7900 xtx vs 4080 (used)

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pavel

Gawd
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I created a similar thread last summer. Some differences - I was considering a 3090 - I have a bit more $$ and I bumped up the budget. $1000 CAD - that corresponds or converts to $740 USD.

If you look at PCPartpicker - you can get an idea of the prices.

Here used - 4080 tends to be around $1500 - which is insane but I found a couple of used 4080s for $1000 cad - but, both were (apparently/presumably) sold within a couple of days.

One was a Gigabyte Eagle - I think I should have went for that one.

The reason I'm also considering a 7900 xtx - is obvious to gamers here - it's probably the 'better' card for gaming - but, I also use Linux - and should be good in general for that.

But, here's the problem: my priority is productivity - my plan is to use Blender and Davinci Resolve Studio - and other productivity programs - but, I will game too. I have friends who game - and I get invited to join them. I have a 4k TV as my display - so I prefer 4k res gaming at least 60 hz- and perhaps, one day I'll get a 120hz variable refresh display (probably another 4K TV).

Is there any hope for used 4080s going down to $1k in Canada? Do you guys (in the USA) suspect that vanilla (non-Super) 4080s will get price reductions when the 4080 Super releases? Do ppl sell their 4080s and go for the next higher card - either 4080 Supers or 4090s? I was kind of shocked and pleasantly surprised to see some vanilla 4080s on the used market for less than usual. It's nice to have a choice - between the 7900 XTX and another card.

Some used 7900 XTX gpus can be found here for $1150 CAD. ($850 USD). Sellers might go down $50-$100? AMD/AIB retailers might even lower their 7900 gpu prices soon, too - that might be another option - depending....

I prefer a current gen gpu rather than the 3090 - I decided that the 3090 is a good card - 24 of Vram but there are some concerns about the transient spikes, high power consumption, the memory/thermal pads (sometimes owners replaced them but not always) and most are nearing end of warranty. Does this make sense, guys? They're good cards but the Ada Lovelace / 40 series are more power efficient. Even the RDNA 3 / 7900 series can be argued as being more power efficient, right?

Thoughts?
My PC: 12700k, Z690 mobo, 64 DDR4 RAM, Corsair RM850X PSU (I hope to continue using the same psu - but, if I need a 1000w, then I'll get one but that adds to the cost).

OS: Windows 11; Linux: Fedora (latest), Nobara, Ubuntu
 
I know less about this, but I would probably go AMD because everything I’ve read is that in Linux nVidia drivers are still not great. Someone else more knowledgeable can chime in there. But my understanding is that AMD has been open sourcing drivers for a long time and offering good support there.

I'll also note that for productivity in general and video editing in particular AMD's cards perform quite well. Obviously if you're digging into programs that work exclusively off of CUDA libraries then AMD doesn't stand a chance.

For Resolve in particular, the 7900XTX is actually faster in a good chunk of things even compared to a 4090. The 7900XTX generally has better RAW decode, which depending on what you're editing (if you're spending a lot of time with REDcode RAW as an example) could be a significant benefit. And does equal or better on virtually all OpenFX items like denoise passes.

The problem is the other app you want to use, Blender is one of those programs that greatly favors nVidia GPU's due to leverage of CUDA and not open source libraries. So the 4080 will drastically perform better there.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-review/#Video_Editing_DaVinci_Resolve_Studio

So I would say if it's about compatibility, I'd go AMD. If it's mostly about video editing, also AMD. But if it's mostly about Blender and gaming, then nVidia has a significant lead there.

The other half that I won't comment on as much is price. Prices as you've noted before in Canada are just way different than the US. Unless you can look at prices on eBay and trust them to not send you a dead card, or you can easily drive across the US border to buy a card and then drive back, trying to come up with the price differential will just be hard. Suffice to say: even still I would expect that the AMD option will be significantly less.

If the prices are the same and there's no way around it, then yeah, frankly at that point I probably would just get the 4080. But that is contingent on, yes the price, but also how well the drivers would do in Linux.

Edits: just clarity, not content.
 
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who knows when the card prices will come down up here, but you wont be finding many sub-$1k 4080s any time soon. i also thought amd was the go to for linux now...
 
pendragon1 said:
who knows when the card prices will come down up here, but you wont be finding many sub-$1k 4080s any time soon. i also thought amd was the go to for linux now...
Click to expand...
Right. :-( I've seen 2 though - although, they were gone fairly fast - next cheapest is $1300 - a few but my upper limit is around $1000-$1100 - I was hoping vanilla 4080s might be that on the used market once the 4080 Super releases in Canuck Land? :-/

AMD is generally the pick for Linux boxes - but, when exclusively gaming - the choices becomes more complicated when you use productivity software - a long story, too, to explain.... :-(
 
Because of our over the top wealth in the AI business, we will be slashing all our MSRP consumer GPU pricing in half in the coming days. - Nvidia /s

DreamOn.jpg
 
UnknownSouljer said:
I know less about this, but I would probably go AMD because everything I’ve read is that in Linux nVidia drivers are still not great. Someone else more knowledgeable can chime in there. But my understanding is that AMD has been open sourcing drivers for a long time and offering good support there.

I'll also note that for productivity in general and video editing in particular AMD's cards perform quite well. Obviously if you're digging into programs that work exclusively off of CUDA libraries then AMD doesn't stand a chance.

For Resolve in particular, the 7900XTX is actually faster in a good chunk of things even compared to a 4090. The 7900XTX generally has better RAW decode, which depending on what you're editing (if you're spending a lot of time with REDcode RAW as an example) could be a significant benefit. And does equal or better on virtually all OpenFX items like denoise passes.

The problem is the other app you want to use, Blender is one of those programs that greatly favors nVidia GPU's due to leverage of CUDA and not open source libraries. So the 4080 will drastically perform better there.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...-review/#Video_Editing_DaVinci_Resolve_Studio

So I would say if it's about compatibility, I'd go AMD. If it's mostly about video editing, also AMD. But if it's mostly about Blender and gaming, then nVidia has a significant lead there.

The other half that I won't comment on as much is price. Prices as you've noted before in Canada are just way different than the US. Unless you can look at prices on eBay and trust them to not send you a dead card, or you can easily drive across the US border to buy a card and then drive back, trying to come up with the price differential will just be hard. Suffice to say: even still I would expect that the AMD option will be significantly less.

If the prices are the same and there's no way around it, then yeah, frankly at that point I probably would just get the 4080. But that is contingent on, yes the price, but also how well the drivers would do in Linux.

Edits: just clarity, not content.
Click to expand...
Yes, mostly editing - however, I would like the option to dabble in Blender - if I decide I want to get serious - I want the program to work and tasks to complete fairly quickly - Nvidia is generally the choice here, unfortunately. AMD was supposedly gonna catch up by now or at least be a solid 2nd choice - but, the jury is out.

Canada (used prices) -> 4080: $1000 (rare/occasionally) - $1300 (lowest, usually) - I'm ignoring any prices over that range.
I'm not looking at new cards (prices: $1600 and up).
-> 7900 XTX - $1000 - $1100 - I'm ignoring anything above this - I am fairly confident I could find a gpu of this series (used) in this price range.
*retail new prices - 7900 XTX - $1300+ tax.

Programs - Davinci Resolve - Nvidia or AMD - from my research - the support for Nvidia is better - but, AMD gpus are fine, too - especially the 7900 series - as your research/links illustrate - the 7900 XTX performs well in DR - especially certain tasks.
*In Linux though - there seems to be some complications with configuration and set up - it might need proprietary components/software/files. I guess it's not a deal breaker - I'd deal with it. I'm more concerned with using it with Blender.

Blender - Nvidia is better supported - CUDA - use of OptiX - delivers good performance. For contrast/comparison:
a 4070 and 4070 Ti - a 12gb gpu - w/ OptiX enabled - performance exceeds a 7900 XTX - which has to use HIP-RT to even compete. That is, if the ray tracing tech. for Blender w/ AMD - is working.

Anyway, my dilemma - I tried to explain.... I also acknowledge/observe that the 40 series seems to be more efficient w/ power consumption....although, I think my psu is sufficient for either card.

Other potential issues if using Linux - Wayland Display Server - AMD has better support for it - whereas Nvidia is in progress and development - many issues remain (allegedly/apparently).
 
pavel said:
I created a similar thread last summer. Some differences - I was considering a 3090 - I have a bit more $$ and I bumped up the budget. $1000 CAD - that corresponds or converts to $740 USD.

If you look at PCPartpicker - you can get an idea of the prices.

Here used - 4080 tends to be around $1500 - which is insane but I found a couple of used 4080s for $1000 cad - but, both were (apparently/presumably) sold within a couple of days.

One was a Gigabyte Eagle - I think I should have went for that one.

The reason I'm also considering a 7900 xtx - is obvious to gamers here - it's probably the 'better' card for gaming - but, I also use Linux - and should be good in general for that.

But, here's the problem: my priority is productivity - my plan is to use Blender and Davinci Resolve Studio - and other productivity programs - but, I will game too. I have friends who game - and I get invited to join them. I have a 4k TV as my display - so I prefer 4k res gaming at least 60 hz- and perhaps, one day I'll get a 120hz variable refresh display (probably another 4K TV).

Is there any hope for used 4080s going down to $1k in Canada? Do you guys (in the USA) suspect that vanilla (non-Super) 4080s will get price reductions when the 4080 Super releases? Do ppl sell their 4080s and go for the next higher card - either 4080 Supers or 4090s? I was kind of shocked and pleasantly surprised to see some vanilla 4080s on the used market for less than usual. It's nice to have a choice - between the 7900 XTX and another card.

Some used 7900 XTX gpus can be found here for $1150 CAD. ($850 USD). Sellers might go down $50-$100? AMD/AIB retailers might even lower their 7900 gpu prices soon, too - that might be another option - depending....

I prefer a current gen gpu rather than the 3090 - I decided that the 3090 is a good card - 24 of Vram but there are some concerns about the transient spikes, high power consumption, the memory/thermal pads (sometimes owners replaced them but not always) and most are nearing end of warranty. Does this make sense, guys? They're good cards but the Ada Lovelace / 40 series are more power efficient. Even the RDNA 3 / 7900 series can be argued as being more power efficient, right?

Thoughts?
My PC: 12700k, Z690 mobo, 64 DDR4 RAM, Corsair RM850X PSU (I hope to continue using the same psu - but, if I need a 1000w, then I'll get one but that adds to the cost).

OS: Windows 11; Linux: Fedora (latest), Nobara, Ubuntu
Click to expand...
If you're using Blender at all, get an Nvidia card. If you can find a used 4080 for a grand, i don't see the problem. You may want to see what a new 4080s costs new, they're $999 USD.
 
Decko87 said:
If you're using Blender at all, get an Nvidia card. If you can find a used 4080 for a grand, i don't see the problem. You may want to see what a new 4080s costs new, they're $999 USD.
Click to expand...
I basically agree with this. It's just a matter of Linux support after cost in terms of how I see things.
Because even if nVidia is faster here, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. There is no way around it. That's actually why I think the decision making tree is simple.

1.) Does the nVidia card work in Linux? (yes/no)
If yes, then:
2.) Can I get the nVidia card for the same price as the AMD card? (yes/no)
If yes: Buy nVidia

If no to (1): buy AMD.
If no to (2): are the prices close enough to be margin of error or do the nVidia prices reflect the increase in value to be worth stepping up to?
If yes: buy nVidia. If no: buy AMD.

We could keep hashing benches over and over again, but I feel like we already know where that stuff sits and it's no longer the most relevant thing to coming to a purchasing decision. It's just going to come down to compatibility and cost. Again, if nVidia doesn't work it doesn't work. And if the AMD card can be had for half the nVidia card (not saying it can, just an example), then even with the performance penalty in Blender it seems obvious that you'd just buy the AMD card at that point.

You (Pavel) just have to decide at what ratio of cost is it worth stepping up to nVidia and where is it not. Personally if I was to see that the reality was that there was always going to be a $200-$300 CAD difference, I'd probably go AMD. And if the price difference was $100-$150 or so, I'd go nVidia. That's just me, you have to figure out what it is for you.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
I basically agree with this. It's just a matter of Linux support after cost in terms of how I see things.
Because even if nVidia is faster here, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. There is no way around it. That's actually why I think the decision making tree is simple.

1.) Does the nVidia card work in Linux? (yes/no)
If yes, then:
2.) Can I get the nVidia card for the same price as the AMD card? (yes/no)
If yes: Buy nVidia

If no to (1): buy AMD.
If no to (2): are the prices close enough to be margin of error or do the nVidia prices reflect the increase in value to be worth stepping up to?
If yes: buy nVidia. If no: buy AMD.
Click to expand...
UnknownSouljer said:
We could keep hashing benches over and over again, but I feel like we already know where that stuff sits and it's no longer the most relevant thing to coming to a purchasing decision. It's just going to come down to compatibility and cost. Again, if nVidia doesn't work it doesn't work. And if the AMD card can be had for half the nVidia card (not saying it can, just an example), then even with the performance penalty in Blender it seems obvious that you'd just buy the AMD card at that point.

You (Pavel) just have to decide at what ratio of cost is it worth stepping up to nVidia and where is it not. Personally if I was to see that the reality was that there was always going to be a $200-$300 CAD difference, I'd probably go AMD. And if the price difference was $100-$150 or so, I'd go nVidia. That's just me, you have to figure out what it is for you.
Click to expand...
The problem with saying 'working/not-working' is depending on the definition, though? If you know about Linux and Nvidia - the state of things right now - you know about Wayland Display Server? Obviously, nvidia is closed source and that's the problem here. If I just use Windows - and I probably will for 'starters' - I'll use my programs in Windows but I gradually want to switch over to Linux and try to use the same software. Nvidia - there are developments of improvements for stability - for e.g., there's reports of flickering with Wayland. One just has to do a web search for 'Linux nvidia Wayland' and see what you are returned with. :) Make sure you filter results to the last month, though.
For price - I don't know. I think I missed a good deal but then I don't know - I have only found TWO good deals for cards - and one was a Palit - which has no American or Canadian distributer and they didn't have a receipt/invoice so I passed. The other seller had a Gigabyte - and it was sold on the 2nd day of the ad. Retail/new cards are too expensive (for me) - as they're rather overpriced in general - I believe they're even more expensive when you do the conversion rate (compared to prices in the USA). Therefore, I'm waiting for the 4080 Super release to see what happens to new/retail prices of 4080s - hopefully, they reduce sufficiently - since, that would result in used prices going down - I would hope.

As for 1) nvidia gpus working in Linux y/n - I would say 'yes' with * (*conditions/depends) - it definitely has more issues or 'breakages' - but, it is getting better. There's better support in the software I mentioned.

2) Maybe / Not at the moment - the 7900 XTX is $1100 ish (maybe I can get another $50 or $100 off? is that reasonable to ask sellers?) - the cheapest 4080 (used) is $1300 so far. Although, I have found $1000 ones - but, only 2. My thinking was to wait until the end of next week to see if any further cards go on the used market closer to the $1000 mark.

There's also the speculation/theory that released cards are above msrp at first, anyway - so, it might be a few weeks or months before the prices stabilize? That's a major concern. :-/
 
pavel said:
For price - I don't know. I think I missed a good deal but then I don't know - I have only found TWO good deals for cards - and one was a Palit - which has no American or Canadian distributer and they didn't have a receipt/invoice so I passed. The other seller had a Gigabyte - and it was sold on the 2nd day of the ad. Retail/new cards are too expensive (for me) - as they're rather overpriced in general - I believe they're even more expensive when you do the conversion rate (compared to prices in the USA). Therefore, I'm waiting for the 4080 Super release to see what happens to new/retail prices of 4080s - hopefully, they reduce sufficiently - since, that would result in used prices going down - I would hope.
Click to expand...
Go to eBay, check to see the prices of the cards that have sold in Canada (specifically sold, a listing that has a high price and doesn't move is worthless). I'm not saying to buy from eBay, but it's good to check to see what the buying/selling sentiment is. A huge part of even understanding what is attainable is actually knowing what stuff sells for. Figure out what is the low, median, and high average price for a card. If you want to get specific, you can actually do this to the point of understanding even specific vendor cards or special models and how they are priced higher or lower than the market average.

You'll spend a lot less time wondering if something is a good deal or not if you had any sense of the market. It's the same knowledge that allows "flipping" to work. It's working knowledge of the prices, therefore knowing what a good deal is, and then it's a totally unemotional "buy" or "don't buy" based on whether it's an amount you're willing to spend or not (condition being all equal).

The trouble is you may be looking for outliers that come very rarely (some guy who doesn't care and just is trying to unload their card quick) and having some sort of expectation that that is "normal". And you may (if you're remotely interested in buying soon) have to figure out what the average price is to know what is a "reasonable" price is for a card. However if you find out what is 'abnormal' that still advantageous to know, because then you'll finally get off your ass and actually buy something when you realize you're looking at a deal that happens <5% of the time. If you've ever watched any flipper show, it's this knowledge that makes experienced buyers pounce. They know what they're looking at, they know it's value, and they know this is an outlier in terms of cost.

But just let me tell you straight up, having the expectation that you're going to get a deal that happens <20% of the time isn't reasonable or rational. Sometimes you're just trying to work the averages and anything in the middle is okay. And knowing the middle again will help you to at least determine if it's even rational to be pursing one card over the other. And to a degree this knowledge also helps in negotiations.

I would never say the line: "I saw this sell on eBay for $xxx", believe me when I say that's not a good tactic (the response will always be: "then buy it from eBay then"), but if you know the average price or whatever you can also be under the assumption the other person at least has some level of understanding of the market too (it's possible they don't, more on that in a sec). Then when you ask for a discount, the amount you ask for can be based on actual sales data and can still be considered reasonable to the seller. Some guy selling a $1400 card trying to price up (when you know the average is $1300), you can likely easily get $100 back off of it, and maybe $150 if you push, and $200 if you get any sense that this guy is impatient for any reason. And if the guy doesn't know the market and fights with you about it, that's when you just walk away (literally or figuratively). Don't get "invested" in buying from any person.

I feel awkward explaining this stuff because it's buyer/seller 101. But perhaps people who haven't spent as much time buying and selling on the used market don't know this stuff. I have been doing it, or being involved in it in someway for well over 26 or so years at this point. I worked for/with dealers in collectables for a few years, but also mainly this is how I've always bought and sold gear. In the camera world buying used is like always getting a 20%+ discount with essentially no downside.
pavel said:
As for 1) nvidia gpus working in Linux y/n - I would say 'yes' with * (*conditions/depends) - it definitely has more issues or 'breakages' - but, it is getting better. There's better support in the software I mentioned.
Click to expand...
For me it's still a "yes/no" question. When you waffle it tells me that you don't consider anything this card needs to do mission critical. Either that or whether real or perceived you don't consider the issues to "be that bad". Do people have to try and do fixes that take an order of days in order to work around? Could there be disruptions to work flow outside of your control that could take an hour+ to resolve? Does that matter?
pavel said:
2) Maybe / Not at the moment - the 7900 XTX is $1100 ish (maybe I can get another $50 or $100 off? is that reasonable to ask sellers?) - the cheapest 4080 (used) is $1300 so far. Although, I have found $1000 ones - but, only 2. My thinking was to wait until the end of next week to see if any further cards go on the used market closer to the $1000 mark.
Click to expand...
I covered this all above. Learn the market. You're guessing a lot because you don't know the averages in your market at all.
pavel said:
There's also the speculation/theory that released cards are above msrp at first, anyway - so, it might be a few weeks or months before the prices stabilize? That's a major concern. :-/
Click to expand...
Hard to know. I assume either way you'd wait for the 4080Super to drop just because it will likely shake around the new market and therefore the used market. It does mean that if your goal is to get the cheapest low cost card you'd likely have to wait longer to know what the established market will be selling things for.

Everything else is, not a gamble per se, because you're getting this for personal use and not a flipper business... but it's harder to know if you're spending above average or below average cost for something in a market that fluctuating. It's "more risky" in the sense of "over spending", but if you can "get over that" (which I recommend you do) then anything still at the bottom end of average in the current market should be "okay" in the upcoming one.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Go to eBay, check to see the prices of the cards that have sold in Canada (specifically sold, a listing that has a high price and doesn't move is worthless). I'm not saying to buy from eBay, but it's good to check to see what the buying/selling sentiment is. A huge part of even understanding what is attainable is actually knowing what stuff sells for. Figure out what is the low, median, and high average price for a card. If you want to get specific, you can actually do this to the point of understanding even specific vendor cards or special models and how they are priced higher or lower than the market average.

You'll spend a lot less time wondering if something is a good deal or not if you had any sense of the market. It's the same knowledge that allows "flipping" to work. It's working knowledge of the prices, therefore knowing what a good deal is, and then it's a totally unemotional "buy" or "don't buy" based on whether it's an amount you're willing to spend or not (condition being all equal).

The trouble is you may be looking for outliers that come very rarely (some guy who doesn't care and just is trying to unload their card quick) and having some sort of expectation that that is "normal". And you may (if you're remotely interested in buying soon) have to figure out what the average price is to know what is a "reasonable" price is for a card. However if you find out what is 'abnormal' that still advantageous to know, because then you'll finally get off your ass and actually buy something when you realize you're looking at a deal that happens <5% of the time. If you've ever watched any flipper show, it's this knowledge that makes experienced buyers pounce. They know what they're looking at, they know it's value, and they know this is an outlier in terms of cost.

But just let me tell you straight up, having the expectation that you're going to get a deal that happens <20% of the time isn't reasonable or rational. Sometimes you're just trying to work the averages and anything in the middle is okay. And knowing the middle again will help you to at least determine if it's even rational to be pursing one card over the other. And to a degree this knowledge also helps in negotiations.

I would never say the line: "I saw this sell on eBay for $xxx", believe me when I say that's not a good tactic (the response will always be: "then buy it from eBay then"), but if you know the average price or whatever you can also be under the assumption the other person at least has some level of understanding of the market too (it's possible they don't, more on that in a sec). Then when you ask for a discount, the amount you ask for can be based on actual sales data and can still be considered reasonable to the seller. Some guy selling a $1400 card trying to price up (when you know the average is $1300), you can likely easily get $100 back off of it, and maybe $150 if you push, and $200 if you get any sense that this guy is impatient for any reason. And if the guy doesn't know the market and fights with you about it, that's when you just walk away (literally or figuratively). Don't get "invested" in buying from any person.

I feel awkward explaining this stuff because it's buyer/seller 101. But perhaps people who haven't spent as much time buying and selling on the used market don't know this stuff. I have been doing it, or being involved in it in someway for well over 26 or so years at this point. I worked for/with dealers in collectables for a few years, but also mainly this is how I've always bought and sold gear. In the camera world buying used is like always getting a 20%+ discount with essentially no downside.

For me it's still a "yes/no" question. When you waffle it tells me that you don't consider anything this card needs to do mission critical. Either that or whether real or perceived you don't consider the issues to "be that bad". Do people have to try and do fixes that take an order of days in order to work around? Could there be disruptions to work flow outside of your control that could take an hour+ to resolve? Does that matter?

I covered this all above. Learn the market. You're guessing a lot because you don't know the averages in your market at all.

Hard to know. I assume either way you'd wait for the 4080Super to drop just because it will likely shake around the new market and therefore the used market. It does mean that if your goal is to get the cheapest low cost card you'd likely have to wait longer to know what the established market will be selling things for.

Everything else is, not a gamble per se, because you're getting this for personal use and not a flipper business... but it's harder to know if you're spending above average or below average cost for something in a market that fluctuating. It's "more risky" in the sense of "over spending", but if you can "get over that" (which I recommend you do) then anything still at the bottom end of average in the current market should be "okay" in the upcoming one.
Click to expand...

Ebay sucks/sucked. I looked - yep, it still sucks. Nothing there - either newegg or auctions....the private sellers were few and if any - the gpus were 'for parts' or overpriced.

Wow, over 26 years? Well, in terms of used computer hardware - I don't have that kind of experience. I've bought one brand new gpu (3060) when I finally had enough cash to invest in a PC - and then bought 2 used gpus - one was an RX 580 and the other one was a 3080 10gb - purchased after the 3060 was sold.

Now, I'm trying to buy a used gpu again - I am sooooo concerned about the market and what will happen - I was waiting b4 and saving up more cash (to add to my 'sold 3080 fund') - so, I'd like to buy soon. I'm kicking myself for not getting this 4080 Eagle I found recently - seller was asking $1k CAD - and it's only 1 of 2 4080s I've found so far for $1k - the other was a Palit (we don't even have that brand in our country - so I was apprehensive and the seller was kind of shady). The Eagle sounded good - seller had a receipt but it was sold around 2 days after the ad. Now, the cheapest 4080s I find are $1300 CAD - considerably more expensive.

I think I have to pick an Nvidia - it checks the boxes for the software I will use - and in Linux, supposedly it is getting better in - with Wayland - whereas with AMD - the productivity software - is up and down - various complaints of issues and it seems, it takes eons for things to get fixed. The problem is it sounds like there's too much risk there - the 7900 xtx is good on paper - 24gb of vram - quite a bit more than the 16gb on the 4080 - it performs a bit better in gaming - although, that's not my priority - and it has open source support in Linux - HOWEVER, afaik - I will need to use closed source components to use the programs/software in Linux - Blender and Davinci Resolve both needs proprietary components? Pretty complicated. That means manual configuration to get the software working - so, the perceived advantage there is kind of lost (foss advantage for gaming still exists, though).

In Windows, the gpus are equally good - afaik - although, some ppl claim that AMD still has more drivers issues. The other pro - is that the 7900 series cards are slated to have another price reduction soon - eventually, in the near future.

I think, if I can find another Nvidia 4080 for $1000 CAD - I should try harder to get it - is there any to stay away from? The Gigabyte Eagle seemed good - the Palit maybe not but I was gonna pass on it anyway. The ones I found recently FE and PNY Verto are $1300 - I asked one seller if he'd go down but of course, I got no reply at all. :-(
My only hope is that the 4080 Super is priced is exactly along the lines what the media speculated - the $999 USD - but, in Canada - that the markup isn't too much - i.e. not much more than $1350 cad - the used sellers would have to come down, right?!??!? :-{
 
pavel said:
Right. :-( I've seen 2 though - although, they were gone fairly fast - next cheapest is $1300 - a few but my upper limit is around $1000-$1100 - I was hoping vanilla 4080s might be that on the used market once the 4080 Super releases in Canuck Land? :-/

AMD is generally the pick for Linux boxes - but, when exclusively gaming - the choices becomes more complicated when you use productivity software - a long story, too, to explain.... :-(
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The problem is that the 4080 Super is only going to be about 2-5% faster than the 4080. So nobody is going to sell their 4080 to upgrade to the Super.

Also the 4090 is sold out so there's really no practical upgrade path from the 4080. This is probably why you're having trouble finding it used at cheap prices.

But good luck in your search. It all depends on what you need from your video card. AMD and Nvida both offer pros and cons for your situation but AMD is generally available for cheaper.
 
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vjhawk said:
The problem is that the 4080 Super is only going to be about 2-5% faster than the 4080. So nobody is going to sell their 4080 to upgrade to the Super.

Also the 4090 is sold out so there's really no practical upgrade path from the 4080. This is probably why you're having trouble finding it used at cheap prices.

But good luck in your search. It all depends on what you need from your video card. AMD and Nvida both offer pros and cons for your situation but AMD is generally available for cheaper.
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Yes, seems so - but, also the 4080 Super is supposedly going to be cheaper than the non-Super 4080s already in stores or online vendors - so, shouldn't they be reduced? That should put pressure on used gpu prices - 4080s?

I'm also looking at the 4070 Ti Super - but, it seems like a much worse performer and it's $1100 CAD. It's my max. - but, I thought I could find a 4080 for that - even if it's used. I found 2 4080s for $1000 - one was a Palit and the seller was kinda shady - it was gone 2 days later and I found a Gigabyte 4080 Eagle - same thing - although, that seller had the invoice/receipt so I was interested - but, it also sold the next day (practically).

I found a 4080 FE - for $1250 - any chance to negotiate? I am just wondering if I should just set a max. I'll pay and stick to it - e.g. $1100? ($1100 cad to usd is $820 USD - would you guys buy a used 4080 for that)?

A used 7900 XTX is the same price. That is - if I find any - there's sometimes one or two around for that. Although, a lot of sellers want $1300+ and that's ridiculous since those gpus may come down in price soon!

The only concern I had is the 16gb - maybe that's enough vram?
 
pavel said:
Yes, seems so - but, also the 4080 Super is supposedly going to be cheaper than the non-Super 4080s already in stores or online vendors - so, shouldn't they be reduced? That should put pressure on used gpu prices - 4080s?

I'm also looking at the 4070 Ti Super - but, it seems like a much worse performer and it's $1100 CAD. It's my max. - but, I thought I could find a 4080 for that - even if it's used. I found 2 4080s for $1000 - one was a Palit and the seller was kinda shady - it was gone 2 days later and I found a Gigabyte 4080 Eagle - same thing - although, that seller had the invoice/receipt so I was interested - but, it also sold the next day (practically).

I found a 4080 FE - for $1250 - any chance to negotiate? I am just wondering if I should just set a max. I'll pay and stick to it - e.g. $1100? ($1100 cad to usd is $820 USD - would you guys buy a used 4080 for that)?

A used 7900 XTX is the same price. That is - if I find any - there's sometimes one or two around for that. Although, a lot of sellers want $1300+ and that's ridiculous since those gpus may come down in price soon!

The only concern I had is the 16gb - maybe that's enough vram?
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You can always wait until the 4080 Super drops if that's what you're betting will happen but personally if I owned one I wouldn't sell my 4080 to buy a 4080 Super.

16GB is enough VRAM for 4k, assuming that's your resolution. For 1440P I wouldn't worry about 16GB at all.

Now if the 4080 only had 12GB then I'd worry.

7900 XTX is slightly faster than Nvidia 4080 for raster. But the 4080 has literally all the other features, ray tracing, DLSS, certain apps it will crush etc.

I'm not in Canada so I don't know the market except that it sounds higher than here in the US. Guess you'll have to go with what's available. Check out the sell/trade forums here as well. Generally people here are more reputable.
 
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vjhawk said:
You can always wait until the 4080 Super drops if that's what you're betting will happen but personally if I owned one I wouldn't sell my 4080 to buy a 4080 Super.

16GB is enough VRAM for 4k, assuming that's your resolution. For 1440P I wouldn't worry about 16GB at all.

Now if the 4080 only had 12GB then I'd worry.

7900 XTX is slightly faster than Nvidia 4080 for raster. But the 4080 has literally all the other features, ray tracing, DLSS, certain apps it will crush etc.

I'm not in Canada so I don't know the market except that it sounds higher than here in the US. Guess you'll have to go with what's available. Check out the sell/trade forums here as well. Generally people here are more reputable.
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I concede your point, totally. I meant, if a 4080 owner has to sell for any reason - needs money, wants a 4090 - etc. - if the 4080 Super is released with this 'lower price' like everyone is saying it's gonna have (personally, I'm skeptical/cynical - but, I hope they're right!!!) - then the 4080 sellers ought to have a devalued card, no? Some used prices have come down a bit but many are selling their 4080s $100 less than the current 4080 prices. That brings me to another point - what will happen to current retail prices of 4080s - won't they come down if the 4080 Super will be priced less? $999 USD is still $1341 CAD - we usually have a 'Canuck tax' - meaning products/hardware are rarely ever priced 'exactly' at the conversion rate so let's assume the price starts at $1400 CAD - the current 4080 cards' prices start at $1600.

4080 owners who decide to sell their cards - they are only gonna sell if they're no higher in the top $1200-ish range, no?

The sell/trade forums would be fine - except, I think most ppl using them are in the USA - and we don't really have free trade if you know what I mean? :-/
 
pavel said:
4080 Tuf is a good card, right? 4080 FE also? Doesn't matter?
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One thing you should be aware of is that the 4080 is a VERY long card. 310mm length for the 4080 FE.

You might need to buy a new case to fit it.

I just measured the clearance in my own case and it can only fit a video card with a max length of 292mm.

I would suggest you measure inside your case where you will put your video card. If you don't have enough space, now you need to budget for a newer, bigger case as well.
 
vjhawk said:
One thing you should be aware of is that the 4080 is a VERY long card. 310mm length for the 4080 FE.

You might need to buy a new case to fit it.

I just measured the clearance in my own case and it can only fit a video card with a max length of 292mm.

I would suggest you measure inside your case where you will put your video card. If you don't have enough space, now you need to budget for a newer, bigger case as well.
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My case is a Phanteks P500A - my Tuf 3080 fit in it - I think I'll be okay - although, you're right - I could measure/check the dimensions but I didn't think there is a gpu in the 4080 or 7900 XTX series that would cause a problem with fitting.

I just asked since I just found another 4080 for sale (okay price - but, I think the better the price - the faster it goes) - and I want either a Tuf, FE, PNY or MSI - anyway - if I can find one. Gigabyte might be okay, too.

Apparently, it supports gpus up to 435mm in length.
 
I had to get a smaller rtx 4090 to fit in my large pc tower.

Worked out in the end.

At first though I almost bought too big of a rtx 4090.
 
Update if anyone cares - mostly to ppl who want to advise me - some guys here have WAY more buying experience - both retail and used gpus - and that's very useful and helpful... :)
I recently chatted with 2 sellers - semi-seriously but not really - since both are not very close to me - one isn't local. One guy has multiple cards and builds PCs (*why would they be selling their gpus, then?!?) and wants $1300 shipped - it's out of my price range so I said, can't sorry - I'd need to save up more - also, it's not really a good deal, right? $1300 CAD is $966 USD (Aren't 4080 Supers there $999 retail?).

The other guy is at least in my province but it's like 2.5 hrs away - and I don't have great vibes - like I have qualms about legitimacy - dunno if outright scamming but I am skeptical.
GPU is sealed in a box - another one of those sellers who gets a card and can't return it - claims they got it from ebay and couldn't return it - they bought a 4090 afterwards so selling this Tuf 4080. Price is lower than all the other used 4080s I've found - $1100 CAD - $817 USD. Not too bad? Would like it lower but in Canuck Land - most 4080s (used) have asking prices around $1400 ish or higher - 1040 USD. 2 hrs is a long way to drive if things don't work out - but, maybe they would flake out if I agreed to get it? I'd still need to come up with the extra $$ but it'd be easier than the other seller.

Sorry for the long message - but, it might be interesting to evaluate sellers/ppl? :)

NEW 4080 Supers start at $1379 (if in stock) CAD ($1024 USD). Tax brings them up to $1500 ish. Vanilla 4080s are still expensive - $1600 and up. So, not even considering the new cards.

Any advice?: just keep waiting for gpus to go down (meaning wait a long, long, long time), pursue this 'cheaper' 4080 that's kinda far away but theoretically, I could get it in person - (4080 Tuf - sealed, supposedly purchased on ebay and couldn't return - bought 4090 - as reason for selling - typical behavior? :))
The other guy is in a different province and wants to charge me exorbitant shipping fees - well, it might be at normal shipping charges - as it's expensive to ship something like this - it's a Founders Edition - and supposedly he's sold 2 others. It's too expensive so I told him I'd think about it but if he has offers, good luck.
I could also pursue a 7900 XTX which might have more chances to find a cheaper gpu? However, the only seller I found wants $1200 CAD ($892 USD) - Sapphire Nitro - isn't that high?
 
How do you know that those cards weren't on 24/7 and used for bitcoin mining or AI?
 
pavel said:
Update if anyone cares - mostly to ppl who want to advise me - some guys here have WAY more buying experience - both retail and used gpus - and that's very useful and helpful... :)
I recently chatted with 2 sellers - semi-seriously but not really - since both are not very close to me - one isn't local. One guy has multiple cards and builds PCs (*why would they be selling their gpus, then?!?) and wants $1300 shipped - it's out of my price range so I said, can't sorry - I'd need to save up more - also, it's not really a good deal, right? $1300 CAD is $966 USD (Aren't 4080 Supers there $999 retail?).

The other guy is at least in my province but it's like 2.5 hrs away - and I don't have great vibes - like I have qualms about legitimacy - dunno if outright scamming but I am skeptical.
GPU is sealed in a box - another one of those sellers who gets a card and can't return it - claims they got it from ebay and couldn't return it - they bought a 4090 afterwards so selling this Tuf 4080. Price is lower than all the other used 4080s I've found - $1100 CAD - $817 USD. Not too bad? Would like it lower but in Canuck Land - most 4080s (used) have asking prices around $1400 ish or higher - 1040 USD. 2 hrs is a long way to drive if things don't work out - but, maybe they would flake out if I agreed to get it? I'd still need to come up with the extra $$ but it'd be easier than the other seller.

Sorry for the long message - but, it might be interesting to evaluate sellers/ppl? :)

NEW 4080 Supers start at $1379 (if in stock) CAD ($1024 USD). Tax brings them up to $1500 ish. Vanilla 4080s are still expensive - $1600 and up. So, not even considering the new cards.

Any advice?: just keep waiting for gpus to go down (meaning wait a long, long, long time), pursue this 'cheaper' 4080 that's kinda far away but theoretically, I could get it in person - (4080 Tuf - sealed, supposedly purchased on ebay and couldn't return - bought 4090 - as reason for selling - typical behavior? :))
The other guy is in a different province and wants to charge me exorbitant shipping fees - well, it might be at normal shipping charges - as it's expensive to ship something like this - it's a Founders Edition - and supposedly he's sold 2 others. It's too expensive so I told him I'd think about it but if he has offers, good luck.
I could also pursue a 7900 XTX which might have more chances to find a cheaper gpu? However, the only seller I found wants $1200 CAD ($892 USD) - Sapphire Nitro - isn't that high?
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The 2.5 hour away one sounds more promising. And if you drive to get it, would save shipping. Ask to meet someplace public so you aren't getting robbed at gunpoint and end up with no card no money.

The FE's here sold at the new retail price, but everything is sold out. 3 4080 Supers sell for the $999, 1 at $1029, 2 at $1049, 2 at $1099, and 1 at 1249 the Asus Strix. All sold out. For the old 4080's they are all sold out except 1 open box at 1079. (at Best Buy)

So used 4080's probably not going to be very many available at all :/
 
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pavel said:
Update if anyone cares - mostly to ppl who want to advise me - some guys here have WAY more buying experience - both retail and used gpus - and that's very useful and helpful... :)
I recently chatted with 2 sellers - semi-seriously but not really - since both are not very close to me - one isn't local. One guy has multiple cards and builds PCs (*why would they be selling their gpus, then?!?) and wants $1300 shipped - it's out of my price range so I said, can't sorry - I'd need to save up more - also, it's not really a good deal, right? $1300 CAD is $966 USD (Aren't 4080 Supers there $999 retail?).

The other guy is at least in my province but it's like 2.5 hrs away - and I don't have great vibes - like I have qualms about legitimacy - dunno if outright scamming but I am skeptical.
GPU is sealed in a box - another one of those sellers who gets a card and can't return it - claims they got it from ebay and couldn't return it - they bought a 4090 afterwards so selling this Tuf 4080. Price is lower than all the other used 4080s I've found - $1100 CAD - $817 USD. Not too bad? Would like it lower but in Canuck Land - most 4080s (used) have asking prices around $1400 ish or higher - 1040 USD. 2 hrs is a long way to drive if things don't work out - but, maybe they would flake out if I agreed to get it? I'd still need to come up with the extra $$ but it'd be easier than the other seller.

Sorry for the long message - but, it might be interesting to evaluate sellers/ppl? :)

NEW 4080 Supers start at $1379 (if in stock) CAD ($1024 USD). Tax brings them up to $1500 ish. Vanilla 4080s are still expensive - $1600 and up. So, not even considering the new cards.

Any advice?: just keep waiting for gpus to go down (meaning wait a long, long, long time), pursue this 'cheaper' 4080 that's kinda far away but theoretically, I could get it in person - (4080 Tuf - sealed, supposedly purchased on ebay and couldn't return - bought 4090 - as reason for selling - typical behavior? :))
The other guy is in a different province and wants to charge me exorbitant shipping fees - well, it might be at normal shipping charges - as it's expensive to ship something like this - it's a Founders Edition - and supposedly he's sold 2 others. It's too expensive so I told him I'd think about it but if he has offers, good luck.
I could also pursue a 7900 XTX which might have more chances to find a cheaper gpu? However, the only seller I found wants $1200 CAD ($892 USD) - Sapphire Nitro - isn't that high?
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Factor in gas, time and tolls, my time is worth minimum 50 dollars an hour. If you're driving and electric car and can get some free charging I'd probably still do it. If I have to pay for gas, it's probably more expensive tacking on the hours and gas.
 
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pavel said:
Ont.
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ontarible?! sorry aboot that! ;) was just down in kingston, most of my fam is back there. ill still keep an eye on kijiji for ya, cheap enough and it might be worth the shipping...
 
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pavel said:
Update if anyone cares - mostly to ppl who want to advise me - some guys here have WAY more buying experience - both retail and used gpus - and that's very useful and helpful... :)
I recently chatted with 2 sellers - semi-seriously but not really - since both are not very close to me - one isn't local. One guy has multiple cards and builds PCs (*why would they be selling their gpus, then?!?) and wants $1300 shipped - it's out of my price range so I said, can't sorry - I'd need to save up more - also, it's not really a good deal, right? $1300 CAD is $966 USD (Aren't 4080 Supers there $999 retail?).

The other guy is at least in my province but it's like 2.5 hrs away - and I don't have great vibes - like I have qualms about legitimacy - dunno if outright scamming but I am skeptical.
GPU is sealed in a box - another one of those sellers who gets a card and can't return it - claims they got it from ebay and couldn't return it - they bought a 4090 afterwards so selling this Tuf 4080. Price is lower than all the other used 4080s I've found - $1100 CAD - $817 USD. Not too bad? Would like it lower but in Canuck Land - most 4080s (used) have asking prices around $1400 ish or higher - 1040 USD. 2 hrs is a long way to drive if things don't work out - but, maybe they would flake out if I agreed to get it? I'd still need to come up with the extra $$ but it'd be easier than the other seller.

Sorry for the long message - but, it might be interesting to evaluate sellers/ppl? :)

NEW 4080 Supers start at $1379 (if in stock) CAD ($1024 USD). Tax brings them up to $1500 ish. Vanilla 4080s are still expensive - $1600 and up. So, not even considering the new cards.

Any advice?: just keep waiting for gpus to go down (meaning wait a long, long, long time), pursue this 'cheaper' 4080 that's kinda far away but theoretically, I could get it in person - (4080 Tuf - sealed, supposedly purchased on ebay and couldn't return - bought 4090 - as reason for selling - typical behavior? :))
The other guy is in a different province and wants to charge me exorbitant shipping fees - well, it might be at normal shipping charges - as it's expensive to ship something like this - it's a Founders Edition - and supposedly he's sold 2 others. It's too expensive so I told him I'd think about it but if he has offers, good luck.
I could also pursue a 7900 XTX which might have more chances to find a cheaper gpu? However, the only seller I found wants $1200 CAD ($892 USD) - Sapphire Nitro - isn't that high?
Click to expand...
Only thing I can say is that getting the pricing you want just may not be obtainable. I was more or less trying to get at that earlier with doing pricing investigation.

I don't expect a huge amount of price shifting, I think it's more just going to be you getting comfortable with the stupid amount of money these cards are.

The other half is that if you're waiting longer, you're just trading time actually using the card (and its performance gains) with the incoming next cards. I definitely do not think there will be consumer Blackwell at the end of this year, it will likely not be until 1st quarter 2025.

Is waiting another month worth another $100? (if that was predictable). The point being if you value that card at being worth more than $3 a day, then you arrive at the same price in that case. Part of bringing this is up is because I thought that this was primarily about trying to get work done and not simply gaming. If it has a work purpose, just paying the extra money to have all your current workflows sped up is worth biting the bullet in most cases rather than dealing with the slower performance of whatever you're on now.

Getting the perfect deal is often an illusion. They happen pretty rarely.
 
IMHO, until there are things that more "force" the issue, many will opt to play "great games" that don't require $1K+ cards.

As "old people" die, the expectation changes. If you bought your first "ok-ish" card for $800 (have no memory of life being better than that), then moving to $1500 for a higher end option seems "ok". For those that remember "the good ole days" where the highest end was less than $800, your memories are starting to become irrelevant consumer wise. Sadly, can't go backwards in time.
 
cjcox said:
IMHO, until there are things that more "force" the issue, many will opt to play "great games" that don't require $1K+ cards.

As "old people" die, the expectation changes. If you bought your first "ok-ish" card for $800 (have no memory of life being better than that), then moving to $1500 for a higher end option seems "ok". For those that remember "the good ole days" where the highest end was less than $800, your memories are starting to become irrelevant consumer wise. Sadly, can't go backwards in time.
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I think it's basically just late stage capitalism mixed with the fact that nVidia dominates >80% of the market and can charge whatever they want due to their brand recognition.
But yes, the general assessment that until there is "competition" we're stuck where we are is absolutely correct. And the only way that happens is by attacking nVidia's money. Once there is about 35-40% of the GPU market buying AMD cards (or competitor cards, I just think it's unlikely that it will be anyone other than AMD at this point), nVidia will "have to" become price competitive again. And similarly there will be that back and forth where AMD will also have to respond.

Until then though, we are stuck with what we get. Either "don't play the game" or "buy the price we're given". Not many options for anywhere in the middle. Certainly though for work the economics are different. It still means it takes longer to get your ROI back, but if it's for work you still will eventually. Honestly the difference in price between $600 and $1000 may be insignificant. As it generally would only take a fraction of a single job to pay that price difference off.

People buying 4090s as a result for work really don't care. If it helps them get all their jobs done 30% faster, they're getting their ROI and paying them off likely after a week or two.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
People buying 4090s as a result for work really don't care. If it helps them get all their jobs done 30% faster, they're getting their ROI and paying them off likely after a week or two.
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Always true. I mean, we don't live in the "Quadro" age anymore, but certainly same arguments could have been made there. Now that a "4090" is (arguably) not even a "gamerz card", the idea of "value" and "cost" do change.
 
What brand of 4080s do you guys have? Should I consider ANY used 4080? Would you buy one without being able to test it? I read that Asus Tuf 4080s often have coil whine. That worries me.
My 3080 Tuf didn't afaik - it was very quiet - and it really impressed me. But, there seems to be quite a few coil whine complaints with the 4080 and 4090 - but, in particular, with the Asus brand - both Tuf and Strix?

Gigabyte 4080s - seem to have less complaints and I think it's a brand - model OC - that was often purchased - as it was one of the cheaper ones back when they were released. They do have a horrible rep for RMAs though. I see either FE, Zotac or Tuf - 4080s (used) and so, it's most likely going to be one of those I find - so far, I found a Tuf - but, the seller is pretty far from me - it's over a 2 hr drive - almost near the border. I don't want to drive there. I'd need a big incentive - like the seller sounds really good and then I'd want to see the card in action or at least get pics/screen shots of the seller testing it in Furmark or other graphics programs/benchmarks - right?
 
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