Microsoft Sued Over Windows Vista Marketing

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Microsoft is being sued by a woman that is upset that the “Vista capable” computer she bought cannot run all the features that a “Premium ready” machine can. The lawsuit alleges deceptive practices on the part of Microsoft and lawyers for the defendant are seeking class action status.

Machines carrying "Windows Vista Capable" stickers included those that only met the requirements for Windows Vista Home Basic -- which lacks the "Aero" on-screen appearance, Media Center PC interface, Flip 3D window-switching and other features available in advanced Windows Vista versions.
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I have that sticker on a HP workstation. I just installed Vista on it. Guess what... The Intel 915 chipset's video card doesn't have WDDM drivers. Hence, no Aero. I was more aggravated with Intel, but I can see her point.
 
im no ms fan but the lady need to do a little research before buying a computer
 
......

is this up there with coffee on crotch and suing mcdonalds cuz it was hot? ehhh maybe
 
The differences between Vista capable and Vista premium Ready were readily made available online and in stores, as was training for employees. If she didn't do her research, then she doesn't need vista anyway.

Probably bought a celeron w/25mb of ram anyway.
 
This is why things cost so much here. Everybody wants to sue someone, because they were too stupid to do their homework.

So it's microsoft's fault the lady couldnt take the time to log on to the windows site and understand the difference between the versions?????

She bought a stripped down emachine and is mad because it doesnt have the horsepower.
"What do you mean I need to spend more than 300 dollars?????"

Hey lady.....do you want fries with that?
 
She was the idiot who bought a system without asking questions.
 
Microsoft deserves this crap for releasing a stupid 19 version operating system. If you're going to tier the platform then the stickers should say which version of Vista the computer supports.
 
Fooshnik said:
Microsoft deserves this crap for releasing a stupid 19 version operating system. If you're going to tier the platform then the stickers should say which version of Vista the computer supports.
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That's why you do RESEARCH when you plan on buying a product...especially when it is going to be from a couple hundred bucks to over a thousand.

This is like suing a car company for a feature that is in a feature you have to pay extra for.
 
Fooshnik said:
Microsoft deserves this crap for releasing a stupid 19 version operating system. If you're going to tier the platform then the stickers should say which version of Vista the computer supports.
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Thats what people should sue for if they're so worried about it. But sadly she is suing for money and couldn't give a rats ass about anyone else who didn't do the research. I really hope this gets thrown out, but it wont. I bet MS will settle for a few hundred thou.
 
Where's the lie? If it's labeled as 'Vista Ready' and it has Vista installed, it's not false advertising. Aero is not Vista. It's only a part of it. Home Basic is, in fact, a version of Vista. How difficult is it to understand that Home Basic is the bottom end of Vista?

It's a little shady and you'd expect more from Microsoft. I don't want her to win money for being ignorant, whether intentionally or obliviously, but hopefully MS will reconsider the labels.
 
GJSNeptune said:
Where's the lie? If it's labeled as 'Vista Ready' and it has Vista installed, it's not false advertising. Aero is not Vista. It's only a part of it. Home Basic is, in fact, a version of Vista. How difficult is it to understand that Home Basic is the bottom end of Vista?

It's a little shady and you'd expect more from Microsoft. I don't want her to win money for being ignorant, whether intentionally or obliviously, but hopefully MS will reconsider the labels.
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But that's the thing. Vista Capable meant that it would run, at LEAST Vista basic, but may be able to be upgraded to be able to run ultimate.

Premium ready means it can run premium as-is.

Capable. Ready. That's pretty clear to me. And it was to Almost ALL of the customers I sold to. Anyone that was confused asked questions and got straightened out. WTF was wrong with this lady?
I bet you she knows NOTHING about computers and tried to solo a purchase.
 
BINGO! If there were more cases of people getting "confused" or feeling ripped off then I can maybe see her point...but that isn't the case.

Now if people would have sued nvidia (or another hardware manufacturer) that used the "Vista compatible" sticker b/c their hardware didn't work when Vista first launched, then I can sort of understand but then again that is also a stretch.
 
Something to consider is that maybe she did do her research and new exactly what she was doing. Ambulance chasing comes in many forms. She related to the attorney that filed?
 
Hmm.. Did a MS employee put that sticker on that computer? Or was it a BB employee or Dell/Gateway/Compaq/or the likes?? Did MS advertise that particular computer? Or was it a BB employee or Dell/Gateway/Compaq/or the likes??
Methinks she be filing suit against the wrong company..
MS certified it as capable of running Vista, nothing more.. If it can in fact run Vista, then toss the litigation, and slap the dumb !*%#@! with legal fees and call it a day..

We have too many lawyers and too many dumb people in this country.. Sue happy, mouth breathing, inbred, bottom feeding, dumb people.. The same kind who kiss a metal flagpole in the middle of a North Dakota winter, dumb people.. The ones who are so stupid that they don't know hot coffee, is, well, HOT, dumb people... Well, we are a culture that rewards the weak, the stupid, and the lazy, so I should not be surprised..
 
Did any of you even read the article?

"All the 'wow' stuff that Microsoft is selling and marketing is present in (Windows Vista Home) Premium, but it's not present in Basic," said Michael Rosenberger, one of the lawyers representing Kelley in the case.
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"In sum, Microsoft engaged in bait and switch -- assuring consumers they were purchasing 'Vista Capable' machines when, in fact, they could obtain only a stripped-down operating system lacking the functionality and features that Microsoft advertised as 'Vista,' " the complaint says. As a result, the suit said, people were buying machines that couldn't run "the real Vista."
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Even better...

The suit also alleges that Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates contributed to the company's "deceptive marketing" during a Jan. 29 appearance on the "Today" show, when he said that PC users could upgrade to Windows Vista for less than $100.

"In fact, one can only 'upgrade' to Home Basic for that price, which Mr. Gates and Microsoft know is a product that lacks the features marketed by Microsoft as being Vista," the suit said. The suit alleges that Gates' statement "furthered Microsoft's unfair and deceptive conduct."
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Basically, she's bitching that Vista Home Basic isn't the same as Vista Premium. And that she was mislead into believeing that Vista Home Basic had all the features Vista Premium had.

Unless you've been living under a rock, I don't really understand how you could confuse Vista Home Basic and Vista Premium as the same thing...
 
EQTakeOffense said:
Did any of you even read the article?





Even better...



Basically, she's bitching that Vista Home Basic isn't the same as Vista Premium. And that she was mislead into believeing that Vista Home Basic had all the features Vista Premium had.

Unless you've been living under a rock, I don't really understand how you could confuse Vista Home Basic and Vista Premium as the same thing...
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even the fact that one is called BASIC.. and one is called Premium shoudl be grounds to assume that they might have different features lol..
 
OK, here's all she needs to do to get the new effects of Home Premium...
1. Go to TigerDirect.com and get the GeForce 6600 GT, it's $49 after mir.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2884782&CatId=1559
2. Get the upgrade from MS for Vista Basic to Vista Premium. Another $50 or so.
3. Make sure you have at least 1 GB of RAM (preferably 2), otherwise you might as well be running XP, and with the cost of DDR2 RAM plummeting, she can get that much for less than $150.00

You can't expect to get any amount of decent computer performance out of a machine that cost you less than an X-box 360.
 
I agree that the plethora of Vista editions is annoying and potentially bewildering. But not in any way misleading. If this wasn't filed in eastern Texas, then it stands a good chance of being thrown out.
 
Haha...

Laptops were typically labeled with the version of XP that was installed. This made it easy to discern what version of XP was installed, because it was on the label. I would think Microsoft with their abundance of resources could manage to produce separate labels, as they've already shown they can. The person filing the suit is an idiot, but if you're going to market a product you want 100 million people to buy you can be damn sure that most of them are stupid. Might as well save yourself the trouble of dealing with the stupids and write things out as plainly as possible, not tell them to go read the pamphlets and come back.
 
Fooshnik said:
Haha...

Laptops were typically labeled with the version of XP that was installed. This made it easy to discern what version of XP was installed, because it was on the label. I would think Microsoft with their abundance of resources could manage to produce separate labels, as they've already shown they can. The person filing the suit is an idiot, but if you're going to market a product you want 100 million people to buy you can be damn sure that most of them are stupid. Might as well save yourself the trouble of dealing with the stupids and write things out as plainly as possible, not tell them to go read the pamphlets and come back.
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They are labeled with the version of Vista they come with. Now.
Before vista came out tho, those different sticks for capable/ready were to signify what your Xp-loaded machine could run in the way of vista.
 
I've used both Vista Basic and Vista Ultimate a lot, and to be honest after using Basic for a very short period the lack of drop shadow and transparency are completely forgotten. I imagine if you told this wench she were using Ultimate she'd never doubt you.
 
Leon2ky said:
She was the idiot who bought a system without asking questions.
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I see your point, but do you really think the people at Best Buy or wherever she bought it would have known any better? Or have been able to explain it to her so that she could understand?

...just playing devil's advocate...
 
Steve_010 said:
I see your point, but do you really think the people at Best Buy or wherever she bought it would have known any better? Or have been able to explain it to her so that she could understand?

...just playing devil's advocate...
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Trust me, they know the difference, i work at Bb and we had the stuff shoved at us repeatedly, but to be honest it did the rick. We haven't had any issues like this at all.
 
You know, at first, i though she might be on to something. But after reading the article, she's basically trying to say that a Chevy Impala is not an Impala because there's an Impala SS with more features. It's rediculous. You wanted Vista, you got Vista, you just got the base model instead of the SS.
 
I can kinda see this, however she needs to learn this: "You get what you pay for", just because your Jeep Liberty says "OffRoad 4X4", it doesn't mean you can start rock climbing with it either.
 
meh, Bill Gates will probably give her a new computer with Vista Ultimate.. It will be good for the company and show he's outgoing and cares about his customers.
 
Depends what her computer model is. When I bought my Dell XPS m140, Dell had said that it was Vista Premium Ready if you had at least 1GB of ram.

They didn't put labels on mine, and soon removed it off of their website. I have a 915GM with 1GB of ram. Intel decided to drop support because they're lazy bastards.

Misleading information? I'd say so.
 
malingjc said:
Depends what her computer model is. When I bought my Dell XPS m140, Dell had said that it was Vista Premium Ready if you had at least 1GB of ram.

They didn't put labels on mine, and soon removed it off of their website. I have a 915GM with 1GB of ram. Intel decided to drop support because they're lazy bastards.

Misleading information? I'd say so.
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Yes, but who's fault is that? Certainly not MS's. This is purely Dell's or Intel's fault in your example for not doing due-dilligance in their system testing.

Sucks yes, but not MS's fault, as they didnt certify that the system in question was Vista capable/ready.
 
I laugh at those of you who expect a consumer to do research. When i was in sales maybe 20% knew anything about what they wanted. Maybe it has improved but i don't see the
average user who knows little about computers going to look online and try to find such information. They depend on the sales people.

Training at BB? The only training i ever saw there was messages from corporate talking about how we should sell more of these items cause they give us better margins.

If they can prove that there were no distinctions made when MC was advertising vista they have a case. Would not matter what it says on the MS website they are just talking about the marketing.

Having said that i agree that people who don't do their research deserve what they buy :)
 
Seelenlos said:
I laugh at those of you who expect a consumer to do research. When i was in sales maybe 20% knew anything about what they wanted. Maybe it has improved but i don't see the
average user who knows little about computers going to look online and try to find such information. They depend on the sales people.

Training at BB? The only training i ever saw there was messages from corporate talking about how we should sell more of these items cause they give us better margins.

If they can prove that there were no distinctions made when MC was advertising vista they have a case. Would not matter what it says on the MS website they are just talking about the marketing.

Having said that i agree that people who don't do their research deserve what they buy :)
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The website is the marketing source for these stickers,
 
Steve_010 said:
I see your point, but do you really think the people at Best Buy or wherever she bought it would have known any better? Or have been able to explain it to her so that she could understand?

...just playing devil's advocate...
Click to expand...

But, the point is, that's not MICROSOFT's fault that best buy doesn't train their employees.
The fact is, microsoft doesn't build computers (unless you want to count the xbox'en) so, it's up to dell, gateway, emachines, hp, compaq, alienware.. you know, those companies that actually design the computers and install vista on them) to educate the seller of the computer, AND the buyer. Microsoft writes an operating system. How it's USED by the deployers of it is not their responsibility. It's like the old argument of suing a company that makes the butt-grips for a smith & wesson because someone used their gun to kill someone. It's the fault of the user of the gun, the gun store that let the person buy the gun (and, at least, in that example, the state/federal agency that let them have a gun in the first place), but it's hardly the fault of that company that made that small part of the firearm...

I saw the interview with gates that was mentioned. I don't remember him saying "You can run vista ultimate 64 bit with full aero effects on a 1.2 Ghz celeron with onboard video.

I also don't see that as a claim from the commercials, either.

But.. wait.. advertising doesn't tell the entire story? Oh my, what a revelation.

You see those commericals for the trucks pulling 10,000 pounds and then stopping that 10,000 pounds when they go downhill? What they don't tell you is, that immediately after that commercial, that truck had it's brakes serviced, AND the 10,000 pound load was PERFECTLY distributed... You see cars racing around at 100mph in commercials, and then see a claim that the same car gets 34mpg (thinking chevy cobalt, for example) but they don't tell you that when you are running at 100mph, you're getting 7mph

The computer she has runs vista. That means it's vista capable. The sticker says vista capable. She has a computer that does what it claims it does. Microsoft makes no claims by the statements of bill gates (who, by the way, doesn't run the company anymore) or it's commercials about how the operating system will run on "brand X" computer.

But even if it said vista capable, and couldn't, wouldn't that still be the fault of her COMPUTER manufacturer?
 
w1retap said:
meh, Bill Gates will probably give her a new computer with Vista Ultimate.. It will be good for the company and show he's outgoing and cares about his customers.
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If that happened, it would set a precedent. Lawyers would pile in, with other customers making demands. I don't find it likely.

It's hard for me to pick sides on this one. Either way, I think it might have been a good idea for Microsoft to have mutliple "Vista Ready" stickers, to tie in with the version of the product. Or perhaps Microsoft should have not shipped Home Basic, but instead only marketed Home Premium as the only home version, but with the ability upon first-time setup to determine whether Aero support would work or not, and run in a lower-graphic mode if not.

To all who said "Doing research is important", I completely agree with you. However, there are a lot of things to keep straight when buying a computer, and all of us here are enthusiasts. We know that there's tons of details, and we also know how to use the Internet to find out the differences, something that seems incredibly simple and easy to us, but may not to others, much like some of us can rebuild a carburetor and some of us cannot. So for the average consumer, putting this all together at the same time as figuring out details like processor, ram, the difference between ram and hard disk space (we all know your Aunt Bertha still doesn't get that concept), what makes one LCD panel monitor different from another, and so on can be dizzying.

We also know for a fact that Microsoft's base system requirements have been unreasonably optimistic for years now (for anyone that recalls, Windows 95's minimums were a 386DX/25 with 4MB of RAM). And, if you read Microsoft's recommended Vista Home requirements, you find that even there they recommend a DirectX9 graphics card with 32MB of graphics memory. Maybe others out there do, but I don't equate a number of Intel integrated graphics setups as meeting that requirement, and yet a number of systems with Intel integrated graphics are "Vista Ready". Not to mention the 512MB minimum memory requirement, which many forum members here have labeled a joke. It's obvious how Vista Home Basic is there so Microsoft can please OEMs, allowing them ton still sell a sub-$500 PC, because to run Vista in a way the average user would truly like (and with the experience Microsoft intended) requires pricier hardware than the customer was used to paying for to run Windows XP Home.

On one hand, we likely have someone who should have done more research, or who wanted to save a buck and got burned. On the other hand, we have Microsoft, whom I believe should have made the Vista rollout simpler and easier to understand for the consumer. I think a little blame can be laid in each corner on this one.
 
I don't look at pcs in stores very often so I'm not 100% sure, but didn't stores have a posting about what Vista Capable meant? I could have swore I seen it in ad flyers

I have seen something similar to this multiple times on various sites that had the Vista Capable logo.

"All editions of Windows Vista will deliver core experiences such as innovations in organizing and finding information, security, and reliability. All Windows Vista Capable PCs will run these core experiences at a minimum. Some features available in the premium editions of Windows Vista—like the new Windows Aero user experience—may require advanced or additional hardware. "


If the store did not have any posting about what the difference between Vista Capable and Vista Premium Ready, and did not have sales people that where trained or informed enough to tell customers what they were really buying. Then it should be the stores not Microsoft that should be sued, as it is the store that lied to you. Going along with the car anologies, that would be similar to a car salesman telling you that the Prius can get 120mpg and you then sueing Toyota for the car not actually getting that when it was the salesman that lied to you, not Toyota.
 
What must she do for a living that she has no research skills?
Is she 42 and flips burgers or something?

Really though, I agree with all the posters that this isn't Microsoft's fault. In fact, the only thing Microsoft had to do with this was making the OS. That's border-line indirect involvement.

The hardware manufacturers put together the system and released the drivers. The computer company assembled the system. The computer company put Vista on the system. The computer company put the sticker on the system. The salesman at wherever she purchased the system sold it to her.

Microsoft's involvement is....... where?
 
LoneWolf said:
Maybe others out there do, but I don't equate a number of Intel integrated graphics setups as meeting that requirement, and yet a number of systems with Intel integrated graphics are "Vista Ready".
Click to expand...

Obviously you have never used integrated Intel GPU's.

I have an Intel gpu on the laptop I am using right now. Aero works just as good on my laptop as it did on my desktop with a 6800 GT (though recently I disabled Aero to hopefully save a little battery life, The Aero theme, while nice, isn't worth any extra battery usage).
 
Microsoft sets the standards whereby a company can place a Microsoft sticker on a system.

If a company met those standards last year and was therefore licensed BY MICROSOFT to use the sticker, then the onus is on Microsoft to deliver a compatible OS.

This is only a BestBuy problem if BestBuy did not meet the standards set by Microsoft at the time the system was sold.

This is only a Microsoft problem if the standards were not met by the delivered OS or if the marketing was misleading on the limitations (I don't think it was, but we are 'in the know', here).

The truck analogy is poor: If the marketing says that a truck can perform to those specs without describing the limitations, then that is a clear case of false advertising. Ads are pulled all the time for that crap and people are rightfully compensated.
 
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