Analyst Predicts Xbox Brand Will Be Sold To Sony

This is what happens when you let 1,000 monkeys loose in a room full of typewriters!
 
odditory said:
Where are you getting the information that Xbox is its "third most profitable sector"? Do tell. Because the (actual) financials say otherwise.

In any case let's talk again on Thursday when the new financials are out.
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Yes this year it had a 229 Million operating loss, but an operating lose can be from anything, like R&D investment. Hum..... and the fact that the sales of consoles slowed is that not many people are going to buy the old gen console when the new gen is just around the corner. (But they still out sold the WII and WII-U and PS3) So them not being profitable one Year is saying they are in trouble. XBOX Division has been profitable years past and they make money on everything console now plus every game. That doesn't even include the Music and movie sides of it now.
 
Yeah, Sony or Barnes and Noble is buying Microsoft's X-Box Division and Best Buy isn't going out of business.


Bullshit and bad "prediction". This is why Forbes should stick to covering whatever the hell it is that it covers and leave the [H]ardcore tech analysis topics to the people who specialize in it and know what the fuck they're talking about.
 
DeathPrincess said:
But thiis:
Directx9.png


It started off as "DirectX box"! Which was a better name than OpenGLbox... That generation X stuff was just marketing nonsense! :D

Yes, even though the hardware itself is probably not the most profitable thing, the games and services probably are... (especially with the ads and subscriptions...)
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Yea, I had time to go back and look at the original idea's and some of the stuff Bill Gates was talking about. Funky how all their after marketing changed my view on the original box :eek: Still like the Green eye in the middle over what they chose. I should of known this since it was a big stink that they dropped all OpenGL support from the box right before they released the developer SDK's.


odditory said:
To bottomline the previous post and in case it wasn't obvious: Xbox360 (and PS3 even more so) have cost the company a NET LOSS since the inception of the device. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is profitable.

How One of Microsoft's Greatest Consumer Successes Is a Financial Failure

Xbox 360 and PS3 losses total $8 billion, ex-Sony employee paints grim future
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Yea uhh... not calling this person a liar but where did they receive that "actual net loss" numbers?

Second article sounds like a butt hurt ex-employee.
 
Only thing i remember is both X360 and PS3 were selling at a loss in units. But Licensing was supposed to gain them profit. Not sure how true that is, but I think it's accurate.
 
Trimlock said:
Yea uhh... not calling this person a liar but where did they receive that "actual net loss" numbers?

Second article sounds like a butt hurt ex-employee.
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1. Microsoft's own S.E.C. Filings.

2. Not an ex-Microsoft employee making the statements, but a game developer that worked at multiple co's working on console titles.

I never get too hung up on any one particular article or analyst's assessment, but when many arrows begin pointing at the same thing there may be something to it. anyone can look up past quarterly disclosures and SEC filings and see for themselves.
 
odditory said:
1. Microsoft's own S.E.C. Filings.

2. Not an ex-Microsoft employee making the statements, but a game developer that worked at multiple co's working on console titles.

I never get too hung up on any one particular article or analyst's assessment, but when many arrows begin pointing at the same thing there may be something to it. anyone can look up past quarterly disclosures and SEC filings and see for themselves.
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Its just hard to believe so a company would hold onto something when tanking so bad.

Either way would explain the rumors on the subpar console hardware next round.
 
Trimlock said:
Its just hard to believe so a company would hold onto something when tanking so bad.

Either way would explain the rumors on the subpar console hardware next round.
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Companies that can afford it will take huge losses for very long periods of time if they have a bigger motivation. Sometimes it just needs to be done because the future is heading that way, think of electric cars, companies that do not offer anything may be locked out in bad ways in the future with now patents to bargain with. This is why MS is all in on mobile and not going to stop even if it kills them. The question really is, does the xbox still fit in MS long term plan?
 
rudy said:
Companies that can afford it will take huge losses for very long periods of time if they have a bigger motivation. Sometimes it just needs to be done because the future is heading that way, think of electric cars, companies that do not offer anything may be locked out in bad ways in the future with now patents to bargain with. This is why MS is all in on mobile and not going to stop even if it kills them. The question really is, does the xbox still fit in MS long term plan?
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Well that was their reason for the original, but if they are losing more on the more successful version why stick with the same model. unless they are changing their scope on them next peice of hardware.
 
Steve said:
Microsoft will sell its Xbox brand to "someone like Sony?" Ummm, this guy is smoking crack if he thinks that would ever happen. I had to double check the calendar to make sure it's not April 1st. :rolleyes:
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I'm still drafting my own commentary on this report by Forbes, but on substance the author is correct on all points. The Home and Entertainment Division has bled money every single year since it was created and only extensive Hollywood Accounting has enabled Microsoft to claim that the division of Xbox was nearing profitability, despite eventually having to restate actual earnings and physical units sold 10 years running. Just a quick glance at the US trade bodies you have restatements to the Federal Trade Commission and Internal Revenue Service across 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and now 2012.

Quite simply: Microsoft has not been able to generate an actual PROFIT on Xbox for a literal decade.

Couple the inability of Microsoft to actually make money on the Home and Entertainment division with Steve Ballmer's irrational approach to management, and almost anything can happen. Assuming Steve Ballmer stays in charge of Microsoft is is very likely we will see Microsoft jettison the Xbox branding to a third party.

Now, will that party be Sony? Well, when Microsoft's CEO is best described as unhingined I think it would be very, very, very unwise to discount that possibility. Additionally, it would be an easy sell to the Sony stockholders, eliminating a major competitor and gaining that competitors audience. It would also probably fly with trade regulators giving the dominance of Nintendo in the console market.

One of the questions at hand is whether or not Kaz Hirai would actually want to buy the Xbox Portfolio. My gut reaction is that Kaz would likely make the bid if only to keep the Xbox Portfolio out of the hands of say Samsung.

My gut reaction, right now, is that Samsung is more than likely going to make an offer for the Xbox division in the next few months. Samsung has slowly been positioning themselves against Sony with the mentality of Anything you can do I can do better, and the logical extension of Samsung's expansions so far would be to go toe-to-toe with Sony's console and game publishing offerings. Given Steve Ballmer's current mental state, or lack there-of for those of us who managed to make it through Qualcomm's CES keynote, I can very easily see the world's Chair-throwing champion jumping at a Samsung bid just to get out of having to put the Project Durango costs on the 2013 Microsoft fiscal reports.

Another question at hand is whether or not Steve Ballmer will be allowed to retain control of Microsoft. Stockholders have been murmuring for a few years now over whether or not something should be done to remove Ballmer from his post. Considering the known financial results so far on the Windows 8 launch, and positively ice-cold reception Windows 8 got at CES, and the stage is set for Shareholders to get out while they still can.

The Forbes article makes a good point that Microsoft has played their hand. Microsoft has no other technologies, nor devices, in the pipeline that can drive the kind of sales Microsoft needs to just make payroll, much less support the company as it is.

IF the Shareholders do revolt and vote to eject Steve Ballmer and find a new CEO, then there might be a hope of Microsoft surviving. Right now though, I think Shareholders will be too busy getting the hell away from Microsoft to worry about trying to save the company.
 
Completely concur, Saist. Analysis like that almost has no place on forums since it tends to be end users bickering about preferred brands. I agree the biggest problem continues to be Ballmer still being at the helm. Unfortunately he's deeply entrenched and theyve got a lot of cash reserves so it would take an utter catastrophe to dig him out anytime soon.. As well, MS is able to keep coasting on momentum with the churn of business sector renewing enterprise licensing agreements. It's like perpetual status quo.

He's had nearly 13 years since Bill handed him the reins, and hasn't managed to budge the stock upward during that time. Shareholders have given him more than a fair shake. 2000-2010 is often termed "The Lost Decade" among analysts for good reason.

I happen to think they've got good new tech at the moment, but like a fat chick with a good personality, nobody can see it. Its being marketed completely wrong, and rolled out in cart-before-horse order. Someone that's a little more savvy and aggressive is what they need.

I dont think they'll give up the Xbox property any time soon, once again it boils down to corporate ego -- the same ego that dismissed Dell's warnings about RT branding creating confusion in the marketplace. Their insistence on branding EVERYTHING Windows is part of what's killing them right now. They can keep coasting on the successes of past products, but can't coast forever.
 
odditory said:
1. Microsoft's own S.E.C. Filings.

2. Not an ex-Microsoft employee making the statements, but a game developer that worked at multiple co's working on console titles.

I never get too hung up on any one particular article or analyst's assessment, but when many arrows begin pointing at the same thing there may be something to it. anyone can look up past quarterly disclosures and SEC filings and see for themselves.
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True. All the financial/business sites will tell you that the Xbox was a horrible failure. "Overall, the Xbox group has lost $4 billion for Microsoft."
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-losses-on-xbox-2012-6
 
BladeVenom said:
True. All the financial/business sites will tell you that the Xbox was a horrible failure. "Overall, the Xbox group has lost $4 billion for Microsoft."
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-losses-on-xbox-2012-6
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In fairness, that's only a problem for Microsoft and its investors. Consumers on a forum shouldn't be getting into a tizzy about the underlying financial realities of their preferred gaming platform (its not a platform preference issue anyway as Sony's in the same boat) or interpret financial forecasts it as "bashing", they should be happy because in essence Microsoft wanted people to have videogame consoles so badly that they paid for at least half of it. Consumers have benefitted greatly - they should be writing thank you letters to MS on their finest stationary.
 
And FWIW, a 60% majority of analysts are still rating MSFT as a buy, even after factoring Thursday's expected quarterly results.
 
Usually analysts predict the death of non-American gaming ventures and work hard to iron that in, as if they were funded to do so because it's supporting the economy to make shit up.

This guy doesn't, because he's not an American analyst.
 
odditory said:
they should be happy because in essence Microsoft wanted people to have videogame consoles so badly that they paid for at least half of it. Consumers have benefitted greatly - they should be writing thank you letters to MS on their finest stationary.
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No they shouldn't, because Microsoft screwed over PC gamers to do it. They converted all their PC gaming studios into Xbox gaming studios, or just shut them down. They looked at games that were going to be for the PC from other developers, and made deals to make them Xbox exclusives. The best games on the Xbox, would have been PC games, if it weren't for the Xbox.

So as a Windows customer, I have not benefited from the Xbox. It's the exact opposite.

So not only did they screw over their Windows gamers, they lost money doing it.

At least Valve appreciates PC gamers, and are coming out with Steam on Linux.
 
Well the consolification of PC gaming is definitely its own separate discussion. But I dont disagree, Windows desktop is the biggest installed base yet the lowest priority for MS as the latest marketing moves demonstrate.
 
Would also explain why Samsung hasn't even attempted to get into this market yet.

Don't get me wrong, if these new consoles come out with lower end equipment I would still purchase one as long as I could use it to replace my HTPC.
 
It's decided. I wanna be an Analyst when I grow old, feeble and stupid.
 
WorldExclusive said:
I wonder how many billions Valve will lose with their console.
This business model isn't sustainable. That's why it took so long for MS and Sony to release new consoles.
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Valve's "console" is a standard PC running linux in a small box. MS & Sony consoles both use a lot of custom or modified hardware. I think it'll work for no other reason than game companies will love the idea of not paying a percentage of sales to Sony/MS.
 
Atleast now we all know what Michael Pachter was talking about when he talks and talks and explained to everyone that Sony would win any console war :)

Just sell it to Sony , then Sony wins, what a brilliant plan , not sure if this was in Michal mind but thank you Adam Hartung, you made Michael Pachter day for sure :) .
 
BladeVenom said:
No they shouldn't, because Microsoft screwed over PC gamers to do it. They converted all their PC gaming studios into Xbox gaming studios, or just shut them down. They looked at games that were going to be for the PC from other developers, and made deals to make them Xbox exclusives. The best games on the Xbox, would have been PC games, if it weren't for the Xbox.

So as a Windows customer, I have not benefited from the Xbox. It's the exact opposite.

So not only did they screw over their Windows gamers, they lost money doing it.

At least Valve appreciates PC gamers, and are coming out with Steam on Linux.
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It wasn't the studios that screwed over the PC as much as essentially the halt to advancing DirectX. This limited the hardware advancement for Graphics. Graphics improvements don't just require more horsepower in the card, they require new features to really make strides. Microsoft has stifled this for the PC helping to trap the situation of make for Xbox, port to PC.
 
The guy is probably just trying to get his name in the headlines for additional recognition. Does not matter how outlandish his claim is, and this one is pretty out there, he just wants the additional fame and website hits.
 
Articles like that are hilarious since they always come from people who never understand how market segmentation works. In the modern computing market you have multiple segments at play:

- Consumer
- Enterprise

Within each of those you have additional subsegments:

o Consumer has Entertainment, Mobility, Desktop/Home Server, Hardware
o Enterprise has Mobility, Fixed Computing, Servers, Hardware, and High Reliability (medical, military, aerospace, Industrial, etc)

MS has definitely struggled in some portions of the Consumer segment but many of their failures have simply been bad timing or bad marketing. If Apple could go from the verge of bankruptcy to dominating the consumer segment there is no reason that MS couldn't reclaim their leadership if they really tried. They continue to dominate the Enterprise segment and even though Android and Apple have made some inroads that segment is still tightly in MS control.

Analysts love to throw these ridiculous suggestions out there since it generates more buzz and hits. But everyone can come up with an opinion, which is all this is. MS isn't stupid and I don't see them trying the circle the wagons approach which would pretty much cede the consumer market to other companies. Although that market isn't the most profitable for them they do not want to cede it and give up ;)
 
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