VelociRaptor 'External' HD

M

Mike Armstrong

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 26, 2005
Messages
197
I have a laptop with 2 USB 2.0 and 1 Firewire 800 ports. I would like a fast external drive for it. I was thinking of buying a WD VelociRaptor, stick in a HD case and connect it to my laptop via the Firewire connection (no SATAII port). Does this sound feasable? Thanks
 
Seems like a waste to me, though FireWire 800 in theory should get you 100MB/s, I can think of a bunch of hard disks (WD6400AAKS/6401AALS; Spinpoint F1 750GB/1TB, WD Caviar Black 1TB) that can achieve that for much cheaper. :)

Velociraptors are good as OS disks but as storage, you can spend less and get satisfactory and comparable performance. The place where Velociraptors really shine is in access times, and that'll be wasted away sitting inside of an external box.
 
Thanks Syntax,

If I understand correctly, since I must go the Firewire 800 route, then the VelociRaptor is 'overkill' in that the 100/mbs 'bottleneck' will keep it from reaching it's potential. Therefore, there other much cheaper HD's that could reach that 100/mbs threshold just as easily.

If that's the case then I shouldn't have to build an external HD but instead just buy one outright.

I was planning on using it to put my games on (FSX) rather than large capacity storage.

Keeping in mind Firewire 800, can you recommend a 'fast' external HD? Thanks
 
Any of recent 320 or 333 GB per platter drives would probably exceed firewire 800's bandwidth. The drives suggested by Syntax Error are good choices if you find a 1394b external enclosure for them.

If you're looking for a stock external drive with 1394b connections your selection is already limited, and it's hard to tell what model of drive comes preinstalled. For the cost, it might be better just to get an enclosure.

But I'm curious: why would you want to put your games on an external disk? I'm not so sure you'll actually get faster speeds going this route, since I hear the SATA to USB/1394b connection on external devices causes some latency.
 
Hi Kaldskryke,

Thanks for the explanations/advice.

I got the idea of putting FSX by itself on a separate HD (not neccessarily an 'external' HD) from an article about FSX performance. The 'external HD' route was actually my idea because I cant put a second HD in my laptop. I'm just trying to get the most out of this sim.

I have to use the Firewire 800 connection (I know it's not the best) because I need both USB ports for game controllers/mouse.
 
Mike Armstrong said:
Hi Kaldskryke,

Thanks for the explanations/advice.

I got the idea of putting FSX by itself on a separate HD (not neccessarily an 'external' HD) from an article about FSX performance. The 'external HD' route was actually my idea because I cant put a second HD in my laptop. I'm just trying to get the most out of this sim.

I have to use the Firewire 800 connection (I know it's not the best) because I need both USB ports for game controllers/mouse.
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How big/fast is the drive in the laptop right now and what laptop is it? It might be smart to upgrade to a fast 320 GB 7200 RPM laptop drive. Putting FSX on an external drive isn't going to increase performance.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
How big/fast is the drive in the laptop right now and what laptop is it? It might be smart to upgrade to a fast 320 GB 7200 RPM laptop drive. Putting FSX on an external drive isn't going to increase performance.
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New MacBook Pro. It has the 320 GB 7200 RPM HD upgrade already with OSX and XP X32 SP3 via Bootcamp on it. The author of the FSX article advidised to keep the Windows OS and FSX on separate drives for best performance
 
Mike Armstrong said:
New MacBook Pro. It has the 320 GB 7200 RPM HD upgrade already with OSX and XP X32 SP3 via Bootcamp on it. The author of the FSX article advidised to keep the Windows OS and FSX on separate drives for best performance
Click to expand...

Well, even if you could put FSX on a VelociRaptor you would only see better load times. Actual game performance is mostly affected by your CPU and GPU. Even when using time compression and flying long distances your disk usage isn't going to be that high.
 
I would really like to see an external 2.5" case specifically for a Velociraptor drive. It ought to come with at least both USB and eSata, and firewire 400/800 would really round out its flexibility. Naturally it could not run off USB power.

Folks love to jump all over the data transfer limitations (usb or firewire 400) and comparisons, but forget two important characteristics a Velociraptor would bring in an external solution. The first is access times. I use a bunch of virtual machines for my work, and virtual machines can never, ever, ever have fast enough access times. Even via a USB connection, a Velociraptor is a better experience while in the virtual machine - I've done it (in a standard 3.5" enclosure).

The second plus with a Velociraptor would bring would be real performance in a 2.5" solution. 2.5" 7200rpm laptop drives do not perform like their bigger brothers of the same speed. Heck, I just put HDTune on a new WD10eads (5400rpm I think) and the data transfer profile was better (in all metrics) than the 7200rpm 7200.3 Seagates in my laptop.

Even better would be a dual drive enclosure like this: http://www.addonics.com/products/enclosures/AE25RDESU.asp that could handle a pair of Velociraptors. For someone who travels a bunch, the Raid1 capability would be comforting, and there's always the option to go Raid0 for quick data transfer with eSata.

If something like that was around, I'd be all over it and some VR's w/o the silly icepack/heatsink thing.
 
All this talk about USB actually being a viable solution is cool and all... But wouldn't my suggestion of an ExpressCard to eSATA adapter be exactly what he is looking for? Looking here at a list of device bandwidths, it shows ExpressCard at over double that of 1394b, and I believe this list is old, it could be even more.

A VelociRaptor in an external enclosure with eSATA connected to this ExpressCard adapter.
 
Absolutely criccio - an eSata adapter would really help to get the most out of the investment of a Velociraptor. Now if there were only a 2.5" enclosure that would work for one without the heatsink.
 
JRS said:
Absolutely criccio - an eSata adapter would really help to get the most out of the investment of a Velociraptor. Now if there were only a 2.5" enclosure that would work for one without the heatsink.
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Newegg has one, it even comes with a PCMCIA card... not that that would be of any use. :D
 
I'm not sure that enclosure would work for a Velociraptor - even though a Velociraptor uses less power than almost any 3.5" drive, it still needs more than any laptop drive. I don't know what USB provides for power, but I believe it's all 5V, whereas I think a Velociraptor needs 12V like any desktop drive.

Edited to add: Plus a Velociraptor is something like 15mm high whereas the standard 2.5" laptop hard drive form factor is <10mm (I think).
 
JRS said:
I'm not sure that enclosure would work for a Velociraptor - even though a Velociraptor uses less power than almost any 3.5" drive, it still needs more than any laptop drive. I don't know what USB provides for power, but I believe it's all 5V, whereas I think a Velociraptor needs 12V like any desktop drive.
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It has an AC adapter and it says it may be needed for certain drives. OTOH, reading the reviews doesn't inspire much faith. They are most likely using the included PCMCIA adapter so that's probably why they are complaining about poor transfer speeds. Honestly OP, this would be your best bet.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

I'm going to go the route of a VelociRaptor, external enclosure with eSATAII, USB 2.0 (and Firewire 800 if I can fing that combo just to see for muself the difference in speeds), and a eSATA Expresscard (with a USB 2.0 port if I can find it 'cause I only have 2 of them).

Now to hunt down a good buy on a VelociRaptor and an enclosure that will fit it and a good tutorial for putiing the whole thing together and installing it (if something like that is really necessary).

Are Expresscard ports 'universal', in other words, do I have to look for certain ones that can be used on my MacBook Pro? Thanks again
 
Thanks Criccio.

Do I have to look for special enclosures for the 'VelociRaptor' other than it being for 3.5"?
 
Mike Armstrong said:
Thanks Criccio.

Do I have to look for special enclosures for the 'VelociRaptor' other than it being for 3.5"?
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One that is 3.5" and has the interface ports that you want. I suggest using Newegg to find one, as you probably know their product finding tool pretty much does all the work for you.

BTW, I thought you where going to dismount the VelociRaptor from the IcePak and get a 2.5" enclosure?
 
criccio said:
BTW, I thought you where going to dismount the VelociRaptor from the IcePak and get a 2.5" enclosure?
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Uh oh, whats that mean?


Ok, Google is indeed my friend, I now know what the 'IcePak' is that you were reffering to. I'll see how it fits in the enclosure with and without.
 
The Velociraptor is by no means a "standard" 2.5" drive, it's not even 12.5mm slim when most 2.5" drives are 9.5mm thick. The Velociraptor (and other 2.5" enterprise SAS drives such as the Seagate Savvios) are significantly thicker than a regular 2.5" laptop drive, though they are less thick than a standard 3.5" drive. They're somewhere in between (I forget the exact dimensions).

Point being, they probably won't fit in your traditional 2.5" enclosure as a result of this. The Velociraptor's greater power requirements due to its 10,000RPM rotational speed will also make it problematic by providing enough current for the drive to safely operate through the USB bus as well.
 
Syntax Error said:
Point being, they probably won't fit in your traditional 2.5" enclosure as a result of this. The Velociraptor's greater power requirements due to its 10,000RPM rotational speed will also make it problematic by providing enough current for the drive to safely operate through the USB bus as well.
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All that was discussed above. Also, if he was going to get a 2.5" enclosure, they all have AC adapters. (at least the ones I was looking at)
 
IIRC the Velociraptor with the icepack attached doesn't align the connectors the same as a standard 3.5-inch hard drive. This will be a problem for 3.5-inch enclosures with fixed connectors (as opposed to short internal cables that can be flexed to fix).

Also, I think Velociraptors need 12 volt power, so you won't be able to use it in most 2.5-inch enclosures anyway since those only provide 5 volt power.
 
SockMan! said:
IIRC the Velociraptor with the icepack attached doesn't align the connectors the same as a standard 3.5-inch hard drive. This will be a problem for 3.5-inch enclosures with fixed connectors (as opposed to short internal cables that can be flexed to fix).

Also, I think Velociraptors need 12 volt power, so you won't be able to use it in most 2.5-inch enclosures anyway since those only provide 5 volt power.
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All of this has already been covered, please read the whole thread before posting. You are only serving to confuse the OP if you don't know what you are talking about. There are different versions on the Velociraptor, one of them has the standard SATA connectors and is considered the "backplane" edition. See here. Also, if you read, the 2.5" enclosures that we looked at had external power adapters. That particular point is irrelevant now as the 2.5" VelociRaptor isn't the same size as a normal 2.5" drive, therefore wont fit in a 2.5" enclosure anyway.
 
Hi guys,

Well, this is what I bought,,,

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=495

http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/view_detail/212

http://www.merax.com/products/XpressCards/eSATA-Xpress.html

Everything fit together nicely, looks great and works just fine, thank you all for your help. The VelociRaptor is a work of art. The enclosure seems to be first rate.

My only concern is the Expresscard. From what I could tell it looks to be a quality card with good printed specs but not knowing anything about Expresscards I'll have to assume it's a decent brand that can actually deliver Serial ATA generation 2 transfer rate of 3.0 Gbps.


Mike
 
Hi Mike,

Did your setup work on eSATA perfectly? Any glitches or hiccups? What OS are you running?

I've got the Vantec NexStar 3, WD1500HLFS and an OEM Express Card 3/4 Sil 3132 2x port eSATA. My WinXP SP3 detects the drive, but everytime I try to format it fails. When I run the WD diagnostic test it says cable test fail. But it works on USB connection. Using the same setup (eSATA & USB) with other drives like Seagate 160GB Barracudas works fine. Anyone had this problem?

Thanks in advance.

Michael.
 
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