2900XT + Review MB Used

To Dan_D:
Thanks again for taking the time to explain to me, Dan. I do sincerely appreciate it! You're not the best person to ask simply because you didn't author the ATI review, but one thing I've noticed with performance GPUs is that performance seems to scale in terms of resolution differently between grenerations and architectures. So sometimes we see a GPU actually perform better at a higher resolution in a given game than a lower one. In terms of data you've seen in your work, does this happen between CPU's sharing a common architecture and equal cache, such as the E6600 and the X6800?

As far as managing heat production, I know what you mean. Chongqing is a furnace in the summer. For a few weeks last summer we were hotter than Iraq, to give you an idea. I imagine, perhaps in error, most people with an SFF for LANs and such would take the performance hit and step down one rung to get a card that didn't output so much heat.

But I am digressing into the power consumption/heat argument which doesn't have anything to do with motherboards. Right? I mean, the 680i's great power needs compared to other chipsets isn't a factor in this conversation.

Thanks again, Mr. Dobrowolski! By the way, off topic. We're getting awfully close to the 1333 fsb Conroe's, aren't we? Three different vendors here have told me Intel has stopped shipping the higher-end processors (here in China high-end is E6600-E6700'ish), and that the 1333 procs will take their place in a few weeks. It'll be interesting to see you work your magic with those and a board supporting them!

phide:
As for spelling appreciated: new keyboard, stiff keys. At least it's obvious I intended to spell it correctly, and if the largest fault to be found in my post is a slip of the finger, then that's not so bad. But, "it is what it is", as I'm sure some would say. As for asking some not to post, it's because I would have liked to keep the observation (not hypothesis, as you and others repeatedly try to twist) and discussion clearer. The other less suitable option is using Hardforum's PM feature like a five dollar whore, which is probably not what the [H] is paying for. It's obvious that some folks don't want a clear discussion of some issues, and thus are out to 'pee in their neighbor's well'. I really don't want to endorse, or put myself in the position of endorsing, a particular review, as people will start arguing about that review instead of discussing what I might have noticed or might be in error about. As for your comments about power consumption: the [H] goes to great pains to avoid reviewing based on people's pre-conceived assumptions. And quite frankly, I also didn't see an "Assumption Satisfaction" entry in any of their graphs, either. It's wrong to blame ATI for not fulfilling someone else's preconceived notions. Now, if ATI had come out beforehand and unequivocably promised the consumer they'd deliver the performance at less Nvidia's heat/power usage, then it would be a fair issue. Now if the gameplay numbers in the review "are what they are", then power consumption doesn't matter. There is a practice of some to count the numbers when the GTS scores a bench, but then dismiss them with an irrelevant (to the numbers) mention of power consumption/heat when the 2900XT scores a bench, which comes off as seeming to imply the gameplay numbers 'aren't what they are'. It's wrong to confuse the two seperate issues.
 
After playing around with the 2900xt on a ATI motherboard for a while now, I have came to a couple conclusions.

1) The drivers have serious issues, basically in every game I have tried there has been non rendering issues (HL2 entire buildings not being rendered). Also enabling and disabling Crossfire will most likely force a reboot even with a work around it is 70/30.

2) The hardware is flawed but good, if they can fix the driver issue, the 2900xt will be a solid card. It may not be a Nvidia 8800 killer, but you will not regret buying the card.

3) It is hot, it does take alot of power, and if it wasn't for the fan in my computer room I am sure it would be loud also.




Disclamer I am a self proclamed AMD homer
 
To Dan_D:
Thanks again for taking the time to explain to me, Dan. I do sincerely appreciate it! You're not the best person to ask simply because you didn't author the ATI review, but one thing I've noticed with performance GPUs is that performance seems to scale in terms of resolution differently between grenerations and architectures. So sometimes we see a GPU actually perform better at a higher resolution in a given game than a lower one. In terms of data you've seen in your work, does this happen between CPU's sharing a common architecture and equal cache, such as the E6600 and the X6800?

You are correct in that some graphics cards actually perform better at higher resolutions. CPUs seem to scale pretty linearly at 640x480 which is why those sites are still conducted today. In terms of higher resolutions there is no difference most of the time until you get into SLI 8800GTX machines running at 2560x1600. The differences aren't necessarily earth shattering there and the difference between say an E6700 and X6800 is almost zero. Now the difference between say an FX-62 and X6800 are pretty large in some instances.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI2MiwxLCwzMA==

The article linked above shows the differences between the FX-62 and X6800 in games at high resolutions.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMyLDEsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

This article is old, but it does show the differences between processor that are the same aside from differences in frequency. The difference between two processors in games will only be apparent when the clock speed difference is extremely large.

As far as managing heat production, I know what you mean. Chongqing is a furnace in the summer. For a few weeks last summer we were hotter than Iraq, to give you an idea. I imagine, perhaps in error, most people with an SFF for LANs and such would take the performance hit and step down one rung to get a card that didn't output so much heat.

While this may be true there are alot of people who build their SFF PCs with 8800GTS or even GTX cards. I've read several threads about SFF PC enthusiasts searching for SLI capable motherboards for their SFF PC. It would seem to me that right now the HD 2900XT would make a bad choice for those individuals with SFF PCs given the lower wattage of PSUs that type of PC typically uses combined with poor airflow given typical SFF case design. Granted I am sure there are some people who have SFF PCs that are more than capable of using the card in question, but the differences outside of performance are something that each potential buyer of components to be used in SFF machines needs to evaluate carefully.

But I am digressing into the power consumption/heat argument which doesn't have anything to do with motherboards. Right? I mean, the 680i's great power needs compared to other chipsets isn't a factor in this conversation.

The power needs of the NVIDIA chipsets are greater. To what degree I am not entirely sure, but I would suspect that the difference isn't earth shattering.

Thanks again, Mr. Dobrowolski! By the way, off topic. We're getting awfully close to the 1333 fsb Conroe's, aren't we? Three different vendors here have told me Intel has stopped shipping the higher-end processors (here in China high-end is E6600-E6700'ish), and that the 1333 procs will take their place in a few weeks. It'll be interesting to see you work your magic with those and a board supporting them!

Thanks. We are getting close and I do look forward to working with the new CPUs when they are available. I'm also very interested in AMD's Barcelona core. It has been awhile since I've worked with an AMD processor based motherboard and I look forward to seeing what kind of technology and performance it offers.
 
Lord, Barcelona vs. Penryn! That'll dwarf this whole 8800 vs. 2900XT shindig we've been sipping tea over. And thanks again for the info, Dan_D. I know I come off as an arrogant ass (largely because I am) but still it's always nice to learn just how much I don't yet know.

Best Regards
 
I'm an AMD guy myself but sadly, I predict that Penryn will pwn Barcelona because of its smaller 45nm cores.
 
More than likely, Sir. I'm a long time AMD man myself, but a guy can't wait forever so around 5 months ago I made the leap to C2D. Hell of a processor, and overclocking is more fun. As for the next generation, it looks like we'll have a feast of choices in front of us, and don't be surprised if you see my sig sporting two rigs, one for each flavor. More than likely with an ATI HD 2900XT inside each, as the latest rounds of net reviews are using the newer driver and posting better performance against the GTS. Driver's still not up to snuff, but my card hasn't arrived, either. :p
 
After playing around with the 2900xt on a ATI motherboard for a while now, I have came to a couple conclusions.

1) The drivers have serious issues, basically in every game I have tried there has been non rendering issues (HL2 entire buildings not being rendered). Also enabling and disabling Crossfire will most likely force a reboot even with a work around it is 70/30.

2) The hardware is flawed but good, if they can fix the driver issue, the 2900xt will be a solid card. It may not be a Nvidia 8800 killer, but you will not regret buying the card.

3) It is hot, it does take alot of power, and if it wasn't for the fan in my computer room I am sure it would be loud also.




Disclamer I am a self proclamed AMD homer

Interesting. I notice that no one else in this thread commented on your evaluation of the hardware you actually own and have tested yourself. Thank you for an objective opinion.

It appears that most of the reviews are not wrong; it is hot, requires a lot of power and is not an 8800 killer.

I hope the drivers do get straightened out. Despite the flaws, you seem satisfied with your purchase. In the end, that is what counts. All of the other "does it !!win!!" type silliness doesn't really matter if you are happy owning it.

Phide - Your caustic wit once again delivered ;). #39 was worth the whole thread. :cool:
 
my 2900 will go into an nvidia motherboard this weekend. i will post a limited review hopefully sunday.
 
I trust you're right, JD. But it's still engineered into the chipset, the removal was software only. And Linkboost is only an example, anyway. My point simply is that a chipset designed with in-built optimizations for one brand of GPU isn't the most neutral platform on which to gather one's data concerning a different brand's GPU. And many reviews reflect this opinion. When another platform that is not optimized for a specific brand of GPU was used, the data gatherd was notably (not drastically, only notably) different. It warrants consideration by many minds, not just one.

Hey genius, what would that do for NVIDIA's reptutation as soon as the general public found out (as if it were that hard to plug in a card and check) that nvidia was intentionally negatively affecting the performance of a competitors products? That would definitely not sit well with people and nvidia would lose market share. Same goes for crossfire motherboards.
 
I trust you're right, JD. But it's still engineered into the chipset, the removal was software only. And Linkboost is only an example, anyway. My point simply is that a chipset designed with in-built optimizations for one brand of GPU isn't the most neutral platform on which to gather one's data concerning a different brand's GPU. And many reviews reflect this opinion. When another platform that is not optimized for a specific brand of GPU was used, the data gatherd was notably (not drastically, only notably) different. It warrants consideration by many minds, not just one.

Uhh frequencies are always software only...
 
Hey genius, what would that do for NVIDIA's reptutation as soon as the general public found out (as if it were that hard to plug in a card and check) that nvidia was intentionally negatively affecting the performance of a competitors products? That would definitely not sit well with people and nvidia would lose market share. Same goes for crossfire motherboards.

It was never implied or stated overtly that Nvidia was deliberately designing their hardware to diminish the performance of an opposite's products, though both Nvidia and ATI (now AMD) do design their software to be incompatible with contender's products, through SLI and Crossfire.

Uhh frequencies are always software only...

Really? Because she always tells me it is your wares that are frequently soft. Uhh well, it only goes to show how often people are misquoted... No, no, don't get up. You just hang.
 
I don't believe the hypocrisy exists as you understand it. The issue many of us have with the XT is not so much that it consumes a great deal of power, but that the additional consumption doesn't translate into better performance or better image quality. The efficiency of the architecture, quite simply, seems to be unfathomably poor. If the XT had delivered the performance we were expecting from its 512-bit bus, 320 SPs and high TDP, I don't believe anyone (or at least very few people) would have thought much of the power consumption.

Not to call you directly into question but here is the counter point to your statement. The issue that he probably had (as its the issue I have and I am sure others feel the same way) is certain people here were very very vocal about the power usage when Kyle posted them many weeks ago. Before any reviews (official) surfaced. Back then it was all rumors and guessing. Well fast forward today and we find out that the power/heat usage is there but the speed is not (yet if ever). So in hind sight they were right, but they could have been wrong. And the fact that they were bitching about power draw before we knew anything official on specs/speed and yet had monster systems of their own, then that does make it a bit hypocritical. I would alos like to point out that not every one that said something was a SLI users, ect but we had many threads that went into many pages into the issue back then… Anyways TGIF :)
 
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