12 months and I put the two together. I want to be able to run all my day to day apps, but I also want to be able to run all the games for the next 12 months the very best I possibly can. Are you trying to tell me that you think it will be 4 months from now before I will be able to make my Nehalem purchase?

The part about not being able to guarantee if I would be able to achieve stability on the first-gen Nehalems is completely ludicrous cause there are PLENTY of people who still run rock solid first-gen Core 2 Duo machines. I have no reason to doubt that Intel can deliver a stable Nehalem platform. nVidia on the other hand I DO have to worry about.
 
trudude said:
Are you trying to tell me that you think it will be 4 months from now before I will be able to make my Nehalem purchase?
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Nehalem will supposedly be launched in September and available in October, but are you just going to buy the first X58 motherboard and DDR3 you see? It will take at least two months for Nehalem to be available in quantity and some more time to make an educated decision about an appropriate motherboard and RAM. Of course, feel free to guess, pre-order everything at top dollar and see how it goes. This may be in your best interest, and you might consider it a good decision, but OP has a P4, not a C2D. Can you separate your situations and offer objective advice?

trudude said:
The part about not being able to guarantee if I would be able to achieve stability on the first-gen Nehalems is completely ludicrous cause there are PLENTY of people who still run rock solid first-gen Core 2 Duo machines. I have no reason to doubt that Intel can deliver a stable Nehalem platform.
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Ludicrous? You understand this is a new architecture, right? The memory controller is on the chip. There are most likely going to be problems with launch motherboards and maybe RAM compatibility. Your upgrade path is going to be limited by changes Intel makes over time. Count on this if you buy something immediately at launch. This is nothing new.

Also, I'm glad you saw people with rock-solid S775 systems at launch. I saw plenty reports of unstable systems on the boards. My Gigabyte DS3 Rev. 1.0 in particular had a lot of problems at launch. So many, in fact, that I believe the board underwent 4 official revisions after I bought it.
 
Here's the thing. A new Nahalem CPU alone will cost me $400-$500 wen it comes out. Right now I can put together MB, 2GB DDR2, C2Q, and GPU for about that price with will get me off of my P4 and hold me over fine for 18 mos or so until Nahalem and X58 prices become reasonable.

People that argue you have to buy the new architecture as soon as it comes out end up wasting a lot of money.
 
aldamon said:
Nehalem will supposedly be launched in September and available in October, but are you just going to buy the first X58 motherboard and DDR3 you see? It will take at least two months for Nehalem to be available in quantity and some more time to make an educated decision about an appropriate motherboard and RAM. Of course, feel free to guess, pre-order everything at top dollar and see how it goes. This may be in your best interest, and you might consider it a good decision, but OP has a P4, not a C2D. Can you separate your situations and offer objective advise?



Ludicrous? You understand this is a new architecture, right? The memory controller is on the chip. There are most likely going to be problems with launch motherboards and maybe RAM compatibility. Your upgrade path is going to be limited by changes Intel makes over time. Count on this if you buy something immediately at launch. This is nothing new.

Also, I'm glad you saw people with rock-solid S775 systems at launch. I saw plenty reports of unstable systems on the boards. My Gigabyte DS3 Rev. 1.0 in particular had a lot of problems at launch. So many, in fact, that I believe the board underwent 4 official revisions after I bought it.
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err, your making me want to wait till december-ish when i was supoosed to order all ym parts today. well you made a strong argument imo, so i guess ill just my 4870 x2 on my C2D for 3 months and save up more money for Nehalem. Waiting = Buying the Best at its Best!
 
brent4president said:
haha

ok everyone calm down :D
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We can't throw rocks? But but, what about your sig? :p

generalv said:
Here's the thing. A new Nahalem CPU alone will cost me $400-$500 wen it comes out. Right now I can put together MB, 2GB DDR2, C2Q, and GPU for about that price with will get me off of my P4 and hold me over fine for 18 mos or so until Nahalem and X58 prices become reasonable.

People that argue you have to buy the new architecture as soon as it comes out end up wasting a lot of money.
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Very reasonable plan for someone with a P4, just like the OP.
 
aldamon said:
Nehalem will supposedly be launched in September and available in October, but are you just going to buy the first X58 motherboard and DDR3 you see? It will take at least two months for Nehalem to be available in quantity and some more time to make an educated decision about an appropriate motherboard and RAM. Of course, feel free to guess, pre-order everything at top dollar and see how it goes. This may be in your best interest, and you might consider it a good decision, but OP has a P4, not a C2D. Can you separate your situations and offer objective advice?
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I am not just gonna go out and preorder anything. I will of course wait for a few reviews and whatnot. You'd have to know my personal situation more to understand my reasoning for wanting to upgrade. I just don't feel like explaining myself cause it just annoys me to type that much. As far as the OP having a P4 I would say that if he can wait this long what is 2 more months...and even then he won't HAVE to upgrade to a Nehalem. He could just get a LGA 775 and it will be even cheaper cause the new tech is out.

aldamon said:
Ludicrous? You understand this is a new architecture, right? The memory controller is on the chip. There are most likely going to be problems with launch motherboards and maybe RAM compatibility. Your upgrade path is going to be limited by changes Intel makes over time. Count on this if you buy something immediately at launch. This is nothing new.

Also, I'm glad you saw people with rock-solid S775 systems at launch. I saw plenty reports of unstable systems on the boards. My Gigabyte DS3 Rev. 1.0 in particular had a lot of problems at launch. So many, in fact, that I believe the board underwent 4 official revisions after I bought it.
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I understand fully that this is a new technology and things can go wrong, but I am not stupid and I have the ability to test before I buy. I am also able to access the Internet and see the results of other enthusiasts. I am not worried in other words. What kind of limitations have users experienced due to issues with LGA 775? I can only think of a few and that is just cause nVidia sucks at making chipsets.
 
aldamon said:
It's 85/15 and you want to argue sample size? The question being asked in this thread is the same and the audience is the same, so what's your point exactly? OP has a freakin' P4. A P4 folks.
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i have a fucking P4 too mate and i rather get a nehalem then your old tech core 2. made that mistake once, not this time mate. i will wait 2-3 months after nehalem has been released and then make my purchase.

is it IMPOSSIBLE for intel to actually release new tech without any MAJOR issues/bugs? note the word MAJOR here people. intel dont design stuff like microsoft does(ie the 360 with its magical 3rrod shit)

i say if the OP wants to get a core 2 now then fair enough. nehalem is months away and i would certainly wait for nehalem. core 2 is over two years old now, time to move on and embrass the new fresh stuff lads. let core 2 go and get I7 :)
 
jonneymendoza said:
i have a fucking P4 too mate and i rather get a nehalem then your old tech core 2. made that mistake once, not this time mate. i will wait 2-3 months after nehalem has been released and then make my purchase.

is it IMPOSSIBLE for intel to actually release new tech without any MAJOR issues/bugs? note the word MAJOR here people. intel dont design stuff like microsoft does(ie the 360 with its magical 3rrod shit)

i say if the OP wants to get a core 2 now then fair enough. nehalem is months away and i would certainly wait for nehalem. core 2 is over two years old now, time to move on and embrass the new fresh stuff lads. let core 2 go and get I7 :)
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I don't see how it's a big mistake to purchase a Q6600 for around 180 dollars instead of buying one of the first but expensive i7 CPU's. A Q6600 should be able to handle any job very nicely for at least another year or two. By then, you'll probably be able to pick up an i7 that overclocks to 4Ghz for under 300 dollars. I'm still on my socket 939 X2 CPU and it handles all of my games nicely. I'm able to encode/decode movies well enough to justify the 40 dollars I spent on it. In fact, I don't even need to build myself a new rig but since I have cash to burn, I'll build one anyways. What I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, it's best to purchase kick @ss CPU's that have been out for awhile for cheap instead of paying a ton more for the latest and greatest.
 
trudude said:
I am not just gonna go out and preorder anything. I will of course wait for a few reviews and whatnot. You'd have to know my personal situation more to understand my reasoning for wanting to upgrade. I just don't feel like explaining myself cause it just annoys me to type that much. As far as the OP having a P4 I would say that if he can wait this long what is 2 more months...and even then he won't HAVE to upgrade to a Nehalem. He could just get a LGA 775 and it will be even cheaper cause the new tech is out.
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It's not just a few more months. As many others have said, and as 85% in the other poll agree, it's a few more months AND probably at least twice the cost. I'm tired of going in circles with you. All I see in your posts is I I I I I I I I.... Then you're smug and say people who buy S775 now will have "buyers remorse" or, even worse, that you "feel sorry" for anyone that buys now. It's obnoxious.

You also say that 775 parts will drop when Nehalem is released, but I'd be willing to bet that the drop in 775 will be far less than the drop Nehalem will see a few months after release, or even a few weeks after the gouging stops. In fact, instead of discounting 775 further, Intel could reduce the supply of 775 parts, driving the price up next year.

trudude said:
I understand fully that this is a new technology and things can go wrong, but I am not stupid and I have the ability to test before I buy. I am also able to access the Internet and see the results of other enthusiasts. I am not worried in other words. What kind of limitations have users experienced due to issues with LGA 775? I can only think of a few and that is just cause nVidia sucks at making chipsets.
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We're not your research staff. If you want to put your head in the sand about platform launches, go ahead.

DaddyDC650 said:
I don't see how it's a big mistake to purchase a Q6600 for around 180 dollars instead of buying one of the first but expensive i7 CPU's. A Q6600 should be able to handle any job very nicely for at least another year or two. By then, you'll probably be able to pick up an i7 that overclocks to 4Ghz for under 300 dollars. I'm still on my socket 939 X2 CPU and it handles all of my games nicely. I'm able to encode/decode movies well enough to justify the 40 dollars I spent on it. In fact, I don't even need to build myself a new rig but since I have cash to burn, I'll build one anyways. What I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, it's best to purchase kick @ss CPU's that have been out for awhile for cheap instead of paying a ton more for the latest and greatest.
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Thank you. A P4 to a Q6600 is a huge upgrade and dirt cheap.
 
aldamon said:
It's not just a few more months. As many others have said, and as 85% in the other poll agree, it's a few more months AND probably at least twice the cost. I'm tired of going in circles with you. All I see in your posts is I I I I I I I I.... Then you're smug and say people who buy S775 now will have "buyers remorse" or, even worse, that you "feel sorry" for anyone that buys now. It's obnoxious.

You also say that 775 parts will drop when Nehalem is released, but I'd be willing to bet that the drop in 775 will be far less than the drop Nehalem will see a few months after release, or even a few weeks after the gouging stops. In fact, instead of discounting 775 further, Intel could reduce the supply of 775 parts, driving the price up next year.



We're not your research staff. If you want to put your head in the sand about platform launches, go ahead.



Thank you. A P4 to a Q6600 is a huge upgrade and dirt cheap.
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Wow just stop. You are just being contrary just for the sake of being contrary now. You are speculating WAY too much. I am going by the information given. The LGA 775 stuff will drop extremely low once the Nehalem hits. The best information we have if that the Nehalem will be out at the end of September possibly early October and there will be a $300-350 2.66Ghz part, $500-550 2.93Ghz part, and an extreme $999 3.2Ghz part. There is also evidence that the CPU's will perform anywhere from 33-80% faster at the same clocks as current quads depending on the app. That is about all we know about these CPU's. Intel is obviously close to release or else they wouldn't be talking about the new i7 moniker.

Yes a P4 to a Q6600 is a great upgrade. I never said it wasn't. Noone did. I simply said that if they were able to make it this far without upgrading they can stand to wait a month or so longer. The Nehalem will probably release on time. There is no reason I have seen to think otherwise unless you can provide me one. Like the guy said earlier. An educated decision would be to wait a little bit and size up the Nehalem. If you don't need it then buy something cheaper.

Buyers remorse will likely be an issue for some buying any current gen system. I don't see how you can claim that someone that bought an older gen system so close to a next gen release could still be happy about their purchase when they could have waited just a month or so more and have a system that is up to 80% faster for a couple hundred dollars more (perhaps). Hell if you spent money on a high end system now you could have easily bought a mid-range Nehalem machine in a month.

To take some kind of magical poll on some forum (even if it is this one) seriously is just damn stupid. Do you honestly think you know more than the news sites who hear this from REAL insiders? No don't answer that one cause you probably think you are an insider.
 
Wow.. what do you do that would actually require the CPU power of anything more than C2Q? Maybe I'm just not enough of a "power-user" .. but I ran a 2.8GHz dual core A64 system until about a week ago and was never dissatisfied with it's performance - I ordered a bunch of used C2D stuff, but only because it only cost like $100 total to upgrade my Opty 165, 2GB DDR, DFI nF4, 8800GT 512MB to E8400, 4GB DDR2, Gigabyte P35, and 8800GTS 512MB (did it for the quieter cooler, really). Add an extra $85 for the WD 640GB and I did that for about $185, after selling old stuff.

Fully intend to make this setup last 3 years, just like I did with the A64
 
repoman0 said:
Wow.. what do you do that would actually require the CPU power of anything more than C2Q? Maybe I'm just not enough of a "power-user" .. but I ran a 2.8GHz dual core A64 system until about a week ago and was never dissatisfied with it's performance - I ordered a bunch of used C2D stuff, but only because it only cost like $100 total to upgrade my Opty 165, 2GB DDR, DFI nF4, 8800GT 512MB to E8400, 4GB DDR2, Gigabyte P35, and 8800GTS 512MB (did it for the quieter cooler, really). Add an extra $85 for the WD 640GB and I did that for about $185, after selling old stuff.

Fully intend to make this setup last 3 years, just like I did with the A64
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You did a great job meeting your needs. No one really needs a Nehalem. I for one just want a really nice high end system. I had a very bad experience with the 680i's from nVidia and I feel like I wasted a ton of my time screwing around with their unstable crap. If the Nehalem platforms turn out to be awesome I will go ahead and join the party. Otherwise I will weigh my options.
 
The thing is, the Core 2 architecture is still very fast. My E6300, which is a 2-year-old model now, is still plenty fast overclocked to 3.2 GHz. Heck, it's still way faster than what most people in the general public have even though it's so old. Right now, I just can't justify the immense cost to dump my current system (CPU/motherboard/memory) for pennies on the dollar and upgrade to the latest and greatest Bloomfield.

Plus, even if I were to get a Nehalem, I'd be looking at Lynnfield, not Bloomfield. That's not launching for a while. Perhaps I might even wait for the 32nm shrink. It still seems like Core 2 has a lot of life left and I'm in no rush to drop $700 on a new CPU, motherboard and DDR3 memory.
 
aldamon said:
We finally agree, at least when it comes to the OP.
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Look man we have different opinions about this. I honestly see no reason to argue about this anymore. There are much more important things to talk about like for instance this whole Russian-Georgian invasion.
 
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