Why It's OK To 'Steal' Wi-Fi

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Using an open WiFi connection…is it stealing? This guy says “no”. The argument he is using is the age old “hey, the door was open” so it is OK. So, let me ask you…when is it OK to use an unsecured WiFi connection?

When you open up your trusty laptop, check for available networks, choose one and click "Connect," you're instructing your computer hardware and software to communicate with the hardware and software that's providing the Wi-Fi network and ask permission to use the network. When you do this, a router either grants permission, and assigns an IP address for you to use, or denies permission.
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It's more like "Hey, the door was open and the owner was standing there sayd 'Hi there, come in and make yourself at home.'" Honestly, if you can't take the time to learn how to secure a wireless network, then don't bitch when it gets used by someone else.
 
I say its fine to use it for a little web browsing, nothing physical is being taken, it doesn't cost them anything and it is relatively harmless

The problem comes in when the open wifi gets abused and files are tampered with, network hardware is damaged or reconfigured and any other malicious activity is carried out.

If people could just play nice and use it for casual web browsing the world would be a better place ;)

ps. I have not payed for broadband in my apartment complex for the past 5 months (gotta love open AP's)
 
So if you are visiting someones house and they set $100 on the table then leave the room, its okay to take the money? They didn't lock it up or hide it so it must be fair game.

Same thing with those little coin things for charity in the front of some stores. If you can get away with it with nobody seeing you it must be okay to steal the money.

IMO using someone else's wireless without permission is stealing.
 
I think it's okay when I'm hacking or using someones stolen CC to order new computer parts.:eek:


J/K

It's actually not okay, but it's like the the door to your car or house. If you leave it open long enough, someone that doesn't have what you do,
will get it from you with out thinking twice about it and you made it easy since you didn't protect yourself properly.


There will always be people that exploit weakness no matter how many good people you meet. Expecting people to do the right thing is a weakness.
 
ryan_975 said:
It's more like "Hey, the door was open and the owner was standing there sayd 'Hi there, come in and make yourself at home.'" Honestly, if you can't take the time to learn how to secure a wireless network, then don't bitch when it gets used by someone else.
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This logic can be applied for everything. If you didn't take the time to bolt your safe down, then you don't deserve it... if you didn't take the time to check if your tires are pumped then you should pay for the accident.... if you didn't lock your car securley then you shouldn't bitch when someone steals it....


See where I'm going at it? It may not be hard for you to secure something, but it may be hard for others. If you don't know about it, then you can't secure it. Most users are not competent in computers, so they will be unaware of TKIP, AES, etc.
 
Willingly using bandwidth from an private unsecured WiFi connection isn't right. Using publicly available WiFi hotspots is okay though.

The problem is: is any unsecured connection considered public? Someone accused of stealing the connection could try making that argument. After all, the access point's owner might have intended it to be used as a free wireless hotspot!
 
Oh hey look, I found a wallet... oh well must be their loss. Credit cards, well since they didn't secure it, lets go shopping!
 
It's like the coin jar. Pennies for everyone. It doesn't hurt anyone if you take a little bit.
 
any unsecured access point without any sort of filtering/captive portal is a free hot-spot as far as im concerned...

several places i go eat/hang out have open AP's for people to use... a lot of the time they dont bother changing the SSIDs even (great diner here in miami has an open AP called netgear, and they actually have a little sign that sais "free internet, just connect to netgear"

i ended up asking the owner why he left it as netgear and he looked confused and said "you can change that?!?" lol

also everyone with the $100 bill/wallet/safe analogies dont work, becuase the owner of the AP is not losing anything
 
well i guess if my neighbour leaves the door unlocked its ok to rob him blind right?
 
The other day I saw a car with the door open so I figured I would just use it to run some errands instead of taking the bus. After I was done I put some gas in it and left it back where I found it. I figured no harm done.
 
Ockie said:
This logic can be applied for everything. If you didn't take the time to bolt your safe down, then you don't deserve it... if you didn't take the time to check if your tires are pumped then you should pay for the accident.... if you didn't lock your car securley then you shouldn't bitch when someone steals it....


See where I'm going at it? It may not be hard for you to secure something, but it may be hard for others. If you don't know about it, then you can't secure it. Most users are not competent in computers, so they will be unaware of TKIP, AES, etc.
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No, it's not the same at all. I don't broadcast my car or my safe to the neighborhood. Those are physical items that once taken, the owner has no ability to use until he gets them back.

WiFi is completely different. Just because Joe-blow next door to me is browsing the web on my dime, that doesn't mean I can't use my internet. He's not taking anything, Hell, he may not even know where the signal is coming from. It's no differnt than radio or TV signals.

And ignorance is no excuse. If you're not competent at computer, then get someone who is to make sure it's set up right.
 
SockMan! said:
Willingly using bandwidth from an private unsecured WiFi connection isn't right. Using publicly available WiFi hotspots is okay though.
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You're right.

People pay money for a service so that they can use it. When you get a free-loader who connects to your wi-fi signal (without you knowing), that's stealing - you can spin it however you want but it is a clear cut definition of stealing.

I don't see how people can look at wi-fi from home users as a public road - if it's there, then I can use it. Talk about not having any ethics.
 
I agree with those that say it is not ok. Just because the door is open doesn't mean that you can go into a house. Next time you need to go to the bathroom, try going into some random house and use their bathroom. See what happens.

As people have said, many people don't know any better and thus they don't lock down their stuff correct. Sure it opens them up to being victimized by people using their access, but it doesn't mean that it is correct.
 
I think the better analogy would be if he leaves his TV on and his window open. Is it wrong to watch the TV through the window? Last time I checked that wasn't illegal. Is it "not socially acceptable" and a little creepy? Yeah.
 
I'd consider it "rude" kind of like the friendly neighbor that constantly comes over and borrows things without permission.
 
ryan_975 said:
No, it's not the same at all. I don't broadcast my car or my safe to the neighborhood. .
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That's the difference. Does leaving your door unlocked mean your neighbors are right to come in and take things? Nope. But if you pick up your valuables, and throw them through your neighbor's wall or windows; when he finds them inside his house is he wrong to use them? (Hey, if people want to do analogies comparing physical objects and airwaves there you go. If you say physical is completely different from airwaves and shouldn't be compared - again, there is your answer.) If you go in someone's house and use their Wi-Fi yes, it's stealing. If they put something in YOUR home without permission, with no signs of "I don't want you touching that", I don't see a moral problem with you using it.
 
My wifi is secured, but I gave all my neighbors the key in case they needed to get on. As long as they're not stealing my bandwidth I'm okay with it.

But still, you cant forget when we had people driving around neighborhoods looking for un encrypted wifi, to use maliciously.

Its not that hard to protect. Also, computer illiterate people are also the people that will put the Router's CD into their computer to configure it. The CD tells you to password protect it!
 
Exavior said:
I agree with those that say it is not ok. Just because the door is open doesn't mean that you can go into a house. Next time you need to go to the bathroom, try going into some random house and use their bathroom. See what happens.

As people have said, many people don't know any better and thus they don't lock down their stuff correct. Sure it opens them up to being victimized by people using their access, but it doesn't mean that it is correct.
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The physical use analogies don't fit. You're NOT taking anything away from someone. You're not invading someone's property. They are spreading the signal out to you. If it's not encrypted, then why is it bad to use it?


I can understand if you take someone's connection and flood it with spam, or torrent all day everyday with it, that would actually be taking something away (their use of the router/ap). But simple web browsing, email, and IM isn't doing that. Hell even light gaming probably wouldn't hurt the connection.
 
When a cashier gives you more change than your suppose to get and you knowingly take it, I believe that is a crime. (not sure)

I think the same concept can be applied to open wi-fi APs or anything else.
 
Ah trailor park boys, that show has a quote for everything. This is about satellite signals, but its still applicable.

Ricky: Stealing? You guys are beaming a singnal into this fuckin trailer park without my permission, not me, so i got these little things that pick up the signal from space, how the fuck is that stealing? What, do you own space? No, Naysaw does.
 
ryan_975 said:
The physical use analogies don't fit. You're NOT taking anything away from someone. You're not invading someone's property. They are spreading the signal out to you. If it's not encrypted, then why is it bad to use it?


I can understand if you take someone's connection and flood it with spam, or torrent all day everyday with it, that would actually be taking something away (their use of the router/ap). But simple web browsing, email, and IM isn't doing that. Hell even light gaming probably wouldn't hurt the connection.
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It's still consider stealing. You don't pay for it and it isn't designed to be used as a wi-fi hub. The victim pays to have access to the Internet for themselves and throughout their home - if their neighbor connects to their wi-fi connection and uses it freely without telling/asking that person, that's stealing.

Sure it's a white collar crime and a matter of ethics but taking and using something that isn't yours without asking/telling the provider/owner is stealing.
 
wait till the quota system goes into place... people are going to get bent over, reamed hard... by monopolistic capitalist pigs. enjoy the raping!
 
Gott said:
It's still consider stealing. You don't pay for it and it isn't designed to be used as a wi-fi hub. The victim pays to have access to the Internet for themselves and throughout their home - if their neighbor connects to their wi-fi connection and uses it freely without telling/asking that person, that's stealing.

Sure it's a white collar crime and a matter of ethics but taking and using something that isn't yours without asking/telling the provider/owner is stealing.
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Actually, using an unsecured network isn't a crime. What you do on it may be, but the actual use isn't. And again, most of the time, you may not know where the signal is coming from. I've got four open wireless access point around my house right now and I can't tell you which of the 10 houses immediately around me they're coming from.

Not designed as a wifi hub? do you even think before you say things? What else is it designed for? Point-to-point devices (such as headsets, car remotes, etc) usually have pre-configured authentication routines built in to prevent unauthorize access. Wireles router/AP's are designed to allow multiple connections. Unless you lock it down yourself, then it's open for business as designed.
 
I can agree with those that call the use of unprotected wifi stealing. I do have to complain about all the analogies regarding the steal of physical goods though.

On the other hand, technology is pretty easy to use these days. The product manufactures provide more than enough in terms of documentation and tools to make setup easy.

With that in mind, I would say that in the court of law any judge would be right to through out cases related to the stealing of wifi. I say this because we need to put a stop to consumer ignorance. "I didn't know how." is not an excuse.

I long for the day when it is no longer social acceptable to purchase devices or anything of value and not know anything about it or how to properly use it.
 
ryan_975 said:
And ignorance is no excuse. If you're not competent at computer, then get someone who is to make sure it's set up right.
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Yeah, the law shouldn't be used to try to compensate for people's incompetence and an unsecured hotspot is not a public hazard. It's the owner's responsibility to secure it (or get someone to secure it).

I suppose context matters. A passerby who's connection defaults to an unsecured connection shouldn't be accused of stealing. On the other hand I can understand how someone could be charged with theft if the person is driving around a residential neighborhood with a big cantenna on the roof who willingly and knowingly is looking for unsecured and supposed-to-be-private access points.

The problem, as always, comes from the middle ground: aka the people looking for a free wifi hotspot. If it's unsecured, how could these people know that it's supposed to be private? Many people will might assume it's just another of a growing number of free wireless hotspots.
 
I have to say, so long as you don't invade their privacy (man in middle attacks, lootin' and pludnerin' their network shares, etc...), and just use light web usage, its fine. They pay the same amount whether or not you use it, and so long as you don't interfere with their usage, whats the problem? Its broadcasted out, it isn't like entering a house with an open door at all.

The closest similarity I can think of would be if someone had a light on their back porch that also lit up your back porch (although its dim). Are you "stealing" their light? Of course not, its a ridiculous notion. I'd say the same applies to wifi - so long as it stays "dim" (minimal usage).
 
Ockie said:
This logic can be applied for everything. If you didn't take the time to bolt your safe down, then you don't deserve it... if you didn't take the time to check if your tires are pumped then you should pay for the accident.... if you didn't lock your car securley then you shouldn't bitch when someone steals it....
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But my safe doesn't actively hand out DHCP leases, for example. It also doesn't broadcast that it's available for anyone to connect to in unencrypted mode.
Ockie said:
See where I'm going at it? It may not be hard for you to secure something, but it may be hard for others. If you don't know about it, then you can't secure it. Most users are not competent in computers, so they will be unaware of TKIP, AES, etc.
Click to expand...
I pay someone to take care of my car because I'm not competent to take care of it myself. Why would computers be any different in that regard? If I took care of my own car and did a poor job, I might do a crappy job with the brakes and kill someone or forget to fix the locks and get it stolen. If users are careless with their computers, they can get their information copied or leave their access points open.

FWIW, I run an unencrypted wireless access point. It's isolated from the rest of my network and I have plenty of bandwidth to go around, so have a field day.
 
The reason its illegal is because its cost the isp money. You could be sharing an open network, even though thats what the technology was designed to do. But by making illegal and making everyone paranoid they can make sure you and your neighbor pay the $50 bucks a month for high speed internet like good little sheep; even though you don't use that much bandwidth.

A lemonade stand would rather sell two people a lemonade and have both of them throw out half of the lemonade as waste, than sell half lemonade for half the cost and produce no waste. I think they call this economics or greed, something like that.
 
kllrnohj said:
The closest similarity I can think of would be if someone had a light on their back porch that also lit up your back porch (although its dim). Are you "stealing" their light? Of course not, its a ridiculous notion. I'd say the same applies to wifi - so long as it stays "dim" (minimal usage).
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But you aren't taking away light from them. By using some one's Wifi you are taking away bandwidth that they can use. (Ignoring the fact that they aren't using 100% of their bandwidth 100% of the time)
 
ferrisnox said:
The reason its illegal is because its cost the isp money. You could be sharing an open network, even though thats what the technology was designed to do. But by making illegal and making everyone paranoid they can make sure you and your neighbor pay the $50 bucks a month for high speed internet like good little sheep; even though you don't use that much bandwidth.

A lemonade stand would rather sell two people a lemonade and have both of them throw out half of the lemonade as waste, than sell half lemonade for half the cost and produce no waste. I think they call this economics or greed, something like that.
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How is it costing the ISP any money? Wireless networks don't magically give you double the bandwidth you paid for just because two people use it at once. It's also not illegal. It may be against the terms of use for the ISP, but that rests on the shoulders of the subscriber.
 
DanniBoy said:
When a cashier gives you more change than your suppose to get and you knowingly take it, I believe that is a crime. (not sure)

I think the same concept can be applied to open wi-fi APs or anything else.
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No that isnt a crime. Its one persons loss and anothers gain, although an immoral one if the receiving person new about it before pocketing the money and finding out about it later.
 
If a WiFi signal travels onto my property that is open, then it's fair use to access it. The violation of the signal trespassed onto the property first. It's no difference than any AM or FM signal that can be received .

This whole bit about walking into a neighbors home is useless. Look at what WiFi actually is. It's radio waves that can be accessed.

If the WiFi radio waves reach your property in an open access connection, then it's FREE use. Totally different if you walked onto their property to get a connection. It's not somebodies toilet in their home for crying out loud. Get real people.
 
bmaverick said:
If a WiFi signal travels onto my property that is open, then it's fair use to access it. The violation of the signal trespassed onto the property first. It's no difference than any AM or FM signal that can be received .

This whole bit about walking into a neighbors home is useless. Look at what WiFi actually is. It's radio waves that can be accessed.

If the WiFi radio waves reach your property in an open access connection, then it's FREE use. Totally different if you walked onto their property to get a connection. It's not somebodies toilet in their home for crying out loud. Get real people.
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Next time a space object falls in your yard, try and keep it, I dare you :p
 
bmaverick said:
If a WiFi signal travels onto my property that is open, then it's fair use to access it. The violation of the signal trespassed onto the property first. It's no difference than any AM or FM signal that can be received .

This whole bit about walking into a neighbors home is useless. Look at what WiFi actually is. It's radio waves that can be accessed.

If the WiFi radio waves reach your property in an open access connection, then it's FREE use. Totally different if you walked onto their property to get a connection. It's not somebodies toilet in their home for crying out loud. Get real people.
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Yeah, we better stop breathing when there's a breeze because the air might have come from someone else's property. I'd hate to have someone else's air in my lungs.
 
I have no issue using unsecured hotspots for a quick check of something online. I think it is wrong to try and hack said networks though or hack into secured networks.

Most cases the people have huge internet pipes anyways that get used to check email and news :p They wont notice me checking my email or news for 30seconds.
 
I'd have to agree with point 1 from the article. When you hit connect, your computer asks for permission from their router, then their router actively grants it. For those who love their physical analogies, this would be like hiring a security guard who by default lets anyone in unless you tell him otherwise. If I were to go up to the guard and ask "Can I go in?" and he says "Yes." Then I have just asked for and recieved permission, just as your computer does when you connect to any WiFi network.
 
bmaverick said:
If a WiFi signal travels onto my property that is open, then it's fair use to access it. The violation of the signal trespassed onto the property first.
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So if it's open it's ok, but if it is protected and you try and hack into it on your property it's not ok? So if I stuck a locked safe on your property you would respect it and not try to take it or open it?

bmaverick said:
It's no difference than any AM or FM signal that can be received .
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AM and FM are deemed free for public use. Try to get Satellite radio for free.
 
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