Microsoft Surface Pro Sales Hit 400K In A Hurry

[Wrench00]

They aren't selling the Surface below the cost of production, quite different from the XBox.

When you factor in total investment of the Device/RD/Marketing.. OH yes they are.

 

[corrupted223]

Work has given me one of the new ipads with cellular, a Surface RT, and a Surface Pro. I dont use the iPad at all. The RT machine is perfect for the kindle app, RDP'ing to a server while down in the datacenter, and the Pro is used for everything else when I am on the go. Just dont see a need for the iPad but if we get a few of the needed apps for the RT I dont see why it wont take off. Only reason I use it instead of the Pro is weight sometimes. thats it.

 

[corrupted223]

The apps I was referring to for the RT were the VMWare apps off the top of my head.

 

[Azhar]

The lack of integrated broadband It is a pretty common complaint but one that to me isn't an issue as a I several tablets and laptops that I use so a MiFi ends up being more practical plus each time I buy a device I don't have a $100 added to the cost of the unit.

Another thing to carry but it also saves on battery on the device and it's easily shared among devices.

Yeah I also prefer my 4G LTE Mi-Fi over whatever offer my iPad Mini has. My Mi-Fi's 5GB bandwidth is much bigger and cheaper ($25/mo) than the iPad's 250MB ($15/mo) to 5GB ($50/mo) bandwidth.

 

[Azhar]

The Surface Pro is but one of a growing number of x86 hybrid devices on the market and many of these hybrids are of the folding keyboard dock nature like several OEMs already have out on the market. I think it made sense for Microsoft to come up with a more unique design.

I do see where you're coming from though as I like the folding keyboard dock design concept better then the Surface's stand. The negative of the folding dock design is that you end up with another piece that can be inconvenient when you're moving around and simply want a tablet.

Well the Surface Pro is only one of many Windows 8 tablet offering. Sounds like you need to look into the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 since you like the solid laptop feel with the off-chance you need a tablet. It's starting price is $100 over the Surface Pro - or equal if you count adding another $100 for the Surface Pro keyboard.

 

[mynamehere]

lol! i like this observation. i for one love the idea of the surface, and plan on buying one if they fix some issues with this one with the haswell refresh. if not, i will find a similar samsung or whatever alternative that does do those things.

Same here. Hoping Haswell will make battery life more of a moot point.

 

[MurphysLaww]

I bought a pro for my wife for school.

So far, so good. I couldn't get her to use One-note on the convertible tablet PC I gave her, but she fired it right up on the pro and is taking hand-written notes in her Cellular Biology class and is recording vids of class and pics in OneNote.

For the 20 million Post-secondary students out there, it would be silly to not have one of these.

For the millions of elementary and high school students, who thinks that the fact that the RT can only run MS store based apps isn't a plus for school admins ?

At the price point that MS can and will be able to come down to for bulk purchases, I imagine we are going to see millions of them in schools soon, be it k12 or post secondary.

Try to open that excel spreadsheet your prof just sent you on your school portal AND modify and save it on an iPad.

 

[heatlesssun]

So far, so good. I couldn't get her to use One-note on the convertible tablet PC I gave her, but she fired it right up on the pro and is taking hand-written notes in her Cellular Biology class and is recording vids of class and pics in OneNote.

For the 20 million Post-secondary students out there, it would be silly to not have one of these.

Congrats and couldn't agree more. OneNote is a fantastic tool for students. It's all about the thickness and weight. Convertibles are great, I've owned a bunched, but something thin and light is much nicer to use as a notepad.

 

[mknlb50]

A product based on a mediocre, outdated idea selling poorly? No surprise there.

 

[Ducman69]

I guess 400k isn't a bad number. Imagine how many Microsoft would have sold by now if they would have skipped the lame Surface RT and just sold the Pro from the start?

Amen, and IMO the RT did damage, because the average Joe just remembers the Microsoft Surface commercial and people's comments about it, and doesn't have a clue what makes the RT and Pro such very different devices.

 

[Ducman69]

It's all about the thickness and weight.

That is completely wrong!

The correct formula is Length times Diameter plus Weight over Girth divided by Angle of the tip squared. ((L*D)+(W/G))/(A^2) is what matters, not just thickness and weight!

Sorry if I seem defensive.

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

It's all about the thickness and weight.

Surely there are more considerations involved in the purchase of a device than how thick it is or how much it weighs. To only consider those factors may leave a lot of relevant information off the table in a purchase decision.

 

[heatlesssun]

Surely there are more considerations involved in the purchase of a device than how thick it is or how much it weighs. To only consider those factors may leave a lot of relevant information off the table in a purchase decision.

I was only referring to as why his wife liked inking on the Surface Pro over a convertible. Of course other factors apply but its simply much nice to ink on something thin and light in my experience, that's all.

 

[odditory]

At the price point that MS can and will be able to come down to for bulk purchases, I imagine we are going to see millions of them in schools soon, be it k12 or post secondary.

Millions of them in schools, huh.

 

[wonderfield]

Try to open that excel spreadsheet your prof just sent you on your school portal AND modify and save it on an iPad.

Completely doable.

 

[jstnomega]

That is completely wrong!

The correct formula is Length times Diameter plus Weight over Girth divided by Angle of the tip squared. ((L*D)+(W/G))/(A^2) is what matters, not just thickness and weight!

Sorry if I seem defensive.

let it go, Randy, just let it go

 

[Azhar]

Try to open that excel spreadsheet your prof just sent you on your school portal AND modify and save it on an iPad.

You've never used an iPad before, haven't you?

 

[heatlesssun]

You've never used an iPad before, haven't you?

There are a number of office automation apps for iOS and Android that can manipulate Office documents but none of the are full versions of Office. If you only need basic capabilities and aren't dealing with huge or complex documents then things should be fine.

 

[wonderfield]

Even if you need access to the full range of Office features, you can still do that on an iPad.

 

[Fort_Major]

I guess 400k isn't a bad number. Imagine how many Microsoft would have sold by now if they would have skipped the lame Surface RT and just sold the Pro from the start?

That number is actually quite horrible when you consider the iPad pre-sold over one million BEFORE launch and they didn't even know what the iPad did.

 

[Fort_Major]

Surely there are more considerations involved in the purchase of a device than how thick it is or how much it weighs. To only consider those factors may leave a lot of relevant information off the table in a purchase decision.

Actually for something as "useful" that you will hold most of the time you're using it, the iPad or the Surface or any other Tablet weight could be a very important deciding factor.

 

[Fort_Major]

How much is generally spent advertising a $1k PC? I doubt its anywhere near the tens or hundreds of millions Microsoft spent on creepy breakdancing office workers and schoolgirls playing round the clock everywhere

MS lost money if only 400k units assuming that's even accurate, I'm always leery of big round numbers. And in any case sales have flatlined since, visibility and buzz have dropped off a cliff

I liked the Office Icons that were people... I thought that was brilliant marketing.

It's just a shame there was a huge disconnect between Marketing and the WP team. Delivering an OS that was as Crippleware as iOS and far less forgiving since it was targeted at people who had non-crippleware (albeit vastly outdated) mobile OS.

Big part of me is thinking that despite this being "Windows" and "Microsoft" that the Windows 8 + Surface is going to share a semi-similar fate to WP.

 

[Fort_Major]

The problem is that most normal people don't know it can do more and don't even understand why it exists.

Most normal people do not even get the difference between an ARM and X86 CPU. And that in the end is a shortcoming MS needs to address.

It would have been far less of a shortcoming if they would have done the job right and made Windows RT an "actual" OS and not Windows Phone made bigger which is really what Windows RT is.

The major difference that makes iOS going from iPhone to iPad versus Windows Phone to Windows RT?

There were millions of apps and millions of iPhones. Microsoft keeps trying to copy Apple's success story but forget that they're not Apple and forget that they have to know why something succeeded for somebody else.

 

[heatlesssun]

Even if you need access to the full range of Office features, you can still do that on an iPad.

You can do things remotely, sure. But that can be done on any tablet with a remote client.

 

[heatlesssun]

It would have been far less of a shortcoming if they would have done the job right and made Windows RT an "actual" OS and not Windows Phone made bigger which is really what Windows RT is.

Nope, Windows RT is an implementation of COM, it is a true subset of Windows 8. In fact, Metro apps are nothing more than plain old desktop apps, believe it or not. There's a new add on from Startdock that shows the point quite nicely:

Yes I know that this is an add on but it's a 7MB install that looks to simply break the sand boxing and add a windowing frame to Metro apps, which apparently are just frameless desktop apps like any number of desktop apps.

I'll leave the debate about why Microsoft sand boxed Metro apps as much to others. I'm simply pointing out that Windows RT and Metro apps from a technical standpoint are nothing more than plain old Windows and COM apps.

 

[Fort_Major]

Nope, Windows RT is an implementation of COM, it is a true subset of Windows 8. In fact, Metro apps are nothing more than plain old desktop apps, believe it or not. There's a new add on from Startdock that shows the point quite nicely:

Yes I know that this is an add on but it's a 7MB install that looks to simply break the sand boxing and add a windowing frame to Metro apps, which apparently are just frameless desktop apps like any number of desktop apps.

I'll leave the debate about why Microsoft sand boxed Metro apps as much to others. I'm simply pointing out that Windows RT and Metro apps from a technical standpoint are nothing more than plain old Windows and COM apps.

Windows RT IS NOT Windows. A super super tiny sub-set does not make Windows RT Windows.

Windows RT and Windows Phone are the same kernel. In theory Windows RT and WP8 should be (very thick) blood brothers.

Windows RT and WP8 are related to Windows 8 - they are the culmination of 10+ years of Microsoft rehacking Windows and making a single codebase for the core/kernel capable of compiling on multiple hardware platforms. This is both good and bad.

Good because it made Windows a lot more modular. Bad because their goal is one code base for everything, and unfortunately a kernel for a server, a kernel for a desktop, a kernel for a gaming machine, a kernel for a tablet and a kernel for a phone are all very different entities.

But Windows RT is not Windows, and quite possibly - much to the chagrin of ARM and to the vast benefit of Intel - probably never will be.

 

[Fort_Major]

Because for some reason I cannot make edits.

In this context, Windows RT is referring to Windows on Arm Edition which is just that

 

[heatlesssun]

Windows RT IS NOT Windows. A super super tiny sub-set does not make Windows RT Windows.

Yes, Windows RT, or more specifically Windows on ARM is a true subset of Windows x86/x64 that runs on ARM architectures. Microsoft made this very point and demoed it over two years ago when they showed Windows 7 with just the desktop running on ARM along with an ARM version of Office 2010. There's nothing new or magical about it, people seem to forget that Windows has for a long time run on architectures besides x86/x64 such as Alpha, MIPS and Itanium.

The Windows RT API is a COM implementation and Windows RT apps are nothing more than COM programs like ActiveX controls and are nothing more than tricked out, heavily sandboxed desktop apps.

Windows RT and Windows Phone are the same kernel. In theory Windows RT and WP8 should be (very thick) blood brothers.

They are close but not exactly the same, WP8 is also COM based but unlike Windows RT or full Windows on ARM, it doesn't have the desktop for instance.

Good because it made Windows a lot more modular. Bad because their goal is one code base for everything, and unfortunately a kernel for a server, a kernel for a desktop, a kernel for a gaming machine, a kernel for a tablet and a kernel for a phone are all very different entities.

But Microsoft has pretty much achieved this and that's not at all part of Microsoft's major problems. People are complaining mostly the UI on the desktop in Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012, which is just flipping switches and has nothing to do with the kernel. On tablets the UI seems to be much better received. Generally people have been positive about the performance and back end features of the two. While Windows Phone 8 has small market share performance and stability don't seem to be issues facing the product, no more than any other phone OS.

 

[heatlesssun]

Because for some reason I cannot make edits.

You can't on the Front Page News forum.

 

[Fort_Major]

people seem to forget that Windows has for a long time run on architectures besides x86/x64 such as Alpha, MIPS and Itanium.

I remember, but the difference between then and now is the code-base was vastly different for each platform which is why Microsoft has consistently dropped support for most of the hardware platforms.

They are close but not exactly the same, WP8 is also COM based but unlike Windows RT or full Windows on ARM, it doesn't have the desktop for instance.

Uhh what? Windows on ARM is all RT period. There is no actual "Windows Desktop".
Windows RT cannot run Desktop applications.

Furthermore, Microsoft has been going to the same great pains that Apple has gone to to prevent users from rooting their hardware and ensuring that they CANNOT develop desktop applications on the ARM platform.

You may not have heard about this because unlike the iPhone and the iPad which pre-sold millions let alone what they have sold since, almost nobody bought the RT Surface and almost nobody is attempting to jalbreak it in attempt to salvage the almost worthless consumer device. But Microsoft is fully intent on ensuring that the people developing "desktop" software for this RT device cannot.

People are complaining mostly the UI on the desktop in Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012, which is just flipping switches and has nothing to do with the kernel. Generally people have been positive about the performance and back end features of the two. While Windows Phone 8 has small market share performance and stability don't seem to be issues facing the product, no more than any other phone OS.

Fact check. One of the hugest complaint from people opening up Windows RT tablets is that the massive confusion and the lies they were told by people who were not properly trained and were desparate to make a sale. So they said "It's Windows and it runs all of your Windows apps"

This same disconnect with the Windows 8 Live tiles is holding PC/Laptop sales up. Ask any sales person. Ask Best buy what the top reason for a returned Windows 8 laptop is.
Ask Lenovo what desktop OS businesses who actually pay attention to their business are still asking for.

On tablets the UI seems to be much better received.

Obviously this is very inaccurate because nobody is buying the tablet. It's reception would be considered all but horrible.
There is a tiny possibility that RIM might be giving Microsoft a run for it's money in the tablet business. I have not fact checked RIM's Playbook sales.

Having used Windows RT/Windows 8 on a tablet and having used an iPad I would honestly say that while in Windows 8 doing some things are slightly more intuitive, every single aspect of the Windows Metro is simply doing nothing but insulting my intelligence. I think it's pretty sad when I say that iOS 6.x looks a lot less Dumbed down than Windows RT.

Should also note, that it also doesn't say much when you are the big boy and you are losing all of your partners, which is what is happening to Microsoft and Windows RT.

 

[heatlesssun]

Uhh what? Windows on ARM is all RT period. There is no actual "Windows Desktop".

With that statement there really is no point in continuing as it's pretty obvious you don't understand the basic capabilities of Windows RT.

 

[Fort_Major]

With that statement there really is no point in continuing as it's pretty obvious you don't understand the basic capabilities of Windows RT.

Quite the contrary since regardless of what "Windows RT" may or may not be capable of doing, Microsoft is patching any attempts by any individual or company to "fully utilize" windows RT. Meaning developer are limited to the Windows RT Sandbox.

And I have it from the horses mouth via their VC Infusion/Jump Start program what every developer targeting Windows RT can do in Windows RT and what "can't" be done.

You seem to be far less/ill informed.

 

[odditory]

FortMajor he knew what you meant he's just playing semantics games and youre better off not wasting your time.

The closed locked down nature of RT where sideloading and jailbreaking are seen by MS as threats give us a glimpse of the trajectory they have in mind for Metro and x86 Windows, de-emphasizing the desktop a little more each version so ideally it would be completely locked down just like theyve demonstrated with Xbox, etc. Thats why if we don't object now then theyd have every excuse to say "well nobody complained so they like this" later on.

 

[ManofGod]

FortMajor he knew what you meant he's just playing semantics games and youre better off not wasting your time.

The closed locked down nature of RT where sideloading and jailbreaking are seen by MS as threats give us a glimpse of the trajectory they have in mind for Metro and x86 Windows, de-emphasizing the desktop a little more each version so ideally it would be completely locked down just like theyve demonstrated with Xbox, etc. Thats why if we don't object now then theyd have every excuse to say "well nobody complained so they like this" later on.

Are you a conspiracy theorist? No, the X86 version of windows is not nor will ever be completely locked down. The enterprise desktop is still and will always be critical to Microsoft's bottom line.

Your attempt at extrapolation is entirely misguided and off the wall. Please, quit with the obvious "opinions" and come up with something based in fact for once.

 

[Fort_Major]

Are you a conspiracy theorist? No, the X86 version of windows is not nor will ever be completely locked down. The enterprise desktop is still and will always be critical to Microsoft's bottom line.

Your attempt at extrapolation is entirely misguided and off the wall. Please, quit with the obvious "opinions" and come up with something based in fact for once.

Is it really that much conspiracy theory?

Tons of companies are now selling Tablets and laptops (and desktops) that are almost impossible to uninstall Windows 8 and install an operating system of your choice and systems are being bricked as a result. Some are bricked instantly if any attempt to install is made.

Microsoft's XBox 4 is rumored to be 100% cloud orientated/mandated and will not allow you to sell a game once you're done playing with it; which would effectively kill the game exchange market.

You might laugh and call conspiracy theorist now but there are seldom times where you can let people be the only players/be 100% in control and it doesn't spiral out of control.....

The companies with the bricking devices if you attempt to install another OS are not companies I would have ever expected to jump on this bandwagon.
I would have never guessed Samsung to jump on the Microsoft bandwagon and ship laptops that were not only tied to Windows but would brick

 

[Thuleman]

Is it really that much conspiracy theory?

Tons of companies are now selling Tablets and laptops (and desktops) that are almost impossible to uninstall Windows 8 and install an operating system of your choice and systems are being bricked as a result. Some are bricked instantly if any attempt to install is made.

That just follows an industry trend, no conspiracy there.

Microsoft's XBox 4 is rumored to be 100% cloud orientated/mandated and will not allow you to sell a game once you're done playing with it; which would effectively kill the game exchange market.

That too just just a good business decision and not surprising at all. Again, no conspiracy.

I think you may need to review the definition of conspiracy.

Meanwhile, I bought the Surface Pro at work for some co-workers to test out and have bought 6 more since then, odds are we will be buying another 20-30 of them. People love them. I personally don't find any use for tablets at all, but where I work people can actually use them in their daily work environment and are doing so.

 

[Fort_Major]

That just follows an industry trend, no conspiracy there.

Monopoly as an Industry Trend. I love it.

 

[Thuleman]

Monopoly as an Industry Trend. I love it.

What monopoly?
You wouldn't buy an iPhone to run Android on it, don't buy a Surface to run Linux. If you want to run Linux then buy a Linux tablet. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

 

[Fort_Major]

What monopoly?
You wouldn't buy an iPhone to run Android on it, don't buy a Surface to run Linux. If you want to run Linux then buy a Linux tablet. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

These are not just tablets that this is happening to. This also affects laptops where it is far more common to install multiple/differing operating systems (since you can't buy just any ole laptop you want without Windows)

 

[Thuleman]

These are not just tablets that this is happening to. This also affects laptops where it is far more common to install multiple/differing operating systems (since you can't buy just any ole laptop you want without Windows)

Which specific laptop, other than perhaps Apple's Mac Book line, is vendor locked?