Company Seizes 3-D Printer From Desktop Gunsmith

So I'm going to make a list here.

Adolf Hitler, Barrack Obama, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Mitt Romney[/QUOTE]

Funny, everyone on that list is a socialist or communist except one person. Mitt Romney surely isn't a Ron Paul but he sure as hell isn't an Obama either.
 
DrDoug said:
Anyone who thinks that they will get the kind of government they want by overthrowing the government needs to get their head examined. It won't happen, Utopia doesn't exist and it never will. While the grass always looks greener on the other side, getting to that other side via overthrowing the government will be very costly to everyone. All you will end up doing is replacing one set of crooks with another. Power corrupts...

Remember, the people who are 'destroying' the government were elected by the people. If you don't like what the government is doing then vote for someone else. If that doesn't work then the 'answer' to getting your way isn't violence if your 'side' doesn't have the power (through representation) to get what they want. There are fifty states and two powerful political parties out there who are jostling for what they can get from the federal government via control of it.

Don't take it personally if you don't get what you want, you're only one person in a nation of millions.
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Voting in and of itself is an act of violence when you vote to commit aggression against someone. By voting for someone, for example, who vows to declare war or use force, you are directly sanctioning that activity.

Democracy is flawed because :

A.Most humans are idiots (One only has to look at gay marriage ballots to see this)
B.It leads to the tyranny of the majority
C.The fact that the majority of people believe something doesn't make it morally right or just.

Remember that democracy lead to segregation in the US. Democracy led to slavery in the US. Democracy led to laws criminalizing homosexuality. Democracy led to laws establishing a Christian theocracy in the US.

What makes you think that, if, hypothetically the government were overthrown, that it would need to be replaced by yet another government? There is nothing that government does (except commit crimes on a mass scale) that cannot be done better by people working together in voluntary and mutual cooperation.

Seventyfive said:
So I'm going to make a list here.

Adolf Hitler, Barrack Obama, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Mitt Romney
Click to expand...

Funny, everyone on that list is a socialist or communist except one person. Mitt Romney surely isn't a Ron Paul but he sure as hell isn't an Obama either.[/QUOTE]

No, he just wants to invade the entire Middle East and commit untold acts of violence.
 
Seventyfive said:
So I'm going to make a list here.

Adolf Hitler, Barrack Obama, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Mitt Romney
Click to expand...

Funny, everyone on that list is a socialist or communist except one person. Mitt Romney surely isn't a Ron Paul but he sure as hell isn't an Obama either.[/QUOTE]

Not only are you calling Obama a socialist, which is completely absurd, but you're calling Hitler a socialist?

Once again...love these kinds of posts, lets me know which people could never possibly have anything interesting to say.
 
damicatz said:
Voting in and of itself is an act of violence when you vote to commit aggression against someone. By voting for someone, for example, who vows to declare war or use force, you are directly sanctioning that activity.
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Nobody is platforming on a guarantee of violence. There are implicit threats but not explicit. And, I hate to break it to you, but sometimes violence is warranted.

damicatz said:
Democracy is flawed because :

A.Most humans are idiots (One only has to look at gay marriage ballots to see this)
B.It leads to the tyranny of the majority
C.The fact that the majority of people believe something doesn't make it morally right or just.
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I agree with point A. Most people are idiots and will therefore vote for idiots. The average american spends too much and runs up his personal debt. We now have politicians that spend too much and run up the federal debt. No surprise.

Point B is wrong. It leads to tyranny BY the minority. Just look at the idiots running around with 99% signs and all the ballots that say "tax the millionaires because you're not one".

You're right about C and it goes to my comment on point B. Unfortunately if you're in this situation, all you can do is leave. I thank God everyday that I have dual citizenship so I can leave when this country starts imploding.

damicatz said:
Remember that democracy lead to segregation in the US. Democracy led to slavery in the US. Democracy led to laws criminalizing homosexuality. Democracy led to laws establishing a Christian theocracy in the US.

What makes you think that, if, hypothetically the government were overthrown, that it would need to be replaced by yet another government? There is nothing that government does (except commit crimes on a mass scale) that cannot be done better by people working together in voluntary and mutual cooperation.
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We had segregation and slavery BEFORE this country was even founded. Our founding fathers were Christians so you're wrong again. Finally, it's important to remember we're not a democracy but a constitutional republic.

Ironically, for everything that I disagree with you on, I 100% agree with your last sentence.


damicatz said:
No, he just wants to invade the entire Middle East and commit untold acts of violence.
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I forgot about him saying that. I'll check msnbc for his quote where he says "I want to commit untold acts of violence". In the meantime, we'll just let Iran get a nuclear weapon which I'm sure they will use for peace and love and definitely not for "untold acts of violence". Maybe they will build a nuclear reactor that powers a giant guitar that plays kumbayah and they'll send this gift to Israel.
 
shrewoc said:
Good thing the US is not a Democracy, ie mob rule, and is a Constitutional Republic.
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Bingo and +5.

The United States is a constitutional republic, indeed. The republic abides by the constitution or charter and that is its focal point. The first ten amendments all have to do with protecting / respecting the rights of the Individual. Basically, it has to do with property and personal rights. Lots of John Locke and others in there.

Democracy is by the people for the people, serving "the greater good". Democracies can strip you of personal and/or property rights for this purpose. Bentham's paradise, for sure.

Unfortunately, it seems as though we have a constitution it is not acknowledged nearly as it should and rather the United States acts in Democratic fashion.

</now you know>

All these guys have to do is get a different printer, no biggie. They could upscale some of them as they've been designed with that purpose in mind for a bigger x,y, z plane for printing...
 
Aluisious said:
Not only are you calling Obama a socialist, which is completely absurd, but you're calling Hitler a socialist?

Once again...love these kinds of posts, lets me know which people could never possibly have anything interesting to say.
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Clearly you haven't read a history book in your life.

"National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus; common short form Nazi, from Nationalsozialismus[1] ) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany."
 
Hitler was a fascist, full stop. He redefined national socialism, much like North Korea has redefined democratic republic.
 
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More on topic....

Using a 3D printer for this purpose is not going to end well for either firearms makers or 3D printer manufacturers. Stratasys knows this, which is why they pulled the printer from the guy. Once someone makes a functioning firearm - even a single-use, disposable plastic job - with a 3D printer, the usual politicians will be calling for bans on the printers as "tools of criminals and terrorists" and push yet again for stricter gun laws in the process as they always do.

The sad thing is, in this case they'd be right about the printer. Once someone has a proof of concept and starts distributing plans they'll end up being made and sold on the black market. The people who will be punished for it will be the law-abiding citizens that have legitimate use for a 3D printer, and since there would be no way to stop the manufacture of these weapons they'd start banning ammunition - again hurting law-abiding citizens and stripping them of their rights.

This was a bad idea, and Stratafor did the right thing. Leave manufacturing weapons to the pros, and let them be made and sold in the open.
 
Seventyfive said:
Clearly you haven't read a history book in your life.

"National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus; common short form Nazi, from Nationalsozialismus[1] ) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany."
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It's not quite (at all) the socialism we are used to. It's better to call it autocratic fascism, which would be much more accurate. The whole idea behind the 3rd Reich was to reinstate the power of the Holy Roman Empire over all of Europe, not to create a socialist utopia. This is at odds with what we consider social democracy. Himmler and Hitler detested communism and liberalism.
 
DrDoug said:
Anyone who thinks that they will get the kind of government they want by overthrowing the government needs to get their head examined. It won't happen
Click to expand...

You do realized the only reason our country exists is because the colonists overthrew the government right?
 
While I normally hate the way corporations think they can go thugging around anytime they want & enjoy jackbooted stomping on the necks of the average citizen, in this case they kind of did everyone a favour & I'm pretty sure most people (except those attention seekers who were doing the project) are glad it is all done with for now.
 
Wait, we all saw this coming, a guy wanted to make his own legal items, on legal machinery, and then was abducted and questioned, without being charged, by a regulatory agency, who lied about his legality?

Yeah, I guess when dealing with the BATFE, you see that coming.
 
I own a Stratsys FDM machine. They will have a firefight on their hands if they ever think they can come and take mine or not sell me the build/support material.
 
BodyBagz said:
Theres not a single piece of a "civie M16", or any other variation of the AR platform, that can be converted to full auto fire with just 3D Printed components. The Lower Assembly to include the Fire Control Group, as well as the Bolt Carrier Group in the Upper Receiver both need modifications, and these are all parts that are made out of metals...no plastic parts...


The manufacturing of a gun, rifle or pistol, for personal use, is not prohibited by the ATF. You can manufacture as many as you like for yourself, but you are not allowed to give away, or sell to any other person...to do so would constitute an "enterprise" of sorts, which is controlled by the ATF.

"From ATF`s Website"
"For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution."
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You do not know what you are talking about. A drop in auto-sear or a replacement FCG or lower is all you need. There are no changes that need to be made to the upper. Now there is a difference between an M-16 bolt carrier and one in an AR-15, but that difference equates to longevity of the part, not functionality. The M-16 bolt-carrier is a stronger design but the two are compatible. And many civilian legal AR-15's come with M-16 bolt carriers anyway. The Colt LE6920 is one such example.
 
Dan_D said:
You do not know what you are talking about. A drop in auto-sear or a replacement FCG or lower is all you need. There are no changes that need to be made to the upper. Now there is a difference between an M-16 bolt carrier and one in an AR-15, but that difference equates to longevity of the part, not functionality. The M-16 bolt-carrier is a stronger design but the two are compatible. And many civilian legal AR-15's come with M-16 bolt carriers anyway. The Colt LE6920 is one such example.
Click to expand...

None of those parts are plastic like a 3D printer makes.
 
darkstarcow said:
You do realized the only reason our country exists is because the colonists overthrew the government right?
Click to expand...

Yes I do, duh. Look at the composition of our government from 1776 to 1789, is it the same as it is today? No? That's because it failed and we went in another direction that ultimately led to the dissenters seceding and starting a civil war.

I rest my case. :D
 
Dan_D said:
You do not know what you are talking about. A drop in auto-sear or a replacement FCG or lower is all you need. There are no changes that need to be made to the upper. Now there is a difference between an M-16 bolt carrier and one in an AR-15, but that difference equates to longevity of the part, not functionality. The M-16 bolt-carrier is a stronger design but the two are compatible. And many civilian legal AR-15's come with M-16 bolt carriers anyway. The Colt LE6920 is one such example.
Click to expand...

From what I recall, basically any AR15 lower receiver made in the past twenty or so years will not accept a DIAS as the lower has the "block" that goes across the receiver preventing the DIAS from being inserted.
 
Aluisious said:
Funny, everyone on that list is a socialist or communist except one person. Mitt Romney surely isn't a Ron Paul but he sure as hell isn't an Obama either.
Click to expand...

Not only are you calling Obama a socialist, which is completely absurd, but you're calling Hitler a socialist?

Once again...love these kinds of posts, lets me know which people could never possibly have anything interesting to say.[/QUOTE]

Hilter a socialist? The leader of the National-Socialist German Workers Party, a socialist? What a silly concept.
:rolleyes:

The Nazi's were raging socialists. Their distintion from the Communists was primarily they were Nationalists (and supremecists) while the Communists were international socialists. It was a propaganda attach by Stalin on the Nazis that labelled the Nazi's Right Wing. Which was later and more successfully reversed into one of the biggest propaganda coups in North America and Much of the Western World by Liberals by trying to the stick the Right as being the ones associated with Nazis.
 
Not correct. Fascism is corporatism to the extreme. It's neither right nor left wing.
 
I wonder if the aliens are watching this thread. One of them will probably be like, "Hey, Zbbbbzzta! Get over here and read the nerds' political debate!" And the other one will be all like reading and then say, "Oh my gawd! For really? It's a good thing that we Sri Lankans aren't this stupid."
 
Seventyfive said:
Clearly you haven't read a history book in your life.

"National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus; common short form Nazi, from Nationalsozialismus[1] ) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany."
Click to expand...

Calling you simple would be an insult to the stuff I clean tiles with.
 
SkribbelKat said:
I wonder if the aliens are watching this thread. One of them will probably be like, "Hey, Zbbbbzzta! Get over here and read the nerds' political debate!" And the other one will be all like reading and then say, "Oh my gawd! For really? It's a good thing that we Sri Lankans aren't this stupid."
Click to expand...

Debating WWI-II era politics in a thread about 3D printing on a tech forums is pure comedy. Aliens love comedy.
 
Dan_D said:
You do not know what you are talking about. A drop in auto-sear or a replacement FCG or lower is all you need. There are no changes that need to be made to the upper. Now there is a difference between an M-16 bolt carrier and one in an AR-15, but that difference equates to longevity of the part, not functionality. The M-16 bolt-carrier is a stronger design but the two are compatible. And many civilian legal AR-15's come with M-16 bolt carriers anyway. The Colt LE6920 is one such example.
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1) While the Upper does not require any "special" parts or machining, the Bolt Carrier Group does not need to be a "normal" BCG if intended for Full Auto firing, as it will fail quicker over time. That specifically is why "full auto" BCG`s cost more and are more preferred even in the sport shooting segment...they last longer.

2) Without a Class 2 or higher FFL, you as a person nor myself, are not allowed to modify any semi-auto rifle for Full Auto fire, to do so would risk imprisonment for no less than 5 years and upwards of 15 per the BATF.

3) Find me, right now or at your leisure, any manufacturer, domestic or foreign, that sells a Full Auto ready Lower Assembly, either stripped or complete...to anyone other than Law Enforcement or Military entities...legally just for shits and giggles...

4) If you are still bored, find me a completely plastic Fire Control Group...gonna take some nifty and tough plastic to make those pesky fucking springs and small pins...just saying...(see attached pic below)

5) I concede your superior knowledge and totally dismiss my 18 years of unblemished Military Service...:rolleyes:

AR_-_15_Trigger_Group.jpg
 
BodyBagz said:
1)

3) Find me, right now or at your leisure, any manufacturer, domestic or foreign, that sells a Full Auto ready Lower Assembly, either stripped or complete...to anyone other than Law Enforcement or Military entities...legally just for shits and giggles...
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Other than colt, who makes lowers that have mods that prevent full auto trigger groups from being installed, "mil-spec" lowers are sold by, well, everyone. they don't have a marking for "Full" stamped on the outside, but if you have the proper trigger group, it will work just fine as a full auto.
 
motomonkey said:
Other than colt, who makes lowers that have mods that prevent full auto trigger groups from being installed, "mil-spec" lowers are sold by, well, everyone. they don't have a marking for "Full" stamped on the outside, but if you have the proper trigger group, it will work just fine as a full auto.
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Every AR-15 lower receiver I have seen in my life have has had the arch going across the lower receiver to prevent this type of modification. I have owned a Bushmaster XM-15E2S, and currently own a RRA in a varmint configuration which I put together myself and a Colt LE6920.
 
motomonkey said:
Other than colt, who makes lowers that have mods that prevent full auto trigger groups from being installed, "mil-spec" lowers are sold by, well, everyone. they don't have a marking for "Full" stamped on the outside, but if you have the proper trigger group, it will work just fine as a full auto.
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No, it wont. As has been stated previously, there is a section in AR Lowers sold to the public specifically left un-milled to prevent the conversion to Full Auto Fire as it is against Federal Law to sell such lowers.

Find me a Colt, Armalite, Smith & Wesson M&P, DPMS, Daniel Defense, Rock River Arms, Palmetto State Armory, Surplus Arms, Bushmaster, etc etc etc, lower, stripped or complete, that is factory shipped to civilians ready for Full Auto...I`ll gladly wait...

I personally just sold a Surplus Arms Mil Spec 5.56/.223 stripped lower...with un-milled section in place...as are all commensurable available items of the same variety.

Unless you are a Law Enforcement Agency or Military Vendor, you personally can not buy a Factory Full Auto Lower Assembly, either stripped or complete, without having a Class 2 or higher FFL, and then there will be a substantial Tax Stamp of several thousand $$$...

Dont believe everything you see on "Sons of Guns"...Red Jacket is not a source of "truth in gun/weapon making".....
 
For the reading impaired...animated gif`s....yay!

AR15 Lower and Trigger Assembly....notice there is aome missing parts, noticeably the auto-sear and the corresponding pin holes for its mounting...
trigger-animation.gif



M16 Lower and Trigger Group...the auto sear is viewable along with the pin hole for through mounting above the Safety/Fire Selector Lever
m16animation1ww1.gif


Stripper AR15 Lowers...No tell-tale hole above the safety opening...

Bushmaster
stripped_ar15_lower_receiver.jpg


Smith&Wesson
AR15_Lower1.jpg


Armalite
2e5sent.jpg
 
BodyBagz said:
No, it wont. As has been stated previously, there is a section in AR Lowers sold to the public specifically left un-milled to prevent the conversion to Full Auto Fire as it is against Federal Law to sell such lowers.

Find me a Colt, Armalite, Smith & Wesson M&P, DPMS, Daniel Defense, Rock River Arms, Palmetto State Armory, Surplus Arms, Bushmaster, etc etc etc, lower, stripped or complete, that is factory shipped to civilians ready for Full Auto...I`ll gladly wait...

I personally just sold a Surplus Arms Mil Spec 5.56/.223 stripped lower...with un-milled section in place...as are all commensurable available items of the same variety.

Unless you are a Law Enforcement Agency or Military Vendor, you personally can not buy a Factory Full Auto Lower Assembly, either stripped or complete, without having a Class 2 or higher FFL, and then there will be a substantial Tax Stamp of several thousand $$$...

Dont believe everything you see on "Sons of Guns"...Red Jacket is not a source of "truth in gun/weapon making".....
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. and No, I don't watch sons of guns, bunch of Publicity hungry idiots.

I've built AR's and used full auto verions, just never built a Full auto one.
 
Stiletto said:
They are hard to get legally, not illegally. They're hard to get legally because that's where the focus of the tens of thousands of gun control laws hits.
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Depends on where you live. Assuming this is the United States you're talking about, if you live in a large city like Chicago, New York, or Washington D.C. or the People's Republik of Kalifornia, they are hard to get. If you live in parts of the country where you're not a complete subject of the government, usually all you have to do is fill out a piece of paper, wait for the dealer to phone in a background check and, assuming you passed it and aren't a felon, illegal alien, or a victim of the occasional identity mix-up, pay the man and walk out the door. That applies to a .22lr target pistol all the way up to a .50 BMG Barret M82-A1. What you cannot easily get is a fully-automatic weapon, noise suppressor (silencer), short-barreled rifle (not to be confused with a rifle-caliber pistol - there's a legal and technical difference), explosives, or any weapon in a caliber greater than .50BMG (20mm for example). This is primarily because the government and most of the citizenry does not think it's a good idea to let just about anyone run around with machineguns, hand grenades, rocket launchers, or anti-tank cannons. In some places you can legally own said items, but you have to go through a rather lengthy and tedious permit process and usually such items tend to be insanely expensive. The least expensive legal 9mm SMG I know of runs $7,000+. Most Class III weapons cost in the 5 digits and up.
 
Phoenix333 said:
In some places you can legally own said items, but you have to go through a rather lengthy and tedious permit process and usually such items tend to be insanely expensive. The least expensive legal 9mm SMG I know of runs $7,000+. Most Class III weapons cost in the 5 digits and up.
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Silencers are pretty cheap, although the tax stamp kinda sucks.
I thought I read that in the locations where you can own a caliber greater than .50, you have to get a tax stamp for each round of ammunition... crazy.
The local full-auto range near my house has several modified semi-auto firearms instead of the real deal. As they're a FFL licensed dealer, I guess that's a cheaper option to go through than civilian-legal full-auto's.

Thankfully I tried full-auto and didn't quite understand it honestly... saves me from the ridiculously priced weapons and insane amounts of ammo you can blow through. A 3 round burst on the other hand, I can understand...
 
Phoenix333 said:
Depends on where you live. Assuming this is the United States you're talking about, if you live in a large city like Chicago, New York, or Washington D.C. or the People's Republik of Kalifornia, they are hard to get. If you live in parts of the country where you're not a complete subject of the government, usually all you have to do is fill out a piece of paper, wait for the dealer to phone in a background check and, assuming you passed it and aren't a felon, illegal alien, or a victim of the occasional identity mix-up, pay the man and walk out the door. That applies to a .22lr target pistol all the way up to a .50 BMG Barret M82-A1. What you cannot easily get is a fully-automatic weapon, noise suppressor (silencer), short-barreled rifle (not to be confused with a rifle-caliber pistol - there's a legal and technical difference), explosives, or any weapon in a caliber greater than .50BMG (20mm for example). This is primarily because the government and most of the citizenry does not think it's a good idea to let just about anyone run around with machineguns, hand grenades, rocket launchers, or anti-tank cannons. In some places you can legally own said items, but you have to go through a rather lengthy and tedious permit process and usually such items tend to be insanely expensive. The least expensive legal 9mm SMG I know of runs $7,000+. Most Class III weapons cost in the 5 digits and up.
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Exactly. Or, if you're a criminal, you can get someone to straw purchase a weapon for you, you can buy one on the black market, or you can just steal one. Or, if you're really lucky, the US government will just give you guns because what can go wrong(aside from a couple murdered Border Patrol agents and hundreds of dead innocent Mexican citizens)?
 
Stiletto said:
Exactly. Or, if you're a criminal, you can get someone to straw purchase a weapon for you, you can buy one on the black market, or you can just steal one. Or, if you're really lucky, the US government will just give you guns because what can go wrong(aside from a couple murdered Border Patrol agents and hundreds of dead innocent Mexican citizens)?
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The Fast and Furious debacle has pretty much everyone except the Justice Department enraged. Both the NRA and proponents of gun control have reason to be mad over that. The FFL dealers were calling in suspected straw purchases and the ATF was telling them to let the guys walk with the guns. The people in the business knew there was problem and did what they're supposed to. The Federal law enforcement people didn't uphold the law, then the DOJ tried to cover it up. Everyone directly connected to the Fast and Furious operation should be put on trial for the murders of those hundreds of Mexican citizens and at least one US Border Patrol Agent. They should also be tried for criminal conspiracy, betrayal of any oaths of office, and obstruction of justice. Personally I'd like to see Eric Holder extradited to Mexico for stonewalling the Congressional investigation, and Obama needs to answer for the executive privilege card as well. I don't care if the people in office have an R or D next to their name - someone needs to be able to hold these people accountable. No one is above the law, and political cronyism should not be tolerated. I can only hope that if Romney is elected that he's of much better moral fiber than Obama. I'm not getting my hopes up too high though as I don't trust politicians of any party.
 
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