4870 Street Date July 8? + New Ruby Demo Screens

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berzerker

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For those that don't read the ATI forum...

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R700 / competes with GT200/9800GX2 / ETA: 8 weeks
RV770 XT / ATI Radeon HD 4870 / competes with 9800GTX / release: July 8, 2006 (U.S. time)
RV770 PRO / ATI Radeon HD 4850 / competes with 8800GT/8800GTS/9600GT / June 25, 2007 (U.S. time)
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The above chart from the article shows the 4780 release date as July 8. The article makes it sound like a June 25th soft-launch and NDA lifting only for the 4780. Maybe this is why we haven't seen anyone getting cards early.

Well, at least we should see all the numbers next week.

Here's a video of the Ruby scene. Thanks to bill d.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DigitalMedia/AMD_Ruby_S04.swf

Here's a short video (low quality) of this street scene clip in motion from Computex. (Just cars and building in the video, no Ruby.)

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Fudzilla.com/ATI4800SeriesTechDemo/photo#5208079896638449394


EDIT: An update on the "street date." Fud seems to be saying there should be a few 4870s out for sale next week on July 25th. Good luck getting one for MSRP.

Radeon 4870 available in limited quantities at launch next week?

RV770XT-based GDDR5 cards are barely going to make it for the 25th launch. We've learned from various sources that these cards will reach retailers literally just days, if not hours, before the launch.

Radeon HD 4870 cards are being produced as we speak, and we were told that there shouldn't be many shortages after the launch date.

You can be sure that you will get quite a lot of Radeon HD 4850 as of next Tuesday, but it might be tough to buy HD 4870 for the time being.
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whoa, so ATI IS going to compete in the high end...this should be interesting
 
mk_ln said:
whoa, so ATI IS going to compete in the high end...this should be interesting
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Yep, that's what they intend to do with the R700, and it should be quite competitive. Too bad it isn't ready for release this month.
 
APOLLO said:
Yep, that's what they intend to do with the R700, and it should be quite competitive. Too bad it isn't ready for release this month.
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fuck man!the gtx280 is way to much money to upgrade over my 8800gts 640.hurry up ati and give me a better and cheaper card then gtx280
 
stonewalker said:
fuck man!the gtx280 is way to much money to upgrade over my 8800gts 640.hurry up ati and give me a better and cheaper card then gtx280
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I know, and unfortunately it's looking like August unless I read the rumors wrong (hopefully). :(
 
Dang I was about to press the buy button on newegg + 12months no payments for the GTX-280 to handle my Apple 30", but used to be a big ATI fan before I bought my awesome 8800GTX, but now I am wondering if the 4870x2 will be just the same power as a GTX-280 or maybe like 25% or more faster ? Why so far away in August ?
 
The 4850 is "competing" with 9600GT and 8800GT/S at a $200 price point? Either I hope they're kidding for their own sake performance-wise or actual market pricing drops to make it competitive.
 
Trombe said:
The 4850 is "competing" with 9600GT and 8800GT/S at a $200 price point? Either I hope they're kidding for their own sake performance-wise or actual market pricing drops to make it competitive.
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Considering it should be better than either card, we'll see what happens.
 
Trombe said:
The 4850 is "competing" with 9600GT and 8800GT/S at a $200 price point? Either I hope they're kidding for their own sake performance-wise or actual market pricing drops to make it competitive.
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There have been rumors that the 4870 was originally aimed at a $229 price bracket, but they jacked up the prices when the chip performance turned out better than expected. By that thinking, the 4850 was probably originally targeted at the $150 price range (9600GT pricing with near 9800GTX performance). According to other reports ATI has plenty of room to drop the prices on both cards and stay in profit.

A quick price drop to $179 or lower (especially with rebates) seems likely for the 4850.
 
This sucks. 4870 is not even meant to go up against G200. I was hoping it would be close to 260. Now I definitely have to go the 260 route for Crysis.
 
Zorachus said:
Dang I was about to press the buy button on newegg + 12months no payments for the GTX-280 to handle my Apple 30", but used to be a big ATI fan before I bought my awesome 8800GTX, but now I am wondering if the 4870x2 will be just the same power as a GTX-280 or maybe like 25% or more faster ? Why so far away in August ?
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I guess it's not yet ready for prime time and AFAIK it's still just a rumor, but it's looking more likely as the month progresses. Honestly, if you have decided to buy soon I think your best option is the GTX-280 or alternatively, two 4000-series ATI cards providing your board supports CF. Apparently, two 4850s can match the GTX-280 for a lot less money. Two 4870s should exceed it in many situations, again based on rumors.
 
DaNotoriousDOM said:
This sucks. 4870 is not even meant to go up against G200. I was hoping it would be close to 260. Now I definitely have to go the 260 route for Crysis.
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All indications, early 4850 numbers, hints at 4870 performance and today's GTX reviews seem to make it likely that the 4870 will trade blows with the GTX 260. It will probably be close to the GTX 260 in a lot of cases and maybe even win in a few games where ATI is favored. Not to mention overclocking.

So far, the 4850 seems to be testing near the 9800GTX, which is one level higher than that slide indicates. You only have to extrapolate to see where the 4870 will end up.

Zorachus said:
now I am wondering if the 4870x2 will be just the same power as a GTX-280 or maybe like 25% or more faster ?
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We'll have a good idea of how the 4870X2 will perform when we see the 4870 Crossfire results, hopefully next week when the single card reviews come out.
 
Live blog from the event - Not much more useful info, but a few interesting comments about the presentation and their "Cinema 2.0" theme.

Next up ... Ruby. A fantastic demo.

Then? Cinema 2.0 demo Ruby, developed by otoy. The demo was fantastic. Cinema 2.0 rendering? Jawdropping. I for one have never seen anything like it.

Raytracing. Compression. Totally interactive scenes with an unprecedented level of realism. That is the goal of Cinema 2.0.

...

Lets just say that ATi fans ... graphics fans ... have much to be excited about.
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This is an older report from a few weeks ago at Computex, where the video clip was taken:

COMPUTEX 08: ATI does 770 'Ruby' demo

The next ATI demo
This was followed by what was touted as AMD's next demo, tied in with their upcoming Cinema 2.0 initiative. Instead of Ruby jumping out of planes, they showed a street scene. It looked quite average until they said it was all CG and rendered in real time. Then it became impressive. Look for more on this in a few weeks.
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Dammit, I gotta wait 3 more weeks? Will they at least lift NDA on the 4870 next week?
 
DaNotoriousDOM said:
This sucks. 4870 is not even meant to go up against G200. I was hoping it would be close to 260. Now I definitely have to go the 260 route for Crysis.
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AMD says its 4850 device at about 110 W and $199 will deliver about 75 percent of the performance of Nvidia's high-end GTX280 which costs $649 and dissipates 236W.
Two of the AMD parts on a board will hit graphics benchmarks about 30 percent higher than the Nvidia device, the AMD spokesman added.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208404063&pgno=1
 
Anyone else fairly certain that the "TBD" SKU is the 4870 X2?

I will likely be getting a 4850 once the NDA lifts, or when the people who've gotten them from buy.com get them if their experience is really compelling. The only thing that could stop me is a $150 or greater price drop on the GTX 280 or unexpectedly awesome performance from the 4870.

Those slides seem to put the 4870x2 at $500+, so that's out the window for me. No way I can justify that kind of money when one 4850 will likely make me very happy for a long time, and a second will be more than enough to hold me for a while.

Finally, to those disappointed about how AMD says the 4870 is competing with the 9800 GTX, remember that their idea of "competition" is beating the 9800 GTX by ~40%, as they pointed out in the slides that were leaked earlier. Hopefully that will be enough to trade blows with the 260.
 
This is the first time since the 9800 PRO that I owned back in the day when it was king...

I am saying it... "I think I may be looking forward to what ATi has up their sleeve."
 
If that really was rendered in real time, that's pretty impressive seeing it live..

morfinx:
4890 huh? I've heard whispers of them not sure about using the 4870x2 name and suggesting a 4890.... probably why the official SKU is still TBD

Interesting though, that might truly suggest the multi GPU is still on and is different from the X2 version..

Back in January, Kyle wrote here

R700 will be a multiple GPU architecture. Will not be CrossFire on a card. The architecture is being designed from the ground up to be "multiple GPU." Engineers at ATI have also told me specifically that AA is "fixed."

Hopefully this will clear up some of the rumors. As you know, we bat about 1000 when it comes to this kind of information. If I tell you more now, I will have to kill you.
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The EETimes article on the launch of the GTX260 and the press event they had on the 48xx's (today it seems) says (emphasis mine):

Instead it will launch a part aimed at the graphics mainstream with a proprietary interconnect that links two chips on a board to deliver top performance.
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Also, at the Extreme Tech GTX280 review, editor Jason Cross (who was reliable wrt information posted on the B3D ATI thread, and certainly goes to these events) said (again, emphasis mine):

We don't know what shape that will take, only that it will combine two GPUs on a card in a substantially different fashion than the Radeon HD 3870 X2, and that ATI tells us that with not-yet-fully optimized drivers it already scores over 6,000 in 3DMark Vantage on Extreme settings. We've heard promises of future greatness before, and reserve judgment until we get the cards in our own hands to run our own tests.
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Interesting times ahead of us! Can't wait to see what we have on the horizon
 
What would be the difference between 'multi-GPU' and a dual chip X2 a la 3870X2? Isn't it only semantics? Unless we're speaking of multi-core on a single die vs dual separate chips, but I don't imagine AMD has that in store for this year, certainly not this summer.
 
We've seen how well dual die Intel Quad-cores have competed with AMD's native offering. Might just be the opposite going on here - nVidia's monolithic design being upstaged by ATi's dual-die design.
 
APOLLO said:
What would be the difference between 'multi-GPU' and a dual chip X2 a la 3870X2? Isn't it only semantics? Unless we're speaking of multi-core on a single die vs dual separate chips, but I don't imagine AMD has that in store for this year, certainly not this summer.
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Multi-GPU on a single die a'la Yorkfield / Kentsfield is MCM but that's not what's being talked about

Of course it is multi-GPU in that it is more than one GPU on the card, and what likely is going on is that R700 will have 2 x RV770 chips on the card.

However, where people aren't sure about is whether it is going to be like the 3870X2 where the GPU's used on-board CrossFire (basically a CrossFire bridge exists on the card) where the PLX PCI-E chip was used to communicate between the two chips.

However, from the quotes I gave, i'm getting the feeling that the R700 was designed from the get-go to have internal components that allow for the communication between the GPUs so that they aren't "just" CrossFire on the card. As with SLI, CrossFire has a lot of issues such as being unable to share memory, memory bandwidth, and so on. If R700 has built in communication between chips so that they function more like one single GPU than CrossFire on a card, then they might overcome some of the difficulties but that would also be a huge change in GPU design we haven't seen yet.

That's why I'm stoked to see what's coming out because I have no idea if the card is going to be a great performer or not, I just want to see shiny new technology :D
 
4850 here I come.

Really fell in love with ATi the past few months, not sure why.
 
unleashed said:
AMD says its 4850 device at about 110 W and $199 will deliver about 75 percent of the performance of Nvidia's high-end GTX280 which costs $649 and dissipates 236W.
Two of the AMD parts on a board will hit graphics benchmarks about 30 percent higher than the Nvidia device, the AMD spokesman added.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208404063&pgno=1
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You know...there are reviews of the GTX 200 GPUs already ?
The 236w TDP is the max possible power it can consume, but in reality, it doesn't even consume 200w in real world applications.
 
Silus said:
You know...there are reviews of the GTX 200 GPUs already ?
The 236w TDP is the max possible power it can consume, but in reality, it doesn't even consume 200w in real world applications.
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As if that doesn't apply to every other GPU, including the nVidia fanboys' beloved 2900XT. :eek:
 
Lost! said:
As if that doesn't apply to every other GPU, including the nVidia fanboys' beloved 2900XT. :eek:
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Are you implying that the HD 2900 XT now performed good enough to justify its power consumption ?!

LOL

You do know that power consumption needs to be put into context with performance right ? Well, maybe you don't...
 
Derfman said:
This is the first time since the 9800 PRO that I owned back in the day when it was king...

I am saying it... "I think I may be looking forward to what ATi has up their sleeve."
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iirc their next series of cards, x8xx, was as least as good as the nvidia 68xx cards, and ati had their pcie cards out before nvidia. i look back at my old 3dmark scores and the x850 xt i had just crapped all over the 6800 gt i had before it (both cards priced about the same, the 6800 was 8x agp.) but since then (fall 2004) ati hasnt been competitive.
 
Silus said:
Are you implying that the HD 2900 XT now performed good enough to justify its power consumption ?!

LOL

You do know that power consumption needs to be put into context with performance right ? Well, maybe you don't...
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I was implying that samely, the 4850 won't reach its peak TDP in 90+% of its cases.

But obviously you've made it clear cut that you WANT to get ignored by us by twitcing, derailing, jumping at semantics, provoking... and it seems that GT200, not ATI users, aggravated you more since you've always been angry and callous. Just more this time around. :rolleyes:
 
July 8? I really hope not. ATI is dumb to wait that long and they'll lose my sale. I'll pick up a 260.
 
Lost! said:
I was implying that samely, the 4850 won't reach its peak TDP in 90+% of its cases.

But obviously you've made it clear cut that you WANT to get ignored by us by twitcing, derailing, jumping at semantics, provoking... and it seems that GT200, not ATI users, aggravated you more since you've always been angry and callous. Just more this time around. :rolleyes:
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And who even mentioned the HD 4850 ? The point was that the 236w TDP is still being used against GTX 200 GPUs, when it's more than clear, now that reviews are out, that that number is not what the card really consumes in real-world applications, as of course, is the case with almost all cards. So you're arguing for the sake of arguing as is the typical forum troll behavior...

Also, given your join date and 99% of your posts i.e. flag waving, I can't help but find it amusing what you just said. Go troll somewhere else please.
 
vanilla_guerilla said:
iirc their next series of cards, x8xx, was as least as good as the nvidia 68xx cards, and ati had their pcie cards out before nvidia. i look back at my old 3dmark scores and the x850 xt i had just crapped all over the 6800 gt i had before it (both cards priced about the same, the 6800 was 8x agp.) but since then (fall 2004) ati hasnt been competitive.
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Agreed, the x800 series rocked. x700 was a dud, and that was really where they had no match, vs the 6600gt. I had an x850 crossfire setup and it was pretty badass, and a x800gto^2 that surpassed xt speeds and kept me running til i finally needed sm3.0
 
sekira05 said:
July 8? I really hope not. ATI is dumb to wait that long and they'll lose my sale. I'll pick up a 260.
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At the very least we will get reviews before then. Seems to me its worth waiting a week and get a complete picture of the competition. Nothing sucks more than dropping the big bucks on a new component only to find yourself obsolete one week later.
 
ZerazaX said:
However, from the quotes I gave, i'm getting the feeling that the R700 was designed from the get-go to have internal components that allow for the communication between the GPUs so that they aren't "just" CrossFire on the card. As with SLI, CrossFire has a lot of issues such as being unable to share memory, memory bandwidth, and so on. If R700 has built in communication between chips so that they function more like one single GPU than CrossFire on a card, then they might overcome some of the difficulties but that would also be a huge change in GPU design we haven't seen yet.

That's why I'm stoked to see what's coming out because I have no idea if the card is going to be a great performer or not, I just want to see shiny new technology :D
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I am loathe to bring up this name given their history, but knowing the tech, and the situation, I have to throw out the possibility that ATI is using some of the same Rambus tech that Sony used in the ps3 for chip to chip communication. Given that AMD entered into a full technology license with rambus about 18mos ago, and given the techs capability when it comes to chip to chip communications, it would make sense that this was where ATI was going with a "entirely new" bus design for two gpus on a card. If so, combined with ddr5, were talking about a blazing fast bus with shared memory access for two of these 770 gpus - from the point of view of the pci bus and the cpu, it would be dealing with just one, very fast, chip, not two, eliminating many of the pitfalls of CF/SLI. Add in to that that the rambus tech allows for cheaper pcb design (fewer traces, unequal lengths allowed) and this "4970" or whatever we're calling it could be a real game changer.
 
That tech demo is crazy cool man. I am thinking ATi might have it this time around. I'd love to get away from the green camp this gen.
 
Say maybe now I can pick up that Cosmos S case with the red fan.... damn it hurry ATI!!!!
 
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