what would u do?

[gamekid]

well, heres my situation.

im 15, and in the 10'th grade. half of the year is almost over. i will be planning on finishing high school (goes up to 12th grade) and then going to college. I want to build a gaming machine that will last till then, then i will sell it and buy a labtop. i would just upgrade but i dont want to have it get in the way of my studies.

My problem is the whole agp vs pci-e. Because i think (hope) a 3500+ overclocked will last that long, and i will get more RAM if i need too. I am worried about the video card. the computer will be mainly used for gaming and if i go agp, i *might* get an 6800 ultra but probably a GT and i know a video card wont last 2 1/2 years and i want to know if the next gen video cards will be available in agp. if they are i think i will be fine. or i will have to buy a new mobo when i get a video card but i dont want to take the chance of ddr2 coming out for amd or my cpu not being compatible, etc...

if i go pci-e, i am gonna get a SLI board for $200 when the price comes down and get one pci-e 6800GT and another one in about a year or so and am hopeing this will last till college. or if the whole SLI thing doesnt live up to its promise, i will just get a next gen card and leave the extra slot empty.

also, i will be getting a 19 crt monitor and dont want to play games at ultra low resolutions.

 

[MaMMa]

ima stick with agp till pci-e matures more

 

[Elledan]

2005 will be the year in which AGP begins to die a slow and agonizing death.

Considering how reluctant manufacturers like ATI already are to release AGP cards in this current generation of videocards, I don't think that the situation will be any better in two and half years.

You're asking for a future-proof system. AGP is a dead-end technology, which will be phased out in the next couple of years. PCIe is the name of its replacement, and it's being pushed very, very hard by some very big companies, including the OEMs.

Go with PCIe.

 

[gamekid]

^^^^^^^^^^^thats what i was thinkin

 

[gamekid]

i need some more voters people.....after all, 54 people viewed the thread but only 13 voted!!!............ this is too close, i would like at least 100 people to vote

 

[Captin Insano]

Even though card avalibility is low right now and in Q1 of 05 we will see more motherboards with PCI-e on them, Especially the SLI variaty. I would vote to wait a month or 2 if you can and do PCI-e with SLI and a godd PCI-e vid card capable of SLI with an upgrade later to the 2nd card.

 

[Dan_D]

Right now I'd go with PCI-E. Build your A64 rig as normal, but get a A8N-SLi. That way down the road you can get a second 6800GT and that should be able to sustain your gaming habbit for a VERY long time.

AGP is a dead end technology. We can already see that with ATi's reluctance to make a AGP version of the X700 series. They've also made the X850XT-PE a PCI-E part only. Nvidia's pushing SLi hard which requires PCI-E. Intel doesn't make AGP chipsets anymore. At least they won't be making new ones.

The only problem with buying into new technologies and standards is the cost is a little higher at first. Sometimes they don't have out of the box advantages vs. the older technologies. But given time they improve. Drivers improvements come out, and plus when newer cards come out you can use them in your PCI-E rig.

You can't go wrong with a A8N-SLi and a A64. Get a 6800GT PCI-E and your set for awhile.

 

[Chris626]

pci-e

 

[LadyJaqie]

Jeez.

think about the games you run and will run.

think about the bandwidth that agp8x runs.

they sell PCI vidcards still for crap's sake! I mean, come on!

Floppy drives are still around, CDROM drives are aplenty, people still use dialup everyday, I mean we live in the world of compatibility.

if you look deep into your system, the ISA bus is still THERE, just hidden inside the southbridge. it runs the PS2 mouse and KB ports, and serial and paralell ports. if a mobo maker wanted to they could slap an isa port on their board.

Above all think of this: are you going to purchase a top of the line video card *AGAIN* before you get that laptop? no? then it doesnt mater if it uses yoohoo-boohoo-bus, now does it? as long as it works till then. jeez people. think about the USE not the tech. this is a rut I see far far too many techies get into nowadays. And gamekid, what does it matter what others think? its YOUR money YOUR cchoice. weigh the options yourself. sure ask others their opinions for input but dont rely on it.

 

[bobsaget]

my next motherboard will be PCI-e and a 6800GT PCI-e. I'm thinking late spring.

 

[Moto Guzzi]

I am also waiting & waiting, but mainly for the following reasons.

Ok PCI MB & grafics card next...I will wait.

Then the 64bit thing ?

Then which Intel Processor ?

Then improved Memory techniques ?

How long do I have to wait till these major changes will have settled ??

What else is there to wai for ???

 

[LadyJaqie]

exactly my point.

just get a really good box now. AGP8x. dual channel DDR, socket A 400 FSB barton. radeon 9800 pro or higher. your gaming and other performance will be I guarantee it. and the money you will save over not going with the X800xt PE, athlon 64 939 kukamunga whatever, dual quad neo X64 mobo with 64 Jigawatts of power, you can save to upgrade again with the 'old' tech earlier then you could have otherwise.

 

[LadyJaqie]

here, let me prove even more...

2 years ago I went with older tech. 333 FSB socket A was older, so was 4x AGP. 8x and 400 was cutting edge. the ath64 had JUST come out but was stupid high if I remember right, and P4 was just... I dont like intel and price was even worse then.

my point - I got a 333 fsb board that only did 4x agp, barton 2500+, stuck a couple pc 2700+ 512MBers in my box (more ram is better thats one thing you never skimp on), an ATI radeon 9800 pro (top o the line back then). Now, 2 years later, the 9800 pro is still one of the high dogs for gaming. still worth quite a helluva lot in resale, and wtill runs some REAL nice numbers in games even without an overclock. same for the rest of my box. not even top of the line, and 2 years old. didnt spend too much on the box either. and now I can afford to upgrade mobo, proc, and ram all in one shot because I didnt blow it all on top of the line.
the one top of the line part I did get never did work rright. its bad, I finally got to RMA ing it, and they sent me a defective one the day after christmas. bah humbug.

Stay below top of the line, keep your product cycle time short, you will be happier in the end.

 

[Elledan]

Jeez.

think about the games you run and will run.

Having more upgrade uptions can't be a bad thing, can it?

think about the bandwidth that agp8x runs.

Think about how AGP has at least twice the latency of PCIe, can't access the mainboard's RAM directly, can't supply sufficient power to the latest generation of videocards and will suffer from a lack of good cards in the future.

they sell PCI vidcards still for crap's sake! I mean, come on!

Believe it or not, but there are still (mostly OEM) systems out there without an AGP slot. On top of that, all systems produced around and after 1995 have PCI slots. PCI hasn't been replaced yet, and won't for the next five years at least.

PCI videocards are also used for multi-display setups.

Floppy drives are still around, CDROM drives are aplenty, people still use dialup everyday, I mean we live in the world of compatibility.

FDDs are still around because there's no suitable replacement yet. Optical drives are here to stay for a very long time and people out in the middle of Nowhere, Oblivion, or for those who don't use internet that much.

if you look deep into your system, the ISA bus is still THERE, just hidden inside the southbridge. it runs the PS2 mouse and KB ports, and serial and paralell ports. if a mobo maker wanted to they could slap an isa port on their board.

What's wrong with the ISA bus? Aside from that it's well over 15 years old, that is.

Above all think of this: are you going to purchase a top of the line video card *AGAIN* before you get that laptop? no? then it doesnt mater if it uses yoohoo-boohoo-bus, now does it? as long as it works till then.

The Celeron 400 system I used back in 1999 still works. Shouldn't I still be using it?

jeez people. think about the USE not the tech.

You choose the tech which allows you to use it for what you want to do with it for as long as you want to.

this is a rut I see far far too many techies get into nowadays. And gamekid, what does it matter what others think? its YOUR money YOUR cchoice. weigh the options yourself. sure ask others their opinions for input but dont rely on it.

What's wrong with asking the opinions of others? You're making it sound like he is depending on the outcome of the poll to make the decision instead of doing so himself.

Anyway, the topic of this thread was which technology to choose for a future-proof, gaming system. What do you imagine that games two and half years from now will look like? Don't you think that it's realistic to assume that games by then will, like Doom 3, make use of many advanced techniques in DirectX/OpenGL, which will require a somewhat new (not a 2.5 year old) videocard? What do you think the upgrade options will be in the future of a socket 939, PCIe system vs a socket 462, AGP system? Heck, you won't be able to get Athlon XP CPUs a year from now, only Sempron.

If you look at AMD's roadmap, you can see that socket 462 will be the territory of (budget) Sempron CPUs. If you buy an Athlon XP system now, and it dies a year from now (notice the overclocking part in the OP's post), you won't easily find a suitable replacement. Mainboards will also be budget, and not performance, because socket 462 will be no longer about performance.

Then, the OP mentioned selling the system 2.5 years from and buying a laptop. Instead of investing in a dead-end platform, it would make for more sense to invest in socket 939, and PCIe, as these will still be in use by that time, while socket 462 will be dead, and AGP the territory of budget videocards (if any).

Socket 939 with PCIe offers the best upgrade options and the best resale value, even years from now.

 

[LadyJaqie]

oh holy hell
I am too tired. I shoulda went to bed. I was basing my whole analysis and post on a system for one and a half years, not two and a half.

sorry.

I really do disagree with the whole dead thing... im using a P3 1Ghz for a server, and its plenty potent... its even good for a game server. how old is that box?

 

[LadyJaqie]

who says you won't be able to get athXP cpu's a year from now? the egg still sells Tbirds brand new, and when that's no longer an option, there's always the compgeeks.

 

[Elledan]

who says you won't be able to get athXP cpu's a year from now? the egg still sells Tbirds brand new, and when that's no longer an option, there's always the compgeeks.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-156&depa=1

It's a Tbird, alright. Naturally, it's OEM and not retail, which at least indicates that it's mainly being sold as replacement/upgrade.

Anyway, I said the following: "If you buy an Athlon XP system now, and it dies a year from now [..], you won't easily find a suitable replacement.", not that you can not get your hands on an Athlon XP CPU by then, just that it'll be more dificult than right now (only larger places will carry it).

 

[Elledan]

oh holy hell
I am too tired. I shoulda went to bed. I was basing my whole analysis and post on a system for one and a half years, not two and a half.

sorry.

Like I said in the PM, go get some sleep

I really do disagree with the whole dead thing... im using a P3 1Ghz for a server, and its plenty potent... its even good for a game server. how old is that box?

Dead-end, not dead. Big difference. I'm using a PII (333) and a Duron (600) system for testing applications I'm developing, for example. These systems become harder and harder to find parts for when I want to replace or upgrade something, yet they're still very useful to me.

All I'm saying is that you won't find it that pleasant to use it for a Doom 3/HL 2 gaming box, even when paired with the best (AGP) videocard out right now, when compared to an Athlon 64 3500+, 1 GB PC3200, with the best PCIe videocard. Let's be honest, if you only care about gaming, and you've got the money, you'll get the latter, right?

 

[gamekid]

ok, u can still use old technology to date and it is still out there to buy and such. but nothing new is coming out for it. i am pretty much convinced to go pci-e now. because, yes, i will be able to get a agp card in, lets say 1-1.5 years(when i will most likely upgrade) but im not going to be able to get anything better then whats out today..........and it boiled down to if i went agp and wanted a new card, i would also have to buy a new motherboard, but who knows whats gonna happen then.

and an example of old technology used today is my current rig....don't laugh lol......... its an old ass hp pavilion i got in 98 or 97 (i thought 97 by then i realized i had windows 98 on it so...must be 98) thats like 7 years old! and it wasnt all that good of a computer at the time either (considering i was like 8 years old and my parents just went to the store and bought one). all i know about it is that it had a amd-k6-2/333(does this mean its 333mhz or 666mhz?(no i am not the devil, lol)) processor with only 64 mb of ram, onboard sound and video. it still works flawlessly from the day i got it with no upgrades. sure it is slow and what not but to tell u the truth i think its fine, all i do is surf the net though and sometimes i have problems with a few sites but thats it.......but i never used to use it untill we got comcast high-speed cable (it was like a dream come true lol)

a new computer (whatever parts it has) will be a big improvement but i still want a really kick-ass system.(considering i have the money and since we havent gotten a new computer in a long-ass time, my dad went by the excuss that "it still works, u dont need another one") my parents are throwing in $1,000 and with my money that i saved up, i have a little more then $2,000 so its all about waiting for the mobo to come out (i do not like the asus sli coming out, herd too many problems and such and plus it overclocks like shit) and $2,000 is a good investment if its gonna last 2.5 years(give maybe $400 for upgrades)

 

[Elledan]

With such an old system even this 1700+ AXP system I'm using right now would blow your socks off

Since you'd have to buy pretty much everything new, regardless of whether you go for AGP or PCIe, socket 939 and PCIe is definitely the best investment (and the best system ).

 

[ikellensbro]

Hey, I was in a similar situation to you, not in agp/pci-e, but in close to top of the line/more value hardware choices. I'm 15 too, and I ended up getting a socket 754 3000+ & K8V SE Deluxe (back in the summer though, so 939 wasn't really too much of an option)($300), a gig of Patriot 2-3-2-5 memory ($180, got 3 days ago ), BFG 6800OC ($250, got 2 days ago )(got 16x1 & 6x1, but won't let me OC any ), Fortron Blue Storm 500 watt psu ($85), got a 120 gig Maxtor for Xmas, and I stayed with stock heatsink & cd-dvd drive, sound card, & 40 gig I already had.

I could have easily gone for a gt/ultra, a gig of Corsair XMS 2-2-2-5, an Antec Neopower psu, etc., but in the end, I decided to save some of my money (about $300 copared to other options I was considering) & get a rig that's still high end, but not top of the line. I don't know if I'll upgrade again until college when I'll probably get a laptop (in 9th grad right now), but I think that since it sounds like you want to upgrade again a 1 1/2 or 2 years from now, you have to think if the next greatest video cards will still come out on agp. Since you have $2,000 possibly to spend, it sounds like you have enough money to go for pci-e.

Your plan to get a 3500+ OC'd, A8N SLI, a gig of dual channel memory, 6800gt pci-e, etc. right now seems pretty good. Then, when you have some more money & prices go down, you can get another 6800gt & maybe some more memory later on for another speed boost.

Basically, it looks like agp is going to go the way of the dodo, being shoved out by pci-e. In 2 or 3 years, I doubt any new agp cards will still be made, so agp will have little resale value when you want to get a laptop. Pci-e, on the other hand, is the way of the future, and will be what agp did to pci cards, and that system will still have plenty of its original value when you sell that for a laptop for college.

 

[LadyJaqie]

Well, I still haven't slept, but going on the figures that I still know ($2k budget, 2.5 years lifespan, et al...)

I would now vote for PCI-E card... and if I was you I would spring for a 939 board that supports those SLI cards along with a PSU that will give those power hungry cards what they need.

A good option, but its too plain for most of the young 'uns, (im 27 I feel old here nowadays) is the enlight EN7237 with a 300W supply, and then gnab the enlight 420W supply from the egg to boot. the enlight supplies are actually right up there with sparkle and such. I love their black EN7237. it's got this simple elegance to it.

Ive not researched dual-16x-PCI-E boards or 939 boards much yet so ask someone else on those...

for RAM, check out PDP systems / Patriot. don't skimp on amounts here whatever you do! also, get two sticks, thats much better then one. Dual channel rocks for RAM, its way faster, and even if it doesnt do dual channel, RAM bank interleaving just makes it faster too. In two andd a half years you're going to wish you had purchased 2GB if you don't now. Also, despite what people say now, timings DO make a difference, a big one. get their CAS 2-2-2-5 ram. comes at a premium but it pays big divedends in performance added. PDP / patriot is made by kingston and comes with a lifetime warranty through the egg and if I remember right the original manufacturer too, so if something goes wrong you are double covered. nothing to worry about at all.

For processor (my experience is for socket A this may not apply for 939) get one FSB slate down from max the mobo supports, and bump it up to the top fsb you can. that way everything on the mobo is running at spec'd speeds, and you get free speed from the proc. (I remember reading a blurb about those things getting their FSB speed from the proc, ugh.... but theres gotta be a way around it!)

HSF - this is again for socket A and may not apply for 939. either get alpha or swiftech...or get watercooling, I prefer swiftech for w/c and alpha for air cooling. there is another for air, SLK 9000 or somesuch, I never tried 'em but they were quite good by what I read. you need a good one unless you wanna run HOT and risk instabilities.

 

[kubalaTF]

I had the same question when I put mine together. I went AGP, because I am also waiting for PCIe to get more matured. By the time I want to get a new computer in maybe 2 or so years, there'll be PCIe, DDR2, and who knows what else. And considering how intel's going to be working more on their architecture, who know's what's going to be coming out. To upgrade I can just get todays best for cheaper, I'll be just as happy. I think.

 

[gamekid]

thank u ladyjaqie but i already know what hardware im gonna get, for the most part......i dont think i can afford watercooling(well i could but not with the parts i want) seeing i basically need a whole new computer,(monitor, printer, keyboard/mouse and im also thinking about a new chair..etc.....)

as for the mobo, i herd the asus sli board sucks at overclocking and i never really took a likeing to asus anyways, i dont really know why.....i think im either gonna go with the msi sli board or the dfi sli board (considering these two companies took the lead for overclocking with their previous mobos)

and dont u need a 2.0 psu for sli?

and for ram, i was thinking the ocz vx series because they seem to oc to about 260mhz and i dont think i will need more to run a 1:1 divider. and this is if i can find any, also, if i get more ram in the future from a different brand or chip set, will this hinder my oc if it cant keep up with the 2-2-2-5 timings on the vx? (this is if i find some vx in the first place)

for the HSF, i was thinking a xp-120(if it will fit) or the xp-90 but i really hope the xp-120 will fit. but i still need a fan, i herd panaflos work great.

and when will the next gen video cards come out? because if its not so long i guess i couldget one of those.......i dont want to get a 6800gt and then in a couple of months have it be "second rate" when i just payed $450 for one.

i started a thread a while ago about what to get except i was really confused at the time. i am gonna make another one considering i want a lot of different parts. i will do that when i choose a motherboard. thanks for all the help guys, and ladies!