Dell 2707WFP + PlayStation 2 = Delay??

[mrnoface]

Everything is fine if I use it with my PC but there seems to be a little input delay when I hit the button on PS2's controller.

I tested/played 3-4 games including Everybody's Golf 3, Metal Gear Solid 3, R-Type Final, etc.. to check if it's my 2707WFP's problem. PS2 works fine when connected to 29inch CRT TV. So the cause isn't PS2/controller/cable.

My question is: Have any of you connected Dell 2707WFP to PS2 or any other devices that has component/composite output? I tried both interfaces but there's still 0.1 second lag (approx. - maybe shorter) when playing games and this is really annoying. I can't hit the golf ball accurately in golf games!!

If you have any answers/comments about this strange problem, please let me know.

Thanks.

- mrnoface

 

[sniggle]

That would make sense since it's a PVA panel. I've owned other LCD displays with PVA panels (Samsung 244T) and also noticed the input lag. I think it depends on the monitor manufacturer's method of interfacing with it in their particular monitor but I'm not really sure.

Do you also notice it when you hook up a computer and drag a window around?

 

[mrnoface]

I dragged various windows very fast and there's no lag at all with DVI connection.

Hmm maybe Samsung's panel is the source of this problem then...
I was thinking of the refund and getting one of Samsung's new 275T but should wait till I can see some results.

But it seems strange: Dell 2407WFP and Benq FP241W don't have the similar problem - at least that's what I heard from other users.

I just wanted to get rid of my old 29 inch CRT TV but can't...

 

[DG25]

Kinda offtopic here, but can you tell me, do you play ps2 games on 640x480 with 1:1 pixel mapping? Isn't the resulting viewable area too small to see confortably?

 

[robber98]

But it seems strange: Dell 2407WFP and Benq FP241W don't have the similar problem - at least that's what I heard from other users.

I just wanted to get rid of my old 29 inch CRT TV but can't...

I can vouch for Dell 2407WFP A04; I play Okami on it and I don't see any input lag.

 

[mrnoface]

This is several test methods you can try if you have 2707WFP (that has some delay just like mine) and a VGA card that has composite/component/S-Video output.

1) Connect composite/component/S-Video out of your VGA with 2707WFP's input.

2) When VGA/DVI is set as the main source, go into 'PBP' mode in 2707WFP.

3) Move the mouse around - you can compare the movement of the mouse cursor in each area. If you're sensitive enough you can see some delay in composite/component/S-Video screen.

4) Another test method is browse any long websites (i.e. hardforum) and scroll fast using the mouse wheel. You can tell the difference in display timing.

5) Now switch to 'PIP' mode and try the same. There should be almost no difference between two screens now.

I also took some pictures using a monitor test program with my digital camera but I forgot to bring my USB memory today. I'll post it as soon as I get home.

 

[mrnoface]

Kinda offtopic here, but can you tell me, do you play ps2 games on 640x480 with 1:1 pixel mapping? Isn't the resulting viewable area too small to see confortably?

I connected PS2 using a component cable and my 2707 shows the screen mode as '480i.' I'm using Aspect or Fill in Display Options menu in OSD. I tried 1:1 but the screen size is way too small and there's still delay so no merit at all.

 

[RaynQuist]

I believe the lag comes from the analog -> digital conversion, and in your case there's also deinterlacing and resizing, which are both not cheap operations. Deinterlacing in particular may even wait for the next frame before it starts calculating the current frame.

 

[DG25]

I connected PS2 using a component cable and my 2707 shows the screen mode as '480i.' I'm using Aspect or Fill in Display Options menu in OSD. I tried 1:1 but the screen size is way too small and there's still delay so no merit at all.

So, do you play your ps2 games in widescreen format (streched) or in 4:3 (resized)?

I'm asking this because i want to buy a 2007WFP for my PS2, and i don't know how will it look...

 

[mrnoface]

So, do you play your ps2 games in widescreen format (streched) or in 4:3 (resized)?

I'm asking this because i want to buy a 2007WFP for my PS2, and i don't know how will it look...

I play it with 'Aspect' option on. It's 4:3 I believe. Black edge on both sides of displayed area but it's ok - I don't want to stretch it to fill the whole screen.

 

[mrnoface]

Main source = DVI
Sub source = S-Video

VGA: XFX GeForce 7800GTX
Test application: Screen Test program from monitor4u
This Screen Test program moves the blue box in the green area fast so users can test the response time.

1st, 2nd image - PIP Mode
3rd, 4th image - PBP Mode

As you can see, there's almost no lag in 1st/2nd image. DVI set as the main source and I resized smaller PIP screen for your convenience.

But there's some lag in 3rd/4th image: you can see some lag in 3rd and in 4th, I changed the box's speed to maximum and it's more apparent.

My question is this: how come 2707WFP has this problem (not sure it's just my monitor or it's the same for all) and 2407WFP is ok? I'm pretty sure that Dell used a different AD board but for a LCD monitor over $1.200 this isn't normal...

And I've found out that other than Dell 2407WFP, Benq FP241W and 42inch Do-It-Yourself Full HD TV worth $1,400 don't have this problem either.

What should I do now?

I emailed Dell's US tech. support twice and the reply was "Please forward your inquiry to Dell's Korea tech. support." I'm pretty d_mn sure that this monitor was designed in America and don't want to go through the tedious process...

 

[DG25]

I play it with 'Aspect' option on. It's 4:3 I believe. Black edge on both sides of displayed area but it's ok - I don't want to stretch it to fill the whole screen.

Ok, last offtopic here: How does it look? Picture quality wise (PS2 image)? I would be very greatful if you could post a picture with a ps2 game running...

 

[mrnoface]

Ok, last offtopic here: How does it look? Picture quality wise (PS2 image)? I would be very greatful if you could post a picture with a ps2 game running...

here are some pictures taken with my Lumix TZ-1. I connected my PS2 using component cables. Pixels might look big a little bit, but it's quite playable except slow response time when using analog inputs. (don't compare the picture quality with CRT monitor/TV - CRT is way to go if you want to play PS2 heavily)

http://home.megapass.net/~mrnoface1/P1030923_resize.JPG
http://home.megapass.net/~mrnoface1/P1030925_resize.JPG
http://home.megapass.net/~mrnoface1/P1030927_resize.JPG
http://home.megapass.net/~mrnoface1/P1030928_resize.JPG
http://home.megapass.net/~mrnoface1/P1030932_resize.JPG

And here you can see 'stretch box effect' due to the slow response time - I have to hit the ball in advance. (maybe approx. 0.1 sec?)

http://home.megapass.net/~mrnoface1/P1030936_resize.JPG
http://home.megapass.net/~mrnoface1/P1030937_resize.JPG

If I take a look in the screen seriously, I can find out some flickering in the area filled with the same color and flying dots (very very scarce). I'm not sure if this is normal for 2707WFP.

BTW, right after I made a call to Dell Korea's tech. support and emailed my request through Dell U.S.'s website (because I couldn't find any links for sending email in Dell Korea website), I got several calls from very kind and helping representatives.

One of them is going to do some extensive test for a week and let me know the result: the other already sent another 2707WFP for testing/comparing since I can't be at home to test my monitor with the engineer during weekdays. I will be able to receive it today.

I was rather afraid to request this type of things due to a lot of complaints in a famous Korean hardware website but now I'm happy. I can get a good monitor or get my old one refunded.

 

[DG25]

Thank you for the pics, they look fine to me!

Did you try to connect to the S-Video input?

 

[mrnoface]

Thank you for the pics, they look fine to me!

Did you try to connect to the S-Video input?

Yes but I tested s-video input using my vga card to see if there's any lag between DVI and s-video. I've heard that Benq FP241W shows better picture quality when connected to PS2 with s-video cable...

 

[mrnoface]

Got a new 2707WFP in less than 24 hours after I called tech support.

I tested it with the same method and got the exactly same result: there's some lag.

Going to return it and contact Dell's tech support again to check if this problem can be solved with firmware update.

I can get my 2707 refunded, buy a replacement and wait for Samsung 275T assuming that it doesn't have any problem but I'm not really sure I want to bother myself to do all that.

Maybe I better give my old PS2 to girlfriend and just forget about it.

 

[thefewtheproud]

If it was me, I would give the ps2 to the girlfriend and start saving for a shinny new hdmi enabled ps3. You shouldnt have any image quality problems with that.

 

[robber98]

If it was me, I would give the ps2 to the girlfriend and start saving for a shinny new hdmi enabled ps3. You shouldnt have any image quality problems with that.

PS3 won't fix the input lag problem tho...

I think 2707 is suffering typical input lag found on many S-PVA panel (especially on Samsung's LCD)

 

[mrnoface]

If it was me, I would give the ps2 to the girlfriend and start saving for a shinny new hdmi enabled ps3. You shouldnt have any image quality problems with that.

I thought about getting PS3 too but I'm not sure if it will succeed or not. MS keeps coming with a lot of money and new consoles you know.

And I'd love to have a full HD player but rather wait for a cheap combo drive for the PC. It will take 2-3 years but it's worth waiting.

BTW, since PS3 supports DVI interface I think it upscans 480i to 480p when playing PS2 titles - possibly getting rid of this annoying lag issue.