any word on LED backlighting?

T

THRESHIN

2[H]4U
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been waiting patiently for this feature. i read that it promises more even backlighting and other such goodness. me wants.
 
Amazing how almost all Samsung monitors used LED at CeBIT 13 months ago, and we still havent seen any of those products.
 
bunch of bastards making me wait for a good monitor....

right now i have a 7900 GTO SLI system pushing a friggin 17" monitor at 1024x768, its disgraceful! can't find a bigger CRT and i honestly am not too fond of current LCD's.

*rant off*
 
Well, an LED backlit LCD is still an LCD. All the same problems and deficiencies. The local dimming thing is still a gimmick, unless contrast can be controlled pixel by pixel it's not going to look right.

Oh, and most LED backlight LCDs are actually worse color-wise then CCFL LCD's. Think 45% color gamut. They're used in laptops because they use less power and are thinner/lighter/brighter, three things desktop LCD's dont really need.

There's somthing about the display industry that's led to stagnation. Everyone's happy with their LCDs. The high end home-theatre segment has their plasmas, which are very nice, but don't apply to PC gamers and the like. What can we do?
 
Samsung have released / announced a couple of models, and Behardware and x-bit labs have already reviewed the Xl20 for instance. The 30" XL30 was shown at this year's CEBIT too
 
From what I've gathered waiting and reading about LCD tech there's always supposed to be better coming out. BFI, 120Hz, LED backlight, laser backlight, OLED, SED, etc.

For whatever reason it gets delayed for years and years and years. Even when it does come out it will be so prohibitively expensive as to be unaffordable initially.

I think if you're looking at monitors you might as well just get whatever you can afford in your price range. Prices are dropping this year so it might be worth it to wait a bit.
 
okashira said:
Well, an LED backlit LCD is still an LCD. All the same problems and deficiencies. The local dimming thing is still a gimmick, unless contrast can be controlled pixel by pixel it's not going to look right.

Oh, and most LED backlight LCDs are actually worse color-wise then CCFL LCD's. Think 45% color gamut. They're used in laptops because they use less power and are thinner/lighter/brighter, three things desktop LCD's dont really need.

There's somthing about the display industry that's led to stagnation. Everyone's happy with their LCDs. The high end home-theatre segment has their plasmas, which are very nice, but don't apply to PC gamers and the like. What can we do?
Click to expand...

yup, another lcd with new technologies will still inherit the problems of lcd's in general
 
okashira said:
Well, an LED backlit LCD is still an LCD. All the same problems and deficiencies. The local dimming thing is still a gimmick, unless contrast can be controlled pixel by pixel it's not going to look right.

Oh, and most LED backlight LCDs are actually worse color-wise then CCFL LCD's. Think 45% color gamut. They're used in laptops because they use less power and are thinner/lighter/brighter, three things desktop LCD's dont really need.

There's somthing about the display industry that's led to stagnation. Everyone's happy with their LCDs. The high end home-theatre segment has their plasmas, which are very nice, but don't apply to PC gamers and the like. What can we do?
Click to expand...

Are you kidding? LED backlights have better colour gamut than even the HC monitors of today. Their contrast ratios go up to 1,000,000:1 (samsung advertised a panel with that capability). Now response times and input lag might still be a problem, but we don't know yet...
 
It should certainly be possible to have much wider colour gamuts. Contrast should be better (with local dimming) but manufacturer's figures are often spurious. I doubt you'll see that in the real world. Response time and input lag won't be improved by LEDs though. Any improvement in that regard could equally be made on panels sporting CCFL backlights.
 
Sinister Crayon said:
Their contrast ratios go up to 1,000,000:1 (samsung advertised a panel with that capability).
Click to expand...

They don't have any better contrast ratio than normal LCD's, except when equipped with dynamically adjusting backlights. Dynamic backlights are pretty crap, overall. They're alright for static images. The Samsung monitor you're referencing is a special case of dynamic backlight, and it will be cost prohibitive.
 
Sinister Crayon said:
Are you kidding? LED backlights have better colour gamut than even the HC monitors of today. Their contrast ratios go up to 1,000,000:1 (samsung advertised a panel with that capability). Now response times and input lag might still be a problem, but we don't know yet...
Click to expand...

You don't seem to really understand how a backlit TFT display works.

The contrast ratio quote is rubbish. The display is turning on and off and varying the brightness of sections of leds behind the display panel to 'fake' a good contrast. What I mean by 'fake,' is that this would only work well on an image that tends itself to gradual gradients of brightness. On an image that has sharp contrast and sharp gradients, this local dimming would be useless, unless there are so many LEDs that one LED lights each individual pixel - which would be rediculous.

As far as color gamut:
White LEDs have far inferior gamut compared to a good CCFL. Here's an example of an NEW unreleased white led backlit TFT:
200702011146363404led3dz8.jpg

Now I don't know about you, but I wouldn't consider 45% good. Most CCFL backlit notebook LCDS are already better then this.
Here's the color profile of a typical White LED:
lux3vz6.gif

(source: candlepowerforums/www.ledmuseum.org)

Not very good at all.

Now, what about those high end desktop LCD's with 100%+ color gamut? well, they're made by very small arrays of R G & B LEDS behing the TFT, and this solution is very expensive; the displays price reflects it.

Let me add that the difference between a good color gamut CCFL TFT and a 100%+ $2000LED backlit LCD is VERY VERY subtle.



Response times and display lag? Oh, but we do know. they will be the same as CCFL LCDs as LED backlights do nothing to address the inherent disadvantages of TFTs!!

I am on your side. I just want to see manufactuers make better and better displays (esp since the maket, relativly, SUCKS right now) The only thing I can do to help that is to make sure people are not misinformed about new technology.


cliffnotes
LED backlit LCD not major improvement over CCFL backlit LCD.
 
The price will go down quickly for 110%+ gamut RGB LED displays because they have to compete with plasmas in the HDTV market, so that isn't really a factor. 45% gamut white LEDs are only interesting right now for their power consumption. Show me a 15" CCFL LCD that draws 3 watts.

Color gamut is much improved, and the backlight maintains brightness with an eventual large failure after 100,000 hours instead of slowly fading to half brightness during the first 50,000 hours. LEDs are solid state, so actually cycling them on and off for dark frame insertion won't hurt them like it would a flourescent light. The dark frame insertion should theoretically help with motion smear and black levels.

Sounds like pretty good improvements to me... a choice of either 110% gamut, or 10x lower power consumption. Also the possibility of improved motion and black levels.
 
I think one advantage of LED backlight is uniform brightness and no backlight bleed
 
Backlight bleed is a issue with the transmission panel not blocking all of the backlight's light and not an issue of the backlight technology itself. So backlight bleed should be the same either way.
 
Ryom said:
Backlight bleed is a issue with the transmission panel not blocking all of the backlight's light and not an issue of the backlight technology itself. So backlight bleed should be the same either way.
Click to expand...

but it won't be bleeding on dark scenes because the backlight will be dimmed, or even shut off in those areas.
 
Right, local dimming. I was thinking of the plain LED backlight without the dimming. I'd be interested to see if there are false contouring issues with that tech. So far some LCDs have managed to gain the plasma/crt like disadvantages of image retention, I hope we don't add false contouring to the list as well.
 
i just want to see a decent 20-22" LCD that i'd be happy to ditch my CRT for. so far that hasn't come along and i got a feeling my CRT is going to die later this year....starting to flicker in the lower left corner.

i tried two of the samsung 226BW's and i was not impressed. backlighting wasn't even at all, and i didn't like the loss of contrast range. i really don't want to spend $800 on a good 24". i wish they'd hurry up and make a decent 22".
 
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