Proof? You call that "proof"? When one website shows an example of shimmering? I think not. I'll show you proof, and it's: www.hardocp.com .
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x800 filtering artifacts in motion (Far Cry)
- Thread starter tranCendenZ
- Start date
Proof? You call that "proof"? When one website shows an example of shimmering? I think not. I'll show you proof, and it's: www.hardocp.com .
tranCendenZ said:
Sorry.....thats not even close to being proof. You even spelled it out yourself... it's called "proposed theory".....heck, with that kind of '"proof" the Loch Ness Monster exist and he's sitting RIGHT now in Bali with the Easter Bunny and Santa discussing what vid card to buy with Bigfoot.
Really..I don't begrudge anyone pointing out possible errors or shady dealings or other.....thats what these forums are for.....but this is far from "proof."
Bad_Boy said:this memo.
never said a word to you since...
but i guess you like to have that last word.
But you didn't let it go. You were laughing at people taking things serious and you're the one wanting to change a review. Sorry. But that's ironic.
creedAMD said:
like i said i said nothing to you since lol. i dont see where you cant see that. and i didnt want to change the review, i think its a great review, as i said before, but the added disclaimer could have made it a little more fair IMO. but i guess you cant see that either.
creedAMD said:
I dont think it was necessary to take a stab at anandtechs. Both H and Anand seem to have a good relationship, no reason for you to make it seem like they are inferior. I understand that Hard is trying to get something going with their Apples to Oranges comparisions, but people need to understand why its being done, which will take some time but people will feel more comfortable with it as each video card review. You sit on your own hill here at H, dont go say the hill across from you isn't as good.
-K
Kako said:
Well I actually thought that it was obviously a subjective statement. I guess I should have put a disclaimer saying "IMHO" right?
I do believe that the [H] reviews are far superior than the other sites. And I don't think it is wrong to toot about it on the [H]forum. If I was to go tooting my horn on the anandtech forums I could see where you would think I was trolling or something. But sorry. My opinion stands. Andand and Tom serves burgers, the [H] serves steak.
MrHappyGoLucky
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2003
- Messages
- 340
I like this thread to a good saying: "Quit while you are still behind".
I do not see any of these "problems" while playing Far Cry on my X800 Pro other than I can run at a higher resolution, AA, and AF.
FUD is a wonderful thing.
I do not see any of these "problems" while playing Far Cry on my X800 Pro other than I can run at a higher resolution, AA, and AF.
FUD is a wonderful thing.
creedAMD said:
Congrats that you have your steak, and you think that H reviews are superior, but dont go speaking about other excellent review sites like anands in a negative way. I read up in other forums also, as do other readers of H, and a thing that bothers me quite a bit, is when forum contributers talk bad about other forums' readers. Really disgusting if you ask me, and what you are doing, is just promoting hate between groups.
Kako said:Congrats that you have your steak, and you think that H reviews are superior, but dont go speaking about other excellent review sites like anands in a negative way. I read up in other forums also, as do other readers of H, and a thing that bothers me quite a bit, is when forum contributers talk bad about other forums' readers. Really disgusting if you ask me, and what you are doing, is just promoting hate between groups.
Hate? We are a bunch of computer nerds, no one is going to do a driveby or anything like that. If someone takes it that far as to hate another "website". Then they deserve whatever comes to them. You act as if it's going to start a gang war or something. It's ok man, people have bashed website's methods of benchmarking a whole lot worse and the intarweb is still kicking.
tranCendenZ
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2004
- Messages
- 3,844
Here is an updated guide if you want to see whether the ATI X800 Brilinear filtering shimmer bothers you, and instructions on how to disable the optimization if it does.
FarCry Savegame:
http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/r420/FC_ShimmerSave.zip
"Instructions:
Unpack the zip file into your FarCry installation. It uses its own Profile, so your other save games should be save. Anyway, it's a good idea to create a backup you Profile directory first.
Start the game. From the main menu, chose "Profile" and select the profile "ShimmerCheck".
Then select "Campaign" and load the only save game present in that profile.
Turn on your flashlight, look at the left wall (also visible on the right wall), and move forward and backwards."
***
Following these steps you should be able to see the filtering artifact created by the X800PRO's optimized brilinear filter on the left wall demonstrated in this movie:
http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/r420/FarCryx800ProHiRes_Divx.avi
And again for reference so you know how its supposed to look, here is the difference using proper full trilinear filtering on the 9700PRO:
http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/r420/FarCry9700ProHiRes_Divx.avi
***
Note this artifact occurs on all versions of the X800 drivers, including the CAT 4.6 drivers. The only way to get rid of it is to edit your registry, but doing so will lose you 10-30% in performance during games. (In the graph, the red bar is the X800XT PE driver default when turned to max settings, the "application" bar is is you have Application set via the control panel to disable texture stage optimizations, and the green bar is the performance when optimizations are disabled and full trilinear is enabled via the registry.)
The registry keys to enable full trilinear filtering (again, be warned you will lose significant performance if you do this) are:
"RV350TRPER" 1
"RV350ANTHRESH" 1
"R420AnisoLOD" 2
You need the latest available CAT drivers for these registry entires to work.
IMO it is worth it to do this though, as the X800 is already plenty fast and there really is no reason to be using an IQ-degrading filter at this point. When games start to get choppy, that would be a good time to re-enable ATI's optimized brilinear filter.
Anyway, enjoy.
* Thanks to Grestorn of B3D for putting together the videos, and making the instructions and savegames.
FarCry Savegame:
http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/r420/FC_ShimmerSave.zip
"Instructions:
Unpack the zip file into your FarCry installation. It uses its own Profile, so your other save games should be save. Anyway, it's a good idea to create a backup you Profile directory first.
Start the game. From the main menu, chose "Profile" and select the profile "ShimmerCheck".
Then select "Campaign" and load the only save game present in that profile.
Turn on your flashlight, look at the left wall (also visible on the right wall), and move forward and backwards."
***
Following these steps you should be able to see the filtering artifact created by the X800PRO's optimized brilinear filter on the left wall demonstrated in this movie:
http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/r420/FarCryx800ProHiRes_Divx.avi
And again for reference so you know how its supposed to look, here is the difference using proper full trilinear filtering on the 9700PRO:
http://www.reflectonreality.com/images/r420/FarCry9700ProHiRes_Divx.avi
***
Note this artifact occurs on all versions of the X800 drivers, including the CAT 4.6 drivers. The only way to get rid of it is to edit your registry, but doing so will lose you 10-30% in performance during games. (In the graph, the red bar is the X800XT PE driver default when turned to max settings, the "application" bar is is you have Application set via the control panel to disable texture stage optimizations, and the green bar is the performance when optimizations are disabled and full trilinear is enabled via the registry.)
The registry keys to enable full trilinear filtering (again, be warned you will lose significant performance if you do this) are:
"RV350TRPER" 1
"RV350ANTHRESH" 1
"R420AnisoLOD" 2
You need the latest available CAT drivers for these registry entires to work.
IMO it is worth it to do this though, as the X800 is already plenty fast and there really is no reason to be using an IQ-degrading filter at this point. When games start to get choppy, that would be a good time to re-enable ATI's optimized brilinear filter.
Anyway, enjoy.
* Thanks to Grestorn of B3D for putting together the videos, and making the instructions and savegames.
tranCendenZ said:
Why not just keep the gamma at normal? Also, wasn't it also thought that the higher FPS could be the cause of a little more shimmering than the 9700pro? I'm going to wait until there are more investigations from review sites instead of someone on a forum.
tranCendenZ
2[H]4U
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- Jun 6, 2004
- Messages
- 3,844
creedAMD said:
Actually the slower you move the more evident the shimmer is according to those who have tried the above savegame out. X800 owners can actually test this for themselves with the above savegame and instructions (which do not say anything about altering gamma btw - the flashlight is a gameplay feature of FarCry to see down dark halls). That was the point of providing it, so you can see for yourself if it bothers you, and disable it if it does.
This is a case where the user can decide for themselves if the optimization bothers them or not with a simple test.
tranCendenZ said:
From the guy who made the video:
Grestorn- "And I've repeatedly written that these artifacts are not common at all but very rare."
Come on Tran, you can't keep spreading this fud around, this is one spot that people (even the maker of the video) say is very rare. It has been said it could be numorous reasons why this is. Please stop until hardcore facts are out. Why would someone want to lose 30% of it's performance for a tiny glitch that can be taken care of with gamma or a game patch? Your persistance to shove this down peoples throat is getting old. Wait until more evidence comes out, (if it does)
Hmm.... After watching the videos, I can see the difference but I guess i'm just so used to bilinear on my ti4200 that I could live with either one. Whenever there are some benches of the gt vs the pro w/ non beta drivers and I can actually buy both of them then I'll make my decision on which card I'm going to buy. Who knows, maybe i'll even wait for doom3 or hl2 to come out.