network setup ...how im gonna do that ???

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game14

[H]ard|Gawd
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Nov 8, 2006
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here is what i got :
2 pc , motorola cable modem for internet, 1 monitor
here is what i want to do :
-connect both pc to the cable modem to surf the web (dont need both to be connected at the time)
-connect both pc to each other for filetransfer and using remote desktop to control both pc with one monitor and keyboard
-keep it as cheap and easy as possible

now after doing some reading and searching i can say im as stupid as before ... dont really know if i can do all that by simply connecting each pc to a router or
get another network card for one of my pc , connect the 1.pc to the cablemodem and the other 2. pc to the 1.pc via the network card (have only one lanport on each pc)
or a completly different setup ???
 
Sounds like a simple network. :)

Your ultimate setup would look like:

Internet ----- Motorola Cable Cox ----- Router ---- PC 1 / PC 2

A picture: http://www.networklab.co.uk/cmodem/images/route2tocm.gif (A terrible picture...but it gets the point across, just ignore all the text)

So...yes, Just buy yourself a Router, connect the Cable box to the router, and then connect PC 1 to a Port on the router, and connect PC 2 to a port on the router.

-connect both pc to the cable modem to surf the web (dont need both to be connected at the time)
Click to expand...

-- Yes using the above simple network, all comps attached to the router will be able to access the internet.

-connect both pc to each other for filetransfer and using remote desktop to control both pc with one monitor and keyboard
Click to expand...

-- Yes you will be able to transfer data from one computer to another, and RDP into each.
-keep it as cheap and easy as possible
Click to expand...

-- How much is the Linksys Router nowadays? 50 bucks for a decent one?
 
If your cable modem connects to your PC via ethernet, you only need to buy a 2 port or more Switch. they are very cheap.
I'd get a 100mbit or 1gbit switch depending what your network cards support.

Plug both PCs into the switch and plug the switch into the modem, job done, no configuring necessary.
 
get a router
get a cheap 2 port kvm
profit!

kvm will allow you to work on both computers if you need to, or you could use remote desktop/logmein etc.
 
Nenu said:
If your cable modem connects to your PC via ethernet, you only need to buy a 2 port or more Switch. they are very cheap.
I'd get a 100mbit or 1gbit switch depending what your network cards support.

Plug both PCs into the switch and plug the switch into the modem, job done, no configuring necessary.
Click to expand...

whats the difference between switch and router ???
yes modem connects via ethernet.
100mb should be enough , you dont get that speeds with the modem anyways - happy when i get 250kb/s (wondering where the 3mb/s are that promised by comcast :rolleyes:)
does a switch connect both pc to each other ???
 
marley1 said:
get a router
get a cheap 2 port kvm
profit!

kvm will allow you to work on both computers if you need to, or you could use remote desktop/logmein etc.
Click to expand...

decided to try remote desktop first before i get a kvm
 
another question : whats the problem with P2P and torrents and routers , read a lot of problems with that @ the egg reviews .
(using P2P and torrents a lot )
 
Most of the time its just a simple solution of port forwarding. A lot of routers disable certain ports so that you can't get yourself into trouble and so that malicious software cant enter on those ports. I've never had an issue with any router after I just forward that port to work specifically for that application on my computer. If you have trouble, there are many MANY instructions online of how to do it and its incredibly easy.
 
That would work perfect just make sure you have 2 more ethernet cables to connect the 2 pc's to the router.
 
game14 said:
whats the difference between switch and router ???
yes modem connects via ethernet.
100mb should be enough , you dont get that speeds with the modem anyways - happy when i get 250kb/s (wondering where the 3mb/s are that promised by comcast :rolleyes:)
does a switch connect both pc to each other ???
Click to expand...

As your modem connects to you via ethernet it will already be a modem/router.
This means you dont need another router, a switch will do but there is no harm in using another router it may cost you more though.
A plain router will effectively act like a hub not a switch, see definitions below.
To get a switched version, make sure that it says it is a Router/switch before purchase.

A router connects 2 or more different networks together, like the internet and your LAN.

A switch connects devices (PCs in this case) directly together while network transfers are happening. This is to prevent interference from other devices causing errors in the data flow as when that happens the data is either lost (UDP traffic) or is retransmitted (TCP traffic), thus slowing down the network.
Any devices on the switch must be on the same network (LAN) as the switch will not route. Its common to only have one network at home anyway so this shouldnt be an issue.

With only 2 devices networked, you can get away with a hub rather than a switch, this is the predecessor to the switch.
A hub is a the same as a switch but without the switching so all traffic goes everywhere at once. With only the 2 PCs connected a hub will serve like a permanently switched switch :)
Hubs are usually cheaper than switches but with todays prices, the difference can be negligible so its wise to get a switch in case you add more PCs etc to your network later.
 
so basically the switch switches the connection between pc depends on which is connected to the modem or switches connection to both pc automatically .
But doesnt that mean that the modem would detect 2 different pc connected to it instead of one ???
The router as far as i understand would camouflage both pc and make it look like one so i dont have to disconnect and reset the modem every time i switch computers .
or did i get something wrong here ?
 
Nenu said:
A plain router will effectively act like a hub not a switch, see definitions below. To get a switched version, make sure that it says it is a Router/switch before purchase.
Click to expand...

Nobody uses HUB technology any more (excluding very old junk on E-bay). All of the chips that current routers are based on use switch technology.

game14 said:
so basically the switch switches the connection between pc depends on which is connected to the modem or switches connection to both pc automatically .
But doesnt that mean that the modem would detect 2 different pc connected to it instead of one ???
The router as far as i understand would camouflage both pc and make it look like one so i dont have to disconnect and reset the modem every time i switch computers .
or did i get something wrong here ?
Click to expand...

In reality the modem is only talking to the router and the modem sees it as a single device. The router/switch does not alternate or switch connections from each PC to the modem in turn, it doesn't need to do that. That piece of tech magic is called NAT. The NAT function translates traffic from multiple PCs so that all of that traffic can use a single IP address viewed from the public WAN side of the router.

You need a router to use more than one PC on a single internet connection. The switch that is built into routers is on the LAN side and logically after the NAT function of the router (looking from the WAN side inward). PCs connected to the router can talk to each other since they are connected through the switch in the router.

Technically it is possible with some modems to go directly into a switch (not a router switch combo) and then have multiple PCs connected to the switch. In that case, each PC would get it's own public IP address from the ISP. That config IS NOT SECURE and should not be used. Many ISPs will block that config as well.
 
game14 said:
so basically the switch switches the connection between pc depends on which is connected to the modem or switches connection to both pc automatically .
But doesnt that mean that the modem would detect 2 different pc connected to it instead of one ???
The router as far as i understand would camouflage both pc and make it look like one so i dont have to disconnect and reset the modem every time i switch computers .
or did i get something wrong here ?
Click to expand...

hehe, I'll try and give you a better idea.
I'll start with some grounding on what the network components are:

First there were Hubs that connected/networked PC's together.
Every computer that sends data to another computer will have that data appear on the network lines of all the computers attached to the network as all computers are simultaneously connected to each other.
Sometimes a computer will transmit data at the same time another computer transmits data, this is called a collision. Usually the data needs to be retransmitted by both computers so it ends up wasting network bandwidth
This is usually fine if the network isnt near its maximum capacity.
However when the network is getting busy, there will be a lot more collisions and if enough re-transmission starts occuring, the network can quickly get to full capacity and there will be an exponential rise in the number of collisions. You can see where this is going.

Then came the Switch which only allows computers to be connected to each other when data is being transferred. When there is no data being transferred, the computers are isolated from the network.
However because a connection is made every time data needs to be transferred, the computer thinks it is permanently connected to the network.
A Switch will detect that traffic needs to be sent from one particular computer to another and creates a temporary network connection between them to allow the data to be transferred.
In creating a network that only includes those 2 computers, all other network traffic from other computers will not interfere so there will be no collisions.
This makes for a much faster and reliable network, even under higher load situations.

A Switch has another advantage in that it not only creates a network to send data from one PC to the other, it simultaneously creates another network to allow data to be sent back.
On a Hub network both the send and receive signals end up on the same wires.
In a switch, the send and receive connections are completely isolated - separate networks, so effectively you have up to 100% more bandwidth bi-directional.

The Modem is just like another computer on the network that your PCs talk to to access the internet. It is actually another computer but not a PC.
The Modems job is to speak the electrical language of your phone line (ADSL / DSL etc).
MODEM stands for MOdulator/DEModulator as it uses an electrical carrier wave to carry the data signal.
The data signal is modulated on/off the carrier wave depending whether it is leaving your network or coming into your network.


So a Hub or Switch allows all network devices, in this case your 2 PCs and your Modem/Router to be connected to each other.
In this case, the Router is part of the Modem and its job is to route traffic from your local network to the big network of the Internet. It also generally has a firewall and other security features to help protect your network.
The Router is not used to transfer data on your local network between the PCs, that is the job of the Switch or Hub.

A Router does one job, it takes data from one network and converts it so it can be accessed by PCs etc on another network. This is known as NAT (Network Address Translation).
In a way this does hide the PCs from the outside as the actual IPs of those PCs are not accessible from the internet. There are easy ways to get round this so Routers/Modems generally have other security software, like a firewall, to help prevent incoming traffic (that isnt expected) getting to your PCs.

Lemme know if you want more info on any of the above.
 
ok , much confusion . Here is what im basically have to do now when i connect to the internet . I unplugg the cable modem from the power so its off , leave it like this for 5 to 10 minutes . Meanwhile i switch the network cable from one pc to the other. Plug in the power from the modem again , wait till it resets and turns off to standby . Then i turn on the pc , turn on the modem .
If i dont follow that procedure i dont get any connection to the internet , if i hotswitch the networkcable between the pc i get the message from comcast "wrong IP" or "no IP found".

So i guess like Spartacus said i have only one IP that doesnt allow me to connect multiple pc to the modem . Dont know how the modem knows that , but anyways....as far as i understand a simple switch wont work here because the modem would detect 2 pc instead of one and refuse to give the second one an IP .
right or wrong ?
So do i need a router or a switch now ???
 
The file transfer part is pretty easy assuming you've got the network setup at this point (cablemodem to router to pc1/2 via build-in switch would be the best solution for you, the post above mine also has some good info on how switches and home routers work).

Assuming both PCs are windows based (and are not too familiar with file sharing and windows networking), you can do the following;
  1. Make sure each PC is in the same 'workgroup.' To get to this setting go to the properties of "My Computer" (or system via the control panel) and on the 'Computer Name" tab and look under "Full Computer Name." If they are not in the same workgroup, click on "Change" and update the workgroup name (you can name this anything you want, like 'home'), changing your computer name if its something hard like "HOME-a38x094ja381" would be good to do now, as well. If you do this make sure both computers have different names. You'll need to reboot after this.
  2. If both PCs share the same username/password then you can just share folders and windows will 'passthrough' your password so you don't get prompted with a login dialog. An example would be both computers using the "Administrator" account with a blank password. If both computers don't have the same username/password, you'll want to see below.
  3. Now you want to share a folder, let say you want to make a folder called 'shared' on the desktop of each machine. Create the folder on your desktop and name it. After naming it, right click and go to 'properties.' Click on the sharing tab and you should get some warning about sharing (my home system is on a domain, so I don't remember what the wording is), just click on 'just enable file sharing' (or go through the wizard if you wish) and click ok. Now click on the 'share this folder' radio button, include your information (like share name, this can be the same as the other computer) and permissions (if the button is there) and click "OK"
  4. Now you can access the shares bu clicking "start" then "run" then \\<computername>\<sharename> (example would be \\mycomputer\myshare). If you go to \\<computername> you can also drag & drop the folder to your desktop to create a link or you can map it to a drive by right-clicking 'my computer.'
To create/modify users accounts;
  1. There are two ways to do this, via management console or 'users' via the control panel. I'm a management console person, but you may just want to create the user via the control panel. If you want management console instructions, just pm me.
  2. Go into the control panel and double click the user's icon
  3. use the same details you use on the other PC, follow this for each user who needs access to your shared drive.
That should get you going for now.
 
game14 said:
ok , much confusion . Here is what im basically have to do now when i connect to the internet . I unplugg the cable modem from the power so its off , leave it like this for 5 to 10 minutes . Meanwhile i switch the network cable from one pc to the other. Plug in the power from the modem again , wait till it resets and turns off to standby . Then i turn on the pc , turn on the modem .
If i dont follow that procedure i dont get any connection to the internet , if i hotswitch the networkcable between the pc i get the message from comcast "wrong IP" or "no IP found".

So i guess like Spartacus said i have only one IP that doesnt allow me to connect multiple pc to the modem . Dont know how the modem knows that , but anyways....as far as i understand a simple switch wont work here because the modem would detect 2 pc instead of one and refuse to give the second one an IP .
right or wrong ?
So do i need a router or a switch now ???
Click to expand...

Either as long as the router also has a switch.
Its a shame to spend money on a router that has only a hub.

You only have one IP because you have only connected one thing to the modem/router.
The modem router will have its own DHCP server so can give more than one IP.

I would do the following:
1) Buy a 4 Port, 100mbit or 1Gbit Switch (depending how fast your network cards can run and whether you are bothered about it).
2) Connect the Switch to the Modem/Router. Theres sometimes an uplink port to connect to the modem/router, if not just plug into any network port on the switch.
3) Plug your 2 PCs into the switch

Job done.
 
Wow, how far this thread has come. I stand by my initial post, in that the simplest solution here, Purchasing a Router, is by far the best. A router does everything a Switch does and a bit more, so, while a Switch *may* serve your needs, its better to be safe than sorry at this point.

I think folks here are making this a bit more complicated than need be :)

Once again, your setup would just go

Cable Box -- Wire to WAN port on Router --- Ethernet Cable on PORT 1 of Router to NIC on Computer 1 // Ethernet Cable on PORT 2 of Router to NIC on Computer 2

--

Lol, I finally figured out why Nenu has been confusing me! Based on the post you just posted. You keep telling him to get a switch, why? You keep saying modem/router. He never mentioned he had a router, and I doubt motorola gave him one. If they had this problem wouldn't exist as the router would have handled the DHCP addressing. To me, you are describing this scenario Nenu: Cable -- Router -- Switch -- Comp.

All he needs is Cable -- Router -- Comp. As the router he buys (as most modern Home routers) already supporting Switching and DHCP addressing.

Nenu said:
Either as long as the router also has a switch.
Its a shame to spend money on a router that has only a hub.
Click to expand...

I was pretty sure all SOHO Switches were Layer 3 switches: aka a Router.
 
All the single port ethernet modems I have bought in the last few years have a router, perform NAT and have a DHCP server, so another router wouldnt be required if his is similar.

If however his PC is getting an internet IP directly, then yes, a router will be needed as in this case there is no router.

We had best check :)
OP, can you open a command prompt and type
ipconfig

Let us know the first 2 numbers of the IP address you have been given.
Dont give us the full 4 numbers as if you have a static IP someone might try and probe you.
From this we can tell if you have a direct internet IP (no router) or a local LAN one.
A local LAN IP suggests you have a router and a DHCP server already.

Alternatively as abudhu said, if you just get a 4 port router you dont need to worry about the above but it might cost a little more.
 
Serious Nenu? Gosh, I it has been so long since I got this old/busted Cable Box from Comcast :p
 
Dude I'm only trying to help.
I'm looking for the cheapest option, you went for the least hassle.
Its good the OP has the choice :)
 
Nenu said:
Dude I'm only trying to help.
I'm looking for the cheapest option, you went for the least hassle.
Its good the OP has the choice :)
Click to expand...

Nah man, I was being serious. I had no clue they have/are integrating the router capabilities into the actual cable box they sell ya. Thats nuts, but then its also good to know for my future endevours aye. :)
 
Nenu said:
All the single port ethernet modems I have bought in the last few years have a router, perform NAT and have a DHCP server, so another router wouldnt be required if his is similar.

If however his PC is getting an internet IP directly, then yes, a router will be needed as in this case there is no router.

We had best check :)
OP, can you open a command prompt and type
ipconfig

Let us know the first 2 numbers of the IP address you have been given.
Dont give us the full 4 numbers as if you have a static IP someone might try and probe you.
From this we can tell if you have a direct internet IP (no router) or a local LAN one.
A local LAN IP suggests you have a router and a DHCP server already.

Alternatively as abudhu said, if you just get a 4 port router you dont need to worry about the above but it might cost a little more.
Click to expand...

first 2 numbers of IP 71 , but the IP has actually 10 numbers total.As far as i know its a static IP.
gonna see if i find the data sheed for that modem , its a surfboard SB 5100, around 4 or 5 years old .
 
abudhu said:
Serious Nenu? Gosh, I it has been so long since I got this old/busted Cable Box from Comcast :p
Click to expand...

the modem is mine , was an offer from CC long time ago , you got the modem for free after MIR with a comcast self instalation kit (kit was $0,99 at the time).
 
Based on what you just posted about your IP, it is indeed a router that you will need to purchase.

Your external IP would be 71.2##.###.##
Your internal IP would end up being 192.168.X.X

So once again, just go pick yourself up a (wireless) router (linksys, Dlink Netgear, Buffalo) and you'll be set.
 
IP 71.xxx.xxx.xx
subnet 255.xxx.xxx.x
gateway 71.xxx.xxx.x

no 192.....
 
Your Internal IP's *After* purchasing the router is what I meant. ;)
 
...then router it is . Gonna pick the one up i linked before (wired is fine for me , as both pc are barely 3 feet away from each other)
... thank you all very much for your help , especially for those nice explanations .:D
gonna post back as soon as i get my router .
 
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