What is the average life of a power supply?

C

Clockworks

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
Messages
5,269
Specifically an Antec NeoPower 480. I've had the thing for about 2 years, which seems ok to me, and I think it decided to die. I'm pretty sure it is the PS because I tried turning on my machine with different cables and ended with a grand total of a loud whining pitch (eeeeeeeeeeeee). The mobo lights light up for about 5 seconds (the computer still remaining off, standard mobo light that is always on) and shut off followed by said screech.

So now I'm looking at most likely getting a new PS. I heard Corsair made good ones but I've had a story with them last year in terms of RAM. People were getting the XMS2 DDR800 2GB sticks of RAM because they were so easy to overclock. I got a pair and found out a few days later, after many failed attempts, that they switched the memory chips inside to cheaper modules. $300 for RAM that was equally comparable to $170 sticks. So much money wasted...

EDIT: Forgot to add this while going on my tangent. My system will be running (upgrade in the next few days):

- Q6700
- 8800GT
- 2GB of Corsair (until I can find someone that wants to buy my RAM)
- 1x DVD burner
 
I've got an el-cheapo 300W that came with a case for like 50 bucks that still works 6-7 years later. I've got a CompUSA brand Starlogic 400W or something that has worked through 24/7 use for the last 4 years.

Maybe I am just lucky with them. ;)
 
I'm pretty sure the NeoPower has Fujhyyu capacitors which are famous for failing.

The Corsair HX520 will power that system nicely.
 
Yep my neopower 480 failed 2 years ago, they sent me a neohe 500, just failed today. By the time my computer shut downed, restarted thousands of times.
 
Get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002

Hear so many good things about that one. Its been around for quite some time. Just look at how many reviews and stars it has compared to the others. You can also find lots of reviews online for it. I personally don't own it, but when the time comes its my first pick.

Also, don't be fooled into getting a 1000 watt PSU. If you have enough amps on the 12v rails, a 500 watt PSU is even good enough for SLi systems running two video cards. The one I linked you is 700watt which is pretty common.
 
No most likely bout it, its dead. Thats probably inductor squeal because a cap is gone and the inductor is getting way more AC on the input voltage than it was designed for probably at the switching frequency and a lower harmonic is causing the inductor to vibrate/"ring" at some harmonic that you can hear. Stop tying to power it up you could damage something else.

About Power Supply Life:
As mentioned in posts above, unless abused (overloaded or you pour a coke in one) the caps are probably, most of the time, maybe, going to determine the life of the unit. The life of the caps depends on their quality of construction. The primary indicators of this is the temp rating and ESR. The temp rating can be easily found as it tends to be stamped on the cap. ESR (equivalent series resistance) is something you have to go to a data sheet to find out. I have power supplies that are 5+ years and I am not worried about them.

If you want a supply to live as long as possible here are my recommendations all based on the fact that heat kills.

1) A good quality supply with the filter caps rated at 105C (those are the big caps)
2) Over spec the supply by 25% over any future possible load.
3) a 120mm min. fan (there are some good supply's with an just 80 but not many.
4) Good airflow in the case means that CPU heat is mainly exhausted by other fans (the rear one by the CPU should be a 120mm fan. You really do not want the power supply pulling in hot top of the case air, at least as much as you can prevent it. See crazy mounting suggestion below for extreme solution. Good strong front lower intake fan, again a 120mm, even low speed, is preferred to provide plenty of cool intake air. If you have a high performance video card, do everything possible to get the heat it exhausts out of the case, side fan/vent whatever. This item is probally the most important, if you can keep the temps inside the power supply low, the temp rating of the caps does not matter as much.

Corsair VX-550 but still do the above. (Disclaimer, I have one, love it)
OCZ 600W unit is OK too.

Probably many other but those are the only two I have looked hard at. Jonnyguru.com and the main page here at [H] have good reviews. If a review does not put the supply on a commercial load tester and tear it apart and comment on the caps used and the other components, ignore it. Ripple is an indication of marginal caps as the LC (inductor - capacitor) filtering is not designed well and the ripple (which is a small AC signal riding on top of the DC voltage) will cause internal capacitor heating as well as in general not be good for your motherboard and its capacitors which have to further try to filter the DC. Some ripple is always going to be there, but I use low ripple as a yardstick as to the design quality of the supply. There are crappy supplies with low ripple but there are not any good supplies with high ripple. Heavy is good too but the shipping weights in general cannot be relied on, sometimes the manuf spec on their web page lists it. Other than that its a crap shoot but dont forget to check the warranty.

Crazy mounting:
On my old school machine the mid tower case had a mounting plate for the psu, not sure if those are still available/used but anyway it allowed me to mount the power supply upside down. I removed the top of the PC case (drilled out the rivets and later replace with nice stainless steel screws) and cut a matching hole, a CD makes a nice template for a 120mm fan hole with a jigsaw and metal blade. Round foam weatherstrip formed in a ring seals the top (well it was the bottom) of the power supply to the underside of the case top. Remove the nice wire finger guard from the bottom (now top) fan and installed it on the top of the case top. The power supply now sucks in cool room air in through the top of the computer case and exhausts it out the back like normal. This supply is 5 years old and it was not a high priced (TTGI 450W powering a NF7-s OCed Barton Mobile with standard stuff, ati agp video card, 2 HDs , CD , floppy, and a water cooling pump. ) I figure most days the difference between room ambient and case ambient is 8C. So I am reducing the internal temp of the power supply components by that much at least. The old rule of thumb for electronics is that for ever 10C reduction in operating temp you double the life. This of course no longer really applies but the basic premise does and electrolytic caps degrade fast under high temps. Also their performance is degraded by temp. So it pays to keep the most heat sensitive part of a power supply as cool as possible and of course the other components inside, while not as susceptible to heat, will be "happier" as well.

(bejezzus I wish the 8800GTs would drop in price so I had something else to do. :) )

No disrespect to the poster above, that OCZ is good and I agree about what he says about power requirements, but newegg reviews are 99.9% done by people that have no clue. Highly entertaining however.
 
BillParrish said:
Insane amount of useful information...
Click to expand...

Wow. Thanks for all the info and the sort, I was not expecting that much. It's pretty hard to convey emotions through the internet so a smiley face will have to do. :)

On a similar note, I found many reviews online for the GameXStream 700W. Many of them tend to be favorable but I was not able to find a review from [H]. Would you buy it for your PC? I know that I don't need 700W, that's about 200W more than what I need.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/OCZ/GameXStream700W
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/397/7 - Not as favorable as the above one, states they use Taiwanese capacitors, and is missing features. Found out it is made by Forton.
http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/OCZ_GameXStream_700W_7.html
 
I think that Neo480 you had is around the same time they made Truepower 2.0's. I had 550w and everything I read about them says they die after 2 years. Mine didn't die but it had leaking caps, Antec replaced it with a trio 550w.

All the power supplies I have used have lasted 5 or 6 years (maybe longer, thats just when I get a new pc and stop using the old one). I just think Antec dropped the ball a few years back.
 
Danny Bui said:
Wouldn't touch that GameXStream PSU if I were you. It has out of spec ripple, or voltage fluctuations at high loads that will damage your parts over time. Here's the review that found that problem:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=35

As for all those other GameXStream reviews, BBQ, more or less a PSU expert/nut here in the forums made an excellent post about all those improper PSU reviews:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031488614&postcount=21
Click to expand...

I don't know if I would trust that review. That PSU is so well known and loved. Its hard to justify not buying it because of 1 bad review out of like 10.
 
BillParrish said:
No most likely bout it, its dead. Thats probably inductor squeal because a cap is gone and the inductor is getting way more AC on the input voltage than it was designed for probably at the switching frequency and a lower harmonic is causing the inductor to vibrate/"ring" at some harmonic that you can hear. Stop tying to power it up you could damage something else.

About Power Supply Life:
As mentioned in posts above, unless abused (overloaded or you pour a coke in one) the caps are probably, most of the time, maybe, going to determine the life of the unit. The life of the caps depends on their quality of construction. The primary indicators of this is the temp rating and ESR. The temp rating can be easily found as it tends to be stamped on the cap. ESR (equivalent series resistance) is something you have to go to a data sheet to find out. I have power supplies that are 5+ years and I am not worried about them.

If you want a supply to live as long as possible here are my recommendations all based on the fact that heat kills.

1) A good quality supply with the filter caps rated at 105C (those are the big caps)
2) Over spec the supply by 25% over any future possible load.
3) a 120mm min. fan (there are some good supply's with an just 80 but not many.
4) Good airflow in the case means that CPU heat is mainly exhausted by other fans (the rear one by the CPU should be a 120mm fan. You really do not want the power supply pulling in hot top of the case air, at least as much as you can prevent it. See crazy mounting suggestion below for extreme solution. Good strong front lower intake fan, again a 120mm, even low speed, is preferred to provide plenty of cool intake air. If you have a high performance video card, do everything possible to get the heat it exhausts out of the case, side fan/vent whatever. This item is probally the most important, if you can keep the temps inside the power supply low, the temp rating of the caps does not matter as much.

Corsair VX-550 but still do the above. (Disclaimer, I have one, love it)
OCZ 600W unit is OK too.

Probably many other but those are the only two I have looked hard at. Jonnyguru.com and the main page here at [H] have good reviews. If a review does not put the supply on a commercial load tester and tear it apart and comment on the caps used and the other components, ignore it. Ripple is an indication of marginal caps as the LC (inductor - capacitor) filtering is not designed well and the ripple (which is a small AC signal riding on top of the DC voltage) will cause internal capacitor heating as well as in general not be good for your motherboard and its capacitors which have to further try to filter the DC. Some ripple is always going to be there, but I use low ripple as a yardstick as to the design quality of the supply. There are crappy supplies with low ripple but there are not any good supplies with high ripple. Heavy is good too but the shipping weights in general cannot be relied on, sometimes the manuf spec on their web page lists it. Other than that its a crap shoot but dont forget to check the warranty.

Crazy mounting:
On my old school machine the mid tower case had a mounting plate for the psu, not sure if those are still available/used but anyway it allowed me to mount the power supply upside down. I removed the top of the PC case (drilled out the rivets and later replace with nice stainless steel screws) and cut a matching hole, a CD makes a nice template for a 120mm fan hole with a jigsaw and metal blade. Round foam weatherstrip formed in a ring seals the top (well it was the bottom) of the power supply to the underside of the case top. Remove the nice wire finger guard from the bottom (now top) fan and installed it on the top of the case top. The power supply now sucks in cool room air in through the top of the computer case and exhausts it out the back like normal. This supply is 5 years old and it was not a high priced (TTGI 450W powering a NF7-s OCed Barton Mobile with standard stuff, ati agp video card, 2 HDs , CD , floppy, and a water cooling pump. ) I figure most days the difference between room ambient and case ambient is 8C. So I am reducing the internal temp of the power supply components by that much at least. The old rule of thumb for electronics is that for ever 10C reduction in operating temp you double the life. This of course no longer really applies but the basic premise does and electrolytic caps degrade fast under high temps. Also their performance is degraded by temp. So it pays to keep the most heat sensitive part of a power supply as cool as possible and of course the other components inside, while not as susceptible to heat, will be "happier" as well.

(bejezzus I wish the 8800GTs would drop in price so I had something else to do. :) )

No disrespect to the poster above, that OCZ is good and I agree about what he says about power requirements, but newegg reviews are 99.9% done by people that have no clue. Highly entertaining however.
Click to expand...

nice post :)
 
Gabe3 said:
I don't know if I would trust that review. That PSU is so well known and loved. Its hard to justify not buying it because of 1 bad review out of like 10.
Click to expand...

You must be new to the power supply forum....

1) JonnyGuru is one of the few power supply review sites you actually can trust.

2) The Epsilon architecture is well known, for power ripple. :rolleyes:
 
Rabid Badger said:
You must be new to the power supply forum....

1) JonnyGuru is one of the few power supply review sites you actually can trust.

2) The Epsilon architecture is well known, for power ripple. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I am new to the powersupply forum on this site, lol. But in my opinion theres not really a PSU much better then the gameXstream
 
Gabe3 said:
I am new to the powersupply forum on this site, lol. But in my opinion theres not really a PSU much better then the gameXstream
Click to expand...
:eek::confused:Where did you pull your opinion from?

Wait...no..some things are best left unsaid.
 
Well Johnny did in fact give the PSU an 8. It's not like he condemned it to hell like you are doing simply because someone else isn't kissing its ass.

The ripple was only a factor at 700W as well, and seeing how most people can't even push half that.. it's hardly a PSU to avoid like the plague.
 
Menelmarar said:
:eek::confused:Where did you pull your opinion from?

Wait...no..some things are best left unsaid.
Click to expand...

Lol. Well I will tell you anyway. Because of all the reviews I've seen for it, all the people in overclocking forums that have it. And its 500 reviews with 5 stars on newegg. More reviews/ higher rating then any other PSU on newegg.
 
Gabe3 said:
Lol. Well I will tell you anyway. Because of all the reviews I've seen for it, all the people in overclocking forums that have it. And its 500 reviews with 5 stars on newegg. More reviews/ higher rating then any other PSU on newegg.
Click to expand...

Ah, Newegg reviews. Actually, if you go by that measuring stick, the Thermaltake TR2 430W is the greatest power supply of all time. Riiiiight.
 
Rabid Badger said:
I'm pretty sure the NeoPower has Fujhyyu capacitors which are famous for failing.

The Corsair HX520 will power that system nicely.
Click to expand...

The new Antec NeoPower units and the Corsair units are both built by Seasonic and both got really good reviews by JG.

ZZF had some really good deals on the Corsair 620 units and they have modular cables. Same good deal applies to the Corsair 650 which is a single rail unit which once again seems to be the trend (a number of motherboards have been having issues of late with three and 4 rail PSUs) and of course good deals on the new Seasonic built Antec 650.
 
I guess the average life should be more than 4-5 years, at least, for a PSU. I know a person who STILL uses a 12 years old PC which is running virtually non-stop since the day he purchased it.

One of my computers failed to start after I shut it down to replace a HD last Friday. I figured out it was the PSU (2 years old Coolmax 450W) which went bad (I know Coolmax is not a "recommended" brand, but I went for it due to budget concerns).

Some PSU makers, like Coolmax (at least for the model I had), do not even list the warranty information ANYWHERE . I guess these brands/models must be avoided at any cost.

Reading PSU reviews in NewEgg has both pros and cons. So many good reviews do not necessarily mean that the PSU is going to be good in the long-run.
 
Rabid Badger said:
Ah, Newegg reviews. Actually, if you go by that measuring stick, the Thermaltake TR2 430W is the greatest power supply of all time. Riiiiight.
Click to expand...

I guess I have to be more clear for some people. I meant PSUs that are for higher end computers. Not some dell desktop with a P4 in it.
 
Gabe3 said:
I am new to the powersupply forum on this site, lol. But in my opinion theres not really a PSU much better then the gameXstream
Click to expand...

It's a good power supply, yes, but can't handle high loads. Doing so causes lots of ATX ripple ... which isn't very good for your components.
 
So should I buy this friggin thing or not? This seems to be a mixed opinion type of thing.

I don't think I will reach 700W. If anything, I will most likely stay under 500W.
 
clockworks said:
So should I buy this friggin thing or not? This seems to be a mixed opinion type of thing.

I don't think I will reach 700W. If anything, I will most likely stay under 500W.
Click to expand...

Read up on the cons people say of the gameXsteam and some of the other competitors on newegg. If you find a better candidate, go for it. I don't anything that really jumps out.

Maybe one of the antec's? I know two people who had a antec go bad on them. I would stay away from them, but people do like them so I'm not saying its a bad brand. I guess they have bad manufacturing procedures.
 
Gabe3 said:
Lol. Well I will tell you anyway. Because of all the reviews I've seen for it, all the people in overclocking forums that have it. And its 500 reviews with 5 stars on newegg. More reviews/ higher rating then any other PSU on newegg.
Click to expand...
You quote newegg reviews. Any joe schmoe can post newegg reviews. They are all uninformed garbage responses. These are not valid references.

Substantiate your claim of "Because of all the reviews I've seen" and maybe your argument will have a little substance. Until then, anything you say just falls into the BS category.
 
Menelmarar said:
You quote newegg reviews. Any joe schmoe can post newegg reviews. They are all uninformed garbage responses. These are not valid references.

Substantiate your claim of "Because of all the reviews I've seen" and maybe your argument will have a little substance. Until then, anything you say just falls into the BS category.
Click to expand...

If you can read, you would know I like the PSU because of the good things overclockers say about it. Not only because of the amount of reviews/stars it has on newegg.
 
Gabe3 said:
If you can read, you would know I like the PSU because of the good things overclockers say about it. Not only because of the amount of reviews/stars it has on newegg.
Click to expand...

You seem to have already made your mind up based on anonymous user reviews, not very sensible. Do they follow up later when things go wrong?
I can bet that they wont want to let you know of a problem if they gave it a glowing review and then it died as people hate being seen as giving bad advice.

You're best off reading [H]'s or JonnyGurus PSU reviews and choosing one of good pedigree that suits your needs.
Why risk using a PSU that has a known issue, seems silly to me.
 
Nenu said:
You're best off reading [H]'s or JonnyGurus PSU reviews and choosing one of good pedigree that suits your needs.
Why risk using a PSU that has a known issue, seems silly to me.
Click to expand...

If you had actually read Johnny's review of it you would see he gave it an 8 and said that if they fixed the ripple (which is possible since the initial review) that it would set a new standard. So maybe an 8 out of 10 on his scale means it is shit.. but somehow I doubt it.
 
Gabe3 said:
I guess I have to be more clear for some people. I meant PSUs that are for higher end computers. Not some dell desktop with a P4 in it.
Click to expand...

Dell actually has pretty decent power supplies, the reason people think they are bad is that Dell puts a power supply in your pc for the amount of power it is going to draw. Which causes problems when you try to add hardware because you overdraw what the powersupply was meant for. The power supplies are pretty good its just that they are beefy.
 
clockworks said:
So should I buy this friggin thing or not? This seems to be a mixed opinion type of thing.

I don't think I will reach 700W. If anything, I will most likely stay under 500W.
Click to expand...

No you should not. Yes you won't reach 700W and it's somewhat decent but why pay for a PSU with a higher potential damaging your system?

I recommend any of these PSUs instead:
Corsair 450VX 450W PSU - $70
Corsair 550VX 550W PSU - $91
Corsair 520HX 520W PSU - $101
Corsair 650TX 650W PSU - $137
Corsair 620HX 620W PSU - $140
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $154
Silverstone SST-ST75ZF Zeus 750W Power Supply - $160
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad - $161
 
Nenu said:
You seem to have already made your mind up based on anonymous user reviews, not very sensible. Do they follow up later when things go wrong?
I can bet that they wont want to let you know of a problem if they gave it a glowing review and then it died as people hate being seen as giving bad advice.

You're best off reading [H]'s or JonnyGurus PSU reviews and choosing one of good pedigree that suits your needs.
Why risk using a PSU that has a known issue, seems silly to me.
Click to expand...

Like I said I don't base my opinion off only newegg reviews, its just a rule of thumb.


Anyway. Clockworks you could post a thread in the http://www.jonnyguru.net/forums/ forums. Asking what PSU they prefer for you. Plus I bet theres stickys that have some PSU's they suggest too.
 
rhagz said:
If you had actually read Johnny's review of it you would see he gave it an 8 and said that if they fixed the ripple (which is possible since the initial review) that it would set a new standard. So maybe an 8 out of 10 on his scale means it is shit.. but somehow I doubt it.
Click to expand...

It has a known issue, thats what I said.
If you want to read it as something else, I cant help that.
 
In that thread, the OP had already bought the PSU before knowing about the excees ripple problem and was told that he was fine since his load wouldn't stress the PSU. However, the OP of THIS thread hasn't bought the PSU and has been told of the ripple problem. So again, why pay for a PSU with a higher potential damaging your system?
 
Danny Bui said:
In that thread, the OP had already bought the PSU before knowing about the excees ripple problem and was told that he was fine since his load wouldn't stress the PSU. However, the OP of THIS thread hasn't bought the PSU and has been told of the ripple problem. So again, why pay for a PSU with a higher potential damaging your system?
Click to expand...

True.
 
Corsair 620HX. Can I get that with the promotion for 20 percent off if I use Paypal in conjunction with Newegg?

Is there anything I should know about this PSU that is faulty? I don't want to go through another Antec NeoPower scenario again where it had a known faulty component.
 
clockworks said:
Corsair 620HX. Can I get that with the promotion for 20 percent off if I use Paypal in conjunction with Newegg?

Is there anything I should know about this PSU that is faulty? I don't want to go through another Antec NeoPower scenario again where it had a known faulty component.
Click to expand...

There are no known problems with the HX620W.

If you have any issues, feel free to post them here or PM me and I'll take care of it somehow.
 
"Well, you're not loading it up to 700w, the ripple isn't a problem then if you don't use it to 700w"

Then why buy a 700w psu? If i'm Paying for a 700w psu, it better work perfectly up to 700w.

"Ripple isn't a problem because there are no dead ocz gxs' that were caused by ripple"

Ripples, like aids, take time to really affect things. Once they do though..


I only see the jonnyguru and [H] review that are not favorable to the OCZ GameXstream. everyone else and their dog love the psu to death.


Test system isn't proper test methodology. PWM filters ripple (which is what it's designed to do) so you get a reading that's way off, on a load that's much less than the full load of the psu.


HX 620.
 
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