With no AA, it might even be faster than a 8800 Ultra, in most resolutions, but when AA is on, performance is very poor. This is not good at all, for a high-end card and that's one of the reasons why this iteration of R600, is a complete failure.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
2900XT is making a big comeback!
- Thread starter POPEGOLD
- Start date
With no AA, it might even be faster than a 8800 Ultra, in most resolutions, but when AA is on, performance is very poor. This is not good at all, for a high-end card and that's one of the reasons why this iteration of R600, is a complete failure.
Wide Tent is a step in the wrong direction. Blur should NEVER be used as a means to improve image quality, due to its major drawback of destroying the inherent detail of the image it's trying to "improve".
However, if you mean the possibility of adding new filter variations or even completely new filters, I agree. It's a good feature that should allow more flexibility and the user can more or less, customize everything to his/her own liking. The existing filters however, are a joke, because they do the exact opposite of what they were intended to do: improve IQ.
Uberhitzung
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 120
what? of course they are. i was absolutely shocked to see in a matter of days-to-weeks go fromI agree completely. The ridiculously terrible nature of the mentioned review leads me to think that the author at Tweak Town is on ATI's payroll? I would never trust anything from that site again.
P.S.: this thread is so pwned
1.the x2900 sucks
2. we lowered the standard's and now crappier cards can compare
3. hype about new magic mystery drivers and heavy meth smoking.
4. now the x2900 compares to the GTX
its a SCAM JOB.
Corporate American CONJOB.
Trust me, your buddies at AMD did sell you out
AMD's new chips suck, they takeover a shitty video-card company, AND...
make a new chip that sucks for a shitty video card company.
JackAshley
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Messages
- 729
what? of course they are. i was absolutely shocked to see in a matter of days-to-weeks go from
1.the x2900 sucks
2. we lowered the standard's and now crappier cards can compare
3. hype about new magic mystery drivers and heavy meth smoking.
4. now the x2900 compares to the GTX
its a SCAM JOB.
Corporate American CONJOB.
Trust me, your buddies at AMD did sell you out
AMD's new chips suck, they takeover a shitty video-card company, AND...
make a new chip that sucks for a shitty video card company.
*gasp*
He said it! He did! He dared to say it! *snicker*Uberhitzung
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 120
here is the nvidia timeline.
1. nvidia releases gefore 8800gts, it smashes all the competition.
2. nvidia releases geforce 8800gtx, completely obliterates everything, adds insult to injury.
3. nvidia releases the geforce 8800 ultra, a card few dreamed possible when they spent their life saving's on the debut geforce 3 Ti500, but none the less redefines current graphics capabilities and sets a standard far far far beyond what currently RELEASED games are capable of. and yes, smashes all the competition with a now ever-widening margin the size of the grand canyon
1. nvidia releases gefore 8800gts, it smashes all the competition.
2. nvidia releases geforce 8800gtx, completely obliterates everything, adds insult to injury.
3. nvidia releases the geforce 8800 ultra, a card few dreamed possible when they spent their life saving's on the debut geforce 3 Ti500, but none the less redefines current graphics capabilities and sets a standard far far far beyond what currently RELEASED games are capable of. and yes, smashes all the competition with a now ever-widening margin the size of the grand canyon
Uberhitzung
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 120
i was fair, i posted how the 8800 did too*gasp*
and i want post-of-the-lifetime-of-hardform award for that because i am sick of all this BS and somebody had to say the truth and make a clear point that obviously most in the community who aren't still baked of that r600-methpipe agree with.
I have an 8800 and i have a new amd chip.
This is quite frankly the biggest load of bollocks I've read in ages.
AA is forceable at driver level for OpenGL and DirectX and so AA works in basically all games, there might be a few rare exceptions. The 2900 and the 8800 cards can both run AA with HDR turned on, again forceable through the control panel.
If a developer wants to drop AA support then thats fine, it's their choice but this certainly isnt the majorety we're talking about and most of the time control panel forced AA can take it's place.
Part of the reason for getting such high end kit is to use features like AA and AF to tidy up the image, most average gamers use low end LCD monitors which run embarrisngly low resolutions like 1280 1024, at these resolutions AA is absolutely essential to tidy up the image or it just looks like pants.
You won't downplay the importance of AA in this forum, so don't even bother trying.
Uberhitzung
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 120
i would like to 100% agree with this point specifically.
you can force AA through the awsomeness of nVidia driver superiority.
thus run HDR and AA. yay, i still get over 200fps
Maybe, eventually, the 2900 parts will beat the 8800's... but by the time they do, the refresh 'ultra version' card for Nvidia's next generation part will be out.
Theres only two logical explanations to this scenario...
#1. People don't just give away money to you because you changed the text on your website to Green. In fact, it just looks plain ugly...
#2. The day that hot 3D lady left ATi's marketing scheme, so did the balls within the company that chased after it...
These my friends must be the only two reasons as to why ATi is failing...
- Fred
PS... If you think for a second I was being serious, then I think ATi has a position open for you in one of their leadership positions...
#1. People don't just give away money to you because you changed the text on your website to Green. In fact, it just looks plain ugly...
#2. The day that hot 3D lady left ATi's marketing scheme, so did the balls within the company that chased after it...
These my friends must be the only two reasons as to why ATi is failing...
- Fred
PS... If you think for a second I was being serious, then I think ATi has a position open for you in one of their leadership positions...
Boy, I love the video card forums, such good conversation and discussion these days...
Yeah, I forgot, all of ATIs previous generations sucked too, 9800xt, X850XTPE and the X1950XTX were just decimated by nVidia's offerings at the time. Damn shitty video card company...
Lets see some DX10 benches or how about DX10 SLI benches for any of those cards...oh that's right, the drivers still don't work after 8 months of the card being released.
Wow, 31 posts so far and we're giving you the post of the lifetime award, congrats.
Yeah, you get over 200 fps...in what, return to castle wolfenstein, you could atleast say what game your getting these numbers at and at what resolution. And the awesomenss of the nVidia drivers and their driver team is a site to behold, we've seen 3 driver iterations thus far for the HD2900XT which was released in May and we've seen the same number for 8800 series since Nov...and once again, how about that DX10 SLI.
what? of course they are. i was absolutely shocked to see in a matter of days-to-weeks go from
1.the x2900 sucks
2. we lowered the standard's and now crappier cards can compare
3. hype about new magic mystery drivers and heavy meth smoking.
4. now the x2900 compares to the GTX
its a SCAM JOB.
Corporate American CONJOB.
Trust me, your buddies at AMD did sell you out
AMD's new chips suck, they takeover a shitty video-card company, AND...
make a new chip that sucks for a shitty video card company.
Yeah, I forgot, all of ATIs previous generations sucked too, 9800xt, X850XTPE and the X1950XTX were just decimated by nVidia's offerings at the time. Damn shitty video card company...
Lets see some DX10 benches or how about DX10 SLI benches for any of those cards...oh that's right, the drivers still don't work after 8 months of the card being released.
i was fair, i posted how the 8800 did too
and i want post-of-the-lifetime-of-hardform award for that because i am sick of all this BS and somebody had to say the truth and make a clear point that obviously most in the community who aren't still baked of that r600-methpipe agree with.
I have an 8800 and i have a new amd chip.
Wow, 31 posts so far and we're giving you the post of the lifetime award, congrats.
i would like to 100% agree with this point specifically.
you can force AA through the awsomeness of nVidia driver superiority.
thus run HDR and AA. yay, i still get over 200fps
Yeah, you get over 200 fps...in what, return to castle wolfenstein, you could atleast say what game your getting these numbers at and at what resolution. And the awesomenss of the nVidia drivers and their driver team is a site to behold, we've seen 3 driver iterations thus far for the HD2900XT which was released in May and we've seen the same number for 8800 series since Nov...and once again, how about that DX10 SLI.
Lawl, I don't think that could more wrong. I use x16 AA in just about every game I play, even online, and it is most certainly NOT broken. The only time I really ever put my AA down to x4 was when I was on a 30inch monitor playing ALL of my games at 2560x1600 with FPS in the low - mid 100's with system in sig. Sooo GG.
but of course!
the way it is now, its a joke, i'll agree there, no idea whats going on, if its the AA engine being broke and the driver team not knowing how to implement it in the shaders or what, but a possible AA filter that can work with every engine? no problems? end user can customize? hellz yea!
Why do you keep saying its getting better with aa and the new drivers?
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1123/7/page_7_benchmarks_high_quality_aa_and_af/index.html
Article said:
And that is from a site that really LIKES the 2900XT.
Also notice they don't go over 4x AA and don't use any extra things like Multi/Super sampling.
Why do I keep hearing that SLI doesn't work in Vista? I am running it and played Lost Planet DX10 just fine..I am getting 55+ fps at 1920x1200 with the default setting of 4xaa. I know that SLI AA doesn't work, but the normal AA work just fine. I've hosted a LAN party this past weekend and played QuakeWar Beta, COD2, F.E.A.R. Combat, and even the own Unreal Tournament. Everything took advantage of the SLI except Untreal Tournament. What's not working? oh..this is with 158.45 driver.
JackAshley
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Messages
- 729
In all honesty, I dont think it's fair to knock them for not having something that's useless right now. Maybe when there's dx10 games out, then it's right to do so. Seriously though, with the only games out being dx9 games, getting uptight about dx10 features is just picking at nothing.
Try here, I've spent alot of time since January. It still isn't working well in DX9 with either my 7900 GS SLI system or my FX 4500 SLI system. I have personal experience too, it's part of the reason I have two crossfire systems. I'm doing my own testing and SLI still isn't quite up to speed in Vista, definitely doesn't work as well as Crossfire for me.
Also, thanks for posting as it seems half the people posting in this thread have no personal experience with either setup and just like arguing for arguings sake.
As for DX10 benches, granted there are only a handful of games using it now, but I'd atleast like to see a few, it's what the cards where made for and it gives you a rough idea of what kind of performance to expect in some of the games coming out in the next 3-6 months.
silent-circuit
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2005
- Messages
- 16,132
Official driver revisions, sure... but what gamer is running WHQL'd drivers anymore, anyway?
There are new betas leaked at www.laptopvideo2go.com regularly. www.guru3d.com hosts them sometimes, too. Plenty of other places as well, I'm sure.
The difference? We rarely see betas make it to the net from ATI, so we get more regular official revisions, but not /nearly/ the almost constant stream from Nvidia.
Oh -- and I'm not a fanboy. I had an original Radeon, a 9700 Pro, and an X800XT. ATI lost this round, and I'd say they lost the round before last as well, with the last round being something of a stalemate.
When HDR-capable games started coming out I really wished I'd bought that 6800 rather than my X800XT. /Really/ wished.
There's near to no real, native DX10 code out there, yet. Call of Juarez? Patched DX9. Lost Planet? Xbox 360 game ported by a company known for low-performance ports that does not run properly on the 2900HD's last I heard -- things are literally just missing from the render. The pickings are indeed slim, the only good news being that should change in the next couple of months.
From the benchies I have seen for the 2900XT.. it does indeed look like something is not working properly for the AA.
Instead of bashing ATI... wait for some more updated drivers.
ATI seems to be able to actually release drivers that are constantly faster (for the 2900XT anyway). As some others pointed out.. how long did it take Nvidia to get most things working in their drivers for the 8800?
I am not an ATI fanboy.. got my 7900GS that runs anything I throw at it - it is overclocked quite a bit.. but so what.
Oh, and all those singing praise for the Nvidia drivers (beta and whatnot), they have a ton of problems still with them not working properly.... just go to the guru3d forums and have a look.
Yeah.. a lot of games do work properly.. but there are quite a few people who can't get SLI working on a 7950GTX....and other cards.
Instead of bashing ATI... wait for some more updated drivers.
ATI seems to be able to actually release drivers that are constantly faster (for the 2900XT anyway). As some others pointed out.. how long did it take Nvidia to get most things working in their drivers for the 8800?
I am not an ATI fanboy.. got my 7900GS that runs anything I throw at it - it is overclocked quite a bit.. but so what.
Oh, and all those singing praise for the Nvidia drivers (beta and whatnot), they have a ton of problems still with them not working properly.... just go to the guru3d forums and have a look.
Yeah.. a lot of games do work properly.. but there are quite a few people who can't get SLI working on a 7950GTX....and other cards.
FadedSpark
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2005
- Messages
- 7,556
I'm really sick of these threads that are just bashing ATi... the r600 doesn't SUCK, it just isn't on par with it's competition when the AA is cranked up...
Although there is one big thing i would buy an R600 for... multi monitor CF... >_<
Although there is one big thing i would buy an R600 for... multi monitor CF... >_<
kcthebrewer
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2004
- Messages
- 1,728
Their single card drivers for XP have been pretty much 100% since the card was released.
Well, let's be honest - it sucks. There was over a year of speculation and hype leading up to it: hundreds of pairs of Superman underpants were urinated or defecated in, tens of gigabytes of server bandwidth were used to traffic the binary equivalent of !!!!!11!1!oneoneone, and Fuad Abazovic had at least three epileptic fits over the thing. It was supposed to be the new king of the hill, but it's actually not even middle of the hill. It's sort of middlish bottom, and that's only if you accept that your new $400 card can't really run with any kind of acceptable anti-aliasing in any new games. Any of the true, die-hard ATi fans (the kind that continue making !!!!!11!1!oneoneone posts even after a company is dead and gone) will be using the sharp, jagged edges of the polygons in any game that isn't older than 6 months to cut their wrists.
Of course, it's just a fucking videocard, and somehow, we will all find a way to move on - but not before thousands upon thousands of posts on internet forums will be made by the same 20-odd people saying variations of the same 4 things.
Of course, it's just a fucking videocard, and somehow, we will all find a way to move on - but not before thousands upon thousands of posts on internet forums will be made by the same 20-odd people saying variations of the same 4 things.
TheInternet1980
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2005
- Messages
- 810
+1 for hilarity
Godofdestrcution
Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
- Messages
- 556
The 2900xt excells at older crap games because it's made to.
It's got great core and memory clocks, great memory... Then you get to shading functions... And it fails.
When you get to shader extensive games in the future, the 2900xt will be a pile of crap.
It's got great core and memory clocks, great memory... Then you get to shading functions... And it fails.
When you get to shader extensive games in the future, the 2900xt will be a pile of crap.
Particleman
Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2000
- Messages
- 893
It doesn't suck at shader intensive games, it just sucks at shader intensive games with AA on. ATi removing dedicated hardware AA support and opting instead to let shaders do AA calculations was a big design misstep. Every card since the GeForce 3 generation has had hardware AA support and it doesn't use that much die space. Eventually there will be so much shading power out there on future chips, that you can offload AA to shaders but ATi made this step way too early.
To a lot of people AA doesn't matter. I can understand why you would say that. Maybe thats what Ati was trying to do this time...aiming at the ignorant consumers that have no idea, and no desire to learn what Antialiasing is.
My rig in sig was an upgrade from a Celery 2.8 w/ 1gb DDR400 and a 6800GS AGP (128MB). Trust me, I didn't even know what AA was. I mean I read on the box of my 5700GS what it was, but I didn't care. It played my games, thats all that mattered.
But now that I see AA, I am amazed. Very rarely will I play games without AA, and what a difference it makes.
A lot of people just don't care, they just want it to work, and work well. But to me, a serious gamer and system builder, I need a fast card and consistent frame rates while having some serious eye candy.
To people who buy this card, and don't care about AA, the card really isn't that bad, as stated above. In fact, we may see the r600 becoming faster than the GTS/GTX in games without AA. And for a lot of people, thats fine.
Please, no more ''IF AA ARENT ON I DONT TRUST TEH REVIEW. NUBS. LOL 0WN3D'' responses.
~FID
I thought you were talking about DX10, therefore the 8800 series. I don't own the 7900s so I can't say. As far as DX9 under Vista, I also don't have any problem with it. Like I said, I played QuakeWar Beta, F.E.A.R. Combat, COD2, and Unreal Tournament under Vista 32bit and they all work fine. These are all DX9 titles. Call of Juarez the demo, DX9 and DX10 benchmark works fine here as well. So Vista is working fine for me. In Fact, I preferred Vista over XP.
BTW...Tomb Raider Aniversary Demo is a nice looking game too. Have a look if you haven't. Although I hate the game, Eidos did a good job cleaning up the graphics, especially with AA and AF turned up high. SLI works great on it as well.
qft
I'll check it out over the weekend. I too definitely prefer Vista over XP, part of the reason why I think reviews should do atleast a few benchmarks with it. I was talking about DX10 with SLI on the 8800 series because if you read the slizone forums it's just problem after problem. Personally, I've had huge problems with my FX 4500s since there have been no working SLI drivers for them until this month. None of the betas worked for quadros and they finally updated the drivers this month after the prior release in January.
I also have a 8600GT that I bought to check out nVidias DX10 implementation with a Vista MCE box. Granted it won't run like an 8800, but it does fine for a media center at 1366x768. Just waiting for a non-burner blu-ray drive to come out for under $200 to test the HD decoding portion of the card. Atleast [H] liked that card so I won't get crucified here for saying I have one.
Uberhitzung
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 120
thank you
Hate to break it to you, but the X1800XT and X1900XT were both better in IQ, and speed than the 7800GTX and 7900GTX. Especially X1800XT>7800GTX.
snowysnowcones
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2006
- Messages
- 1,108
[offtopic]
Dear ATI,
Thank you for releasing a card that sucked. Now, I am no longer such a fanboy of your products. I have seen the light in realizing that there are two graphic card companies out there for me to choose from. Again, thank you. I now consider your competitors products when I need new hardware.
From,
-Snowy
[/offtopic]
Dear ATI,
Thank you for releasing a card that sucked. Now, I am no longer such a fanboy of your products. I have seen the light in realizing that there are two graphic card companies out there for me to choose from. Again, thank you. I now consider your competitors products when I need new hardware.
From,
-Snowy
[/offtopic]
Welcome to the Nvidia fanboi club.
JackAshley
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Messages
- 729
Fanboism is so economically taxing. Why not just buy the best card in your price range at the time of purchase, regardless of brand? (with a bit of leeway for brand warranties/etc).