RTX 5xxx / RX 8xxx speculation

chameleoneel said:
AMD just released a Laptop Ryzen CPU with Vcache
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Yes, it's an absolute monster especially when it's on battery, it trashes Intels highest end. battery mode is about 25k Cinebench while Intels are all below 20k.
I remember my old 9900k hit about 10k and I was happy with it. Now I have 13900k which is around 39k and I honestly noticed no difference in apps or games (4k tho).
 
Axman said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPSB_BKd9Dg

MLID confirming what I suspected AMD is planning on doing (along with plenty of others). Chiefly, moving their "mid-range" up a tier in performance and dropping support for entry/mid-range graphics in favor of APUs with on-board graphics.

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/l...-point-apu-with-16-rdna3-5-compute-units.html

Strix Point, which is probably going to be the de-facto laptop chip for damn near everything will have 16 CUs while we already know Strix Halo will have 40. 16 CUs would roughly be a 8500-series graphics, while 40 would put it at 8700-series level. Which means that discrete graphics will probably start around 8700 and go up from there since there is literally no point in producing discrete graphics that's weaker than what an APU can bring, unless they spin up some crazy low-power discrete graphics for laptops running some kind of minimum graphics APU by the side, but that seems unlikely to me.
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Are those the 9700 pro kind of flames or 290x kind of flames coming out of the back of that card? Heh
 
With LG rumored to release their 42" OLEDs at 240hz next year I'm really hoping the 5090 can do 240fps at 4k (on most games with just raster, I know that's not with RT).
 
At this point commercial cards are selling for so much more than graphics cards, Nvidia would make more money by abandoning the gaming market. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens.
 
LeftSide said:
At this point commercial cards are selling for so much more than graphics cards, Nvidia would make more money by abandoning the gaming market. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens.
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Never put all your eggs in one basket.

Although, the basket is pretty future proof. However there's another basket called AMD that would get a lot of fat eggs. Nvidia can't have that.
 
To add to this, for how much does those laptop GPU goes, I could see great margin and selling all you can make could stop quite soon making it not an either one or the other situation.

Not making them the biggest size and not right away on the latest node like they seem to be planning to do (apple has TSMC N3 out now, pro line Nvidia n3 for 2024, 5xxx is rumoured for early 2025...) is probably the compromise to go with.

Ampere for example, the pro card used over 800mm TSMC 7 chips with 54,200 millions transistors, gaming side did not get close to that, the 3090 was about half that transistor count (28.3 millions with 628mm of Samsung 8nm), not sacrificing much to keep what is an excellent market and really hard for competition to enter in, probably way more than some section of the pro side because of the challenge of supporting legacy games that relied too so much drivers optimization strangeness).
 
LeftSide said:
At this point commercial cards are selling for so much more than graphics cards, Nvidia would make more money by abandoning the gaming market. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens.
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So Nvidia is just gonna completely abandon their 85% market share in the gaming GPU eh? Highly doubt it. Most they would do is just put in less way less effort and release subpar products at high prices and people would still buy Nvidia anyways.
 
MistaSparkul said:
So Nvidia is just gonna completely abandon their 85% market share in the gaming GPU eh? Highly doubt it. Most they would do is just put in less way less effort and release subpar products at high prices and people would still buy Nvidia anyways.
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nah man that would never happen
 
Rvenger said:
Yep, GDDR6X models in particular. 4070 and up.
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Interesting. Price creep for RTX 4090

An examination of current RTX 4090 pricing reveals that only the more costly GPUs are available. In addition, since they launched, the only card always at MSRP—Nvidia's Founders Edition—has almost disappeared. This GPU was a Best Buy exclusive, and we didn't even see it come up in a search for "RTX 4090." Once we narrowed the search to "Founders Edition," it appeared and was out of stock. According to Tom's Hardware's analysis, this is a new phenomenon for the card, indicating something is going on with the supply of these GPUs.

Sure, you can still buy an RTX 4090, but if you want one at MSRP, your only option right now appears to be the PNY version at Best Buy. Over on Amazon and Newegg, you won't find an MSRP card, which deviates from precedent. The least expensive cards are one from Galax for $1,654 on Amazon or a Gigabyte card on Newegg for $1,649. That means the smallest premium you'll pay is $50 over MSRP, but most available GPUs cost more than that, so you're looking at paying an additional $100 to $400 to own the world's most powerful GPU.

This situation seems to result from what we reported in August: that Nvidia was shifting production of its biggest chips to its AI accelerators, where margins are much higher. The same report said retailers were also finding the supply of RTX 4090s severely constrained, which aligns with what we're seeing now. Restricting the supply of the RTX 4090 is also a way to ensure prices remain high while helping the company divert precious TSMC resources to its AI chips. The true source of this price creep remains elusive. But it also seems certain that the lack of competition isn't helping.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/nvidia-rtx-4090-prices-are-going-up
 
Marees said:
Interesting. Price creep for RTX 4090

An examination of current RTX 4090 pricing reveals that only the more costly GPUs are available. In addition, since they launched, the only card always at MSRP—Nvidia's Founders Edition—has almost disappeared. This GPU was a Best Buy exclusive, and we didn't even see it come up in a search for "RTX 4090." Once we narrowed the search to "Founders Edition," it appeared and was out of stock. According to Tom's Hardware's analysis, this is a new phenomenon for the card, indicating something is going on with the supply of these GPUs.

Sure, you can still buy an RTX 4090, but if you want one at MSRP, your only option right now appears to be the PNY version at Best Buy. Over on Amazon and Newegg, you won't find an MSRP card, which deviates from precedent. The least expensive cards are one from Galax for $1,654 on Amazon or a Gigabyte card on Newegg for $1,649. That means the smallest premium you'll pay is $50 over MSRP, but most available GPUs cost more than that, so you're looking at paying an additional $100 to $400 to own the world's most powerful GPU.

This situation seems to result from what we reported in August: that Nvidia was shifting production of its biggest chips to its AI accelerators, where margins are much higher. The same report said retailers were also finding the supply of RTX 4090s severely constrained, which aligns with what we're seeing now. Restricting the supply of the RTX 4090 is also a way to ensure prices remain high while helping the company divert precious TSMC resources to its AI chips. The true source of this price creep remains elusive. But it also seems certain that the lack of competition isn't helping.

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/nvidia-rtx-4090-prices-are-going-up
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4090 will be the most constrained into the holidays.
 
I saw last night they started disappearing. I will be buying another one today when i get off work
 
I agree I also think it will just be a small boost but who knows. I went and bought my second 4090 just a few mins ago. A

PNY NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 OC XLR8 Gaming VERTO EPIC-X RGB​


One for my render only computer I'm building. $1650+tax all the others were $1700+
 
Epyon said:
I agree I also think it will just be a small boost but who knows.
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Performance per die size should be a significant boost

Performance/$ should see a boost in $750 & below

Anything above that price, I guess you may need to wait until 2026 for significant performance/$
 
I’m wondering if they’re going to make these cards smaller. The 3090ti was thick. I got a water cooled 4090 with a separate radiator that made it a bit easier to install together with another, older graphics card. What’s next? A graphics card outside the computer with it’s own power supply?
 
You laugh but i see it going that way. They need to see the numbers now. Size does not matter. I might pick up a 3rd 4090 becausei see the 5090 being weak ass

All water blocks too because the cards are too fucking big
 
Bigc208 said:
I’m wondering if they’re going to make these cards smaller. The 3090ti was thick. I got a water cooled 4090 with a separate radiator that made it a bit easier to install together with another, older graphics card. What’s next? A graphics card outside the computer with it’s own power supply?
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Someone wasn't around for the voodoo 5 6000 :D!
 
MistaSparkul said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDfsRMJ2cno

Now, I am NOT saying that this guy is credible or that we should believe him. I just want to make a point that rumors will say just about anything ranging from the RTX 5090 being "twice as fast" as the 4090 to this guy saying it's only going to be 20% faster.
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For me, I don't care if the 5090 is twice as fast. I just want some good midrange cards that actually perform better than the previous generation at a normal price with decent VRAM amounts and bandwidth. If it's "only" 20% faster, then it's just the same thing as previous generations, nothing special. I want to see where they can go with the 5060, 5070, 5080 cards without some "wait for the Ti version or buy the previous generation next higher model at half the cost for the same performance or better".

Twice as fast? We've heard that promise from NVIDIA, AMD, ATI, 3dFX, Matrox for decades. How many times have they delivered? It's marketing and I've believed it a few times in the past. It's NOT going to be twice as fast. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter if that guy is credible or not, it's always promised but never delivered. Promise a great performance to $ ratio and go from there. "It's the best performing GPU at $500 MSRP than ever before, beating the previous $800 GPU's!". That's what'd sell me a card.
 
Ur_Mom said:
For me, I don't care if the 5090 is twice as fast. I just want some good midrange cards that actually perform better than the previous generation at a normal price with decent VRAM amounts and bandwidth. If it's "only" 20% faster, then it's just the same thing as previous generations, nothing special. I want to see where they can go with the 5060, 5070, 5080 cards without some "wait for the Ti version or buy the previous generation next higher model at half the cost for the same performance or better".

Twice as fast? We've heard that promise from NVIDIA, AMD, ATI, 3dFX, Matrox for decades. How many times have they delivered? It's marketing and I've believed it a few times in the past. It's NOT going to be twice as fast. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter if that guy is credible or not, it's always promised but never delivered. Promise a great performance to $ ratio and go from there. "It's the best performing GPU at $500 MSRP than ever before, beating the previous $800 GPU's!". That's what'd sell me a card.
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You won't be buying a card ever again. What you are asking for simply isn't possible for a publicly owned company because of constant inflation and shareholder pressure.
 
DooKey said:
You won't be buying a card ever again. What you are asking for simply isn't possible for a publicly owned company because of constant inflation and shareholder pressure.
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Both of you could be right.

Nvidia is sure to launch a 5070 for $500 which has same performance of 4070 ti (not the super versions)
Likely in 2025 H1/H2

If all goes to plan then AMD launches the 8700xt for $500-$550 in exactly 1 year. Again same perf as $800 4070 ti
 
Well as much as I complain about GPU prices, I'm in the 4k game now. I'm going to skip the 4090 for now and 5090 sounds like it might release around bonus time 2025, so there is that. I am going to shoot for that. If its stupid expensive like $2k or more, then I might get a secondhand 4090 then.
 
Ur_Mom said:
For me, I don't care if the 5090 is twice as fast. I just want some good midrange cards that actually perform better than the previous generation at a normal price with decent VRAM amounts and bandwidth. If it's "only" 20% faster, then it's just the same thing as previous generations, nothing special. I want to see where they can go with the 5060, 5070, 5080 cards without some "wait for the Ti version or buy the previous generation next higher model at half the cost for the same performance or better".

Twice as fast? We've heard that promise from NVIDIA, AMD, ATI, 3dFX, Matrox for decades. How many times have they delivered? It's marketing and I've believed it a few times in the past. It's NOT going to be twice as fast. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter if that guy is credible or not, it's always promised but never delivered. Promise a great performance to $ ratio and go from there. "It's the best performing GPU at $500 MSRP than ever before, beating the previous $800 GPU's!". That's what'd sell me a card.
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Fair enough. For me, I'm the opposite. I want the best of the best barring a few exceptions. Like if the uplift going from the best to the best (4090 to 5090) is only a 20% uplift then I wouldn't bother upgrading, or if it's out of my price range like $3k. 30% uplift is the minimum I require to justify an upgrade so if the 5090 cannot reach that target then I'll be skipping it. On the other hand, if it's another 60%+ uplift just like how the 3090 to the 4090 is, then I wouldn't mind paying up to $2k for it as that's my max price range.
 
Marees said:
Nvidia is sure to launch a 5070 for $500 which has same performance of 4070 ti (not the super versions)
Likely in 2025 H1/H2
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Maybe obviously quite possible but I would not go for sure too, they worked hard and took a hit too increase the starting price of the xx70 series

1070 FE: $450, a bit soft non FE were cheaper
2070 FE: $600, a bit soft non FE were cheaper
3070 FE: $500 (now felt cheap and had ultra long virtual and real line to buy at the price for a very long time), was mostly sold for significantly more than that
4070 FE: $600, hard
5070 FE: could be back to $500, sure, depending on the market, my guess they took the hit and will try to make it stick at $600 now, and would kind of feel cheap to the pundit if they have that 5x+60% perf increase that gen.

Because of technical decision, Nviida opened the door to make it extremely easy for the product line between the 4060 and 4090 to have a really impressive generational boost and memory speed stagnation, which was not a technical decision has well.

4070 is a 300mm, 12 GB with only 500 GBs (via 192 bits) of memory, if they want to keep the $600 dollar price tag and if they feel like the 5070 need a +5x% issh that can be spin in +60% gen on gen improvement (like the 4080 over the 3080 has, maybe a tiny bit more) to sell it, should be easy to do and the cooling-power delivery does not need to get more expensive.

They could still have really good margin with a 330mm-256 bit-16 gig of faster VRAM model / pci express 5 / DP 2.0 on N3.
 
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MLID Claim:

AMD targetting 7900xt/4080 performance for $600 or less with top RDNA 4 card (RX 8700 XT ??)

If Battlemage also competes with 4070 ti / 4080 level, then that could spice up the sub-$500 GPU market by this time next year.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Twice as fast? We've heard that promise from NVIDIA, AMD, ATI, 3dFX, Matrox for decades. How many times have they delivered? It's marketing and I've believed it a few times in the past. It's NOT going to be twice as fast. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter if that guy is credible or not, it's always promised but never delivered. Promise a great performance to $ ratio and go from there. "It's the best performing GPU at $500 MSRP than ever before, beating the previous $800 GPU's!". That's what'd sell me a card.
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The 4090 is twice as fast as a 3090 where ray tracing is concerned. The 1080 Ti was nearly twice as fast as the 980 Ti.
 
Marees said:
MLID Claim:

AMD targetting 7900xt/4080 performance for $600 or less with top RDNA 4 card (RX 8700 XT ??)

If Battlemage also competes with 4070 ti / 4080 level, then that could spice up the sub-$500 GPU market by this time next year.
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Doesn't seem great given that you could buy a 7900 XT for $699 lately. Unless of course they either vastly improve the RT performance or add in some other game changing new features exclusive to the 8000 series.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Doesn't seem great given that you could buy a 7900 XT for $699 lately. Unless of course they either vastly improve the RT performance or add in some other game changing new features exclusive to the 8000 series.
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RGT claims that AMD could rebadge /refresh the 7900 series as 8800 series (& priced accordingly)

That probably means that top RDNA 4 card will be badged as 8700 & cost $500 or less (performance might be just below $7900xt for stock clocked cards, I guess)
 
Yeah, buying my 4090 last December for $1749 (or thereabouts) wasn't such a bad deal. I have a GPU that hits 1.1V when I want to OC (limit is 1.07V BTW on newer die's) and ill be top of the line still till likely 2025, a record in terms of video cards i believe... not complaining, this thing tears up games at 4K.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Doesn't seem great given that you could buy a 7900 XT for $699 lately. Unless of course they either vastly improve the RT performance or add in some other game changing new features exclusive to the 8000 series.
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I thought about this, & imo, the judgment depends purely on when AMD releases the 8000 series

If it is july 2024 then well & good
Otoh, if it is june 2025 then another fail from AMD

Nothing fab/foundry wise stopping AMD now. Purely a question of if their optimization works of RDNA 3 are going on schedule

If all goes well

8800xt = 7950 xtx 24gb == $800
8800 = 7950 xt 20gb == $650

8700xt = 64 CU 16gb RDNA 4 == $500-$600
8700 = ~48 CU 16gb RDNA 4 == $400-$500

8600xt == ?? CU 12gb?? == $300-$350??
8600 == ?? CU 8gb?? == $250-$300??
8500xt??? = ??? CU 8gb == $200-$250

7600 8gb == $150-$200
6400xt 4gb == $100-$150
 
My guess on RDNA 4

7600 8gb= $200
8500xt 8gb = $250
7600xt 16gb = $280
8600 10gb = $300
8600xt 12gb = $350
7700xt 12gb = $350
7800xt 16gb = $450
8700 16gb = $480
8700xt 16gb = $600
7950?xt 20gb = $700 ?
7950?xtx 24gb = $850 ?
 
III_Slyflyer_III said:
Yeah, buying my 4090 last December for $1749 (or thereabouts) wasn't such a bad deal. I have a GPU that hits 1.1V when I want to OC (limit is 1.07V BTW on newer die's) and ill be top of the line still till likely 2025, a record in terms of video cards i believe... not complaining, this thing tears up games at 4K.
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Which would you prefer: your 4090 at $1750 or the ref 7900xtx I bought at $800?

Surely you don't feel your 4090 is worth more than 2x the cost
 
Rev. Night said:
Which would you prefer: your 4090 at $1750 or the ref 7900xtx I bought at $800?

Surely you don't feel your 4090 is worth more than 2x the cost
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I do. I've had two 7900 XTX cards. Could have bought that Merc for $800. Had another RTX 4090 on the way.
 
Please explain how a card that delivers 10-20% more performance is worth >100% the cost
 
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