Self Tuning Guitars?

[Rich Tate]

Gibson is creating guitars that now that will actually be able to tune themselves. Of course the idea is drawing a lot of flack as well as praise.

The idea is drawing both kudos and criticism from guitar professionals and purists. On blogs and forums around the Web, some players call it an inexcusable crutch for sloppy players. Others, particularly those who use different tunings for different songs, say it could be a godsend.

 

[GilmourD]

Well, that's all great and good... However, Gibson should worry more about how far their quality control has slipped over the past few years than making a guitar self-tuning. A self-tuning guitar is great when the frets are level enough that all the notes on the fretboard sound correctly.

 

[Nenu]

Its ridiculous to diss this idea, its a great idea.
As far as I can see, those that dont like it are annoyed that they have a skill others dont have which will become redundant.

I play guitar and can tune well but a guitar that can tune itself is seconds is perfect for gigging.
I know a few people who play guitar well but cant tune it for toffee.
This is a godsend for them.

 

[Nenu]

Its ridiculous to diss this idea, its a great idea.
As far as I can see, those that dont like it are annoyed that they have a skill others dont have which will become redundant.

I play guitar and can tune well but a guitar that can tune itself is seconds is perfect for gigging.
I know a few people who play guitar well but cant tune it for toffee.
This is a godsend for them.

ps this is assuming it works well but from the testing and statemetns they have made, it sounds like its been implemented well.

 

[GilmourD]

Its ridiculous to diss this idea, its a great idea.
As far as I can see, those that dont like it are annoyed that they have a skill others dont have which will become redundant.

I play guitar and can tune well but a guitar that can tune itself is seconds is perfect for gigging.
I know a few people who play guitar well but cant tune it for toffee.
This is a godsend for them.

Well, like I said, it's all fine and good, but Gibson's spending so much time and money on new product that its existings products are, by and large, overpriced pieces of garbage.

Besides that, as long as you have good strings, a well-cut nut, and tuners that don't slip, a guitar will hold tune until you change it or you violently beat it. My gigging guitars have never gone out of tune during a gig. I pre-tune them in seconds before we start our set and at the end of the set they're still in tune. OK, I'll admit that one has a Floyd Rose on it and I haven't actually needed to touch the tuning in months, but I otherwise play Strats and Teles with vintage setups that stay in tune just fine.

 

[Nenu]

Well, like I said, it's all fine and good, but Gibson's spending so much time and money on new product that its existings products are, by and large, overpriced pieces of garbage.

Besides that, as long as you have good strings, a well-cut nut, and tuners that don't slip, a guitar will hold tune until you change it or you violently beat it. My gigging guitars have never gone out of tune during a gig. I pre-tune them in seconds before we start our set and at the end of the set they're still in tune. OK, I'll admit that one has a Floyd Rose on it and I haven't actually needed to touch the tuning in months, but I otherwise play Strats and Teles with vintage setups that stay in tune just fine.

Sorry, I wasnt replying to you, I didnt know you had posted

At some indoor gigs, when the hall fills up, it gets much hotter.
This sometimes affects my tuning.
A quick tune while the song is being announced would be really handy.

I'm well versed in DSP and there wont be an issue with dirty strings other than it might take a little longer to tune. I am sure they wont be using only the fundamental frequencies but will use many higher harmonics too. This is born out by them stating they are using frequencies well above the fundamentals.
as long as the frequency of string resonance can be monitored correctly, there is no reason the string cant be tuned.

I'll wait to see how well it works before deciding if I would use it but I am pretty hopeful.

 

[m3ta1head]

Sounds like a lazy alternative to actually tuning your guitar-it's not that hard!

Besides, you couldn't use this with a locking floyd system, so its dumb

 

[Tabs]

Anyone who's "all for this" is missing the point the detractors (myself included) are trying to make... Tuning isn't just some formality that guitar players have to deal with before playing - it's a vital part of training your ear that applies to virtually all aspects of playing.

Being able to tell if you're even slightly out of tune or not and being able to adjust to that even on the fly with your hands alone is going to make you sound better in the long run. That sort of attention to pitch affects your intonation when bending notes and so on as well. If some kid starts out with this type of guitar and never actually learns to tune him/herself and know intuitively the difference between in and out of tune, it's a setup for a world of hurt imo.

I'm also curious on their marketing with this - most high end guitars hold their tuning extremely well as long as the guitar is set up correctly and the strings are properly stretched after being put on. I use my strobe tuner right before a show and it's rarely ever off even slightly after an hour+ of playing.

Gibson doesn't exactly make low-end instruments that would have tuning problems anyway, so I'm not sure who this system is being marketed to...

Ryan

 

[MartinX]

Anyone who's "all for this" is missing the point the detractors (myself included) are trying to make... Tuning isn't just some formality that guitar players have to deal with before playing - it's a vital part of training your ear that applies to virtually all aspects of playing.

Being able to tell if you're even slightly out of tune or not and being able to adjust to that even on the fly with your hands alone is going to make you sound better in the long run. That sort of attention to pitch affects your intonation when bending notes and so on as well. If some kid starts out with this type of guitar and never actually learns to tune him/herself and know intuitively the difference between in and out of tune, it's a setup for a world of hurt imo.

I'm also curious on their marketing with this - most high end guitars hold their tuning extremely well as long as the guitar is set up correctly and the strings are properly stretched after being put on. I use my strobe tuner right before a show and it's rarely ever off even slightly after an hour+ of playing.

Gibson doesn't exactly make low-end instruments that would have tuning problems anyway, so I'm not sure who this system is being marketed to...

Ryan

More casual players?

Folks who play recreationally and maybe aren't that interested in honing their talents to epic levels, just being able to pick up the guitar an pluck out a few notes without having think about tuning?

Not everyone who enjoys driving is aiming for Formula One.

Presumably the auto-tuning can be turned off, and surely guitars will still be sold without it, so you zen axe-heroes or whatever can still do your thing.

Unless you're just worried that your sacred mastery of fine tuning will be exposed as a marginal skill

Whatever, I mostly think it's just a gimmick.

 

[Manaknight]

Sounds like a lazy alternative to actually tuning your guitar-it's not that hard!

Besides, you couldn't use this with a locking floyd system, so its dumb

first...no offense but i hate floyd rose setups, they have caused me nothing but headaches in all the guitars i've owned that had them.

as for tuning, i consider myself a decent player, have made enough money to sustain myself via my guitar (though now i'm back to normal work for the time being) and my tuning ability is mediocre at best. i can tune to standard, can occasionally hear if i'm out, but i dont have the super sharp tuning ear...oh well i think this would be awesome and save me time and effort that could be better spent on other aspects of guitar playing

 

[mavalpha]

Piano tuning has always required a professional, and pianists never drew any criticism for not being able to tune their own instruments. Why are guitar players so elitist about this?

 

[Ludic]

Piano tuning has always required a professional, and pianists never drew any criticism for not being able to tune their own instruments. Why are guitar players so elitist about this?

Because guitarist only have 6 strings to tune instead of over 200.

 

[GilmourD]

Piano tuning has always required a professional, and pianists never drew any criticism for not being able to tune their own instruments. Why are guitar players so elitist about this?

Because tuning a piano and tuning a guitar are really two separate things.

Guitar tuning involves 6 strings which reproduce all the notes. Most of the time, the frets of the guitar are intonated well enough that all the notes sound true. If they're not intonated properly, you need to have the guitar set up. A lot of players, even a lot of professionals, have a professional tech do setups.

However, a piano involves a MINIMUM of 176 strings, based on when your piano was made (older pianos had two strings per note while most modern piano have three strings per note except for the lowest notes). That 176 figure is based on the older two-string-per-note pianos. On top of that, the tuning on a piano is tempered, which means that that the notes aren't actually tuned to proper mathematical pitch since the human ear actually doesn't like that. Everything's a bit flat on the higher end mathematically but it sounds good to the ear. A good piano tuner does that by ear once he's found his reference by counting beats of discord between two notes, although a lot keep a strobe tuner around.

It's not a matter of elitism. It's a matter that tuning a guitar takes at worst two minutes and piano tuning takes a couple hours. You can (and I have) tuned a guitar mid-song during a performance. You can't do that with a piano since you need to partially disassemble it.

I can't tune a piano even with the best tools. I can tune a guitar in 30 seconds or less.

 

[twofiveone]

Bah,

Many of you seem to be missing the point.

Music is one of those subjects where a little knowledge can be dangerous. Everybody and their brother who has ever listened to the radio or held 'uncle bob's' saxophone thinks he/she is an expert about music and what constitutes good music. More often than not, every time I have a conversation with someone who 'holds' an instrument it ends up being....:It's good because I like it' or "I like it because it's good".

Developing the ability to tune an instrument is necessary in order to play an instrument well (even marginally well). As stated in earlier posts, it's a vital and necessary aural skill which not only teaches one to 'hear' finer variations in pitch and between two or more pitches, but also helps musicians develop other aural skills which may be valuable such as detecting variations in pitch on other musicians' instruments or vocals, or differences in tonal color just to name two.

The original intent of the tuner was to aid musicians in developing the aural skills necessary to tune their instruments without a crutch. But as with all technology, it is too often misused by lay people and professional musicians alike as a substitute for developing 'good ears'. Now that abuse can be taken one step further by eliminating the necessity for learning to tune an instrument altogether, thus further reinforcing the 'cheat code' mentality prevalent in today's society.

What did musicians (even weekend warriors) do for hundreds of years before the invention of electric pianos that can digitally change keys, or bars clamped on necks of their guitars so they can 'learn' to play in the keys of F or B-flat instead of E or A. Is it possible they had to actually use their ears to tune their own instruments? God forbid! Seems to be an odd idea considering the nature of the medium.

Calling people who disagree with this particular implementation of technology 'elitists' is a cop out and a further indication that those who use the term to describe professional musicians, professionally trained musicians, music educators, or others who understand the importance of developing good aural skills in a medium which depends solely on the ears to determine its relative merits; only brings to the fore some peoples' discomfort with the idea of hard work and perseverance, to develop a skill which is not packaged in a video game or 'not worth the time'.

If a guitarist or horn player can't tune his/her instrument 'on the fly' without a crutch, he/she should not quit their day job, and should not be dissing those musicians accomplished enough to not need a day job to pay the rent.

I work with several outstanding musicians who have little or no formal training, but they still understand the importance of being able to tune their instruments without using the latest 'cheat codes'.

By bringing this product to market, Gibson does not have the best interests of musicians and music. at heart. It would seem their primary interest is in selling guitars; guitars which encourage people to think they can become quality musicians by taking yet another shortcut to success. In the short term Gibson may well increase their bottom line, but in the long term will do music and musicians a disservice.

 

[GilmourD]

By bringing this product to market, Gibson does not have the best interests of musicians and music. at heart. It would seem their primary interest is in selling guitars; guitars which encourage people to think they can become quality musicians by taking yet another shortcut to success. In the short term Gibson may well increase their bottom line, but in the long term will do music and musicians a disservice.

I think there's probably the best point of this thread. Gibson's CEO, Henry Juscewicz (sp?) has actually stated that Gibson sells lifestyle, not musical instruments. Sure, Leo Fender may not have actually been able to play guitar, but he was a music lover and built his instruments for musicians and his companies carry that tradition on today. Gibson is just looking for the big fat money. They just want to sell guitars that hang on the wall in a lawyer's office. Their quality control has gone down the tubes from a player's standpoint.

Hence, for a musician that actually plays, this is just fine.