Raid-5 on a budget...

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Blazestorm

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
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I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to start a RAID-5 Array without spending ridiculous amounts of money *coughockiecough*

Here's the basic setup.

Right now I have
Foxconn C51 AM2 Board
x2 4200 AM2 2.2ghz
2GB Patriot 667mhz
Lian Li V1000

2 x 500 SATA Seagates
1 x 500 IDE Seagate
2 x 250 SATA Seagates
1 x 80 IDE Seagate
1 x 120 SATA Seagate (I guess I like seagates :eek: )

3 in 2 AMS Hotswap Bay
5 in 3 AMS Hotswap Bay (Like the Galaxy 4.5)

And I'm planning to replace all of those with 8x750 Seagates... the server-grade ones that one guy is selling on here, they don't have a warranty through seagate but 1yr through him... so I'd have 8 drives up front... I plan to start with 4 drives and add to the array though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815121009

I found this 8port PCI-X card, which should work in a PCI slot correct, just at slower speeds?

I've read that software raid is cheaper, but not as good as hardware raid, which fits my case. For an OS I'll start with Server 2003/2008 (I should be able to get a copy from the company store here in Redmond, WA)... Not sure what is best...

The main purpose of this array is for personal storage, I film in HD and the footage takes up an enormous amount of space, I have the original tapes I filmed with as a backup for that. Then music, movies, HD movies etc.

I'm @ about 2 terabytes right now I figure I start with 4 drives, build the array, sell my old drives, then add 4 more. Although I wouldn't be too upset if I lost everything, It would take many weeks to obtain everything again, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Although for the important files I'll probably burn to DVD's every week or so , and then run a Raid-1 on this machine with probably those 2 250 gig drives as storage for the really important stuff.

Right now I'm only running Raid-0 on my 2 36.7 Raptors, but nothing for storage.

A lot of information, I just want to make sure I figure it all out before I start ordering stuff... I don't have a lot of money to spare, so I'm really looking for the cheapest route.
 
I'm currently using this card for a 6x750gb drive raid 5 in Win2003 and it's been working great. The price seems to be going up every week though; when I bought it it was $263 and like $255 the week before when I was originally shopping around.

It's not the fastest card and it runs pretty hot (I put a fan over mine), but it gets the job done for me.
 
I'm using Linux software raid 5. expanded the array twice and it is very stable. Got it up to 5x500gb for 2TB formatted (1.9T).

I set up samba to stream media to xbmc and set up media tomb to stream hd divx video to my ps3 and xbox360.
 
I definitely put forth a vote for Linux software RAID, if you're going to use software RAID at all. Google says your motherboard has six onboard SATA ports, so you're only two short. Here's what I would do:

1. Buy a $20 Silicon Image 2-port or 4-port PCI SATA card.
2. Plug 6 drives into the motherboard.
3. Plug the rest of the drives into the card.
4. Install Linux and set up the RAID.

Pros:
+ if you change your mind you've only wasted $20; you can keep the card for later
+ if you like it you've saved lots of money
+ you can easily move the array to different SATA controllers
+ using your onboard SATA should mean you won't be limited by PCI's low bandwidth

Cons:
- software RAID isn't as good as hardware RAID
- you won't be able to boot directly from a RAID-5; use a boot partition or a separate boot disk
 
bugfood said:
I definitely put forth a vote for Linux software RAID, if you're going to use software RAID at all. Google says your motherboard has six onboard SATA ports, so you're only two short. Here's what I would do:

1. Buy a $20 Silicon Image 2-port or 4-port PCI SATA card.
2. Plug 6 drives into the motherboard.
3. Plug the rest of the drives into the card.
4. Install Linux and set up the RAID.

Pros:
+ if you change your mind you've only wasted $20; you can keep the card for later
+ if you like it you've saved lots of money
+ you can easily move the array to different SATA controllers
+ using your onboard SATA should mean you won't be limited by PCI's low bandwidth

Cons:
- software RAID isn't as good as hardware RAID
- you won't be able to boot directly from a RAID-5; use a boot partition or a separate boot disk
Click to expand...

I don't have any experience in linux, I was planning to keep the 80 gig IDE as a boot-drive.

That would be a slight pain because I need to get data off most of these drives :eek: but I guess I can stick them in the 2 ports individually before I add more.

Can't I do software raid in Windows Server 2003? or 2008? I'm a lot more familiar with windows tbh...
 
Is there any reason this shouldn't work? I've never done anything but hardware Raid-0... and I've never used windows server, but I'll get a copy soon...
 
Blazestorm said:
I don't have any experience in linux, I was planning to keep the 80 gig IDE as a boot-drive.

That would be a slight pain because I need to get data off most of these drives :eek: but I guess I can stick them in the 2 ports individually before I add more.

Can't I do software raid in Windows Server 2003? or 2008? I'm a lot more familiar with windows tbh...
Click to expand...

From my experience, software raid in Linux (and Solaris) is a lot more flexible than in windows.
 
drizzt81 said:
From my experience, software raid in Linux (and Solaris) is a lot more flexible than in windows.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know how well Windows handles software RAID, but I do know that Linux can do what you need to do and, heck, Windows costs a lot of money.

Here's what I did a couple years ago to make a RAID-5 from one 200 GB IDE disk, two 200 GB SATA disks, and two 200 GB partitions. The three disks were full of files, but the partitions were empty, so I started off with a degraded array of the two partitions and gradually moved files and added disks to the array. The whole process was non-destructive, but, naturally, you should always have a backup anyway.

Code: 
1. create 3-disk RAID-5 with 2 disks (degraded):
# mdadm -C /dev/md2 -n 3 -l 5 /dev/sda6 /dev/sdc6 missing

2. create filesystem on array
# mkreiserfs /dev/md2

...move files onto array, freeing up /dev/hda...

3. add hda to md2 (no longer degraded):
# mdadm /dev/md2 -a /dev/hda

...move more files onto array, freeing up /dev/sdb...

4. add sdb to md2 (as a spare):
# mdadm /dev/md2 -a /dev/sdb

5. grow array by one device (now it's 4-disk and uses /dev/sdb): 
# mdadm -G /dev/md2 -n 4

6. resize filesystem to fill array:
# resize_reiserfs /dev/md2

...move more files onto array, freeing up /dev/sdd...

7. add sdd to md2 (as a spare), grow array, and resize filesystem:
# mdadm /dev/md2 -a /dev/sdd
# mdadm -G /dev/md2 -n 5
# resize_reiserfs /dev/md2

The array manages itself online, so you can use it while it's reshaping. No reboots, of course.

-Corey
 
bugfood said:
Windows costs a lot of money.
Click to expand...

Won't be paying anything for a copy, or very little... I have access to the company store, which meant $10 for XP, $20 for Vista, $40 for Vista Ultimate... not sure how much server is but either way it's almost nothing for a legitimate copy, it just gets a big sticker on the outside that says "COMPANY STORE PURCHASE, NOT FOR RESALE" and it's a pain to take those off :p (No, I won't buy anyone else a copy, it's really meant for employees to buy products as gifts, or to use for themselves/family members.)

Regardless, is there any reason this won't work with that controller, and my motherboard? I only have PCI slots, and it' a PCI-X board... but it should run, just at a slower speed. And honestly I'm not too concerned about speed right now, I'm going more for redundancy, decent amount of storage, and a low price.
 
Well, $X is always $X more than Linux costs, and you said you wanted to save money. :)

If that much money is worth it to you to use something familiar, than that is your choice. I can't advise you as to Windows' suitability in that regard, though.
 
windows sucks @$$ for software raid, linux is 100x better. If you going to buy that highpoint controller then go with windows if you like otherwise go linux.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815121009

Does anyone know how much slower (realistically) it would be in a PCI slot?

I don't really need a lot of speed, the reviews I read said it maxed out @ 285MB/s in Windows... but he expected 400 in linux, isn't the PCI bus limited to 266MB/S?

Regardless, that'd be fast enough for me... My raptors don't even go much faster than 100 MB/s

EDIT: Well shit, I didn't realize that card didn't support Raid5... and nobody else here seemed to notice that either :p

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816102062

I think I'll get 1 of these and 4 750 gig drives to start, and once I want to add to the array, I'll buy another card and 4 more drives. It's only $20 more for 2, than the supermicro card and it actually supports Raid5...
 
Blazestorm said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815121009

Does anyone know how much slower (realistically) it would be in a PCI slot?

I don't really need a lot of speed, the reviews I read said it maxed out @ 285MB/s in Windows... but he expected 400 in linux, isn't the PCI bus limited to 266MB/S?
Click to expand...

That reviewer was probably using the card in a full-length PCI-X slot. From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths
(or you can do the math)
Code: 
32-bit/33  MHz   133.3 MB/sec
32-bit/66  MHz   266.7 MB/sec
64-bit/33  MHz   266.7 MB/sec
64-bit/66  MHz   533.3 MB/sec
64-bit/133 MHz   1067  MB/sec

EDIT: Well shit, I didn't realize that card didn't support Raid5... and nobody else here seemed to notice that either :p
Click to expand...

You said you were going to be doing software RAID, in which case the card's claimed capabilities are irrelevant. Usually, when a cheap "RAID" card lists what levels it supports, that refers to it's BIOS- and driver-provided software RAID (AKA fakeraid). Just handle the RAID-5 within the operating system.

-Corey
 
Yea I talked to Ockie more about it... he said there really is no reason to buy a SATA card now if I have 6 ports onboard... save $100 and migrate later...

Which makes sense because I don't have a lot of cash to burn right now... I can add a 4 port or even 8 port card if I buy enough drives... I have 14 bays in my server now... so I could do 12-drive Raid5 and 1 drive for OS
 
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