AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition Is A Letdown On Linux

[flu!d]

nV built their resources, AMD needs to do the same, take back marketshare in the Windows environment, as Mac stated ROI has to be high on current efforts before they start focusing on their stance on weaker markets. That is just smart business.

Throwing money into something that will have low ROI in the short term expecting it to grow based on a number of other companies and a total different set of market variables is only not smart its a recipe for disaster and a gamble.

AMD's weakness is their hot, underperforming hardware, and your overestimating the resources needed to develop a decent Linux driver.

It's this ignorance on behalf of AMD that is going to be their undoing. AMD has always been perceived as the underdog in comparison to Nvidia, Linux users like the underdog and I'm going to keep hammering home that a 1-2% marketshare globally is no small market. For AMD to ignore this userbase and assist in helping that market grow is just ludicrous.

 

[flu!d]

they have the resources, amd does not.

investing resources in 1-2% of revenue is wasting resources if by doing so you cut your more profitable segment by as much by reallocating said investment.

it isnt profitable. period. and wont be any time soon.

im done arguing with you people, your altruistic wishful thinking has no bearing on market realities and its like trying to argue with a brick wall.

Continue to believe what you wish, nothing is going to change anytime soon.

peace out.

Oh god. Peace out, go away.

 

[razor1]

AMD's weakness is their hot, underperforming hardware, and your overestimating the resources needed to develop a decent Linux driver.

It's this ignorance on behalf of AMD that is going to be their undoing. AMD has always been perceived as the underdog in comparison to Nvidia, Linux users like the underdog and I'm going to keep hammering home that a 1-2% marketshare globally is no small market. For AMD to ignore this userbase and assist in helping that market grow is just ludicrous.

as a whole the linux market isn't small, but when compared to the Windows market its a small pond to an ocean. AMD can try to become a big fish in a small pond in Linux, but the competition of having a huge fish there already is hard to over come, its not just resources (which if you think 1 million is small for AMD right now per year that isn't sane, they have been bleeding money, even 500k for them for year is large because its all in the red), they have to overcome the perception of their Linux and Ogl efforts and continued support of those efforts, and that takes time.

Remember when ATi stated they are remaking their Ogl drivers? Think that was the x1x00 series, nothing came of it because they needed to sustain that effort, it didn't happen.

 

[flu!d]

as a whole the linux market isn't small, but when compared to the Windows market its a small pond to an ocean. AMD can try to become a big fish in a small pond in Linux, but the competition of having a huge fish there already is hard to over come, its not just resources (which if you think 1 million is small for AMD right now per year that isn't sane, they have been bleeding money, even 500k for them for year is large because its all in the red), they have to overcome the perception of their Linux and Ogl efforts and continued support of those efforts, and that takes time.

Remember when ATi stated they are remaking their Ogl drivers? Think that was the x1x00 series, nothing came of it because they needed to sustain that effort, it didn't happen.

I keep hearing this, but where's the evidence that devoting a small proportion of resources to Linux driver development would mean the death of AMD? Who here can provide actual evidence of just how much it would cost AMD to improve their Linux driver development?

 

[razor1]

I keep hearing this, but where's the evidence that devoting a small proportion of resources to Linux driver development would mean the death of AMD? Who here can provide actual evidence of just how much it would cost AMD to improve their Linux driver development?

Its not going to be the death of AMD, but as management you don't want to show your investors, that we are in red and so we are going to go more in the red because of we are hoping it will bring us in to black at a future date which no one will know when that will happen.

Actually their situation right now, they can't get money without selling assets or using assets as collateral. They aren't in a position to invest money in anything right now outside of their core markets.

 

[flu!d]

Its not going to be the death of AMD, but as management you don't want to show your investors, that we are in red and so we are going to go more in the red because of we are hoping it will bring us in to black at a future date which no one will know when that will happen.

Actually their situation right now, they can't get money without selling assets or using assets as collateral. They aren't in a position to invest money in anything right now outside of their core markets.

As stated prior, it doesn't really matter to the Linux user as Nvidia are doing such a good job with their hardware/drivers under Linux that AMD are pretty much irrelevant. If AMD can't see potential in a possible growing market, than too bad for AMD. It's just a shame, because I believe in choice and Linux users are missing out on choice.

And I still don't see how shifting resources will necessarily cost AMD any extra at all.

 

[razor1]

As stated prior, it doesn't really matter to the Linux user as Nvidia are doing such a good job with their hardware/drivers under Linux that AMD are pretty much irrelevant. If AMD can't see potential in a possible growing market, than too bad for AMD. It's just a shame, because I believe in choice and Linux users are missing out on choice.

And I still don't see how shifting resources will necessarily cost AMD any extra at all.

Shifting resources isn't just money its time, and time is also money. I think they do see the potential in it, and that's why they are doing arm based CPU's, those are all going to be running Linux, yeah Windows RT or what ever they are going to call is there but that's pretty small right now.

Linux users are stuck with one choice for now. Understanding nV has put in years (decades even) of time and money into Linux/Ogl development, AMD can't turn that tide in a quarter or two, its going to take years to make decent penetration, something they don't have right now. If things start to shift back to some semblance of normal marketshare holdings with Zen and AI in their respect markets, I'm sure this management will do much better than past AMD management.

 

[jwcalla]

AMD can't afford to recompile their Qt app for Linux, but they can somehow afford to jettison their CEOs with golden parachutes every two years. They always have money for that. I'm telling you, this whole company is a fraud that has been fleecing its stockholders for years.

Sure, they're probably not going to be profitable targeting Linux any time soon. Though from the looks of it their PC gaming division hasn't been profitable in awhile either, so they might as well shutter that too. They can't afford to lose more money on that effort.

I agree it would be risky to think the Steam Machines have a future... but if they do take off AMD won't be able to say, "Oh crap... this thing is serious! Let's get our drivers up to snuff!" They could try, but the bad reputation will have already been cemented, and they won't be able to wash away that stink for at least a decade. Think of all the times people say they buy nvidia cards for the "better drivers". AMD still hasn't gotten over their history.

All that besides, the headline is a bit misleading. This isn't just a Linux problem for AMD. It's an OpenGL problem on all platforms. It's why they're completely useless in the CAD market. And good luck selling many of those high-margin FirePro cards if you don't take OpenGL seriously. But AMD isn't interested in selling high-margin FirePros. They want to sell cheap APUs in $300 laptops.

AMD has been phoning it in for years. I have no sympathy for their situation.

 

[flu!d]

Shifting resources isn't just money its time, and time is also money. I think they do see the potential in it, and that's why they are doing arm based CPU's, those are all going to be running Linux, yeah Windows RT or what ever they are going to call is there but that's pretty small right now.

Linux users are stuck with one choice for now. Understanding nV has put in years (decades even) of time and money into Linux/Ogl development, AMD can't turn that tide in a quarter or two, its going to take years to make decent penetration, something they don't have right now. If things start to shift back to some semblance of normal marketshare holdings with Zen and AI in their respect markets, I'm sure this management will do much better than past AMD management.

I wouldn't say Nvidia has put decades into Linux, it's only since the push by Valve to adopt Linux as a gaming platform that Nvidia has improved their Linux drivers in leaps and bounds - So we'd be talking, realistically speaking, a couple of years at best by the time Nvidia really got their act together.

 

[flu!d]

They want to sell cheap APUs in $300 laptops.

This is a good comment, I like this.

 

[Pieter3dnow]

AMD can't afford to recompile their Qt app for Linux, but they can somehow afford to jettison their CEOs with golden parachutes every two years. They always have money for that. I'm telling you, this whole company is a fraud that has been fleecing its stockholders for years.

You can say a lot about AMD management but what is there for them to bring money to the table , there is a time and place for anything. If they were totally apathetic towards Linux then would they have bothered with Vulkan ? Because Vulkan is not going to be big on Windows.

That whole company pushed gaming forward that is something Nvidia and Intel never did anything, getting screwed over by Intel and Nvidia on several fronts in the end did not help, I keep wondering if these companies make such a superior product why would they have to do these things?

 

[razor1]

I wouldn't say Nvidia has put decades into Linux, it's only since the push by Valve to adopt Linux as a gaming platform that Nvidia has improved their Linux drivers in leaps and bounds - So we'd be talking, realistically speaking, a couple of years at best by the time Nvidia really got their act together.

Nah man nV has been putting up resources for Ogl and Linux since the start of real time 3d, when they were competing against 3dfx, one of the reason why 3dfx failed was because of their poor support of Ogl. ATi was around that time too, they were always at the outside of the competition and didn't really focus on Ogl either.

ATi's 3d division didn't take off till they had the 9700 which had great Direct X support, prior to that even their Direct X support wasn't that good (drivers wise). When ATi had the money and resources available to them they didn't use them wisely and this is all on them. At the time they were small and nimble enough to push for more supporting platforms and nothing ever materialized. nV even though bleeding money from their poor fx series started and really pushed their game dev program.

This has/is the difference between ATI/AMD's vs nV's mentality when creating a support system for their hardware sales. Its not a short term thing, if executed diligently and well though out, it will help in the long run to drive sales. It comes from many different platforms, not just Windows.

ATi selling off their mobile unit, was dumb, I was surprised when they did that. Things like this shows they were only thinking of short term gains, its one thing if they just shut down or slowed down the division by laying off some of its work force but selling it?

 

[flu!d]

Nah man nV has been putting up resources for Ogl and Linux since the start of real time 3d, when they were competing against 3dfx, one of the reason why 3dfx failed was because of their poor support of Ogl. ATi was around that time too, they were always at the outside of the competition and didn't really focus on Ogl either.

ATi's 3d division didn't take off till they had the 9700 which had great Direct X support, prior to that even their Direct X support wasn't that good (drivers wise). When ATi had the money and resources available to them they didn't use them wisely and this is all on them. At the time they were small and nimble enough to push for more supporting platforms and nothing ever materialized. nV even though bleeding money from their poor fx series started and really pushed their game dev program.

This has/is the difference between ATI/AMD's vs nV's mentality when creating a support system for their hardware sales. Its not a short term thing, if executed diligently and well though out, it will help in the long run to drive sales. It comes from many different platforms, not just Windows.

ATi selling off their mobile unit, was dumb, I was surprised when they did that. Things like this shows they were only thinking of short term gains, its one thing if they just shut down or slowed down the division by laying off some of its work force but selling it?

Valid points, agreed on all levels.

 

[Anarchist4000]

It's already known AMD is putting significant resources into Linux drivers. Nintendo likely running Android (Google adopted Vulkan for it) on the NX and AMD hardware there necessitates they have linux drivers. The focus however would be Vulkan and not OpenGL.

As for the drivers in the op post, I'm not sure the current linux kernel fully supports them. Link. All of that would would seem to be associated with frame pacing and a lot of the new features released with Crimson. So while there may have been some optimizations, I have a feeling a lot of the features can't be enabled yet. Git also showed AMD with 30+ people making commits for an internal project.

I won't even try to argue that Linux is currently a good gaming platform. That said, the potential is there and the platform appears to be realizing that potential in the near future.

 

[razor1]

Well their focus is Vulkan that is for sure, open source drivers are nice but working with hardware, people that work on drivers need to know many nuances before they can work on drivers, from a hardware perspective and this is what is missing from on Ogl driver perspective.

If AMD is able to do this well with Vulkan there will be no need to open source them and at the same token they still need to keep pushing it forward even if they open source them because generation to generation driver code is going to be very different, they can't drop it like they did with Ogl otherwise everything they have done will go to waste on the Linux platform. its all about patience and long term goals in a mature market.

 

[flu!d]

Nvidia drivers aren't open source.

Personally, as a Linux user, I don't expect everything to be FOSS - And if it means better driver support under Linux than AMD can make them as proprietary as they want IMO.

I've got plenty of software here on my Linux box that I bought purely because the package was so good. Personally I see Vulkan as a quite exciting step in the right direction.

 

[Flogger23m]

Where in that quote did I mention the iphone?!

You were mentioning how wonderful Linux is because it is installed (or other OS which are based on a Unix fork) on a bunch of low end non-gaming devices in a thread about gaming. At this point Linux is about as good as OSX for gaming, which is abysmal.

And how can you in any way claim that Windows is a superior OS when you had to use a Linux live DVD to fix a borked Windows installation!

Windows 8/8.1 is not the same as Win 7. Been using 7 for years and had zero issues with it. It is practically bulletproof for an OS. Even Vista was more stable than 8/8.1.

And for what it's worth, booting via Live media into Linux is a great way to rectify Windows issues, especially when it comes to viruses, malware and spyware.

It certainly is. Sadly that is the only real use I have for it and I've only needed it once.

As for applications, I don't really find this to be an issue. I run only native Linux software and there’s always an alternative...

Wonderful. For me that is certainly not the case. Using some second rate alternative or not being able to play the games I want kills the concept of using Linux for me and millions of others. A OS is useless if you can't use it to do what you want. I can either use Windows for everything or mess around dual booting and using Windows and Linux. Until that changes the choice is really simple.

Believe me, if I could get quality customer support, stability and program choice on Linux for free I'd never use Windows again.

 

[n=1]

nV built their resources, AMD needs to do the same, take back marketshare in the Windows environment, as Mac stated ROI has to be high on current efforts before they start focusing on their stance on weaker markets. That is just smart business.

Throwing money into something that will have low ROI in the short term expecting it to grow based on a number of other companies and a total different set of market variables is only not smart its a recipe for disaster and a gamble. AMD is in not in a position to take such a gamble, a million here or there is big for them as they haven't been bringing in much money the past few quarters.

QED and /thread pretty much

 

[flu!d]

You were mentioning how wonderful Linux is because it is installed (or other OS which are based on a Unix fork) on a bunch of low end non-gaming devices in a thread about gaming. At this point Linux is about as good as OSX for gaming, which is abysmal.

Gaming on mobile devices is literally a huge market. Just because you can't play BF4 on your iphone doesn't by any means indicate that the current state of gaming on portable devices is abysmal. I've got some games on my Nexus 9 that run great on it's 192 core Kepler GPU, I don't always enjoy sitting at my desk in front of a screen playing games and it's great firing up a game when I'm out and about - Half Life 2 looks awesome on my N9. OSX is pointless for gaming, the hardware is vastly underpowered and completely un-upgradeable where it matters, from this perspective I see Linux as a potentially better platform for gaming.

Windows 8/8.1 is not the same as Win 7. Been using 7 for years and had zero issues with it. It is practically bulletproof for an OS. Even Vista was more stable than 8/8.1.

I'm not disputing this fact, as far as Windows goes, Windows 7 was great. But we aren't just talking about Windows 7 here, we're talking about Windows in general. And I'm sorry, but when it comes to productivity, I find Linux with a decent desktop manager smashes Windows in literally every way possible - Look to one of my earlier posts as to why I believe this is the case.

It certainly is. Sadly that is the only real use I have for it and I've only needed it once.

I have an arsenal of Live DVD's all based around Linux that I use numerous times weekly repairing Windows machines.

Wonderful. For me that is certainly not the case. Using some second rate alternative or not being able to play the games I want kills the concept of using Linux for me and millions of others. A OS is useless if you can't use it to do what you want. I can either use Windows for everything or mess around dual booting and using Windows and Linux. Until that changes the choice is really simple.

Believe me, if I could get quality customer support, stability and program choice on Linux for free I'd never use Windows again.

I'm not disputing this point, as stated, I run a very capable Windows 10 machine just to play BF4, the newly released Battlefront and the like - But that's all my Windows 10 machine is used for unless I have some specific Windows only need as a result of my business in computer repair, which is very rare.

I still game under Linux as there's a number of titles I like on Steam that run great on my Linux box - Naturally it just depends what's available.

The way I see it, unless you are a niche professional (ie: graphic design, music production) the Linux alternatives work beautifully. As an amateur photographer I find the latest version of GIMP to work great, it's also fantastic for cropping/adding and manipulating layers to website designs, and I no longer have to run a pirated version of Photoshop because I quite simply could not justify the expense of the software as an amateur.

And transitioning from Photoshop to GIMP wasn't hard in the slightest, contrary to what certain individuals would like you to believe.

However, as stated, a great proportion of the software I use is available on Windows/OSX and Linux, so it's a non issue for me.

The number of times I've heard Windows users claim the transition from Windows to Linux is impossible due to certain software packages they use, only to find years later they finally decided to bite the bullet and fully transition only to find the Linux way of things better really is quite amazing.

When it comes to support, I find an open source, passionate community of individuals backed by some of the largest players in the computing industry to offer far better support than large multinational corporations who won't do anything unless it fits in with their release schedule. Hell, I remember having an issue with an application under MorphOS (most people have never even heard of this OS) only to have the problem resolved the very next day!

Large corporation doesn't always = good, timely support.

 

[noko]

I believe AMD should promote and push more of the Linux strength (Community development) of their drivers on Linux. Maybe allow programmers/developers to come and join the AMD team (unpaid of course) on Linux development. In other words open source driver development has some great support from AMD with direct development between the proprietary and open source. In the end I think Vulkan will take care of this disparity since it is already more to the metal. So AMD in the end may have a good solution for Linux as it is - Vulcan.

 

[razor1]

no one in their right minds would join a company and not get paid lol, specially for the work they would be doing, this isn't a job for interns, driver coding is complex and needs to be done by people that have been doing it for some time.

 

[reaper12]

This appears to me to be a kneejerk comment based on no more than generalization.

There is nothing to fear about a modern distro of Linux people, you all seem blindly terrified by the thought of using Linux and I can assure you your fears are totally unfounded and based somewhere in the early 2000's!

You'll notice that in my desktop screenshot there is none of the usual terminal goodness that Linux users like to show off in an attempt to prove their vain superiority over Windows users, that's because most of the time the terminal is not needed, when it is needed you just follow instructions using cut/paste and all is good - OSX has a terminal, it's really not that scary.

Installing a modern distro of Ubuntu or Linux Mint is no harder than installing Windows, it's that simple. In fact, it's faster and easier as literally every application you need is pre packaged with the distro.

Do you know how many people I deal with just cannot get their head around installing software in OSX! The whole 'dragging to installation file to the applications folder' is so dumbed down it's actually pointless and confusing to a great many regular Joe's!

I don't want to say to this. You still don't seem to be getting the points that people are making. People here aren't against Linux or afraid of it. I actually like Linux. We are not arguing against Linux, we are just saying that at the moment it's not popular.

And AMD have been restructuring and refocusing their business. They are focusing on areas that will bring cash flow. They can't afford to gamble on insignificant markets that might not bring any returns.

I think Razor1 covered this very well.

 

[flu!d]

I don't want to say to this. You still don't seem to be getting the points that people are making. People here aren't against Linux or afraid of it. I actually like Linux. We are not arguing against Linux, we are just saying that at the moment it's not popular.

And AMD have been restructuring and refocusing their business. They are focusing on areas that will bring cash flow. They can't afford to gamble on insignificant markets that might not bring any returns.

I think Razor1 covered this very well.

The issue is that until the popularity of Linux as a gaming OS grows it's popularity is going to remain low, MS is going to continue to dominate and it's the consumer that will suffer as a result.

If you like Linux, great! Step out of your comfort zone, set up another box, install Linux, download Steam and start building your Linux gaming collection! Support something that is actually going to save the consumer money resulting in wins all round. You may be as surprised as I was when, in the end I realized Linux was way better, had a plethora of software applications available that supported everything I needed to do on a PC just as well, if not better than Windows and I found that I literally didn’t actually need Windows at all!

Everything I do now I do under Linux, I run my whole business, on Linux.

 

[reaper12]

The issue is that until the popularity of Linux as a gaming OS grows it's popularity is going to remain low, MS is going to continue to dominate and it's the consumer that will suffer as a result.

If you like Linux, great! Step out of your comfort zone, set up another box, install Linux, download Steam and start building your Linux gaming collection! Support something that is actually going to save the consumer money resulting in wins all round. You may be as surprised as I was when, in the end I realized Linux was way better, had a plethora of software applications available that supported everything I needed to do on a PC just as well, if not better than Windows and I found that I literally didn’t actually need Windows at all!

Everything I do now I do under Linux, I run my whole business, on Linux.

I have both. Have worked on both. But I always end up using the windows PC most often.

It's better for you, that doesn't make it better for everyone.

I am not sure what Linux would have to do to gain traction in the home market, but for the gaming market, if Linux can show that it can offer substantial gains in performance over the equivalent windows PC, then it might actually take big leap forward in popularity.

As I said maybe the steam box will be the first step in this direction.

 

[Darakian]

One thing should be clear about AMD's linux drivers; they are currently going through a major rewrite in order to be open sourced and integrated into the linux kernel. This is a big job and as others have pointed out linux is not a huge market so we can infer that this development will lag behind the windows driver. That said, going open source on their drivers appeals to a certain market that up until now has only been catered to by intel. I count myself as one of those that wants open drivers and that's part of why I have an AMD card.

 

[jwcalla]

AMD has had open source drivers for years. All they're working on now is providing a common kernel interface for both their open-source driver and their closed-source driver.

But both versions are still going to suck.

Just like their Windows drivers do.

 

[Darakian]

AMD has had open source drivers for years. All they're working on now is providing a common kernel interface for both their open-source driver and their closed-source driver.

But both versions are still going to suck.

Just like their Windows drivers do.

There have been open drivers for years, but they've been purely community driven. AMD is now developing the open driver for use as a stand alone driver or as a base for a closed driver.

Hate on them all you like, but this is an awesome development in my book.

 

[jwcalla]

There have been open drivers for years, but they've been purely community driven. AMD is now developing the open driver for use as a stand alone driver or as a base for a closed driver.

The open driver has been mostly developed by AMD for all these years.

 

[razor1]

There have been open drivers for years, but they've been purely community driven. AMD is now developing the open driver for use as a stand alone driver or as a base for a closed driver.

Hate on them all you like, but this is an awesome development in my book.

The community doesn't have the knowledge to create or support these drivers, that's why they are in the shape they are in. AMD needs to help the community by giving information vital to development and most likely some of that information will not be something they would want to give out on current generation products.

Creating hardware drivers there would be a need to have a deep understanding of many different IP's that go into the GPU, its not something that could be given to a community.

This is also why you don't see many open source drivers for current hardware.

 

[flu!d]

I have both. Have worked on both. But I always end up using the windows PC most often.

It's better for you, that doesn't make it better for everyone.

I am not sure what Linux would have to do to gain traction in the home market, but for the gaming market, if Linux can show that it can offer substantial gains in performance over the equivalent windows PC, then it might actually take big leap forward in popularity.

As I said maybe the steam box will be the first step in this direction.

I'm not suggesting that what's better for me may be better for everyone.

And when it comes to native, decent and not half arsed, Linux ports - Linux does hold a performance advantage over Windows. With none of the inbuilt spyware half baked tablet/desktop OS/bloat issues of Windows 10.

Once again, I'm in no way suggesting that PC users all switch to Linux. But the baseless negativity and blatant lack of support for an exceptional, free operating system, almost to the point of disgust from a handful of Windows users is just a recipe for the consumer to bend over and take it from Microsoft.

We're PC users, not Microsoft users.

 

[noko]

The community doesn't have the knowledge to create or support these drivers, that's why they are in the shape they are in. AMD needs to help the community by giving information vital to development and most likely some of that information will not be something they would want to give out on current generation products.

Creating hardware drivers there would be a need to have a deep understanding of many different IP's that go into the GPU, its not something that could be given to a community.

This is also why you don't see many open source drivers for current hardware.

I think you hit the nail on the head . Open source on very complex code, hardware etc. with a community do goody view will not bring about the dream of Linux where all code can be looked at and modified. It now takes large teams working together and literally years to make modern software. Random developers on the internet will not be able to piecemeal it together better.

Now if Linux has large sponsors like Intel, Valve etc. forming teams that work together for long periods of time maybe that would work. Meaning getting paid as well. Which in the end would probably become another competitor to Windows with big corporation sponsors.

 

[noko]

I'm not suggesting that what's better for me may be better for everyone.

And when it comes to native, decent and not half arsed, Linux ports - Linux does hold a performance advantage over Windows. With none of the inbuilt spyware half baked tablet/desktop OS/bloat issues of Windows 10.

Once again, I'm in no way suggesting that PC users all switch to Linux. But the baseless negativity and blatant lack of support for an exceptional, free operating system, almost to the point of disgust from a handful of Windows users is just a recipe for the consumer to bend over and take it from Microsoft.

We're PC users, not Microsoft users.

Except it is not free at all - you have to invest your time into Linux which to me is a price. Every time I dabbled in Linux I come away glad I had Windows that works and has professional Software that is constantly being improved upon. Hey if it works for you that is great, I will try Linux again in the future.

I could care less about Microsoft if their software works and there is some of the best software on the planet running on Windows that I use (my view on software). Of course there are some great software being run by Banks, Corporations using Linux but it is not open source nor free either.

 

[flu!d]

Except it is not free at all - you have to invest your time into Linux which to me is a price. Every time I dabbled in Linux I come away glad I had Windows that works and has professional Software that is constantly being improved upon. Hey if it works for you that is great, I will try Linux again in the future.

I could care less about Microsoft if their software works and there is some of the best software on the planet running on Windows that I use (my view on software). Of course there are some great software being run by Banks, Corporations using Linux but it is not open source nor free either.

Once again, seems like experience with an old distro.

A typical Windows install takes ~40mins give or take depending on the speed of your storage systems, then you need to install software and applications, tweak settings, etc.

By the time all this is done, depending on the speed of your internet, you looking at ~3-4 hrs before everything is setup and installed/updated, drivers installed, etc.

In ~30 mins, I can install a modern distro like Ubuntu or Mint and literally everything I need comes pre installed with the distro, from there I can run a script that installs everything else I use, the only driver to install is the Latest Nvidia drivers via PPA. 1hr tops and I'm all ready to go! I've had no issues with software support or updates under Linux, in fact I receive updates to both the OS and software/applications constantly, and I never have to reboot to apply them.

The Linux operating system is open source, some enterprise distro's may charge a fee that pretty much covers maintenance and support, but the source code has to be made public.

Contrary to popular Windows user belief, Linux isn't still in 2000, far from it in fact....And it is, in every sense of the word...Free.

Using Windows, you are in every sense of the word....Trapped, and making excuses for it. But I'm not here to force users to Linux, you work with whatever suits your needs.

 

[JustReason]

I loaded Unbutu on my old PC for the livingroom. gotta say Windows is far easier. Windows has far more settings to get thing the way I would like. I am sure after dredging thru the plethora of addons to Linux I may very well get it the way I would like but Linux is definitely not a set it and forget it OS. But on the positive side streaming Steam from my Windows based powerhouse is a definite plus and that Ubuntu cost nothing.

On a sad note, couldn't dl Mint seemed the site was down so got Unbutu instead. And my screen on my TV has the desktop cut off about 20 pixels as most say all around the screen. And any advice using TV setting is a no go.

 

[flu!d]

The unity interface is short on settings that are present in Mint, and IMO quite ugly. I'm not sure what on earth you can tweak in Windows to get it running the way you like as the UI is pretty much set, but give Mint a go and try to keep an open mind that's willing to learn and explore, free from bias.

What graphics system does your PC have installed? AMD/NV or Intel? Sounds like your display is attempting to scale the image and is not running 1:1?

 

[JustReason]

An old AMD 5450. May try Mint if the site is up.

 

[flu!d]

Once Mint is installed, go to Settings > Driver Manager and see if there is official drivers available for your card. I've never run AMD hardware under Linux as support is pretty poor. But the official drivers allow for more options, just like under Windows, than the open source alternative.

 

[JustReason]

the AMD drivers gave a lot more options for resolution. Unbutu had only 1080 and 720, which is the only options needed. But no scaling.

 

[flu!d]

Because you're using a TV as your display device it's important to make sure it's set to 1:1 with no scaling whatsoever. This can be called anything depending on the make/model of the TV - Something I learnt in my early days as a HTPC user.

 

[Darakian]

The open driver has been mostly developed by AMD for all these years.

So looking it up there do seem to be more amd emails than other here
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-ati/log/
Still there are a fair number of @gmail, @redhat, and @canonical emails in there.

Creating hardware drivers there would be a need to have a deep understanding of many different IP's that go into the GPU, its not something that could be given to a community.

This is also why you don't see many open source drivers for current hardware.

Just the other day someone at redhat submitted a patch enabling tesselation on pre-gcn gpus
https://plus.google.com/104877287288155269055/posts/5VykWM6F5WQ

Here's a patch from april developed by an intel person for the radeon driver
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/amd/drm-amd/commit/?id=16bb079e45f2c3a795b6b0546535cd6466275ec5

Also to your point about there not being many open drivers; pretty much every component on the market aside from nvidia cards and broadcomm wireless chips are available with good open drivers.

Now if Linux has large sponsors like Intel, Valve etc. forming teams that work together for long periods of time maybe that would work. Meaning getting paid as well. Which in the end would probably become another competitor to Windows with big corporation sponsors.

You mean like redhat, intel, TI, samsung, IBM and google?
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-develops-linux-the-answer-might-surprise-you