Cooling the beast.... (opinions requested)

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vagabond142

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
138
Hello all :D

I've started to save up towards my next gaming/power rig, which will be built (HOPEFULLY!) in mid-may. The big thing I need to figure out, however, is how to cool the mother.... first, some specs!

-Core 2 Duo E6420 or E6600 (the goal is a stable overclock, either via voltage or fsb or combination of both, to ~3 ghz)
-Asus P5N32-E SLI (680i chipset)
-2-4 GB of PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) ram (leaning towards Crucial Ballistix 2x1gb kits)
-2x eVGA 8800GTS's in SLI
-1x 80gb SATA, 2x 500gb SATA (80 is control drive, 500's are storage)
-Coolermaster Stacker 830 Evo *OR* 832 case
-Enermax Galaxy 1 kW PSU

Now... as I have it planned, here is my cooling solution:

-For the CPU, I will have a dedicated water chiller, namely the CoolIt Eliminator. I want my CPU on its own dedicated loop.
-GPUs will be force fed cold air directly using the 830/832 fan rack, with both slots adjacent the vid cards having 120 mm medium CFM fans
-I will have the top fan mount with a 120mm fan, the front with as many fans as will fit, and the side panel with two fans dedicated to cooling the SLI cards.

In the future, when I have a bit more cash and a bit more experience with the harder-core aspects of computer cooling, I plan on having a dedicated water loop for the GPUs. I still want a lot of airflow through the case, though, because of the v-regs that need airflow to cool em, as well as the passive heatsinks on the North and South Bridges.


I would love to hear some ideas/comments/constructive criticisms about this theoretical build. Might as well iron out the kinks before building :) I'm pretty set on the Eliminator cooler, as I've seen one in use on an otherwise aircooled E6600 system and my buddy was running stable at 3.3 GHz without any problems, and the max temp was only ~37 C after loading the CPU for 2 hours straight
 
If you are thinking of getting more out of your system in the future then I suggest getting a real watercooler instead of that thing...... At low clocks, it will give you great temps because its using tecs but once you start raising the vcore the unit will be too small to keep up...... If you want to watercool, do it right and buy everything seperaty, never buy a complete set.... It will be better in the long run.....

Buying that thing is like buying a Dell ......
 
What would you suggest then for a dedicated CPU loop? (ie parts, tubing size, etc) This will be my first system with any form of liquid cooling at all in it :eek:

Also, once I get the GTS's in SLI, I'll be watercooling those too (when I can afford it, but I think the air cooling will keep 'er cool for a while until I can get waterblocks and equipment), so I'll have a seperate loop for them because I KNOW that G80's put out a cubic crap-ton of heat.
 
you dont particularly need two loops for all that, you might see a few (maybe 5C ?) degrees lower over all, but you will have double the headaches of bleeding/filling two loops and buying the extra pump and radiator and hardware. the only reason i would use two loops is if im having flow problems going thru many components. a strait water system with a normal radiator will give you the most overclock-ability as compared to using TECs. thermo electric systems are great up to a point. instead of temperature going up consistantly in relation to overclock, once you hit the max of a TEC, your system overheats. it cannot remove any more heat and it will begin to back up into the water. if a TEC is rated to remove 200 watts of heat, and you have a 100 watt system, great. if you up the voltage a little and go over that 200 watts tho, your screwed. the heat will stay in the water and the temps will keep increasing untill you turn off you computer and let it cool down or lower the overclock. not to mention the rediculous amount of power you need to run TECs, and their inefficency.

with a regular radiator there is no end point where heat builds up. it will always radiate heat in relation to airflow and ambient temps. the hotter your system and the colder your room, the more efficent it becomes.

i would read the forums and build a regular water system yourself, though petra sells some nice kits if you would rather. these are not the run of the mill, all in one crap you normaly find, he does a nice job when putting these kits together
http://www.petrastechshop.com/index.html

you probably want a 1/2" system, most people use 1/2" now a days. as long as you have a nice radiator (3x120mm or 4x120mm) with some decent CFM fans, it will handle both your CPU and two G80s no problem.
 
Okay... I'm guessing with a CM stacker 830 evo the best option would be a 3x120 rad in the front bays? I'm only going to have three internal hard drives, and one optical drive... so I'm thinking that would leave enough room at the bottom of the case for a radiator... then again, I've never modded a stacker specifically for watercooling, actually I've never touched an 830 or 832 in my life o_O

I'm a newbie when it comes to watercooling, so I would prefer for a kit style of package so that I know that someone that knows what they're doing has put it together so a newb like me can assemble it without having to worry about the small stuff :eek:

I'll definitely take a peek at Petra's and see what's there :D Thanks for the link

EDIT: http://www.petrastechshop.com/pecosliba.html <--- This look like a decent kit? o_O I want to keep my cooling below $400 Canadian (~$350 US), as I have money to cool with, just not goobles of it :p I'm just a lil worried about such a small GPU sink o_O
 
IMHO i think you don t need water cooling for these video card in sli ... just use a thermalright hr-03 plus ... an i already use a coolit system for my cpu ... so just take a look to those pic's

2922155060090591774TTKJSu_fs.jpg


2980147700090591774PdxmVJ_ph.jpg


so you see that my cpu is overclocking to 3.6 stable (69% of overclock) and check the temp so the coolit unit just make a great job here ...

for the thermalright preformence i will check this when i got mine ... hope this will help !!! :cool:
 
Though Im watercooled right now, Ive been out of the loop when it comes to newer stuff but these seems to be the favs right now.....

Fusion cpu block
Thermochill 3x120 rad
swiftech pump

Buy some clearflex 1/2" tubing and your done..... it might seem intimidating at first but theres really nothing to it..... Start with just your cpu to make it simple and when youre more comfortable then watercool your gpus..... After you built this you will never look at stuff like coolit anymore.... trust me on that...

PS: Im not here to bash Coolit :D
 
Everyone here is talking about 1/2" ID tubing. When did 7/16" tubing go out the window? For a while it was all the rave (and I still prefer it).
 
Keep in mind that I DO NOT plan to overclock anything other than the CPU (and, concurrently with a 1:1, the memory a bit). The GPUs will stay stock, which is why I was thinking aircooling was fine for them o_O That's why the Eliminator (@ ~$200 canadian) is so enticing. And I quite honestly don't plan to have the cpu putting out 200W of heat o_O! :eek: :eek:

I just want to watercool/waterchill my CPU, as that's going to be the only part in the system that is gonna be pushed above and beyond stock with any sort of violence or vigor. and it's not even a massive overclock, just to 3 GHz or thereabouts (2.93 ghz on a E6420 would be just dandy for me).
 
If 3ghz is all you want then the coolit will do a great job but totally not needed..... If you have $200 to blow then grab it but the stock cooler will do the job..... Your temps will be alot lower with the coolit but without looking at the temps, there wont be a difference.....
 
vagabond142 said:
Hello all :D

I've started to save up towards my next gaming/power rig, which will be built (HOPEFULLY!) in mid-may. The big thing I need to figure out, however, is how to cool the mother.... first, some specs!

-Core 2 Duo E6420 or E6600 (the goal is a stable overclock, either via voltage or fsb or combination of both, to ~3 ghz)
-Asus P5N32-E SLI (680i chipset)
-2-4 GB of PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) ram (leaning towards Crucial Ballistix 2x1gb kits)
-2x eVGA 8800GTS's in SLI
-1x 80gb SATA, 2x 500gb SATA (80 is control drive, 500's are storage)
-Coolermaster Stacker 830 Evo *OR* 832 case
-Enermax Galaxy 850W PSU

Now... as I have it planned, here is my cooling solution:

-For the CPU, I will have a dedicated water chiller, namely the CoolIt Eliminator. I want my CPU on its own dedicated loop.
-GPUs will be force fed cold air directly using the 830/832 fan rack, with both slots adjacent the vid cards having 120 mm medium CFM fans
-I will have the top fan mount with a 120mm fan, the front with as many fans as will fit, and the side panel with two fans dedicated to cooling the SLI cards.

In the future, when I have a bit more cash and a bit more experience with the harder-core aspects of computer cooling, I plan on having a dedicated water loop for the GPUs. I still want a lot of airflow through the case, though, because of the v-regs that need airflow to cool em, as well as the passive heatsinks on the North and South Bridges.


I would love to hear some ideas/comments/constructive criticisms about this theoretical build. Might as well iron out the kinks before building :) I'm pretty set on the Eliminator cooler, as I've seen one in use on an otherwise aircooled E6600 system and my buddy was running stable at 3.3 GHz without any problems, and the max temp was only ~37 C after loading the CPU for 2 hours straight
Click to expand...

If you're going water cooler master 830 is a crappy case for the build. How do I know hehe? Got an empty one sitting here right now that I replaced with a much more spacious TJ07. If you want mounting flexibility, etc. I wouldn't buy that case.
 
masaville said:
If you're going water cooler master 830 is a crappy case for the build. How do I know hehe? Got an empty one sitting here right now that I replaced with a much more spacious TJ07. If you want mounting flexibility, etc. I wouldn't buy that case.
Click to expand...

Amen

Yeah OP, especially if you're going SLI. You'll NEED a triple radiator for those guys (if you heed my advice and add the CPU to the loop that is).

The CoolIT eliminator can't really keep up with a vastly overclocked CPU...
 
Well, I do appreciate all the input thus far :D I am taking it all into consideration :D

Another aspect of looking at the eliminator is that this case will be carted off to 3 or 4 lan parties each year, and by keeping everything internal, I don't have to worry too much about knocking an external rad-box off in transit. Also, as I've said and Luihed replied to, I'm not really planning on pushing the boundaries of time and space here, I just want to alleviate a little of the CPU bottleneck, so yeah, ~3 GHz from an E6420 or ~3.2 GHz from an E6600.

Then again, I do have ~ a month before I build, so there is still time to debate, discuss and plan :)

As to the case, as I've stated above, one of the main reasons I like the stacker 830 or 832 is the fact that it has MASSIVE airflow. If I'm air cooling everything else but the CPU, then airflow is good :D I mean, the TJ07 is a SUPER nice case... but it's also damned near $400 o_O! The Cooler Master seems to be a great case for the budget I have.

Like I've said, my only plans are for CPU overclocking, and not massive overclocking at that. Pricing things out, the Eliminator costs as much as a higher-end CPU-only water loop (Swiftech H20-120 premium kit). SO now my question becomes.... which is better? I know the dedicated loop would take up a lot more space, but as the pump would be the only electrical bit, it would probably be more efficient.... on the flipside, however, the Eliminator would deliver colder temperatures due to 3 TEC's chilling the water. GAAAAHHH!!! It's so hard to decide T_T
 
I think the eliminator is the one to consider ...
1- easy installation
2- no maintenence
3- pelletier cooling
4- very good customer service
5- al in one inside the case
6- a little bit noisy (92x38 delta fan) at full speed !!!

and i think when you see the cpu temps drooping with this unit you will be tempted to try to overclock a bit more ... and more ... that's what i was doing ...

before i get this cooler i was using a zalman cnps9700 and the cpu was running at 3.2 and the temps was near 42 at idle and near 55 at load ... since i try the freezone the temps droop near 25 at idle and 35 at load ... so i push it a little bit more temps dosen t raise ... so again i go further ... so i find 3.6 is just fine for me ... you see the pic'S temps stay near 30 ... for the case ... imo i think silverstone or lian-li are better (built quality) case then coolermaster ... no plastic part's for my rig i use the tj-09 for only one reason ... the layout of the fan's is great for air cooling ... and for cooling the cooolit system to ... so i hope you will find the best choise for you !!!

12.jpg
 
Ah crap... should never have read that DailyTech report on the R600 :\

Now I'm debating whether to go 8800GTS SLi, or save up for the extra month and get 8800GTX sli *OR* HD2900XTX CrossFire :confused: :confused: :confused: :eek:

Why do I ALWAYS have to do a build when all the new and exciting stuff is coming out? :p

Then again, that would bring in even more challenges to cooling over the 8800GTS's o_O
 
vagabond142 said:
Ah crap... should never have read that DailyTech report on the R600 :\

Now I'm debating whether to go 8800GTS SLi, or save up for the extra month and get 8800GTX sli *OR* HD2900XTX CrossFire :confused: :confused: :confused: :eek:

Why do I ALWAYS have to do a build when all the new and exciting stuff is coming out? :p

Then again, that would bring in even more challenges to cooling over the 8800GTS's o_O
Click to expand...

If we all only had the $$ for the prepetual upgrades :S

Your original post in the memory section, you indicated dual 8800GTXs while here you indicate the GTS. That's about a $200 difference per card to play with!!!!! With your apparent budget, your cooling possibilities are almost endless to be honest.

stdu007 has apparently had a very positive experience with the Coolit unit(and admittedly gotten some decent reviews for what it does), but you'll probably get 95% of the people tell you to avoid it & it's mainly because you are spending a ton more on something that ONLY is going to cool your CPU. Even with a very good air cooling option, you'll obtain temps within 10C for 1/4 the price. There is also nothing to worry about with temperatures of the C2D CPUs as their "safe" barrier is somewhere in the high 70s Celcius.

Regardless of the cooling choice you make, you'll probably end up with the "bug" and want to go with a higher & higher overclock which will eventually negate the cooling abilities of the Coolit unit. This is where the choice of a good water cooling loop will serve you better. As stated, you can choose to get a case better suited to your needs as you will not need much airflow if you choose to go with what is suggested. There's a bunch that are in the $200 range that will suit your needs quite well and be able to keep a 3x120 RAD in the interior of the case. Regardless, you will probably be looking at some type of modding as well, so don't let that be a factor at this time.

The best thing you might do is state what your budget is for cooling your beast.

Oh if you want additional feedback on your hardware choices, save some $$ & eliminate 2GB of RAM. Put some of that into a better choice of PSU with a little more power for future consideration as you want your system to last around 3 years. Also, the higher the VGA you choose, the more Amps you are going to need on your 12V line. Read the specs of products that you are looking at & their product consumption. There's also some calculators that will let you know how much your components will use to find a recommended minimum sized PSU.

I posted here & elsewhere before I decided on my build. It couldn't have been more helpful as I could have made some serious errors in my product selection. I still have RAM that I am thinking of replacing as it was a good deal at the time, but might be holding back my overclocking experience right now. Take the advise given by others & choose wisely ;)

{Edit: On the case choice, check out the FS/FT section. You might find a "pre-modded" case that will fit your needs fine.... Hell, there's some good deals on just about everything you will be looking at for your build there}
 
In the memory thread, I was thinking GTX SLi, but I recrunched some numbers and did a :eek: as I had forgotten to price things out right (namely put 2x GTX cards in the pricing), and came out at overbudget by a fair bit T_T

My build budget (components only + case) is $2750 Canadian +/- $150 before GST (basically $2800-$3000 after tax). And I made a mistake up there ^^^^^^^^^^ as I *AM* getting the 1 kW variant of the Galaxy, not the 850W (I've changed my spec so many times that I sometimes slip and forget to update em in my copy n paste notes :eek: )

On top of that, my cooling budget is $300 before GST including all extra fans.

And I know that there will be the overclocking bug there, but I have resisted it pretty well for the past decade of buying my own computer equipment, so I think I can resist pushing hte CPU too hard. Like I said, my goal for an E6420 would be nigh on 3 ghz (2.93 seems to be a very good stable speed for the CPU with little voltage modification) and for an E6600 would be ~3.2 GHz.

Quite honestly, the only reason I'm even considering overclocking is to lift the CPU <-> GPU bottleneck as much as possible when using an SLI GTS system. Whilst researching, the CoolIt Eliminator seems to be the best all-in-one solution that doesn't require case modification (I'm not a modder, and it shows o_O!). I'm not a hardcore, must-do-the-crazy-shizzat kind of enthusiast. I'm the kind that wants mostly stock hardware that will perform well and not void any warranties :eek: :p I also don't like CPU temps above 50 C, and with the Eliminator, in pretty much every torture test of every review, even on overclocked C2D Extreme's, the highest temperature seen has been 43 C.

I'm not here to create the fastest system ever owned, nor am I looking to shatter any benchmarks to itty bitty pieces. I just want a very powerful, reliable, long term gaming solution that will play DX10 games on a 30 inch monitor at 2560x1600 decently. I think I've got that.

And just so you can see my specs, I've actually made a screenie from my local computer wholesaler so you can see the pricings :) The only reason I list E6600 in my specs is that I'm expecting it to be ~ the same price as the E6420 is now when April 22 rolls around, so I use the E6420 in my price specs... although I may end up with the E6420 if it means I can get that money back in other computer equipment (like more memory, better fans, etc). Same goes for listing the Seagate 400GBs instead of the 500GBs, as price drops are coming across the board this month and next, so I'm basically compensating for price drift.
FINAL build will definitely have 500 GB drives so I have a 1 TB storage array :)

Here is my spec as it stands:

realisticsystem.jpg
 
stdu007 said:
IMHO i think you don t need water cooling for these video card in sli ... just use a thermalright hr-03 plus ... {snip} ... for the thermalright preformence i will check this when i got mine ... :cool:
Click to expand...

Got the HR-03's for my X1950xtx's because I'm running Folding on them.
Stock heat-sink was 650 Mhz, 1.325v, 56% fan = Temp 70c. <- fastest I could run the fan and not have it sound like a jet engine.
HR-03 heat-sink is 660 Mhz, 1.400v, 92mm fan = Temp 50c. <- cannot here fan.

Luck .......... :D
 
That'a a MAJOR powerful Psu for that system. Planning on going quad GTS SLI :p

Your system won't use more than 500w absolute full load. so a 750 might be a better option.

Maybe an 800 if you do go SLI and plan on upgrading to a quad core.
 
I am not sure if you will get more OC with the P5N32 also DDR2800 but with the Nvidea Nforce 680I instead of thye P965 chip like the cheaper alternative the P5B-DL.

The max FSB on the P5BL is 400 MHZ and on the P5N32 750 MHz so it should have more room for OC.

Otherwise it would be better to spend your buck on the E6600.

Maybe the XFX GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB DDR3 (PCI-e, 2x DVI) is a cheaper alternative cause you won't be using the extra for what you pay like much extra and you not gonna use the extra cache from 640MB.

Just some suggestions.

Another one buy 4x 80 or 160 GB cheap HD's and put them in RAID0 for very fast transferrates.

Buy an extra 2x 500GB just for the backup files etc. not in RAID0 just single approach.
 
Arcygenical said:
That'a a MAJOR powerful Psu for that system. Planning on going quad GTS SLI :p
Click to expand...


Is not the saying "One can never have too much power?" :eek: :p :D

Well, I may go 850W, I just wanted to be "future ready." Makes sense to get massive power now with all the optional connectors that the Galaxy offers, and not have to worry about selling the 850 at a loss and buying the 1kW. Who knows? In a couple of years, I may go quadcore + 9000 series in SLI. (le shrug)

Right now my goal is to just get a system that can run 2560x1600 4x AA 16x AF gaming without hiccuping.... SLi GTS will do that :D (and be cost effective too!)

As for the reason for going with the 640 over the 320 mb version: Textures. They are only gonna get bigger. The more vram one has, the better.
 
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