IHS removal without telling the buyer

S

ss284

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2000
Messages
1,139
I purchased a core 2 duo cpu some time ago, and it should (hopefully) arrive within a couple of days. The problem is, I just happened upon some for sale postings on another forum from the said seller talking about the removal of an IHS from a chip with the exact same stepping. While I can't be sure that this was the particular chip he is selling to me, it was advertised as a retail chip that had never been overclocked when I bought it. If this is the case, and the other chip he was describing just happened to be another chip he was also selling, then fine.

However, if he did actually remove and reattach the IHS from the chip he sold me, the warranty is gone, and who knows how the IHS removal and reattachment has affected the chip. While it was never mentioned, having the IHS removed is a pretty big thing to leave out of the description.

Am I wrong to think that IHS removal is something that should be indicated in the description, especially when selling a retail CPU?
 
The seller should definately notifly you of anything of the matter you have been describing. However, the item has not arrived yet, and until it does you really have no right to be doing this. If the problem arises with a chip later on, then it will be the sellers responsibility to correct it, but at this point all you have to back yourself up is some speculation. Wait until the shipment arrives, and then if there are any problems confront the seller, but if everything is gravy, leave it alone.
P.S. it is 3 am and I am tired as fook, sorry if I am not making any sence.
 
a lot of times people are borderline dealers and have batches of chips from the same stepping. until your chip comes, you should just relax. you don't want to cry wolf (and it's a good thing you didn't name names). i assume that the seller had heatware or some sort of reputation?
 
Thanks for the advice. Its pretty late where I'm at now as well. I'll give it some time and wait until I get the chip. Is there an easy way to check if the IHS is removed?
 
Well, after finding his AIM on the other FS forum I messaged him about it. He actually did remove the IHS and somehow reattached it. Hes offering a refund, but I'm still out almost 2 weeks of time waiting for this processor, and I still have pay to ship the thing back.
 
I'm almost tempted just to keep the chip if it works since I don't really have the time or desire to look for another chip.
 
This is kind of a tough one, huh? It's a serious omission in the description and so pertinent it's hard to believe it's an accidental oversight. Then, it's also hard to believe the IHS was removed on a chip that was 'never overclocked.' I can't see why else you'd go to the hassle and risk of removing the IHS EXCEPT to overclock it.

More to the point, how was it reattached? Does it make good core contact? All in all, I'd like to see the seller offer a partial refund to you as an accomodation for the lack of warranty and the risk you'd assume by keeping it. That would be reasonable..
 
ss284 said:
Well, after finding his AIM on the other FS forum I messaged him about it. He actually did remove the IHS and somehow reattached it. Hes offering a refund, but I'm still out almost 2 weeks of time waiting for this processor, and I still have pay to ship the thing back.
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IMO his behavior is completely unacceptable. He obviously knew of his omission and I find it pretty uncommon to remove the IHS and not OC.

I would have him refund and refuse delivery to avoid return shipping charges.

Please PM me with his info so I can add him to my DNT list.


Good luck with resolution.
 
Absinthe said:
IMO his behavior is completely unacceptable. He obviously knew of his omission and I find it pretty uncommon to remove the IHS and not OC.

I would have him refund and refuse delivery to avoid return shipping charges.

Please PM me with his info so I can add him to my DNT list.


Good luck with resolution.
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Yes, I agree... This is totally unethical and unacceptable. If he told the CPU is never overclocked and turned out that the IHS is removed, which is a usual thing done to help overclock, then he blatantly lied.

I suggest you refuse the parcel as he already admitted this, ask for a refund. However, if he accepted to refund and accept the returned parcel, give a neutral with "Item with wrong description of state". If he give you some hell, then give a negative.

ss284, the C2D IHS is usually soldered for the E6xxx series so it's very hard to reattach it without doing some damage since it involve using heat to reattach.
 
And I imagine high temps under additional voltage would be the only motivator for removing an ihs...
 
not a bad thing to have the IHS off on these CPUs but is bad he didnt tell you about it and its obviosuly been overclocked. personaly Id see how it clocks when it arrives unless you are not an overclocker. in that case refuse as suggested.
yeah the IHS is soldered onto the cores on these. Id imagine he has reattached it with some epoxy rather than resoldering it so as long as he hasnt cracked the core with a heatsink, it will prob run fine.
 
ss284 said:
Well, after finding his AIM on the other FS forum I messaged him about it. He actually did remove the IHS and somehow reattached it. Hes offering a refund, but I'm still out almost 2 weeks of time waiting for this processor, and I still have pay to ship the thing back.
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You are owed a full refund, and he should pay for return shipping......
It is obvious that he was not completely honest in the listing.....



get your refund before you refuse delivery, or you just might end up with nothing.....
 
Well, id definitely say the first thing that should have been listed next to the cpu is something like "IHS REMOVED" Maybe he is inexperienced but that is fairly important imo. I definitely would never want a cpu that has the IHS removed.

I guess its up to you but....bleh. That is kind of sneaky of him.
 
I guess I will wait till I receive the CPU. It was shipped usps priority so I cant exactly refuse the package.
 
Crosshairs said:
get your refund before you refuse delivery, or you just might end up with nothing.....
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I always find myself agreeing with Crosshairs. :p

Technically, you can't leave heat since no goods were exchanged, but it would be helpful to post his username so it's on the record (after you receive your refund).
 
as for USPS priority, you can refuse it at the box, tell them to send it back when they hand you the package from the box, thats how you refuse it! :)
Get your money back first though
 
Definitely. But if it works, and there arent any issues, who really cares?

But I would like to know if this was a way to keep the truth hidden so he could sell it easier..
 
For me, I would not want to ship it back and all that, too much work and time waisted. I would ask trader to refund some of the amount that you paid and keep the chip. That way you will be happy :)
 
thunderstruck! said:
Technically, you can't leave heat since no goods were exchanged, but it would be helpful to post his username so it's on the record (after you receive your refund).
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Techincally, this is incorrect. Money has been exchaged, the goods are suposedly in route to the buyer and heat is definantly in order. The whole purpose of heat is to be a reference. If everyone just ommited to leaving heat when a deal goes south, what is the purpose?

ss284 said:
... it was advertised as a retail chip that had never been overclocked when I bought it.

... the warranty is gone, and who knows how the IHS removal and reattachment has affected the chip. While it was never mentioned, having the IHS removed is a pretty big thing to leave out of the description.

Am I wrong to think that IHS removal is something that should be indicated in the description, especially when selling a retail CPU?
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Absolutely this should have been disclosed, especially noting that it was advertised as retail.

The first red flag is the amount of time that has expired without receipt of goods, not that this warrants neg heat, but definantly would be of concern. Higher end hardware often does not appriciate as it ages, not to mention you are without what you paid for.

ss284 said:
Well, after finding his AIM on the other FS forum I messaged him about it. He actually did remove the IHS and somehow reattached it. Hes offering a refund, but I'm still out almost 2 weeks of time waiting for this processor, and I still have pay to ship the thing back.
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Second is the lack of disclosure. A x600 IHS doesnt just "pop" off accidentally, it takes a decent amount of pressure, not to mention a decent amount of heat via a torch, to seperate the solder that is sealing the IHS to the chip. Pulling off the IHS is not something one would be very likely to forget and definantly has the potential to effect the chip. Not to mention, the warranty is, without a doubt, void.

If this was an HONEST mistake vs shanigans and the seller offered a full refund plus return shipping costs then neg heat would NOT be in order. Neutral and even Positive, depending on how he handles the issue. If I was in your shoes and the seller openly admitted error and did everything in his power to rectify, I would leave positive heat. Honesty, responsiblity and follow through are what make a good trader. Accidents do happen and he may be swimming in a pool CPUs and lost track of which one this was. But, you were able to determine which one he was selling and confirmed via AIM. From your description of events, it appears that he would be placing the burden of return shipping on you. Any action by the seller to weasle out of his responsibility is out of line.

Crosshairs said:
You are owed a full refund, and he should pay for return shipping......
It is obvious that he was not completely honest in the listing.....

get your refund before you refuse delivery, or you just might end up with nothing.....
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Agreed.

jordan12 said:
Definitely. But if it works, and there arent any issues, who really cares?

But I would like to know if this was a way to keep the truth hidden so he could sell it easier..
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Removing the IHS, without a doubt, voids the retail warranty and can definantly have an effect on the chip. But also to note, the Intel warranty is valid only for the "original purchaser". Something smells rotten in Demark with the whole situation and I would imagine this was intentionally left out. It was advertisted as retail and NEVER OCED. To stipulate it was not OCed but yet fail to mention that the IHS was removed? Bah.

ivan_gromov said:
For me, I would not want to ship it back and all that, too much work and time waisted. I would ask trader to refund some of the amount that you paid and keep the chip. That way you will be happy :)
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^ This is always an option.


ss284 said:
I guess I will wait till I receive the CPU. It was shipped usps priority so I cant exactly refuse the package.
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Yes you can refuse the package, no matter what usps method he used. To note, a USPS Priortiy package was delivered while I was away and the next day I when the mail carrier arrived, I requested the package be returned to sender.. No questions asked, they returned to sender and the original delivery confirmation info doccumented this. Get your refund FIRST and then have the package returned to sender. If your seller is honest, he will instantly refund your money for the issue, not to mention offer to pay the return ship. Seeing that he has failed to perform on numerous accounts, I would be a bit skeptical. Im glad to hear he has offered to refund. As long as he honors the refund, it sounds like it is now up to you to make a decision.

Sorry for the longwinded post but I found myself in the same situation and it brings up the frustration I have dealt with.

Good luck.
 
jordan12 said:
Definitely. But if it works, and there arent any issues, who really cares?

But I would like to know if this was a way to keep the truth hidden so he could sell it easier..
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How about a voided warrenty? How about the seller said the chip was NOT overclocked? (Still belive that?:rolleyes: ) How about between the removal and re-installing the IHS the chip was destroyed/damaged/degraded somehow, such as in thermal transfer? How about the buyer would have had a chance to consider not paying what he did, or to refuse outright? How about this is such a clear and basic thing that should have been disclosed upfront, it shows a penchent for deception on part of the seller? How about if the seller was never confronted about it, he would have never said anything? Sounds like he was trying to slide one by.......
 
Well hopefully I'll get the chip today, two weeks after I paid for it. Who knows if I'll even get it.
 
Me: 11:45:18 AM: why did you remove the IHS and how did you reattach it?
11:45:29 AM: i removed for testing temps
11:45:35 AM: it wasnt soldered on
Me: 11:45:55 AM: was there a thermal pad or paste between the die and ihs?
11:45:58 AM: super glue at the edges (a small amount) to get it back on
11:46:07 AM: there was paste
Me: 11:46:26 AM: and it works perfectly fine, and you never actually overclocked it?
11:46:44 AM: i tested a mild overclock
11:46:50 AM: 3.0
Me: 11:47:07 AM: stock voltage or what
11:47:21 AM: 1.32 i think
Me: 11:47:29 AM: you realize this is basically going against everything you told me
Me: 11:47:55 AM: if I had time I would return the chip, but I dont really have the time because I need a chip for this weekend
Me: 11:48:34 AM: all my components have been sitting here for a while waiting for your chip, just to find out that it was overclocked, and had its IHS removed
Me: 11:48:45 AM: due to the not so great overclock
11:49:14 AM: due to a not so great overclock lol
11:49:20 AM: i didnt even try
11:49:42 AM: ThaWaxShop signed off (was Online)
 
Wow, just send the chip back and demand refund. Discregard what I have said before, If I had the same IM conversation, I would not even accept the package, plus it has been 2 weeks since you shipped. In most cases it should get there in 2-3 days,
 
ss284 said:
Me: 11:45:18 AM: why did you remove the IHS and how did you reattach it?
11:45:29 AM: i removed for testing temps
11:45:35 AM: it wasnt soldered on
Me: 11:45:55 AM: was there a thermal pad or paste between the die and ihs?
11:45:58 AM: super glue at the edges (a small amount) to get it back on
11:46:07 AM: there was paste
Me: 11:46:26 AM: and it works perfectly fine, and you never actually overclocked it?
11:46:44 AM: i tested a mild overclock
11:46:50 AM: 3.0
Me: 11:47:07 AM: stock voltage or what
11:47:21 AM: 1.32 i think
Me: 11:47:29 AM: you realize this is basically going against everything you told me
Me: 11:47:55 AM: if I had time I would return the chip, but I dont really have the time because I need a chip for this weekend
Me: 11:48:34 AM: all my components have been sitting here for a while waiting for your chip, just to find out that it was overclocked, and had its IHS removed
Me: 11:48:45 AM: due to the not so great overclock
11:49:14 AM: due to a not so great overclock lol
11:49:20 AM: i didnt even try
11:49:42 AM: ThaWaxShop signed off (was Online)
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Yeah, he just made my DNT list....The guy is an outright liar...no doubt about it.......

And you paid 2 weeks ago????...This guy has no clue how to trade successfully and has proved it in this transaction .....
 
Yeah, hes lucky im not an admin. Id ban him. Thats ridiculous.


And, How much do you want to bet, he is even lying about testing it. Ill bet you, if you try to OC the chip, youll find out it doesnt overclock great. Which is most likely why hes getting rid of it. Im sorry but, you dont remove the IHS and void warranty, only to NOT TEST IT. rofl. People who take the IHS off are serious about overclocking, to see him say, he only tried a mild OC is absurd. Im sure he tested it to the max and found out it doesnt do well.
 
I Just quickly looked thru the thread but did anyone PM him a link to this thread Just to see if he'll post his side or anything?

That sucks dude :( Hope you can get it figured out and its nor a total loss
 
On Heatware there's 2 thawaxshop's. One of them has 14 heat and the other has 0. Which one did he give you and did you confirm it?
 
Yeah thats funny. They are both clearly the same person since they are both located in Pennsylvania. And the email address on the zero heat account matches one of his alias' on a forum of the other account.

It looks like hes a decent trader from the heat but....lying about ocing and having an ihs removed on a cpu isnt a good sign.
 
Well he agreed to a refund + shipping, but needs time to transfer the money to his account. I guess he already used the money I paid earlier. We will see how it turns out by next week.
 
Did you even get the cpu yet after 2 weeks? Not having the cpu in hand and being promised a full refund + shipping doesnt sound too promising.
 
So on top of all this, its been 2 weeks and still no cpu? that doesnt sound good. It does not take 2 weeks to ship a package coast to coast. Im in CA and ship packages to New York all the time, and it takes like 3-4 days priority mail. :p Normal ground of course, im sure it slower but bleh.
 
Not to mention he has a few posts on here bragging about removing the IHS from a C2D....might be the very chip he sold you...

do a search..you will find them.....they are in the Intel forum....
You might even find him talking about the OC on that chip......
 
Retsam said:
So on top of all this, its been 2 weeks and still no cpu? that doesnt sound good. It does not take 2 weeks to ship a package coast to coast. Im in CA and ship packages to New York all the time, and it takes like 3-4 days priority mail. :p Normal ground of course, im sure it slower but bleh.
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I live in MD. He "shipped" priority from PA. It should have been here yesterday or the day before. Yet I still have nothing.
 
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