Virus Writing Class?

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Security companies don’t seem too thrilled with a computer course offered by a California college that teaches students how to write computer viruses. Thanks to Dan for the link.

Per the story, a computer science professor at Sonoma State University in California is teaching the course in order to train his students how to design better defenses. Security companies, on the other hand, have always vigorously decried any attempts to create new malware as automatically unethical, no matter the end goal.
Click to expand...
 
The idea of the class seems to be heading in the right direction, how to create better defenses against virus. You just have to be willing to trust your students not to write their own viruses they will use to cause damage. If they choose to do so & are caught, then of course proper punishment will need to be placed upon them.
 
Symantec: "What!? People learning in school how to write viruses!? That's absurd!"
McAfee: "Ridiculous! That professor should be arrested at once!"
Eset: "Are you guys fucking stupid? Do what you want with your tunnel vision, but I'll be persuading the top students in the class to consider an internship or employment each time the course is offered. Personally, I like the challenge."
 
"Security companies, on the other hand, have always vigorously decried any attempts to create new malware as automatically unethical, no matter the end goal."

unless the end goal is making companies like trend-micro, norton, macaffe... money...
oh yah, anti-virus companies want to stop virii as much as drug companies want to cure diseases....

like Chris Rock said, they don't wanna cure nothing, they make drugs to help you LIVE with the disease... ok i gotta stop typing, my AIDS* is acting up.


*note: i do not in fact have AIDS, nor am i HIV positive, and for the record, joking about serious terrible disease that are wiping out continents is automatically unethical, no matter what the end goal.
 
People arent stupid...name a single student in almost any CS field that hasn't toyed around with that stuff? It would be interesting to see if there is an "ethics" side of the class too.
 
Well, I look at it this way - considering a friend of mine had figured out on his own, how to bypass the Fool Proof Security on my highschool's computers using only QBasic and start deleting files whenever he wanted...I don't think it's much of a leap to take a class on how to do things like that. Hell, depending on what you're taught, you might already have the tools necessary staring you right in the face.

But, I do have to ask, how can they expect better security to be developed if they don't have people sit and try to break the thing? I am sure there are people who already get paid to do it as a professional, but at the same time, is there really any training out there specifically for something like that?
 
Sad thing is, viruses can really teach you about computer architecture...
 
At our university, a virus/trojan/etc writing class has been brought to the table as a new class for CS majors. They wouldn't mind having one, the only problem is the bad attention and questions of ethics it would bring to the doorsteps of all the faculty that OK'd the class. So it hasn't been implemented.... yet.
 
There's no reason to be concerned. It gives security companies a chance to see what new malware people are developing, new trends and focuses, etc. Maybe you'll get some outliers who will take what they learn and actually use it outside of class, but for the most part, the students will be better equipped in the real world. Talk about innovation in security, 'eh?

If people get paid to try compromising systems and disclose any vulnerabilities, why not encourage these schools?
 
heh.. when I had my computer science classes at U of Mich, the professor showed us how to write some basic virii that delete files and change config settings. Its incredibly easy, but nothing I'm interested in.
 
I highly doubt the Anti-Virus companies mind this. I mean come on. It's their core business, if we kill all virus writers how will they be needed and survive?
 
This is idiotic. Do Criminal Justice majors not learn how criminals commit crimes? Do Med students not learn how people die? Do US officers not study the war tactics of Hitler and Rommel? How do you stop virii if you have no idea how they work? Good lord...
 
KaosDG said:
Sad thing is, viruses can really teach you about computer architecture...
Click to expand...

Nothing sad about it, mate. The three questions of engineering are "What is it?", "What does it do?",. and "How do I break it?".
No reason there shouldn't be a class on how to break computers. Makes it easier to make break-proof ones in the future (or at least more so).
 
GJSNeptune said:
Symantec: "What!? People learning in school how to write viruses!? Thank God...we need more threats to sell more bloatware!"
McAfee: "Ridiculous! That professor should be praised at once! That man is given us a blank check from stupid people to keep our pockets full!"
Click to expand...

Fixed
 
LeTUOtter said:
Nothing sad about it, mate. The three questions of engineering are "What is it?", "What does it do?",. and "How do I break it?".
No reason there shouldn't be a class on how to break computers. Makes it easier to make break-proof ones in the future (or at least more so).
Click to expand...

Well, I meant sad from a standpoint that people automatically view it as unethical or wrong to study how they work.

I remember taking Monkey.B and dissecting it, just to learn how it worked...

The worst part about alot of "developer" schooling is they just teach you the how.

they never tell you the why.
 
KaosDG said:
Well, I meant sad from a standpoint that people automatically view it as unethical or wrong to study how they work.

I remember taking Monkey.B and dissecting it, just to learn how it worked...

The worst part about alot of "developer" schooling is they just teach you the how.

they never tell you the why.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That's gotta be the best part of this class. Any kid can come up with a virus, what with all the stuff on the net, but people who actually understand how it affects a computer? That's gold for security experts.
 
I'm wondering: they still let schools teach chemistry, right? I mean...someone could use that knowledge to make illegal drugs, explosives, etc. Isn't it unethical to teach chemistry?
 
qkool said:
At our university, a virus/trojan/etc writing class has been brought to the table as a new class for CS majors. They wouldn't mind having one, the only problem is the bad attention and questions of ethics it would bring to the doorsteps of all the faculty that OK'd the class. So it hasn't been implemented.... yet.
Click to expand...

The University of Calgary has had one of these classes for years. In fact, they now offer a graduate number-level course following the original. The same rhetoric and FUD buzzed around the internet and mainstream media at the time the original course was announced (so much so that it even got slashdotted, though I couldn't find the original article), but they still offered it and continue to do so. As previous comments stated, the goal is to understand how they happen because it helps you take them apart. The companies should be thanking institutions for courses like this because they get pre-trained experts in their exact business domain. Dumbasses.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/2007/what/courses/CPSC.htm#527 (there's a # link to 627 in that course description)
 
In order to learn something from top to bottom you pretty much have to live it.

This applies to this class, if you can write it, you know how to defend it.
 
KaosDG said:
Sad thing is, viruses can really teach you about computer architecture...
Click to expand...

No doubt about it. For a security course I choose to do this semester research project on rootkits, really interesting stuff and I learned a ton about operating systems. However, our CS cirriculum requires students to take CS Ethics previous to this or any other courses similar to it.

The bottom line is the general public hears the word virus and automatically freaks out. It comes down to whether or not the department head wants to kiss everybodies ass and look good or stick her neck out and teach the students something that could be meaningful and helpful in the future.
 
Dont a lot of network security classes teach you how you would hack into something and show you how you counter against it attempting to teach you how to better secure your development?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top