Toshiba Ends Format War

Snowdog said:
The tide is shifting very fast. Check out the #1 movie selling at Amazon right now:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/ref=pd_dp_ts_d_1

Surprisingly, the best selling movie is actually a Blu Ray disk. 3 of the top 10 are Blu Ray, 7 are DVD. Impressive performance for a format no one wants because DVD is good enough.
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It's nice to see Blu-Ray picking up. It really is a high quality standard. Movies look incredible. I know they cost $10 more, and I hate that as much as the next guy, but when I watch a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD it's so much clearer. I have a good eye for such things, and to me the true hi def formats appear much better even than a good upconvert. If you have an HDTV the video really IS $10 better. I'm sorry for being the devil's advocate here, but I still think that nothing is wrong with getting what you pay for.
 
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Snowdog said:
The tide is shifting very fast. Check out the #1 movie selling at Amazon right now:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/dvd/ref=pd_dp_ts_d_1

Surprisingly, the best selling movie is actually a Blu Ray disk. 3 of the top 10 are Blu Ray, 7 are DVD. Impressive performance for a format no one wants because DVD is good enough.
Click to expand...

I am Legend BR is 18.95 at Amazon and the std version of that same movie is 19.95 at CC and BB.

Sony is hardly responsible for certain retailers screwing themselves into the ground.

Amazon and a few other dealers email me deals about twice a week, why would I want to buy my software at CC and BB?
 
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SirKronan said:
See what I mean? At $19 a brand new bluray movie is hardly a bad deal. Why NOT go hi def for such a small difference in price?
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If they all were released at $19, then it wouldnt be a big deal..

You know, media companies tell you that you are not buying the media, only a liscense to watch/hear the content.. yet they jack the price up for the content in different formats..
 
TheBluePill said:
If they all were released at $19, then it wouldnt be a big deal..

You know, media companies tell you that you are not buying the media, only a liscense to watch/hear the content.. yet they jack the price up for the content in different formats..
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Yeah. There are lots of little "quirks" the intellectual property business has. Anyone know how overall sales are comparing right now between Blu-ray, DVD, and digital downloads?
 
I only see 2 out of the Top 10 as Blu-Ray, but how many times do you see a new release in Blu-Ray under $25?
 
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TheBluePill said:
Looks like the defacto $29 tag has dropped a few dollars in recent weeks.
That is good. Closign the Gap with DVD is a positive thing, but they will have to compete on the main title pricing and the flurry of sub $15 value DVDs as well..
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Give it time. It happened to DVD. It'll happen to Blu-Ray. In fact, it's happening a lot faster to Blu-Ray already than it did to DVD. And Blu-Ray is so much better quality. Anyone who says it's not much better than upconvert either has a crappy TV, crappy eyesight, or is smoking crappy you know what...
 
SirKronan said:
Give it time. It happened to DVD. It'll happen to Blu-Ray. In fact, it's happening a lot faster to Blu-Ray already than it did to DVD. And Blu-Ray is so much better quality. Anyone who says it's not much better than upconvert either has a crappy TV, crappy eyesight, or is smoking crappy you know what...
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Actually, I think it is "too high" a quality for some films.. (not the format's falut, but of the film makers).. Take some of the Blockbuster movies that use extensive CGI. Watching Pirates of the Carribian 2 in the Theater or on DVD, when the Cracken is tearing up the Ship, the Tentacles look very real and threatening. on A Blu-Ray and a good 1080p Set, the resolution is so high, you can easily tell that the Craken is CG! Same with a bucnch of other movies like the Matrix (Though HDDVD).

I think that really takes away from the experience.. its like all of these great movies' special effects are like "The Last Star Fighter".
 
TheBluePill said:
Actually, I think it is "too high" a quality for some films.. (not the format's falut, but of the film makers).. Take some of the Blockbuster movies that use extensive CGI. Watching Pirates of the Carribian 2 in the Theater or on DVD, when the Cracken is tearing up the Ship, the Tentacles look very real and threatening. on A Blu-Ray and a good 1080p Set, the resolution is so high, you can easily tell that the Craken is CG! Same with a bucnch of other movies like the Matrix (Though HDDVD).

I think that really takes away from the experience.. its like all of these great movies' special effects are like "The Last Star Fighter".
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But some of the animated films look stunning, like chicken little or Cars in Blu-Ray. When they originally render it in perfect uncompressed 1920x1080 with progressive scan ... WOW. Just hard to beat that. You're right about some movies, though.
 
I would say the CGI comes down to what they wanted to spend. If a movie has only a few CGI scenes you might spend a bit, but why worry about having a perfect CGI scene? Now all these animation movies they are going to drop some money on having top quality, but hopefully with high definition becoming a standard we will see better quality in all fields, CGI, live action, etc.
 
I watched POTC 2 on a 26" TV and it still looked way too CGI for me. You can always get those movies that you think would benefit from lower quality on DVD. Personally I look forward to having better than theater level of quality at home.
 
Snowdog said:
I watched POTC 2 on a 26" TV and it still looked way too CGI for me. You can always get those movies that you think would benefit from lower quality on DVD. Personally I look forward to having better than theater level of quality at home.
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I sux when your TV is "too good" to watch... :confused:
 
I kinda feel bad for the Wal-Mart crowd that jumped on the Christmas HD DVD Player specials. Seemed like a steal at the time...
 
TheBluePill said:
Actually, I think it is "too high" a quality for some films.. (not the format's falut, but of the film makers).. Take some of the Blockbuster movies that use extensive CGI. Watching Pirates of the Carribian 2 in the Theater or on DVD, when the Cracken is tearing up the Ship, the Tentacles look very real and threatening. on A Blu-Ray and a good 1080p Set, the resolution is so high, you can easily tell that the Craken is CG! Same with a bucnch of other movies like the Matrix (Though HDDVD).

I think that really takes away from the experience.. its like all of these great movies' special effects are like "The Last Star Fighter".
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While there is absolutely a difference in how studios produce movies don’t forget an awful lot depends on the quality of HD set you are using.

When properly set up my BR player requires major adjustments on my Elite Plasma. Cable HD requires a whole different set of settings. Thankfully the set remembers up to 6 different settings per input.

One movie I can’t fix is “Volcano”. Its one layer of effect on top of another to the point of being a joke, but that is the studio’s fault not the format.:)
 
BillR said:
I am Legend BR is 18.95 at Amazon and the std version of that same movie is 19.95 at CC and BB.

Sony is hardly responsible for certain retailers screwing themselves into the ground.

Amazon and a few other dealers email me deals about twice a week, why would I want to buy my software at CC and BB?
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Actually, the version amazon sells has the alternate ending with it. The same alternate ending for a DVD version is $21.95, and is two discs. So the BR version is actually a few dollars cheaper, and has all the data on one disc. Who wants to get up after the movie, change discs out, to see the alternate ending? Not I, ruins the mood. WIth BR, its all on one disc.

The anti-Sony crowd is funny. Firstly, its not Sony that makes these prices. Secondly, BR versions of movies rarely cost more than $5 more than the standard DVD version. You dont have any ground to stand on, and your theory that Sony would jack up the prices (they cant even if they wanted to) is idiotic. And already proved wrong. (not posted at you BillR, in general to the ignorant)
 
eh, the alternate ending for "I Am Legend" was horrible, just watched it last night.
 
fallguy said:
The anti-Sony crowd is funny. Firstly, its not Sony that makes these prices. Secondly, BR versions of movies rarely cost more than $5 more than the standard DVD version. You dont have any ground to stand on, and your theory that Sony would jack up the prices (they cant even if they wanted to) is idiotic. And already proved wrong. (not posted at you BillR, in general to the ignorant)
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Blu Ray is taking off in a big way. IMO movies and players are already fairly priced. I don't have my player yet but I am getting one. But the yeah the Pavlovian Blu Ray reflex on [H] is quite funny.

[H] forums has become a haven for raving (anti-Sony, anti-Apple) fanatics, and Steve fans the flames and encourages it in this forum. My guess is that whatever generates more hits is considered a good thing. Witness recent Apple postings from Steve, head cheerleader of the teen "aPpLE/sOnY Is sUxXors" brigade. Whenever I see this kind of fanning of the flames from someone with a soapbox, I really have to wonder if these Ann Coulters of the world actually believe what they are saying, or do they just get financial benefit from fanning the flames. If you actually want a reasonably sane comment section, your best bet is Slashdot, where you often get very interesting analysis from posters. Here you get lame flame fests encouraged by those running the forum. You do the math. I would expect better than to have the staff acting a cheerleaders for the trolls.

Steve said:
What the!?!?! Now that is an effective ad….it maligns the competition but can’t sell a Mac. Wait…that actually sounds like Apple. Never mind, mystery solved.
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Steve said:
Ugh. Oh well, what can you expect if you use their products (I own a Touch)?
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Steve said:
...like we MAKE them do stupid shit. It's not our fault they were in the news today. ;)

Although I take pleasure in making fun of Apple / Macs, you know...cause I am a PC guy...that doesn't mean I am RESPONSIBLE or somehow CAUSE them to be the ass end of the media 3x today.
Click to expand...
 
Snowdog said:
[H] forums has become a haven for raving (anti-Sony, anti-Apple) fanatics, and Steve fans the flames and encourages it in this forum.
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I agree, but dont voice my concerns that much. I do find it pretty funny though, there are a lot of anti-sony fans here for some reason.
 
fallguy said:
I agree, but dont voice my concerns that much. I do find it pretty funny though, there are a lot of anti-sony fans here for some reason.
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Well, I gotta say that I hate their car audio. I have several friends (and many customers) that have bad luck with their sony car audio products. Our installers hate it. They see it come back with problems more than most brands. (some of their newer decks are improving, though.)

And I am also constantly disappointed by much of their home audio equipment. But their TV's? They are very nice, and they are really becoming competitive with pricing too. And Sony takes repairs very seriously, at least in our distribution area. Our local service center that repairs TV's under our service plan fixes Samsungs, Sony's, and most other brands for us. For example, we had a customer whose samsung died on them. A part went bad, and the service center ordered the part. It took forever, and 8 weeks later (imagine 8 weeks without your 50" plasma! arg!) samsung finally came through and authorized partial credit for a replacement unit. Our service center reports that this is the norm with samsung, whatever type of TV it is. They don't like to fix them because Samsung is horrible about getting parts to us, and often sends the wrong part, or they arrive damaged.

On the other hand a customer had a part fail on an SXRD rear projection set. It happened to be a part that NEVER fails on these TV's, and there wasn't a single replacement part to be found anywhere in the states. Sony had one sent from Japan, and it arrived in one week. The service center got the part, fixed the TV, and the whole ordeal only kept the customer without his TV for less than two weeks total.

I am anti-crap, whether it's made by sony, samsung, apple, microsoft, or whoever. But at the same time we need to recognize and appreciate the good things people make. HD DVD was good, even better than blu-ray in some regards. Both look so much better than standard DVD with many older titles, and virtually all newer titles - and that has got to be worth a few bucks over a standard DVD. Is it wrong to get more for your money? Now if you can snag those $18 blu ray sales on new flicks and get even more for your dollar, yay! Hooray for competitive vendors!

Anyways, I agree with you. People sure become haters.

"Why ya gotta be a hata'? The [H] needs more love!"

On that note, HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!
 
there are a lot of anti-sony fans here for some reason.
Click to expand...

Oh if I had time to count the ways!

1) Rootkits on music cd's

2) Proprietary formats (ram sticks, media, etc.)

3) Charging $50 to remove installed bloatware on new PC's they installed.

4) Pushing Blue-Ray out the door before the spec was fixed.

The list goes on and on...
 
The only instance where Sony deserves any anger are for actions of Sony Music/Media, not Sony Electronics. Things like the rootkit incident. I was pissed companies do this kind of thing. But a little perspective is necessary. Sony Hardware and Sony music are essentially two different companies. In many ways buying a media company was a mistake, as it gets Sony electronics painted with the sins of the media companies, things like RIAA support would be the top of my list.

The other supposed issues are just silly. Proprietary Formats? How does this affect you? Sony doesn't have a monopoly on anything. So you are not forced to buy any proprietary formats. Simply don't buy products with memory sticks if it matters that much. It's not like Sony has a monopoly and is forcing you to buy $400 dollar software that cost 99 cents to produce, that works with proprietary formats.

I know when I was looking for a camera, Sony was off the list because I wanted open standards, but there are plenty of other cameras to choose from. Sony doesn't have a monopoly on cameras, so I could care less about memory stick. Also Fuji and Olympus were off the list with their even lamer xD memory format. I don't get angry with any of them, I just don't buy.

OTOH Sony has been one of the main innovators of consumer electronics for 30+ years. Trinitron TV's/Monitors , CDs, The Walkman, Beta - actually had many years of success, video8, high8, handycam. Sony also is a big pusher of new formats even if they only have part interest in them. I remember friends buy a PS2 as their only DVD players when the format was new and expensive, PS2s were among the cheaper DVD players.

That Sony basically did the same thing with PS3 and Blu ray, a format that Sony again has part interest in, should come as no surprise. Except this time PS3 is an excellent Blu Ray player, and the PS2 was not so hot as a DVD player.

Blu Ray seems to be benefiting from the end of the format war. Many more movies are now going Dual Layer taking advantage of much more room for encoding. When there were two formats the neutral companies only wanted to do one encode so had to limit to 30GB and often the would limit to 25G. Now with one format they can maximize to it.

The format war is totally over, and aside from a tiny cadre of sour grapes HD-DVD fans and sony haters, the format looks to be taking off in a big way with fair pricing and incredible quality. Those folks can sit in the corner and deny themselves high def and wallow in their spite. Have fun with that. For the rest of us, it's all good.
 
Snowdog said:
Blu Ray is taking off in a big way. IMO movies and players are already fairly priced.
Click to expand...

Something like $300 for a standalone player is fairly priced? C'mon.

I own both, so I'm not a "fanboy" of either. I just think that there should be some cheap players like the HDDVD players. I don't think that the players are fairly priced at all.

TBH, I think there is quite a bit of gouging going on for the standalone players.


But, I think HDDVD had the right idea though. By putting the Standard DVD and HDDVD on one disc, made it the perfect choice, IMHO. I mean, who is going to have multiple $300 players in their house? Like myself, I still have a standard DVD player in the bedroom on that LCD. Because I could be playing video games in the living room and the woman could take an HDDVD in the bedroom and watch it.

But, no point in beating a dead horse I guess.
 
BrinNutz said:
Something like $300 for a standalone player is fairly priced? C'mon.
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I have friends who paid $1000 for an early DVD player. I paid $700 for my first Hifi VCR, I paid $400 for my first CD player. $300 of today dollars is a bargain. What is that, 4 fillups worth of gas?

There are something like 10 different companies making Blu Ray players, they want your money, they aren't gouging, they cost a lot more to build than a DVD player until cost reductions kick in over time.

The only reason there were ultra cheap HD-DVD players is because Toshiba was subsidizing the players in a big way. This is also why No one other than Toshiba was interested in building HD players. It might come as a surprise but most of these builders are companies that exist to make profits for shareholders, so they don't build things to sell them for less than they cost to build, that would be crazy. The price is falling just like every other consumer electronics product and from my recollection is falling even faster than DVD did.

So yes, absolutely the price is fair. It may not be as cheap as you would like it to be, but that doesn't mean it isn't fairly priced. 2 years into DVD format you would have been looking at $400 DVD players. Unfair?
 
Snowdog said:
The only instance where Sony deserves any anger are for actions of Sony Music/Media, not Sony Electronics.
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Sounds like you are making excuses for Sony.

Sony is Sony, I don't care if it is one branch. If the higher ups are not aware of what is going on then double so I don't want anything to do with the company if such a large mistake was allowed to happen.

Hell by your logic Exxon was not at fault for the Alaska spill because the CEO of Exxon was not at the helm.


The other supposed issues are just silly.
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Not to myself and others it seems, just you.

Proprietary Formats? How does this affect you? Sony doesn't have a monopoly on anything. So you are not forced to buy any proprietary formats. Simply don't buy products with memory sticks if it matters that much.
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Exactly- Why should I buy a camera (or any other item sold that uses memory stick) that doesn't use the same SD memory as everything else on the planet? If I buy a Sony camera I'm forced to use a Sony memory stick- Either Sony makes money on selling me the memory or a fee off the third party producing it.

Look up what proprietary means please, your argument doesn't make sense.
 
gdonovan said:
Hell by your logic Exxon was not at fault for the Alaska spill because the CEO of Exxon was not at the helm.
Click to expand...

What the hell? By your logic, the company of Exxon is bashed because a pilot decided to get drunk on the job. Exxon didn't condone this action, you fuckwit - it was the error of an employee - much like a branch of a company can take it upon themselves to govern and dictate changes in their department.

The CEO cannot be bothered with every-little-fucking-detail, that's why he has managers under him to control specific sectors. Sony is a gigantic company - beyond what you're obviously capable of comprehending. It's the equivalent of saying "This Sony Microwave I bought was complete garbage, I'll never buy a single Sony product ever again because everything they make is obviously garbage."

The team involved in making that microwave are not involved in the creation of a white plethora of their products. Their television quality is not indicative of their Microwaves, and vice versa - even if their Televisions are beautiful, you cannot translate that praise to a completely different sector of their company. You have to look at the individual track record of each sector; no company is perfect.
 
gdonovan said:
Exactly- Why should I buy a camera (or any other item sold that uses memory stick) that doesn't use the same SD memory as everything else on the planet? If I buy a Sony camera I'm forced to use a Sony memory stick- Either Sony makes money on selling me the memory or a fee off the third party producing it.

Look up what proprietary means please, your argument doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

I know what proprietary is. You still haven't told me why it is worth getting angry about? So you don't use anything proprietary. Like Microsoft windows for instance?

To me:

proprietary with no monopoly = So what, I have a lot of choices and can ignore it. (ie Sony Memory Stick)

Proprietary with monopoly = crap. I have little choice and I am pretty much forced to use it and pay excessive mark up. (ie Microsoft windows/office).
 
Snowdog said:
The only instance where Sony deserves any anger are for actions of Sony Music/Media, not Sony Electronics. Things like the rootkit incident. I was pissed companies do this kind of thing. But a little perspective is necessary. Sony Hardware and Sony music are essentially two different companies. In many ways buying a media company was a mistake, as it gets Sony electronics painted with the sins of the media companies, things like RIAA support would be the top of my list.

The other supposed issues are just silly. Proprietary Formats? How does this affect you? Sony doesn't have a monopoly on anything. So you are not forced to buy any proprietary formats. Simply don't buy products with memory sticks if it matters that much. It's not like Sony has a monopoly and is forcing you to buy $400 dollar software that cost 99 cents to produce, that works with proprietary formats.

I know when I was looking for a camera, Sony was off the list because I wanted open standards, but there are plenty of other cameras to choose from. Sony doesn't have a monopoly on cameras, so I could care less about memory stick. Also Fuji and Olympus were off the list with their even lamer xD memory format. I don't get angry with any of them, I just don't buy.

OTOH Sony has been one of the main innovators of consumer electronics for 30+ years. Trinitron TV's/Monitors , CDs, The Walkman, Beta - actually had many years of success, video8, high8, handycam. Sony also is a big pusher of new formats even if they only have part interest in them. I remember friends buy a PS2 as their only DVD players when the format was new and expensive, PS2s were among the cheaper DVD players.

That Sony basically did the same thing with PS3 and Blu ray, a format that Sony again has part interest in, should come as no surprise. Except this time PS3 is an excellent Blu Ray player, and the PS2 was not so hot as a DVD player.

Blu Ray seems to be benefiting from the end of the format war. Many more movies are now going Dual Layer taking advantage of much more room for encoding. When there were two formats the neutral companies only wanted to do one encode so had to limit to 30GB and often the would limit to 25G. Now with one format they can maximize to it.

The format war is totally over, and aside from a tiny cadre of sour grapes HD-DVD fans and sony haters, the format looks to be taking off in a big way with fair pricing and incredible quality. Those folks can sit in the corner and deny themselves high def and wallow in their spite. Have fun with that. For the rest of us, it's all good.
Click to expand...

Very good post. You make valid points, and I tend to agree with you. No one is forcing you to buy a Sony camera. (On a side note, I think I've seen a couple of Sony models that actually use SD or other format now ... correct me if I'm wrong.) The vast majority of their cameras use proprietary sony memory sticks, but you don't have to buy into that system. You're post is excellent and valid. You are on the right track.

BrinNutz said:
Something like $300 for a standalone player is fairly priced? C'mon.

I own both, so I'm not a "fanboy" of either. I just think that there should be some cheap players like the HDDVD players. I don't think that the players are fairly priced at all.

TBH, I think there is quite a bit of gouging going on for the standalone players.


But, I think HDDVD had the right idea though. By putting the Standard DVD and HDDVD on one disc, made it the perfect choice, IMHO. I mean, who is going to have multiple $300 players in their house? Like myself, I still have a standard DVD player in the bedroom on that LCD. Because I could be playing video games in the living room and the woman could take an HDDVD in the bedroom and watch it.

But, no point in beating a dead horse I guess.
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Snowdog answers this just fine below. As for your quip about HDDVD, you are totally right. Having one side be regular DVD and the other side be HD added insurmountable value and convenience to the customer's purchase. Too bad Toshy and partners probably patented it so we may never get to see it on blu-ray.

Snowdog said:
I have friends who paid $1000 for an early DVD player. I paid $700 for my first Hifi VCR, I paid $400 for my first CD player. $300 of today dollars is a bargain. What is that, 4 fillups worth of gas?

There are something like 10 different companies making Blu Ray players, they want your money, they aren't gouging, they cost a lot more to build than a DVD player until cost reductions kick in over time.

The only reason there were ultra cheap HD-DVD players is because Toshiba was subsidizing the players in a big way. This is also why No one other than Toshiba was interested in building HD players. It might come as a surprise but most of these builders are companies that exist to make profits for shareholders, so they don't build things to sell them for less than they cost to build, that would be crazy. The price is falling just like every other consumer electronics product and from my recollection is falling even faster than DVD did.

So yes, absolutely the price is fair. It may not be as cheap as you would like it to be, but that doesn't mean it isn't fairly priced. 2 years into DVD format you would have been looking at $400 DVD players. Unfair?
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+1. Absolutely 100% fair, if not more. Like someone else here said, Sony (and Blu-Ray partners) was nailing spikes in HD-DVD's coffin with every single network they got to switch sides. HD-DVD had to do the only thing left they could do, since IMHO they did such a poor job competing marketing wise: They had to slash prices quickly. How many millions did Toshiba lose???
 
Snowdog is one of the few people here on FP that actually makes good points and backs them up. Whether or not you agree with them is one thing but he backs up his arguments, a huge difference from the usual garbage you see here.
 
Crazy Goat said:
What the hell? By your logic, the company of Exxon is bashed because a pilot decided to get drunk on the job.
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That is what happened is it not? Exxon was trashed worldwide.

Exxon didn't condone this action, you fuckwit
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No sh*t.

The CEO cannot be bothered with every-little-fucking-detail, that's why he has managers under him to control specific sectors.
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Excuse me? Installing a rootkit on possibly millions of computers is a small detail?

The backflips you will go to defending Sony is amazing.
 
Snowdog said:
I know what proprietary is. You still haven't told me why it is worth getting angry about? So you don't use anything proprietary. Like Microsoft windows for instance?
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Again your logic is flawed- If I buy a PC I can use just about any OS on it, indeed there are more choices out there than I can imagine.

If I buy a Sony camera, I'm stuck using a Sony memory stick, period.
 
gdonovan said:
Again your logic is flawed- If I buy a PC I can use just about any OS on it, indeed there are more choices out there than I can imagine.

If I buy a Sony camera, I'm stuck using a Sony memory stick, period.
Click to expand...

Then don't buy a Sony. Enough said. Sony has made themselves at least a tad more universal these days. My dad's older Vaio laptop has only a memory stick card reader. The new ones now support more formats, including the universal and cheap SD memory. Now just make cameras that do the same...

In this world where cameras don't include the memory card, Sony is only hurting themselves by requiring that you use their proprietary memory cards. Some people will avoid buying them because of this.
 
I second this. I just picked up a HD-a30 for $75 as an "upconverting DVD player". Then i realized, "holy shit, HD-dvd has some good titles!" As such, I've been running around looking for some HD-dvd deals and I've been pretty luck so far. I had a PS3 around Christmas for 2 weeks and the thing i like most about it was the blu-ray player. I'm not saying that just because i played a few of the big name titles and was not impressed (assassins creed comes to mind) that the PS3 sucks. But I am saying the price of the games ($60) was outrageous so i couldn't justify owning a PS3 but i'll admit it had some sweet hardware. I'll just wait until the price comes down and a possible revision before i get back into PS3 again. For now, I LOVE my wii. :) HD-DVD is obsolete but the movies won't erase themselves or no longer work so f*** it! Buy those cheap HD-Dvd's!!

Ur_Mom said:
Exactly why I went HD-DVD. That, and Transformers. And the lower price. And the region free. And it wasn't dominated by Sony (not the only backer, but the highest profile).

I was thinking PS3, but I want a more dedicated player with an easy to use remote and interface. And the games just aren't there for the PS3. And as Microsoft said: people buy a console to play games. The fact that you can watch movies is an added bonus.

Hmmm. Oh well, I'll be buying a whole bunch of cheap HD-DVD's soon! :) Increase my collection. With HD-DVD going on clearance, I wonder if it will have a lot more adopters. And I wonder if it would be enough to breath life back into the format. I doubt it, but this is my fantasy! :) That, and that some decent porno was available on HD-DVD. Something with a plot (like I said, it's my fantasy. I realize that there is no plot in porn!).
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I am Legend HD-DVD/DVD Combo is on pre-order at amazon for 18.99. I believe the blu-ray is the same price. The 2 disc DVD with both movie versions is something like $23. Good deal on the Hi-Def formats, esp the HD-DVD Combo disc since you can play it in all your players, not just your new ones :)
 
SirKronan said:
In this world where cameras don't include the memory card, Sony is only hurting themselves by requiring that you use their proprietary memory cards. Some people will avoid buying them because of this.
Click to expand...

The general public are geese on this issue.
 
fallguy said:
I agree, but dont voice my concerns that much. I do find it pretty funny though, there are a lot of anti-sony fans here for some reason.
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becuase they make crap!

the playstation series has been allright, and their really high end stuff is awesome, but their consumer stuff is mostly crap

sony used to be an awesome company that actually made things worth buying, now all they make is garbage... i mean, have you looked inside one of their recievers?

they mostly push out fancy looking chinese GARBAGE becuase they figure, hey, its a sony, people will buy it right?

they market to people that have more money than brains to do research on what they are buying (that little tiny speaker home theatre system for example, i have heard better sound out of laptops!!!)
 
FLECOM said:
becuase they make crap!
sony used to be an awesome company that actually made things worth buying, now all they make is garbage... i mean, have you looked inside one of their recievers?
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And you are angry because they somehow forced you to buy this crap? I don't own a single sony product and last I checked, no one is forcing anyone to buy Sony products so why sit in your bile hating them. There are dozens of companies that make crap, do you sit around hating on them as well?

Just like with the "They make proprietary stuff" argument. Last I checked no one was forcing you to buy their stuff. So I really have to wonder about the psychology of wasting effort hating on Sony.
 
FLECOM said:
becuase they make crap!
the playstation series has been allright, and their really high end stuff is awesome, but their consumer stuff is mostly crap
sony used to be an awesome company that actually made things worth buying, now all they make is garbage... i mean, have you looked inside one of their recievers?
they mostly push out fancy looking chinese GARBAGE becuase they figure, hey, its a sony, people will buy it right?
they market to people that have more money than brains to do research on what they are buying (that little tiny speaker home theatre system for example, i have heard better sound out of laptops!!!)
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"because they make crap!" I am sure you're educated enough not to really make a generalized all-encompassing statement like that and really mean it...

Please read my post above. I hate Sony's car audio, and you're right about their stupid home audio too. And guess what? I don't buy it, and I don't even recommend it to customers at the store where I work. There are a couple of Sony home theater in a box sets that sound very impressive for their price, however. I will sell those all day, but most of their home theater isn't worth its salt.

But their TVs are quite good, and their larger LCD's are competitively priced and often provide very good picture quality. Also, working in retail I can tell you, no one is better than Sony at getting us replacement parts quickly to repair customers' TV's. Samsung absolutely sucks, LG is hit and miss, and other brands pale in comparison to Sony when it comes to repairs. And no, they don't break down more than other brands. There are many Sony models that we've sold more than two years ago that haven't had a single problem yet - NOT ONE! I know because I see what comes back and what we fix. I get to look at those stats in my position.

Some of their laptops are quite good as well. I bought a Sony Vaio laptop (shelf display even) two and a half years ago. I used it for a year without a single problem, then sold it to my dad who uses it for real estate, trips, home use, etc. It has never had a single part or piece fixed or replaced. My Macbook went to the shop for repairs 3 times during the first year of warranty! In fact it had hardware issues out of the box. And guess who has the highest reliability rating for laptops according to the magazines? Apple. Whatever.

Snowdog said:
And you are angry because they somehow forced you to buy this crap? I don't own a single sony product and last I checked, no one is forcing anyone to buy Sony products so why sit in your bile hating them. There are dozens of companies that make crap, do you sit around hating on them as well?

Just like with the "They make proprietary stuff" argument. Last I checked no one was forcing you to buy their stuff. So I really have to wonder about the psychology of wasting effort hating on Sony.
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That's my point. You don't want it don't buy it. I tell every customer that comes into the store and considers a Sony camera that they are locked into a more expensive proprietary memory. I make sure they know what they're getting into. This prevents many of them from buying Sony, hence my above post that they are losing at least some business. Not all customers are blind and hype-driven. But it's your choice. Sony's (with Minolta) SLR's are excellent cameras, and many of their point and shoots are top rated. Their SXRD TV lineup (hardly more expensive than competition's similar rear projection models) are quite respected for picture quality and reliability. So please be careful before you make a broad, all-encompassing statement like "because they make crap." I had some rough times with my Macbook, but if I say "Apple makes crap" the vast majority of Apple laptop owners would disagree. Most companies make some "crap." But to say Sony makes crap in general is just stupid. That's why Samsung is getting sued because their $500 blu-ray player won't play many new blu-ray titles while the $400 Sony plays them all just fine ....
 
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