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v-sync mode while running the desktop

T

Tanquen

[H]ard|Gawd
2FA
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,294
Anyone know how to force the ATI x1900 into v-sync mode while running the desktop? Movie playback has bad horizontal tearing but only on the primary display. If I move the movie over to my second rotated display the playback is much better. I looks like when you rotate the screen it is forced into v-sync mode. This works on each display.

This is a pic of the issue:

 
i'll try to help... but you gotta promise to start using firefox :p

jk...

there should be an option in the catalyst control center... i'll check when i get home to be sure...
 
what happens if you run both monitors landscape? problem goes away?
 
When I first saw this I did try both displays on both DVI outputs and even tried rotating the primary display 180° just to see if the incidentally imposed v-sync mode would kick in but it only works if the display is rotated 90° or maybe 270°. I only noticed this in movie playback where chunks of the frame are a bit behind the other. I mess around with it again when I get home.
 
Dear Sir,

Does this just happen recently? If yes, have you done any software of
hardware changes to the system? Is there any difference between enabling
and disabling crossfire mode in the CCC?

Thanks.

Best regards,


HIS Support
 
> Does this just happen recently?
>
> No, at first I thought it was the video playback software but then I
> found that it was every thing on the desktop. I have even reinstalled
> windows and it still does this.
>
> Is there any difference between enabling and disabling crossfire mode in
> the CCC?
>
> No, I have tried each display on its own and different color depths
> and resolutions. So far the only thing that works is if either display is
> rotated 90 degrees or 270 degrees in the ATI driver.
>
> It seems like this is a driver issue.
 
Dear Sir,

This may be related to software config of the system. If you only one
X1900XTX in the system, would the same thing happens. If yes, would it be
possible that you can test this X1900XTX in another system. This will help
to isolate the problem quickly.

Thanks.

Best regards,
 
This may be related to software config of the system.


It could be but I have reinstalled windows and only installed all windows updates and the ATI drivers (no sound drivers or any other software) and the same thing happens.


If you only one X1900XTX in the system, would the same thing happens.


The Corssfire card is a new addition and the X1900XTX did this before I added the Crossfire card to the X1900XTX.


If yes, would it be possible that you can test this X1900XTX in another system. This will help to isolate the problem quickly.


Sorry, I don't have any other PCI-E system everything else is APG. You are welcome to send me another PCI-E system. :)


Have you tried to reproduce the issue? Remember the picture of the dual display is just show what it looks like, bad on the left good on the right. It will do this with either single display. Also, move the window from left to right and back very fast to easily see the issue.


I will try a reinstall of windows with each card on it’s own as I know not what else to try.
 
Ok, HIS has no clue.

I just tried the 6.7 driver and it fixes the black screen when running games with crossfire. They even mentioned it in the release notes, some kind of x1900 2405 LCD combo issue. But movies and fast moving stuff still tears on the 2D desktop.

Can no one duplicate this?

HELP
 
My responce to HIS:

You keep saying that is hardware related but...

If I rotate the screen in the ATI driver the tearing will not happen. How can that be just my motherboard or hardware? If I rotate one screen in the ATI driver, the computer is not too busy to update that screen but is too bust to update the other? Sorry, I don't think it has anything to do with the computer being too busy.

You haven't heard of this issue before. Have you tried to recreate the issue? Can I see a picture of your results where on two displays there is no tearing moving a window real fast across them both and there is no change in perceptible tearing if one is rotated in the ATI driver?

Sorry, I don't have a second motherboard to help test the HIS video card. I would love to help HIS test there cards for them. Pleases send me a motherboard that you know works and I will be happy to test the video cards on it.


From HIS:

Dear Sir,

Sorry for late reply. Tearing does occur if you move real fast but this should not be obvious. Have you tried the card in another system?

We haven't heard of this issue before. Since this problem happens with more than one X1900 and you have already installed the OS more than once, this seems to be a hardware related problem. The system seems to be very busy on other things when you are moving the Window. That's why you got the tearing. If this is really a hardware compatibility issue, this should go away when you test the card in another system.

Thanks.

Best regards,


HIS Support

----- Original Message -----
From: "
To: "'Support'" <support@hightech.com.hk>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:28 PM
Subject: RE: #057 X1900 Crossfire Edition


> Ok, I spent a bunch of my time reinstalling windows with each card by its self, one at a time and it did not help. This is my second email after I've done the reinstall but I have not heard back from you folks.
 
I looked this up a while ago, and IIRC, this is a problem with the way that windows draws things. I don't think this is a problem with your card or configuration. I think that the secondary display is handled differently by ati's software and does not have this problem.

Or, maybe it's a problem with the monitor, since you said the problem exists when the display is rotated 180 degrees, but not 90 or 270. Try swapping your two displays, your secondary to primary, and primary to secondary.

It seems unusual that your tearing is so bad that you can capture it in a picture so clearly. Regular windows machines get tearing, but if it's a reasonably fast machine, it's very hard to notice. Normally you can only see tearing as bad as you have it if you don't install the video card drivers at all (since there is no hardware acceleration).

Edit: One more thing, does the problem show up on the rotated monitor when the screen is rotated 90 or 270 degrees? That would suggest a problem with the way the monitor is handling the signal.
 
Talonz said:
Try swapping your two displays, your secondary to primary, and primary to secondary...

Edit: One more thing, does the problem show up on the rotated monitor when the screen is rotated 90 or 270 degrees? That would suggest a problem with the way the monitor is handling the signal.
Click to expand...

I first saw something during movie trailers that I like to download. I was like what the heck, the horizontal tearing is just as bad as my older slower PC and video card. I saw the problem so clearly because I have the two displays setup this way. I noticed that the horizontal tearing was gone if I watch the movie on the second display that happened to be rotated. I have tried each monitor and video card one at a time and it still comes down to the same thing:

If the display is rotated in the ATI driver 90° or 270° no tearing, horizontal or vertical. If the display at 0° or 180° I gets the tearing.

I don’t know for sure but this makes me think that there is some way for the ATI driver to not have tearing but it only kicks in if the chosen rotation is on it side not top or bottom. It’s got to be a driver thing. The DVI input on the LCD don’t care if the video card and windows is reordering the display image/desktop to look rotated.

In 3D games the v-sync works fine but they don't have the same thing for the 2D desktop?

:(
 
Wait, so HiS is actually attempting to offer support?

Pretty impressive. I couldn't get any help from them no matter what I tried to do.
 
phide said:
Wait, so HiS is actually attempting to offer support?

Pretty impressive. I couldn't get any help from them no matter what I tried to do.
Click to expand...

If you call random finger pointing support? I concede that this is an odd and difficult issue but telling me things like “it looks like you computer is slow” is a joke. In all honesty I think that the other X1900 cards out there are doing the same thing but no one else has noticed. I’ve read many forums where folks are saying that they still see tearing in movie playback on their new supper fast PC but I don’t think any have seen this little twist where you can move the video over to a second display that happens to be rotated and have the tearing go away.
 
Well, at least they're responding. I couldn't even get the typical "update your drivers" responses - I got no responses at all! Oh, and don't attempt to bother with their Japan number, either. Nobody there can speak English last time I called.

Offer a toll free American support line for products being targeted and sold in America? Bah! Who needs it!

Sorry for ranting in your thread here - I definitely feel like people should be warned about HiS's lackluster (read: non-existent) support, however.
 
Tanquen said:
I don&#8217;t know for sure but this makes me think that there is some way for the ATI driver to not have tearing but it only kicks in if the chosen rotation is on it side not top or bottom. It&#8217;s got to be a driver thing. ...
In 3D games the v-sync works fine but they don't have the same thing for the 2D desktop?

:(
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what I was trying to say. Windows by default, uses GDI+ to draw the desktop, which does not support vsync. Ati's tool must do something else that allows for vsync. Still, the tearing seems to be extra bad in your case.
 
That is another reason that I don't think that it is hardware related. The tearing DOES NOT follow the screen rotation. If I rotate the screen in the ATI driver the tearing is gone or looks much, much better if I move the window fast from top to bottom or from left to right. It is not just less noticeable, it gone. Like in my picture on the second display you can see some ghosting from the refresh of the LCD display but each instance of the window that was moved is complete, not in many pieces like the first non-rotated display. I can take another picture moving the window from top to bottom if you like.

So you are saying that what ever change in the ATI driver that is happening with the rotated display can not happen in the non-rotated display? Anything is possible but that seems a little hard to believe. I do believe that other x1900 card users have this same issue but don't have a second rotated display to notice what the non-rotated display really should look like. There are many forums where they talk about how they have a new fast system and they still see horizontal tearing in movie/video playback on the desktop. That is why I started to try different things. I could not believe that my new $3500 system could not playback video without horizontal tearing. It's not there in games if I use the v-sync setting. Again, it doesn't seem to be hardware related. Where is the v-sync setting for the 2D desktop? It seems like there is some kind of v-sync setting that is enabled if I rotate the screen in the ATI driver.

-----Original Message-----
From: Support [mailto:support@hightech.com.hk]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:17 AM
To: Richard Berry
Subject: Re: #057 X1900 Crossfire Edition

Dear Sir,

I agree that tearing is less noticable if you rotate the screen. This is
related to how the driver updates the window you are moving. However,
tearing should not be obvious even if you don't rotate the screen. We
haven't heard of this problem before. We suspect this is hardware
compatibility because you have already tried different drivers and also
reinstalled the OS.

If you move the window from top to bottom, do you see the tearing again
after rotating the screen?

Thanks.

Best regards,


HIS Support
 
I can still see some tearing on the rotated display - just vertically rather than horizontally. I dare say there is no solution to this unless you start using Aero Glass on Vista.
 
meatfestival said:
I can still see some tearing on the rotated display - just vertically rather than horizontally. I dare say there is no solution to this unless you start using Aero Glass on Vista.
Click to expand...

"The tearing DOES NOT follow the screen rotation. If I rotate the screen in the ATI driver the tearing is gone or looks much, much better if I move the window fast from top to bottom or from left to right. It is not just less noticeable, it gone. Like in my picture on the second display you can see some ghosting from the refresh of the LCD display but each instance of the window that was moved is complete, not in many pieces like the first non-rotated display. I can take another picture moving the window from top to bottom if you like."
 
tearingmc6.jpg


I think you should take another shot of moving it up and down on the rotated display.
 
meatfestival said:
I think you should take another shot of moving it up and down on the rotated display.
Click to expand...

Dude!

"The tearing DOES NOT DOES NOT DOES NOT follow the screen rotation. If I rotate the ..."


Dude, trust me I've done it million times. That is not what it looks like. Others have pointed that out. I wish weren’t there because it is not what you/others hope it is. It’s the slight difference in some of the frames as I moved the window rapidly from left to right. This is the normal window redraw as you move a window around the screen, not five or six large chunks scattered across the screen. If you look at the left side there is like five or six parts of the window and the same stepping is happening on the right it’s just that they are drawn all together.


“…I can take another picture moving the window from top to bottom if you like."

I do it as soon as I get some time.
 
This used to be a feature of matrox cards back in the day... desktop directdraw v-sync.

Ok there are a couple things you can try...

This used to be a matter of input rate: http://www.winguides.com/registry/display.php/81/

if it is doing it for movies, that is kindof weird... because mpeg acceleration uses an overlay and it should work. Nvidia cards are more prone to v-sync not working with the overlay. I know v-sync doesn't work with 3d in a window (that uses overlay) on nvidia cards. I could have sworn I remember my old x800xl working fine though.

Vista's desktop does not use direcdraw, it uses direct3d and DX, so these kinds of things should get better with vista.
 
I have been using the latest build of Vista and the issue is gone. Rotated or not it looks the same. It lame that they can’t do what ever it is that they do on the rotated screen to the un-rotated screen in WinXP. So I think support is wrong all the ATI 1900 cards do it not just mine and it’s not a hardware problem.
 
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