What's economics got to do with an environment?
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
AMD Radeon Software Crimson Edition Is A Letdown On Linux
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
What's economics got to do with an environment?
JustReason
razor1 is my Lover
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2015
- Messages
- 2,483
Oh...
So that's what makes a decent operating system, AAA games!
I'm so sorry, as stated, that settles the argument then. [sarcasm off]
Is that also the benchmark for an OS that's designed for gaming or 3D graphics?
It's like a little Windows bubble your all stuck in, isn't it?
I get you like Linux, but see what you are doing here? You are arguing against others you deem only want windows when you yourself is arguing for JUST Linux. Makes quite the cyclical argument. Now if you are arguing Linux should get more attention because of the possibility of being an equal or better platform then you should stick to that, might get more support for your argument.
I run both Windows and Linux machines.
I don't want everyone to switch to Linux, I make a living on rectifying virus, malware and spyware issues on the Worlds most insecure OS. If everyone was to switch to Linux I'd be out of a job!
Oh, ok.
So....Because you can't play the games you want to play under Linux than Linux should be abandoned as a gaming platform even though there is plans for an open API in the works free of the constraints of Microsoft, on a digital platform where there are no issues regarding supply vs demand making economics a moot point?
Especially considering Linux makes up the bulk of the OS market over a magnitude of devices?
KazeoHin
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 9,021
If everyone was using Ubuntu or Gnome, THEY would be the most insecure OS. Malware follows the market.
indeed, apple thought they were immune till they started getting market share....
Forced popularity has something to do with the numerous infection issues that plague Windows machines, this is true.
However, while Windows has improved slightly over the years by actually trying to copy Linux, the fact remains that the OS is notoriously insecure by design.
The number of infections I rectify, Apple vs MS machines, would be about 1 to 50. And the infections are a million times easier to rectify under OSX.
Which is interesting, as obviously you all deem OSX to be a decent gaming platform even though the hardware is severely underpowered?
Windows has the desktop market share, that's all. Everything else, including enterprise servers and networks, relies solely on Linux.
And my Nexus 9 runs a Maxwell GPU that also needs decent drivers - It is a computing device. Desktop application does not define a computing device.
Not really.
It is well known that Windows popularity has everything to do with the fact that it comes pre installed on literally every brand name boxed PC and laptop sold. The isn't coincidence, that's marketing.
Well that's not my findings at all.
You see, being able to make folders different colours so I can actually find them matters to me, I like being able to fade the current window using the mouse scroll wheel to see the window below it, I like the fact that I can customize my OS to suit my needs perfectly, I also like the fact that I can run my PC in SLS mode and have games span all displays but still have all the advantages of an extended desktop, I also like being able to switch so effectively between virtual desktops using a system that works far better than it does under Windows, not only that but I like the fact that I can run a separate X server on each display, effectively having a completely separate desktop on each display device all running off the one machine! And I love the fact that using Cairo Dock I can have windows open where ever I leave my mouse pointer on the desktop.
You see, to me, that's what makes an OS great. And coupled with the complete lack of infection issues and the ever increasing gaming support thanks to Valve and Vulkan I like to believe we don't all have to live in a corporate Windows bubble and we have more in the way of options and choice.
I'm not going to sit here and claim that we should game on MS products, because we should.
Last edited:
surprisingly, i find it interesting...
KazeoHin
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 9,021
I don't really have anything against linux!
I just don't really have anything FOR it.
I just don't really have anything FOR it.
Disposed
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2010
- Messages
- 5,211
From the standpoint of content providers windows is anything BUT locked down. Dont want to get into this little debate (thread crap) but that statement just stuck out pretty bad.
That's really incorrect. Sorry, but that's flat out incorrect.
As I've stated in a previous thread on this topic, there are no negatives to more choice.
A situation that's not going to change until you stop drinking the Microsoft Kool Aid.
You see, contrary to popular belief, Microsoft aren't the ones in control - The consumer is the one in control.
And going back to the original topic, if AMD choose to ignore Linux as a potential market, I'm not really bothered - Because Nvidia products work really, really well under Linux and I prefer Nvidia anyway! It's quite simply disappointing, because as can be seen, I'm an advocate for more choice and freedom of choice.
I can even overclock my GPU under Nvidia Linux drivers.
Last edited:
Disposed
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2010
- Messages
- 5,211
A situation that's not going to change until you stop drinking the Microsoft Kool Aid.
You see, contrary to popular belief, Microsoft aren't the ones in control - The consumer is the one in control.
And going back to the original topic, if AMD choose to ignore Linux as a potential market, I'm not really bothered - Because Nvidia products work really, really well under Linux and I prefer Nvidia anyway! It's quite simply disappointing, because as can be seen, I'm an advocate for more choice and freedom of choice.
I can even overclock my Nvidia GPU under AMD Linux drivers.
You can fight that fight all you want but eventually you will realize that you are indeed correct that the consumer has control but what you failed to realize is the vast majority of consumers dont give 2 shits.
Get out of the bubble and realize you are a tiny little minority. And no i dont mean because you support linux, i mean because you even know it exists. The average consumer is not even really aware of the existence of linux. The average consumer is a fucking idiot that buys the shiny shit he saw on TV. The average consumer is the guy getting hosed by geek squad. The average consumer is the guy that cant set the time on his fucking microwave. Its the average consumer that drives the market! Not enthusiasts like those here on this forum. These guys you are debating with will never be convinced. Fuck they are really only here to thread crap because they dont like linux and have to defend their precious AMD.
So yeah Microsoft dominates because of OEM partnerships. No, nothing you do will change that and the way you are going about it trying to preach to a bunch of enthusiast gamers, PC builders, and tech nerds in general is a massive waste of time.
You see, that's an interesting comment - And you're entirely correct, the average Joe consumer doesn't give two shits about what OS their PC runs, that's why forcing users to run Windows by installing it on virtually every brand name boxed PC ever sold (with the exception of China) has been so successful!
Right up to the point that they realize that they're constantly having to rely on someone like myself to remove viruses, malware and spyware from their machine due to some flash, or similar, based game they play on Facebook - Trust me, right at that point they're well aware of what OS they're running.
I have had a number of customers that I have converted full time to Linux as it suits the needs of most perfectly with none of the infection issues that plague Windows. I discuss the options with them, see what their needs are and what they expect out of their PC, and once I have worked out if Linux may be a more suitable OS I image their Windows install and install Linux Mint 17.2. Why Mint? Because it's as close as you will get to a Windows environment under Linux, and it's that environment that average consumers are used to - They wouldn’t even know what an operating system is with the exception that the one they're running now keeps getting bugs!
And out of all those customers I've only had to re-image one Windows install, and that was solely due to one terminal software package he was used to that I couldn't get working under Wine.
Things can change, and in the few years I have been running Linux pretty much full time I have never seen such an explosion of gaming titles that aren't based on Quake III or UT clones, and those titles are constantly expanding.
What you aren't understanding is that you are arguing for an API, not an OS. And if Vulkan takes off, and it very well may have the leverage it needs to do so, porting to systems outside of the DX monopoly won't be such an issue anymore. Especially when considering that balancing supply vs demand are no longer issues under a digital distribution platform and you've just expanded your market share to users beyond Windows alone - That 1 - 2% that we know of globally, the actual figure is most likely actually far higher, isn't a market to be ignored!
Last edited:
Disposed
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2010
- Messages
- 5,211
How many of those people have you converted to linux? Every single time i tried to move one of those people it was an absolute disaster.
I have never seen a single legit success story of moving an average joe over to linux, never. Keep in mind i have personally tried moving several people over thinking it was worth the effort. You know those guys that no matter how many times you tell them wallpapers dont come in a fucking .EXE package they still go out and do the same thing.......... I figured those guys where perfect candidates. NOPE! Even after explaining in detail to them what i was setting them up with i still ended up doing more work explaining the same shit over and over.
Joe consumer dont care, even with tons of viruses they still dont care. They just want their machine to do what they think its supposed to do.
I tried with mint like you did and was never successful. Not even close. So now with the special case idiots i just tell them to buy a tablet and call it a day, i dont make a living doing that crap any more and never want to again.
If the user knows what a .exe is than you're targeting the wrong users.
At a guess, I'd say that roughly 65% of my customers don't have a god damn clue when it comes to desktop computing, and it's these users that are dumping their desktop PC's for tablets - Because they don't have the infection problems on their tablets that they have on their computer (you'll notice I made no mention of an OS).
It's this 65% of my customer base that would have no idea that their PC isn't running Windows. As long as they know where the browser is, how to read and open emails, how to open a .pdf, and how to type up a letter, they're happy as a pig in shit.
And it's these people that shout me a beer at the pub when I ask them how they're computer's running, because when their PC has slowed to a crawl due to some stupid number of infections, they do care.
At a guess, I'd say that roughly 65% of my customers don't have a god damn clue when it comes to desktop computing, and it's these users that are dumping their desktop PC's for tablets - Because they don't have the infection problems on their tablets that they have on their computer (you'll notice I made no mention of an OS).
It's this 65% of my customer base that would have no idea that their PC isn't running Windows. As long as they know where the browser is, how to read and open emails, how to open a .pdf, and how to type up a letter, they're happy as a pig in shit.
And it's these people that shout me a beer at the pub when I ask them how they're computer's running, because when their PC has slowed to a crawl due to some stupid number of infections, they do care.
I can understand the position of AMD devs (and execs) that marketshare has to drive their support level.
But what will be the cutoff point that the same logic bites AMD in the ass? I.e., when AMD gets down to 20% GPU marketshare... 15%... 10%... 5%...? At what point will game devs stop bothering with getting their games working well on AMD GPUs?
But what will be the cutoff point that the same logic bites AMD in the ass? I.e., when AMD gets down to 20% GPU marketshare... 15%... 10%... 5%...? At what point will game devs stop bothering with getting their games working well on AMD GPUs?
JustReason
razor1 is my Lover
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2015
- Messages
- 2,483
Well maybe with Vulklan it will get easier and better. At least on the gaming side.
DedEmbryonicCe11
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
The thread title is confusing because I didn't know anyone expected the Linux drivers to be good yet. It was just a week ago that they got the open-source ones to clock up Tonga/Fiji from idle clocks. Give it like 6 months at least..
Perception is all that matters in the business word.
Free is perceived as inferior.
Like someone else said, i have nothing against linux, i actually run a tinkering box on mint.
There just isnt any reason to game in it.
I'm sorry my friend, but as an attempt at back peddling, that is the biggest load of rot I've ever read. I honestly don't believe you've ever used Linux at all.
Once again, the amount of FUD in this thread by Windows users is simply breathtaking! That free OS, as you so eloquently put it, is backed, and developed by some of the biggest players in the computing world, corporations that make MS look like a small fish is a really big sea - Large corporations by no means view Linux as inferior. And as an operating system, there's no reason not to do whatever you like on it, including gaming!
Try to understand the difference between an API and an OS, your whole argument is retarded!
Last edited by a moderator:
JustReason
razor1 is my Lover
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2015
- Messages
- 2,483
Too much anger!!! Look I am sure everyone here would agree the business world has a huge adoption of Linux based systems but that hardly has anything to do with personal computing. Businesses are counted as one unit even if they have 1000 sytems with Linux within. Hence why adoption from business doesn't really correlate to personal use.
I am still not getting this "either or" attitude. Doesn't make a great deal of sense in the grand scheme of things. Even trying to parallel this to some powerhouse comparison will net nothing as the facts in the end don't support the argument. For example I believe HSA is awesome and a needed software implementation for future progression. That belief whether fact or fiction changes not the current state. Doesn't matter if Linux is technically better or not. Either way doesn't change the facts of their % household use.
Last edited by a moderator:
Apparently AMD leaked a slide earlier in the week showing a significant bump in performance for their Linux drivers on some games.
So either those drivers didn't really come out this week... or that slide was........ let's say maybe it went through the AMD marketing department.