Build Issues

Has anyone mentioned the memory controller/cpu? If it is memory related, but not the memory itself, then the CPU would be my next suspect. But also, if any data corruption occured on disk due to the unstable memory or OS crashes, that could be causing random crashes as well, or if the disk is failing as mentioned above.
 
Nobu said:
Has anyone mentioned the memory controller/cpu? If it is memory related, but not the memory itself, then the CPU would be my next suspect. But also, if any data corruption occured on disk due to the unstable memory or OS crashes, that could be causing random crashes as well, or if the disk is failing as mentioned above.
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First post said they tried a different cpu with the same results.

It all seems to trace back to the new memory. The recent rash of reboots with varied blue screens could be OS corruption or a failing drive but it sounds like that issue went away after putting the known working memory back in. It sounds like maybe the old memory isn't working as well either but it wasn't entirely clear from the last post and I didn't feel ike digging through the thread for info.

If the old memory isn't working as well it could be that the IMC was iffy and further degraded but usually that only occurs if you crank certain voltages too high. If the random blue screens continue with the old memory in it's likely that there's OS corruption or an issue with the drive.
 
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Ebernanut said:
First post said they tried a different cpu with the same results.
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For clarification DR = dual rank, SR = single rank. I think it would be feasible for two random Zen 3 CPUs to not be able to run 4 DR DIMMs of 3600MHz. Running 4 DR sticks is just something you should not do on this platform if you want high frequency memory. Again this is assuming these sticks are DR (8GB is SR, 32GB is DR, 16GB is usually DR but there are some SR DIMMs available)

Either 4 SR DIMMs or 2 DR DIMMs will give optimal performance and stress the IMC way less. Assuming BSODs stop at JEDEC like I suggested I'll double down on this as being the culprit. In that case if OP wants 64GB of RAM buy a decent 2 x 32GB kit.
 
Dopamin3 said:
For clarification DR = dual rank, SR = single rank. I think it would be feasible for two random Zen 3 CPUs to not be able to run 4 DR DIMMs of 3600MHz. Running 4 DR sticks is just something you should not do on this platform if you want high frequency memory. Again this is assuming these sticks are DR (8GB is SR, 32GB is DR, 16GB is usually DR but there are some SR DIMMs available)

Either 4 SR DIMMs or 2 DR DIMMs will give optimal performance and stress the IMC way less. Assuming BSODs stop at JEDEC like I suggested I'll double down on this as being the culprit. In that case if OP wants 64GB of RAM buy a decent 2 x 32GB kit.
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Yeah I wasn't disagreeing with that. That was the focus of my first post in this thread iirc.
 
Dopamin3 said:
Have you tried running your memory at JEDEC standard speed of like 2133MHz or 2400MHz? Whatever the BIOS defaults at.

Are these sticks single rank or dual rank? Trying to stabilize four dual rank sticks at 3600MHz will most likely be difficult. With Zen 3 you ideally want to run 4 single rank sticks or 2 dual rank sticks. Just because memtest passes doesn't mean CPU IMC can handle it. My gut says this is your issue.
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They're dual rank.
Ebernanut said:
A bad drive can cause random and varied blue screens like that but IME when a drive starts going you get a bunch of system freezes before it gets to that point.

Edit: Since the issue went away after swapping back to the known working memory that should rule it out as an issue.
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Rule what out as an issue?
 
Dopamin3 said:
For clarification DR = dual rank, SR = single rank. I think it would be feasible for two random Zen 3 CPUs to not be able to run 4 DR DIMMs of 3600MHz. Running 4 DR sticks is just something you should not do on this platform if you want high frequency memory. Again this is assuming these sticks are DR (8GB is SR, 32GB is DR, 16GB is usually DR but there are some SR DIMMs available)

Either 4 SR DIMMs or 2 DR DIMMs will give optimal performance and stress the IMC way less. Assuming BSODs stop at JEDEC like I suggested I'll double down on this as being the culprit. In that case if OP wants 64GB of RAM buy a decent 2 x 32GB kit.
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I may just get 2 x 32gb kit and see if it works. Any suggestions?
 
Percy said:
I may just get 2 x 32gb kit and see if it works. Any suggestions?
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https://www.newegg.com/mushkin-enhanced-64gb/p/N82E16820226993?Item=N82E16820226993

I would think the 3600MHz 16-19-19 1.40v kits are better than the 3600MHz 16-22-22 1.45v kits. ICs on the 16-19-19 are probably Hynix DJR, no idea what the 16-22-22 kits are. You currently have RGB RAM so if you wanted to keep that looks like you'd buy the slightly worse kit: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374061?Item=N82E16820374061

Before you just pull the trigger I would still suggest
1) Running all 4 sticks at JEDEC for a little to see if it has issues
2) Run 2 sticks at rated speed to see if it has issues
 
What software do you have installed? Anything like Corsair iCue or Asus Aura installed? Maybe something that can control RGB on RAM or motherboard?

Asking because a couple of years ago I had frequent kernal-level crashes and errors I couldn't explain. The solution for me ended up being to uninstall iCue.
 
Furious_Styles said:
Seems like you have RMA'd all the major components at this point. Done any testing to see if it might be your nvme drive?
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This enraged me on my wife's PC a few months ago, it was the nvme. Hers is an intel system though I thought 2 x 32GB ddr4 3600 would work well in my crosshair viii dark hero and it has since about two years ago without any niggles except I went out of my way to get rid of all the rgb software.
 
I just want to throw this in here, as I have been dicking around with my 7950X3D rig for weeks now. I finally found the root of the instability that was manifesting as RAM problems. It ended up being the case, or specifically the front panel header/USB. I swapped the whole system out with my B450 setup because all my good fans are in the case, lo and behold now that one is unstable and the 7950X3D on a cardboard box is stable as a rock. Now I have an extra $1000 worth of hardware laying around that I apparently didn't need to try and troubleshoot this problem. I'm so frustrated lol.
 
LigTasm said:
I just want to throw this in here, as I have been dicking around with my 7950X3D rig for weeks now. I finally found the root of the instability that was manifesting as RAM problems. It ended up being the case, or specifically the front panel header/USB. I swapped the whole system out with my B450 setup because all my good fans are in the case, lo and behold now that one is unstable and the 7950X3D on a cardboard box is stable as a rock. Now I have an extra $1000 worth of hardware laying around that I apparently didn't need to try and troubleshoot this problem. I'm so frustrated lol.
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Yeah that's an odd one. Definitely need to disconnect everything but the absolute essentials when troubleshooting.
 
Furious_Styles said:
Yeah that's an odd one. Definitely need to disconnect everything but the absolute essentials when troubleshooting.
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Whats worse is I was mildly suspicious for a while because plugging USB into the system would take like 30-45 seconds to recognize and sometimes the front ports would not work at all. I found one of the ground tangs on one of the plug was bent over some, I'm guessing the port is damaged inside. Naturally thats the one where I had my mouse dongle plugged in.
 
LigTasm said:
Whats worse is I was mildly suspicious for a while because plugging USB into the system would take like 30-45 seconds to recognize and sometimes the front ports would not work at all. I found one of the ground tangs on one of the plug was bent over some, I'm guessing the port is damaged inside. Naturally thats the one where I had my mouse dongle plugged in.
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Yeah if that happened I would immediately suspect mobo or port problem, you were on to something there, should've followed your instincts!
 
When I've had these issues it was related to a bad hard drive.

It throws you off because you think its RAM or CPU.... Which is actually related to the problem. Since Windows swaps (virtual memory) between the hard drive and RAM everything is fine until it swaps. It writes to disk and with disk errors, when the OS pages it back into RAM, it has corruption which cause the blue screen.

Try turning off virtual memory (swap file) to see if it impacts your stability. Also HD-Tune your SMART codes to see if its reporting danger.

Also another thing to maybe try is this:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/p.../it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc757875(v=ws.10)
But only look at that if you are comfortable with registry tweaks. (Set that to 1 and it might help with blue screens in the case of disk issues)
 
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Well I recently purchased RAM from the QVL List, and that worked a day before I started getting BSOD's again. I'm officially parting out this build and moving to Intel. I'm over it.
 
Who knows? Could be MB related. I think you stopped debugging and started a new build too soon. Good luck with your new build.
 
Mega6 said:
Who knows? Could be MB related. I think you stopped debugging and started a new build too soon. Good luck with your new build.
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MB was already RMA'd and it's giving me the same issues. Every other component has been replaced or RMA'd during troubleshooting.
 
Until you are able to get a self-built system stable at the specs that you think it should have, and you are willing to spend thousands or even millions of dollars just to replace parts, then I would completely suspend building and instead buy a custom pre-built. You will have the exact same problems with an Intel build as you did with your AMD build, especially since the DDR5 controller on an Intel CPU has speed restrictions with multiple memory ranks just like all AMD CPUs’ memory controllers have.

Officially, the Ryzen 5000 series CPUs can only run four dual-rank sticks of RAM at 2666 MT/s (DDR4-2666) maximum. Intel DDR5 platforms officially cannot run any stick of RAM at as high of a speed on a motherboard that has four DIMM slots as on a motherboard that has only two DIMM slots.
 
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Percy said:
Well I recently purchased RAM from the QVL List, and that worked a day before I started getting BSOD's again. I'm officially parting out this build and moving to Intel. I'm over it.
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What was the exact kit you tried and how many sticks?
 
I have a similar set of corsair sticks but mine are 3466. Everyone at the time said that they would go to 3600 no problem, but I could never get them to run at anything over 3466. More voltage, nope, looser timings, nope, they would not go any higher and it would lock up trying to post. At the time I built my rig it did have a 3900X and I just figured that the memory controller couldnt handle that. 4 16Gb sticks is a lot to ask of most cpus, so I just didnt worry about the small increase in speed.
 
E4g1e said:
Until you are able to get a self-built system stable at the specs that you think it should have, and you are willing to spend thousands or even millions of dollars just to replace parts, then I would completely suspend building and instead buy a custom pre-built. You will have the exact same problems with an Intel build as you did with your AMD build, especially since the DDR5 controller on an Intel CPU has speed restrictions with multiple memory ranks just like all AMD CPUs’ memory controllers have.

Officially, the Ryzen 5000 series CPUs can only run four dual-rank sticks of RAM at 2666 MT/s (DDR4-2666) maximum. Intel DDR5 platforms officially cannot run any stick of RAM at as high of a speed on a motherboard that has four DIMM slots as on a motherboard that has only two DIMM slots.
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It was stable for almost 2 years before I started having issues. All of my past builds have been Intel and have never ran into problems like this before, and to be quite honest, only thing I have purchased since this build was the corsair ram from Amazon to test it out and return.
 
Percy said:

‎https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081BTGNDH?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
4 sticks. I have tried Auto and DOCP with timings manually entered. Same outcome.
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By auto do you mean the JEDEC 2133MHz? Did you ever test running the system at that to see if it was stable?

My theory is this. You got a decent binned CPU at first allowing you to run 4 sticks @ 3600MHz but Asus ran VSOC voltage too high, causing a slow degradation on the CPU IMC. Thus causing your initial issue. The replacement CPU lost the silicon lottery on the IMC, not allowing it to be stable with your RAM configuration. If you actually tried running at 2133MHz and it still was unstable, I'm really not sure what the issue was.

Regardless I understand you're moving to a new Intel platform and I wish you luck on your new build. Don't expect high frequencies from 4 sticks on any platform. At least presuming you move to a DDR5 platform you can now get a 2 x 32GB kit or even a 2 x 48GB kit and still achieve decent speeds.
 
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Percy said:
It was stable for almost 2 years before I started having issues. All of my past builds have been Intel and have never ran into problems like this before, and to be quite honest, only thing I have purchased since this build was the corsair ram from Amazon to test it out and return.
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I ran an i9 10940X for about a year without issue at 3200 on the RAM, and then over the next year experienced random BSODs that became more and more frequent. Swapped RAM, new OS installs, new motherboard... it was the CPU's IMC that was degrading. It got so bad at the end that I'd get two or three BSODs a day, sometimes even just sitting at the desktop even at 2133. It happens.
 
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Dopamin3 said:
By auto do you mean the JEDEC 2133MHz? Did you ever test running the system at that to see if it was stable?

My theory is this. You got a decent binned CPU at first allowing you to run 4 sticks @ 3600MHz but Asus ran VSOC voltage too high, causing a slow degradation on the CPU IMC. Thus causing your initial issue. The replacement CPU lost the silicon lottery on the IMC, not allowing it to be stable with your RAM configuration. If you actually tried running at 2133MHz and it still was unstable, I'm really not sure what the issue was.

Regardless I understand you're moving to a new Intel platform and I wish you luck on your new build. Don't expect high frequencies from 4 sticks on any platform. At least presuming you move to a DDR5 platform you can now get a 2 x 32GB kit or even a 2 x 48GB kit and still achieve decent speeds.
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I'm just going to run it the way it is with the ram from my previous intel build as it works fine (F4-2666C15Q-32GRKB) , and decide what I want to do at the end of this year, either 14th gen or 15th gen. Just disappointed that I cannot run the ram I was previously using fine for a while.
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In regards running the G.Skill Trident Z 3600MHZ 4x 16gb Sticks. (2x F4-3600C16D-32GTZR) at default speeds. It was not stable and kept blue screening as well. Same with the QVL Corsair RAM I got from Amazon.

I also learned something from y'all today that CPU IMC's can degrade overtime. Thank you! This forum is where I learned all that I know now.
 
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