Sharp 700UN as monitor: Quality & Performance Review

I posted this in the Westy thread, started a thread in Hot Deals, and also crossposted at Slickdeals, but I thought I would mention it here as well that I just picked up this TV as a refurb for $758.99 shipped after 15% bcb at TD. Possibly a little over enthusiastic about this, but I think it's an outstanding price.
 
really want to try out this sharp but no cash at the moment. stuck with the panasonic L42U12 for now.
 
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bestbuy.com just had this monitor for around $750 give or take $50. They are all out of stock now.
 
SJetski71 said:
I don't think you're missing that much, the Panasonic L42U12 has a nice IPS panel and low input lag (0 to 20ms) --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18577156&postcount=961

You got lucky :)
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heh.. you're right. it's served me well...the only thing i didn't like is the weird thing where there's too much red. there is no way to adjust colors individually.

i was currently trying out the 120hz (advertised) L42U25 and i really like the MotionPicturePro feature. i watch movies a lot thru my pc. when MotionPicturePro is set to Weak, it takes some of the blur away and smooths the motion a little. when put to Strong, it fully dejudders videos making them completely smooth. i didn't really notice that much extra lag, not enough to make me stop watching. problem with the L42U25 is there is always postprocessing on for some reason. artifacts can be seen around text when using the pc. it's not as bad in Windows 7, but pretty obvious in XP. maybe i need to play with the ClearType. the screen overall looks more grainy. black levels are darker, but there is some weird dynamic contrast thing going on, especially if the screen is dark and then a spot of light appears. the entire black area lightens. it didn't happen on my other sets. setting Black Level to Dark fixed some instances, but i couldn't disable the effect completely.

i wanted to see how the sharp performs as far as reducing blur with the FineMotion Enhancement. it's LED so i was thinking the black levels would be darker (maybe save some money?? my L42U12 doesn't seem to get very warm compared to my old Westinghouse 37W3se though...) i wanted to see if it has the same issue with too intense reds. the L42U25, after using it for a couple days, seems to exhibit less intense reds, but intense, practically neon, greens. watching the celtics at boston garden looked WEIRD. i saw it had similar issues with some colored fonts. the 40" model doesn't have dejudder, right, so no smoothing?

does anyone happen to know firsthand how the Sharp performs in terms of black levels, color accuracy, and motion quality compared to the L42U12? also, how much lag is there with Game Mode off? any help would be greatly appreciated; currently i'm deciding whether or not i should sell this Panny to a friend in need :)
 
I got one of these last week to replace a Westinghouse and am slightly disappointed. Everything is great except for the overall image quality, it's hard to describe but colors don't appear to be all that "smooth" , you can really notice it on certain video's and images. I might be just nit-picking though.
 
Could you describe the problem in more detail. The colors on my set are great, like looking through a window. The individual colors can be adjusted for hue, saturation, and value in the advanced menu as well. The gamma was off for me in Movie and Game mode with some color crush, but in PC mode gamma is 2.2 on the spot and there was much less color crushing. Try going into PC mode and calibrating with http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/index.php
 
Ryom said:
Could you describe the problem in more detail. The colors on my set are great, like looking through a window. The individual colors can be adjusted for hue, saturation, and value in the advanced menu as well. The gamma was off for me in Movie and Game mode with some color crush, but in PC mode gamma is 2.2 on the spot and there was much less color crushing. Try going into PC mode and calibrating with http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/index.php
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It appears to be very faint vertical lines about every other pixel, more noticeable on drastic color changes , edges appear to be jagged. Extreme hard to describe, sorry.
 
I just got mine today and hooked it up as well. I too am disappointed so far, but I haven't tinkered with it too much yet.

First of all, and most seriously, I cannot get full screen resolution from my PC. No idea what the problem is. I have a Radeon 4850, and it's set to 1920x1080 resolution on the PC end. I have it plugged into HDMI 6 using a DVI-HDMI cable. I have it set to Dot by Dot. It says Video: 1080p when I hit display. Yet there's an inch and a half of black border on each side of my screen, and an inch on the top and bottom. I've tried switching between all the A/V modes and no effect. The Auto Sync and Fine Sync options are not available over HDMI, only VGA. The Position mode also is not available in 1080p mode.

And when I click to a new website, the picture starts out dark and then brightens to my current settings. This happens almost every time I click to a new page.

Also, the text quality is atrocious compared to the Westy. Yes the black levels are nice. But using this primarily as a PC monitor, I think overall text is more important, and I feel the Westy was way better as a PC monitor. "So far" - hopefully things will change as I play with it more.
 
can't you just adjust the Scaling Options in Catalyst Control Center to get rid of the underscan? i had to do the same thing with my panasonic connected to a 4850.



facesnorth said:
I just got mine today and hooked it up as well. I too am disappointed so far, but I haven't tinkered with it too much yet.

First of all, and most seriously, I cannot get full screen resolution from my PC. No idea what the problem is. I have a Radeon 4850, and it's set to 1920x1080 resolution on the PC end. I have it plugged into HDMI 6 using a DVI-HDMI cable. I have it set to Dot by Dot. It says Video: 1080p when I hit display. Yet there's an inch and a half of black border on each side of my screen, and an inch on the top and bottom. I've tried switching between all the A/V modes and no effect. The Auto Sync and Fine Sync options are not available over HDMI, only VGA. The Position mode also is not available in 1080p mode.

And when I click to a new website, the picture starts out dark and then brightens to my current settings. This happens almost every time I click to a new page.

Also, the text quality is atrocious compared to the Westy. Yes the black levels are nice. But using this primarily as a PC monitor, I think overall text is more important, and I feel the Westy was way better as a PC monitor. "So far" - hopefully things will change as I play with it more.
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senakun said:
can't you just adjust the Scaling Options in Catalyst Control Center to get rid of the underscan? i had to do the same thing with my panasonic connected to a 4850.
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I would love to find the option, but I searched through every option in CCC and don't see how. I have version 2010.0302.2233.40414 installed.
 
I did just put a blu ray on, and the picture was excellent for that. One reason I was looking forward to this is for when I occasionally watch tv shows streamed off the network sites, if I miss a show on TV or if I want to watch extra scenes/footage. I'm hoping when I get the dot by dot working correctly that the text looks a little better. Then the main issue for me will be why it darkens every time I click to a new web page. OPC is disabled, what's the deal with that?
 
facesnorth said:
I would love to find the option, but I searched through every option in CCC and don't see how. I have version 2010.0302.2233.40414 installed.
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Go to Desktops & Displays. Right click on the display in the lower left and click on "Configure". Click on the "Scaling Options" tab and change it to 0.
 
does your CCC list the available monitors at the bottom of the window as icons? if so, you can right-click on the appropriate display and select Configure. it should be one of the tabs, along with Color and LCD Overdrive.
 
Yea, text and image quality will always be terrible when your scaling isn't correct. Your text will look perfect after you've figured that part out.

You'll either have to dig a little further to find the scaling option or download a driver version that contains it. The screen darkening and lightening when you flip webpages probably means you're not done tweaking yet, it might be some contrast feature in the TV menu.

TV's don't behave exactly like monitors, they take some tweak time to get looking right. So until you're finished be patient and reserve your judgement till then ;).

Give us a followup review and honest opinion when you're done tweaking :)


sethk said:
the Panasonic L42U12 has 0-22ms compared to another LCD panel (i.e. in addition to the lag of the Samsung LCD). That's not the same as 0-22ms lag.
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Good catch, edited my post above.
 
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diehard said:
It appears to be very faint vertical lines about every other pixel, more noticeable on drastic color changes , edges appear to be jagged. Extreme hard to describe, sorry.
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Is your sharpness set to Zero and view mode to dot by dot, and are you using PC mode? Settings are PER input so I'd recommend enabling 120Hz on movie mode, and disabling all processing in game mode (even fine motion), and using PC mode as your general use mode.
 
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facesnorth said:
I did just put a blu ray on, and the picture was excellent for that. One reason I was looking forward to this is for when I occasionally watch tv shows streamed off the network sites, if I miss a show on TV or if I want to watch extra scenes/footage. I'm hoping when I get the dot by dot working correctly that the text looks a little better. Then the main issue for me will be why it darkens every time I click to a new web page. OPC is disabled, what's the deal with that?
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Turn off Auto-Contrast in the Picture->Advanced menu, and turn off Power Saving in the Power Control top level menu. Both of these will cause picture level changes.

These are my settings:
OPC: Off
Backlight: -16
Contrast: +32
Brightness: 0
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

ADVANCED
Hue: all 0
Sat: R: -10, Y: 0, G: -10, C: 0, B: -20, M: -10
Val: R: -10, Y: 0, G: -6, C: 0, B: -10, M: -10
Temp: Middle
Gamma: -2 (only in movie and game mode, PC mode is 0)
Digital Noise Reduction: OFF


Power Saving: OFF

View-Mode: Dot by Dot
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Once you've got is setup right, it should be like looking into a window. Mine is! :)
 
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Haste266 said:
Go to Desktops & Displays. Right click on the display in the lower left and click on "Configure". Click on the "Scaling Options" tab and change it to 0.
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Dude, thanks a million. You're a lifesaver. It's already a billion times better. Now I can at least see the "7" rating for text compared to the Westy's "10". Fortunately, everything else is 50 times better. OK I'm feeling better now. I'd even upgraded the firmware and everything.

I'm still having issues with the OPC seeming to kick in even when I have it disabled. I went in a changed the OPC range though from 0 to +1 to limit what it does. Unfortunately, I can't make it 0 to 0. Yes it is disabled though at the top of the options. Don't know what it's problem is.

Other odd issue was when I was trying to upgrade the firmware. I tried my Kingston 8GB usb key, formatted to FAT32 and then tried again as exFAT. When I stick it in the TV, it jumps right to the USB mode, but said something like it couldn't detect any USB files. Then I tried going to software update and it wouldn't find the files. I did the same thing over again with a compact flash reader, same issues. Then I plugged in an external 20gb HD in my nexstar enclosure with its own power, and it still gave me the same message when it clicked over to the USB mode, but when I tried software update, it worked.
 
Ryom said:
Turn off Auto-Contrast in the Picture->Advanced menu, and turn off Power Saving in the Power Control top level menu. Both of these will cause picture level changes.
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Aha, I had power savings mode on standard. I'll give that a shot turning it off. Am I going to use a lot more power now though?

edit: yes, the contrast seems to have stabilized now. Whatever the case, it's worth the extra power savings by not driving me nuts.
 
Zero dead/hot/stuck/lit pixels that I can see. I don't hear any backlight buzz either, certainly not over my PC. The backlight seems very even as well. There is a slight bit of "banding" on certain backgrounds - greys and clouds, which seems to plague all Sharp LCD's, but I've gotten used to it on my LC-46D64U already, and this one is not nearly as bad as that is - and that one's not too bad.

I think I'm definitely going to be able to live with this, and I haven't even dialed it in too much yet. I'm going to play around with the Avia, and Spears & Munsil discs for calibrating.

Now here's hoping the refund goes smoothly on my Westy with Costco.
 
Also, for those who may be interested in the details of my refurb, when I went into the Service menu, I noticed that "Center Acutime" was 3 hours and "Backlight Acutime" was 16.5 hours. There's also a reset button beneath each, so I'm not sure how accurate either is. I'd imagine either it means something related to "Center Acutime" was replaced in the refurb process, or else it was reset at some point.

edit: For kicks, I just tried the same service menu procedure on my LC-46D64U and it worked. I'd never known how to get into the Service Menu in the 2.5 years I've owned it. I checked the same figures "Center Acutime" and "Backlight Acutime" and they were 1 hour and 6274 hours, respectively. So I guess the 3 hours on my 700UN doesn't mean much, in fact I have no idea what it refers to. I feel good about the fact that my refurb only has 16 hours, though. Glad to know it wasn't some display model at a retail store.
 
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facesnorth said:
Aha, I had power savings mode on standard. I'll give that a shot turning it off. Am I going to use a lot more power now though?

edit: yes, the contrast seems to have stabilized now. Whatever the case, it's worth the extra power savings by not driving me nuts.
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Doubt it... this display is VERY, VERY power friendly. Even with power save off it is using exactly 45 watts at -16 backlight. My Westy was using HUNDREDS of watts. With the backlight way up the Sharp only uses a bit over 100 watts.

Calibrate in PC mode, otherwise your gamma will be around 1.8 instead of 2.2 if you are going to be doing anything remotely color-critical. Set your gamma to -2 in the advanced menu for Game and Movie mode if you intend to use them (pc mode does have more input lag than game mode) to get the gamma more in line with the standard.
 
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Not a huge multiplayer gamer so lag actually isn't even a concern of mine. Is PC going to get me closest to D65K? I thought Cinema usually was closer. I am starting to play around with photography/RAW images/Photoshop, so color accuracy is important to me. Right now my backlight is at 0/standard. I think it's too bright, though, so I will prob lower it if not all the way to -16 then close to it.
 
Ryom said:
Calibrate in PC mode, otherwise your gamma will be around 1.8 instead of 2.2 if you are going to be doing anything remotely color-critical. Set your gamma to -2 in the advanced menu for Game and Movie mode if you intend to use them (pc mode does have more input lag than game mode) to get the gamma more in line with the standard.
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I went to PC mode and put it to your settings to check it out for a while. It's "cooler" than what I had it at. I was on Movie mode and had the Color temp set to Low. I was used to that generally being closest to D65K. I wish I had a spectroradiometer. This TV is honestly nice enough that it would be worth paying a pro calibrator to do the works on it. That is something I would like to learn how to do for myself, though.
 
I'm still in awe over the difference it took on once I got the scaling correct. The appearance of the fonts and text is like night and day. I knew it would look better, but I didn't realize it would look this much better. I was honestly regretting this for most of the day and now I'm loving it. So glad I ditched the Westy for this....
 
facesnorth said:
Not a huge multiplayer gamer so lag actually isn't even a concern of mine. Is PC going to get me closest to D65K? I thought Cinema usually was closer. I am starting to play around with photography/RAW images/Photoshop, so color accuracy is important to me. Right now my backlight is at 0/standard. I think it's too bright, though, so I will prob lower it if not all the way to -16 then close to it.
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Sharp says that the set is calibrated at the factory and professional calibration should be unnecessary, so movie mode should be VERY close to D65K, and PC mode should be close to 2.2 gamma. Also, check your PMs... there is something I'd like you to help me with ;)
 
Ryom said:
Is your sharpness set to Zero and view mode to dot by dot, and are you using PC mode? Settings are PER input so I'd recommend enabling 120Hz on movie mode, and disabling all processing in game mode (even fine motion), and using PC mode as your general use mode.
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Yes, tried all recommended settings and more. Thinking about returning it and coughing up the cash for a 3008wfp.
 
Ryom said:
Sharp says that the set is calibrated at the factory and professional calibration should be unnecessary, so movie mode should be VERY close to D65K, and PC mode should be close to 2.2 gamma. Also, check your PMs... there is something I'd like you to help me with ;)
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Interesting. But Movie mode at what color temperature would be D65 - Low?

And so if I'm going to watch a streamed tv show off one of the network broadcast sites, or pop in a blu-ray, I should switch it to Movie? But while using my PC for web browsing, or photo editing/viewing, set it to PC? And if I use the PC for gaming, or turn on my PS3/360/Wii, I set it to Game for the low-lag feature? Thanks.

Also, I responded to your PM. Is anyone confirmed not to have that issue? Gives me something else to worry about now.
 
Ryom said:
Sharp says that the set is calibrated at the factory and professional calibration should be unnecessary, so movie mode should be VERY close to D65K, and PC mode should be close to 2.2 gamma. Also, check your PMs... there is something I'd like you to help me with ;)
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Well, this is far from being true on my unit. I had to severy modify the picture settings (white balance) to achieve D65 under Movie mode + warm 2. The calibration was performed using the Chroma 5 colorimeter + CalMAN software.
 
Just reporting what the Sharp reps told me. I doubt they are perfectly calibrated, but from the fact that Sharp is willing to state that as a fact makes me fairly certain that they at least get it as close as they can. Whether that is good enough is for the owner to decide.
 
facesnorth said:
Interesting. But Movie mode at what color temperature would be D65 - Low?

And so if I'm going to watch a streamed tv show off one of the network broadcast sites, or pop in a blu-ray, I should switch it to Movie? But while using my PC for web browsing, or photo editing/viewing, set it to PC? And if I use the PC for gaming, or turn on my PS3/360/Wii, I set it to Game for the low-lag feature? Thanks.

Also, I responded to your PM. Is anyone confirmed not to have that issue? Gives me something else to worry about now.
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I keep the 120hz feature on in movie mode and switch over to that any time I watch a movie because I like the smoothing effect. Game mode is good for anything requiring timing precision, but there isn't any real reason to switch out of PC mode if you are just playing Peggle. I wish I could disable the other modes so I don't have to switch past them every time, but that's a minor complaint.
 
RadXge said:
Well, this is far from being true on my unit. I had to severy modify the picture settings (white balance) to achieve D65 under Movie mode + warm 2. The calibration was performed using the Chroma 5 colorimeter + CalMAN software.
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Are you a calibrator, or did you just buy them as a hobbyist? I'm interested in buying an EyeOne Pro, a Chroma 5, and CalMan. I don't want to become a full time calibrator, but just as side business locally. Hiring a calibrator is so expensive, that it's worth it to me to buy the equipment, and I'm interested enough in it to try and do it on the side. What kind of training have you undertaken to learn how to do it?

And Ryom, I don't think it's realistic that any TV is calibrated out of the factory. I've frequently received wrong information from Sharp Aquos support via email about their products, sometimes even when they claim to have verified with their engineers. For example, they told me that my Sharp LC-46D64U was a 12-bit unit.

Ryom said:
I keep the 120hz feature on in movie mode and switch over to that any time I watch a movie because I like the smoothing effect. Game mode is good for anything requiring timing precision, but there isn't any real reason to switch out of PC mode if you are just playing Peggle. I wish I could disable the other modes so I don't have to switch past them every time, but that's a minor complaint.
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Generally, I have found that activating the 120Hz modes will disable 5:5 on a 1080p24 bluray. If that is true on this set, I would actually make sure that it's off when watching a blu-ray, or even a DVD on a player that can convert it to 24fps.

The Dynamic A/V modes are pathetic.
 
does anyone know how the 40LE810UN compares? it's the only Sharp 40" 120hz LED i saw at best buy.
 
senakun said:
does anyone know how the 40LE810UN compares? it's the only Sharp 40" 120hz LED i saw at best buy.
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What will your main uses be?

Mostly TV + light pc and casual gaming?

Or mostly PC use with heavy multiplayer gaming combined with occasional TV use?



if it's mostly for TV use then try searching the model number in this forum to see what people say: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=166

if it's mainly for PC use with a good amount of multi player gaming then i don't think it's been tested yet, which means it "may" have high input lag, or possibly have trouble with certain colored fonts. Sharp has a decent track record for low input lag, but you'd still be a guinea pig.
 
mostly pc use and watching movies over pc. i game once in a while, rarely online.i watch some tv as well but not much. the one of the probs i've had with the panasonic L42U12 is the motion quality especially when there's panning in 24p videos. guess i'll have to test things out myself! thanks for looking into it for me, SJetski71.

SJetski71 said:
What will your main uses be?

Mostly TV + light pc and casual gaming?

Or mostly PC use with heavy multiplayer gaming combined with occasional TV use?



if it's mostly for TV use then try searching the model number in this forum to see what people say: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=166

if it's mainly for PC use with a good amount of multi player gaming then i don't think it's been tested yet, which means it "may" have high input lag, or possibly have trouble with certain colored fonts. Sharp has a decent track record for low input lag, but you'd still be a guinea pig.
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facesnorth said:
Are you a calibrator, or did you just buy them as a hobbyist? I'm interested in buying an EyeOne Pro, a Chroma 5, and CalMan. I don't want to become a full time calibrator, but just as side business locally. Hiring a calibrator is so expensive, that it's worth it to me to buy the equipment, and I'm interested enough in it to try and do it on the side. What kind of training have you undertaken to learn how to do it?
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I am a simple TV enthusiast.
The following is a very good article for determining which meter is better for you.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11436
If you only buy one meter I recommend the Chroma 5 over the EyeOne Pro. The EyeOne Pro is significantly slower, requires to be reset every 15 minutes again a black object and is not very accurate at low stimulus. However, the Eyeone Pro is more accurate for calibrating the primaries and secondaries.

In order to get you started, I recommend that you read the following calibration guide.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Remember that performing a calibration is a mix of art and science. It took me 4 hours to perform my first calibration but now I can do it in one hour if the monitor/tv is cooperative.
 
RadXge said:
I am a simple TV enthusiast.
The following is a very good article for determining which meter is better for you.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11436
If you only buy one meter I recommend the Chroma 5 over the EyeOne Pro. The EyeOne Pro is significantly slower, requires to be reset every 15 minutes again a black object and is not very accurate at low stimulus. However, the Eyeone Pro is more accurate for calibrating the primaries and secondaries.

In order to get you started, I recommend that you read the following calibration guide.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Remember that performing a calibration is a mix of art and science. It took me 4 hours to perform my first calibration but now I can do it in one hour if the monitor/tv is cooperative.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I've read those articles, but I appreciate the reminders. I've been tempted to cought up the $2200 or so on CalMan Enthusiast, an EyeOne Pro, a Chroma 5, and a DPG-1200 pattern generator. If only I had it. But I need a small business to develop and this is something I am really interested in, and I know I'd be good at it. So I'm thinking of saving up for it. It might not be a bad idea just to get the Chroma 5 first, like you said, but there's some price incentives to get a package deal. I wonder if I should take any classes or anything like that.
 
I went to Costco and tested for gray smearing on the floor model, it was also present there. So it is looking like this is a widespread problem with the model. I've had a few others confirm it on their home sets.

Something to be aware of if you are looking at this set now.
 
I wonder how much of a problem this is going to turn out to be? I haven't used my set MUCH yet aside from PC/web browsing mostly. A few 360 games, and I streamed one Lost episode off of abc. Haven't had a problem with this particular issue in real life viewing. I do see it if I perform the test, though. Any movies or games that really seem to draw attention to the problem? I wonder how Sharp will end up dealing with this. I wonder if anyone will get a free upgrade to the 810UN? I think today or tomorrow is my last day to decide if I want to keep the set. I'm pretty sure I'll be keeping it, though, because I don't see this being a deal breaker for me. Fortunately, Costco accepted my return of my LVM-37W3 after 3 years of owning it. If this issue ends up becoming a nuisance, I'll have to deal with Sharp directly.
 
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