GALAXY GTX 660 Ti GC OC vs. OC GTX 670 & HD 7950 @ [H]

Bahanime said:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7950_Flex/31.html

Even at stock volts, most 7950 are capable of 1050mhz core. With ~1.2 to 1.25vcore, you think 1.1ghz is the average? Kepler at 1.3ghz is exceptional, because there's not voltage tweaking, they tend to reach 1.2ghz "average".

So in essence, its putting a max clocked 660ti vs a slightly above average 7950.. and not put in through tests where its low ROPs and 196bit bus is exposed. Fair? Informative? At least make the comments so readers will understand the strengths and weaknesses of the product.
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Yes I think a 50% overclock is exceptional all things considered. I have read the 7950 OC thread here and would say 1100 is about an average OC to expect. By that I mean if you purchase a non-reference 7950 expect 1100 core to be achievable, if it goes higher then great. Just don't purchase expecting a card that will do 1250 core, that only leads to disappointment in my experience. It is the same with all graphics cards, don't expect an overclocking demon and you wont be disappointed.

In 15 years of overclocking my GPUs I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I got an exceptional overclocker.
 
I had a XFX double D that did 1130 core, but it ran hotter and louder than all hell. I have no idea how Brent managed 1195 out of thing without going deaf or melting to death.
 
Sodapopjones said:
I had a XFX double D that did 1130 core, but it ran hotter and louder than all hell. I have no idea how Brent managed 1195 out of thing without going deaf or melting to death.
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Luck of the draw. I bought a Gigabyte HD 7970 Windforce 3X after reading many reviews showing it to be an excellent overclocker. The one I got would only do 1050 on the core, even with voltage boost that thing would artifact if pushed higher than 1050. It was also louder than my reference 7970, I RMAd it and got a refund.

Obviously I got a dud but this (and your) experience demonstrates nicely how the law of probability applies to graphics cards :)
 
ICDP said:
In 15 years of overclocking my GPUs I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I got an exceptional overclocker.
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Yeah, I haven't been buying computer hardware for as long but I've owned a few video cards in my day. I've had one that I would say was an exceptional clocker. Still looking for that golden cpu. Never had one of those.
 
*rubbing hands in excitement* you guys and gals are gonna love what I have in store for this next article, i'm sitting here right now testing it, giddy with excitement, you don't know how hard it is to set the actual gpu clock speed in games to be exactly the same between Kepler GPUs, hard stuff, basically have to watch the clock speed in real-time the whole run-through and make sure it's the same clock speed throughout and make minute adjustments in tuner if not, and it has to be done per game, but that's what I do for you guys so you can see an awesome comparison in this next article :)
 
Brent_Justice said:
*rubbing hands in excitement* you guys and gals are gonna love what I have in store for this next article, i'm sitting here right now testing it, giddy with excitement, you don't know how hard it is to set the actual gpu clock speed in games to be exactly the same between Kepler GPUs, hard stuff, basically have to watch the clock speed in real-time the whole run-through and make sure it's the same clock speed throughout and make minute adjustments in tuner if not, and it has to be done per game, but that's what I do for you guys so you can see an awesome comparison in this next article :)
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This is awesome, I love the 7950, wish I would of waited a week longer before I picked up my 7850 for gaming to get the XFX for $300 deal. Looking forward to the next article to make me mad about my lack of patience!

just kidding, the 7850 is awesome still.
 
Let's just agree that amd clocked the core too low on all the 7000 series ... 200mhz to low across the whole line.

Nice to see the 7950 where it should be, even better with the recent price cut.
I'd take either of them *hint hint*
 
Good grief, I'm glad I bought a MSI TF 7950. It's topics like these that give good validation for my decision to pick up that card instead of a 7870.

I stress this because I usually somehow get screwed over on the decision making process, thankfully that didn't happen this time.
 
For the record, I had three MSI TF3 7950s. The first one OC'd to 1050MHz, second to 1100MHz, and the third one 1125MHz. If 1200MHz is average, I sure as hell didn't see it.
 
Well I don't have a particular major OC on my Twin Frozr III. Only a 950Mhz Core and 1425Mhz Memory. Since I'm primarily have mostly an entirely stock cooled setup, I cannot go too crazy since I don't want to increase voltage levels.

I just want to get slightly above HD7970 performance while retaining stability and low heat,
It was this article here that caused me to consider picking up a HD 7950 before anything else - http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/34761-amd-hd-7950-vs-hd-7970-clocks/
with that said I'll not continue derailing this topic with my OC concerns.
 
I would be interested in 660 3GB SLI vs 670 4GB SLI vs 7950 CFX. With resolution 2560x1600 as I have a 30" HP Monitor.
 
Excellent article. Love the correspondence to the feedback and information regarding the upcoming article.
 
Fantastic review. Finally puts the 7950 in its place having the performance crown at the ~300 price point. These are mad overclockers. 660 Ti is an irrelevant card imo.
 
BababooeyHTJ said:
Sleeping Dogs runs FXAA by default and there is no way to turn it off.
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That is kinda cool....and sucks though. I dunno I just like options of turning things off. But I guess FXAA isnt really that much of a performance hit anyway.
 
raghu78 said:
Cards like Sapphire HD 7950 Vapor-X, Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz edition, MSI Twin Frozr HD 7950 are all using HD 7970 PCB designs. with voltage overclocking 1150 Mhz seems to be achievable quite consistently. still not guaranteed. But thats the case with any other card.
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My Sapphire HD 7950 950mhz runs stable for gaming at 1300/1600. 1150mhz on these cards seem very likely from what I have seen so far.
 
SonDa5 said:
My Sapphire HD 7950 950mhz runs stable for gaming at 1300/1600. 1150mhz on these cards seem very likely from what I have seen so far.
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Yeah 1300 Mhz is the best you can get on the HD 7900 cards provided you have the cooling to go for it. Since you are watercooling its easy to hit 1300 Mhz. It can be summarised as follows. With voltage overclocking

1.05 Ghz or lower - below average
1.1 - 1.15 - average
1.2 - 1.25 - above average
1.3 Ghz - best HD 7950 clocks possible.
 
KickAssCop said:
Fantastic review. Finally puts the 7950 in its place having the performance crown at the ~300 price point. These are mad overclockers. 660 Ti is an irrelevant card imo.
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It's hardly irrelevant - at the very least it is responsible for the 7950 price drops.
 
ICDP said:
Luck of the draw. I bought a Gigabyte HD 7970 Windforce 3X after reading many reviews showing it to be an excellent overclocker. The one I got would only do 1050 on the core, even with voltage boost that thing would artifact if pushed higher than 1050. It was also louder than my reference 7970, I RMAd it and got a refund.

Obviously I got a dud but this (and your) experience demonstrates nicely how the law of probability applies to graphics cards :)
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Definitely, it really is luck of the draw, and OC'ing shouldn't really be considered a given, unless you like to RMA lol.
 
Absolutely LOVE this comparison test! I like how you stated 'best of the best' type comparison which will give us a much better handle on how these cards are going to stack up for [H] readers, who tend to push our rigs harder than most. I dont think any ATI or nVidia fanbois can fault your testing methods on this review. Well done.
 
Really nice review, and really looking forward to the next one on crazy AA levels :)

Also, props to galaxy for pushing their products in a smart, helpful way!
 
ahhhhh, pretty good [H]ard review! My only complaint is the fiddling with different AA options to reduce the vram use.

My only suggestion would be to add a 3x 1920x1080 monitor resolution to the review for budget conscious multi-monitor gaming, which could be a good target resolution for the buyers of these cards.
 
Wow this makes the 660 look kind of trashy, at least for the price, im sure the Batman thing was a weird driver issue or something.
 
Great review, interesting results. I wonder if there is any drop in default driver IQ from AMD to get extra performance in the latest Catalyst. They have been notorious for doing that when things get too competitive in the last few generations. Hell when I had and enjoyed my 6950s modded beyond overclocked 7970s for my setup I manually boosted default IQ because anything below High seemed subpar to me.

If there is no drop in default IQ games going on then kudos to AMD for getting their drivers together for their single card solutions. I haven't heard much lately but their multicard drivers were not stellar last I looked, if they can fix that then they have compelling products and pricing in their favor.
 
This is just false. There are many many overclocking threads on hardware forums, both for the 7850 and 7950 and their actual average with vcore mod is ~1.2ghz, their typical max is at around 1.3ghz, very similar to kepler which seem to max around 1.3ghz boost as well.

In fact, almost every single review with these cards even at stock voltage could hit the CCC max 1050mhz.

So in essence, [H] just put a max 660ti & 670 vs a below average 7950 OC, and the radeon still won.

Not to mention 4x MSAA only at 1080p (why not also bench 8x MSAA?), and no MSAA at 1600p... why?

Heck, there's even a big thread in this forum: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1679776
1.15ghz and 1.2ghz are the norm for 7950
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Exactly what I was going to say.
 
Lord_Exodia said:
Great review, interesting results. I wonder if there is any drop in default driver IQ from AMD to get extra performance in the latest Catalyst. They have been notorious for doing that when things get too competitive in the last few generations. Hell when I had and enjoyed my 6950s modded beyond overclocked 7970s for my setup I manually boosted default IQ because anything below High seemed subpar to me.

If there is no drop in default IQ games going on then kudos to AMD for getting their drivers together for their single card solutions. I haven't heard much lately but their multicard drivers were not stellar last I looked, if they can fix that then they have compelling products and pricing in their favor.
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What makes you think that hardocp would leave the driver iq at default?
 
Is BF3 multi or single player in test?

Nothing about, noise, power etc. That is more important thing than raw performance in this test, since all are in same area. Getting 1300 from Keplers is basicly mild OC, they cant go much higher i know but there is no need for tons off extra voltages and 100% fans.

Why never ambient occlusion in Skyrim? It is nice feature and it would be nice to know if 660zi is powerfull enough..
 
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roki977 said:
Is BF3 multi or single player in test?

Nothing about, noise, power etc. That is more important thing than raw performance in this test, since all are in same area. Getting 1300 from Keplers is basicly mild OC, they cant go much higher i know but there is no need for tons off extra voltages and 100% fans.

Why never ambient occlusion in Skyrim? It is nice feature and it would be nice to know if 660zi is powerfull enough..
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BF3 is Single

About AO in Skyrim, you will see this used in the next article, and yes it's playable with AO enabled at 1920x01080 8X MSAA + FXAA on 660 Ti

AO is all about shader performance, and 660 Ti has the same as 670 since it is the same GPU
 
roki977 said:
Is BF3 multi or single player in test?

Nothing about, noise, power etc. That is more important thing than raw performance in this test, since all are in same area. Getting 1300 from Keplers is basicly mild OC, they cant go much higher i know but there is no need for tons off extra voltages and 100% fans.

Why never ambient occlusion in Skyrim? It is nice feature and it would be nice to know if 660zi is powerfull enough..
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1300 is mild?! Haha ok man...
 
Batman tested at 2560x1600 32X CSAA, check, Skyrim at 8X MSAA + 8X TR SSAA + FXAA, check, also with Ambient Occlusion enabled, check.....
 
Brent_Justice said:
Batman tested at 2560x1600 32X CSAA, check, Skyrim at 8X MSAA + 8X TR SSAA + FXAA, check, also with Ambient Occlusion enabled, check.....
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I want to say I really appreciate you going this far in showing how much you can stress these cards. I for one want to play at the max most IQ possibly. I always try to run with Supersampling on....Thanks Brent for all your time.
 
Brent_Justice said:
Batman tested at 2560x1600 32X CSAA, check, Skyrim at 8X MSAA + 8X TR SSAA + FXAA, check, also with Ambient Occlusion enabled, check.....
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thanks for all the hours into testing at such a large variety of settings. [H] is the only website which would do such a comprehensive testing across a range of image quality settings.
 
You are welcome guys

Batman -
2560x1600 32X CSAA
2560x1600 8X MSAA
2560x1600 4X MSAA
1920x1080 8X MSAA
1920x1080 4X MSAA

BF3 -
2560x1600 4X MSAA + FXAA
2560x1600 2X MSAA + FXAA
1920x1080 4X MSAA + FXAA

MP3 -
2560x1600 4X MSAA + FXAA
2560x1600 2X MSAA + FXAA
1920x1080 8X MSAA + FXAA
1920x1080 4X MSAA + FXAA

Skyrim -
2560x1600 8X MSAA + FXAA + Ambient Occlusion
2560x1600 8X MSAA + 8X TR SSAA + FXAA
2560x1600 8X MSAA + 4X TR SSAA + FXAA
2560x1600 8X MSAA + 2X TR SSAA + FXAA
1920x1080 8X MSAA + FXAA + Ambient Occlusion
1920x1080 8X MSAA + 8X TR SSAA + FXAA
1920x1080 8X MSAA + 4X TR SSAA + FXAA

Actual Clock for Actual Clock 660 Ti vs. GTX 670 + Some out of box tests vs. 7950 with new BIOS clocks

That's what's tested
 
Those look like settings that would stress a 680 pretty good - were any of them really playable on a 660 Ti? BF3 at 2560x1600 with 4x MSAA?
 
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