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Upgrading current SFF rig

S

Swiss SG

n00b
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
23
Hey all,

Time for an upgrade (current build at the end of this post)!

I built my current SFF rig with the help of you all a few years back and I feel like it's time for an upgrade. I'm looking for more input (and expertise) and I am open to ALL and ANY suggestions. So if I need a new MB/CPU/etc... please do not hesitate to say so!

1. What will you be doing with this PC?

1080p gaming while being able to live stream (Twitch) with 60fps.

2. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?

I'd love to be able to keep this upgrade at under $500. Tax and shipping are NOT included in this budget. Budget is flexible. Cost is NOT a driving factor, performance is.

3. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?

Live in Cambridge MA
There is a Microcenter very close to me

4. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out and turning to you all for input but I am assuming I will need:

GPU
SSD
RAM (?)

5. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.

I would like to keep the MB/CPU/Heatsink/Case/PSU however I am open to all suggestions:

MB: GIGABYTE GA-H67N-USB3-B3
CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge
CPU Heatsink: Thermalright AXP 140
CASE: LIAN LI PC-Q11B
PSU: SILVERSTONE Strider Plus ST50F-P PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
PSU cable: Silverstone Short Cable Set For Silverstone Strider Series Modular PSU Model PP05

6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.

Most important is size; trying to keep things small, portable and unobtrusive.

7. What resolution output do you need? 1080p, 720p, DVD quality, etc for HTPC or list Vertical/horizontal resolution for non-HTPC SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?

Single monitor 1080p. Don't need multiple monitor output for gaming but will need for daily activities.

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc.

No.

9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?

I built my first SFF rig here with your help and things have run fine. Ive never custom designed or modded. I feel confident I can do so with proper instructions. I know how to solder but have only done so with basic electronics like radios and headphones. I have access to most home improvement tools (hammer, screwdriver, drill, metal snips, wire cutters/strippers, etc...), could probably get my hands on a dremel if need be.

10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care

I am happy with the noise/silence of my current build.

11. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?

I currently move my case around with ease and would like to maintain it as so.

12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards

Yes. Win 7 home sp1 64bit OEM.

13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?

I would like to buy and build within the next week. My deadline to have all parts in is March 6th 2015.

Here is my current build which I am looking to upgrade:

MB: GIGABYTE GA-H67N-USB3-B3
CPU: Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge
CPU Heatsink: Thermalright AXP 140
RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Profile
HDD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM
ODD: None
GPU: EVGA 01G-P3-1373-AR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked EE 1GB
CASE: LIAN LI PC-Q11B
PSU: SILVERSTONE Strider Plus ST50F-P PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
PSU cable: Silverstone Short Cable Set For Silverstone Strider Series Modular PSU Model PP05
 
Thanks for the input.

I didn't realize that I would need to upgrade the MB/CPU. Is my current MB/CPU out of date for what I'm trying to achieve?

What would your recommendations be if there was no limit to the budget while trying to re-use the maximum pieces of hardware?
 
No, you definitely don't need to upgrade the CPU or motherboard.

What you absolutely need is a video card. Either a 960 or 970. Find one that fits your case.

You might or might not need more RAM. It should be pretty obvious to you when you're out of RAM and swapping to the HDD.

Spend the rest of the budget on a good mid-range SSD.
 
Swiss SG said:
Thanks for the input.

I didn't realize that I would need to upgrade the MB/CPU. Is my current MB/CPU out of date for what I'm trying to achieve?

What would your recommendations be if there was no limit to the budget while trying to re-use the maximum pieces of hardware?
Click to expand...

You just need a GPU short enough for your Q11. There are very limited options if you choose a mid to high end GPU.
As for SSD, just get the cheapest one that's not too old, but avoid Samsung 840 Evo (slowdown issue), Kingston V300 and PNY Optima (bait-and-switch).
 
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This is the best-reviewed short GTX 960 out right now, and it's got one of the quietest coolers as well:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_960_STRIX_OC/4.html

Should be almost the same size as the GTX 460, plus the vertical power connectors should give you a little more breathing room.

This caught my interest because I am also upgrading a GTX 460 in a space-constrained Sonata 3.

There is also this, but I'm not sure if the cooler is quiet:

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5369#ov

You don't need to upgrade your processor (I also have a 2500k @ 4.0, and won't be upgrading for a few years). You're good on ram, although if you're already tearing things down you might want to go ahead and get 16GB. Remember if you're using Windows 7 Home your max ram is 16GB.
 
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For your SSD upgrade, I always recommend size first, raw performance/specs a close second. The SSD that best balances this concept while having high reliability is the Crucial MX100, which you can get 512GB with a 3 year warranty for just $200.

http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX100-2-5-Inch-Internal-CT512MX100SSD1/dp/B00KFAGCUM

If you must have the bestest, then there's the Samsung 850 Pro 512GB, 10-year warranty:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-512GB-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-7KE512BW/dp/B00LF10KTO

Both are within your price range, but it's up to you how much you want to spend. There really isn't any point in looking at any other models, because they don't offer enough performance improvement to justify the price premium over the MX100. Also, the MX100 512GB version is the cream-of-the-crop model, as it's the perfect amount of flash chips to feed the SSD controller (they use high-density chips, so the more the merrier).
 
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Spend an extra $100 and get a Samsung 850 EVO and a short 970, like the Asus 970 Mini or Gigabyte 970 ITX. Everything else in your rig looks perfectly fine.

However, if you want to keep it under $500, you could use a 250GB SDD instead of the 500gb. You could add another one later if you like (one for games, the other for OS), but using a 250gb alone does feel a bit limiting after a while. (Planning on adding a 500gb SSD to my rig when Windows 10 is released.)
 
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medeyer said:
Spend an extra $100 and get a Samsung 850 EVO and a short 970, like the Asus 970 Mini or Gigabyte 970 ITX. Everything else in your rig looks perfectly fine.

However, if you want to keep it under $500, you could use a 250GB SDD instead of the 500gb. You could add another one later if you like (one for games, the other for OS), but using a 250gb alone does feel a bit limiting after a while. (Planning on adding a 500gb SSD to my rig when Windows 10 is released.)
Click to expand...

Gonna have to say no to the Samsung 850 Evo. Because it's TLC, it performs the same as the MX100 512GB, (within 10 percent) which is MLC:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review/6

Absolutely not worth the price premium, especially when Samsung has a long history of their 840 Evo drives showing late-life performance issues that took months to fix. Still not fixed as-of this week:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041444015#post1041444015

The Evo 840 had it's day in the sun, but the Evo 850 is just not fast enough to justify it's price.
 
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defaultluser said:
The Evo 840 had it's day in the sun, but the Evo 850 is just not fast enough to justify it's price.
Click to expand...

Depending on what day you look, you can often find the 512GB version of the 840 Evo, 850 Evo and MX100 for ~$200 on sale. So.. not exactly a price premium for one or the other, if you shop around.
 
AFD said:
Depending on what day you look, you can often find the 512GB version of the 840 Evo, 850 Evo and MX100 for ~$200 on sale. So.. not exactly a price premium for one or the other, if you shop around.
Click to expand...

But I think I already made it clear that there's NO TANGIBLE BENEFIT to the Evo, other than the 5 year warranty.

And Samsung doesn't exactly have the best history getting their midrange Evo parts working as well as the Pro parts. At this point they've acknowledged the Evo 840 slowdowns for 6 months, and still haven't fixed it. They released one firmware update already.
 
defaultluser said:
But I think I already made it clear that there's NO TANGIBLE BENEFIT to the Evo, other than the 5 year warranty.

And Samsung doesn't exactly have the best history getting their midrange Evo parts working as well as the Pro parts. At this point they've acknowledged the Evo 840 slowdowns for 6 months, and still haven't fixed it. They released one firmware update already.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 840/850 Evo and MX100 all perform very closely and can usually be had for the same price.. was just saying there's not always a "price premium" for the 850 Evo, as you had stated. If OP likes Sammy drives or longer warranties, get one.. if he likes Crucial or prefers MLC, then get that instead.. their differences are minor across the board. Nothing worth arguing over imo.

I own an 840 Evo, and haven't experienced the slowdown issue (yet), but personally, I would buy an 850 Evo over an MX100 due to the simple fact that Samsung sells a lot more drives than Crucial, and such a large amount of consumers bitching at them helps to force them address and try to correct any issues such as that. But no, I probably wouldn't recommend the 840 Evo because of that particular issue, but I also wouldn't recommend against an 850 Evo solely due to an 840 Evo issue.

Dumb logic on my part, perhaps.. but I do understand why yourself and others might want to steer clear of them. Dunno.. I might just get an 850 Pro instead when the prices drop a little more :)
 
First off, thanks for everyone's input I appreciate it VERY much. Having been in my own bubble for the past 4 years, I've started reading a lot trying to catch up and it's amazing (as well as overwhelming) to learn how much has changed!

vipz said:
No, you definitely don't need to upgrade the CPU or motherboard.

What you absolutely need is a video card. Either a 960 or 970. Find one that fits your case.

You might or might not need more RAM. It should be pretty obvious to you when you're out of RAM and swapping to the HDD.

Spend the rest of the budget on a good mid-range SSD.
Click to expand...

Glad to know my MB/CPU can still hack it. I figured I would have to upgrade the GPU and was prioritizing the bulk of my funds on this purchase. I'm planning on buying everything before I head to Europe so I may take advantage of the lower US prices and upgrade the RAM to be on the safe side.

cowsgomoo said:
You just need a GPU short enough for your Q11. There are very limited options if you choose a mid to high end GPU.
As for SSD, just get the cheapest one that's not too old, but avoid Samsung 840 Evo (slowdown issue), Kingston V300 and PNY Optima (bait-and-switch).
Click to expand...

Thanks for reminding me about the GPU size, definitely something that I did not want to overlook.

Thanks VERY much for the heads up regarding the 840 Evo issue - I was shocked to see so many review sites recommending this as their top pick (and not revising their reviews to mention this issue) and the sheer amount of people who have purchased this SSD which are now having to deal with Samsungs seemingly poor customer service and half fixes.

defaultluser said:
This is the best-reviewed short GTX 960 out right now, and it's got one of the quietest coolers as well:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_960_STRIX_OC/4.html

Should be almost the same size as the GTX 460, plus the vertical power connectors should give you a little more breathing room.

This caught my interest because I am also upgrading a GTX 460 in a space-constrained Sonata 3.

There is also this, but I'm not sure if the cooler is quiet:

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5369#ov

You don't need to upgrade your processor (I also have a 2500k @ 4.0, and won't be upgrading for a few years). You're good on ram, although if you're already tearing things down you might want to go ahead and get 16GB. Remember if you're using Windows 7 Home your max ram is 16GB.
Click to expand...

I'm super lucky that you had this GPU info at your fingertips! Thanks also for mentioning the power connector position which also did not cross my mind. I was pretty much set on getting a 960 but after doing more reading, I'm now leaning towards the 970 (despite the vram drama.) Any reason you're looking at 960 over 970? Have you looked into medeyer's post on the 970s? Any thoughts?

I had no idea about the 16gb ram limit on Win 7 Home, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

defaultluser said:
For your SSD upgrade, I always recommend size first, raw performance/specs a close second. The SSD that best balances this concept while having high reliability is the Crucial MX100, which you can get 512GB with a 3 year warranty for just $200.

http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-MX100-2-5-Inch-Internal-CT512MX100SSD1/dp/B00KFAGCUM

If you must have the bestest, then there's the Samsung 850 Pro 512GB, 10-year warranty:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-512GB-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-7KE512BW/dp/B00LF10KTO

Both are within your price range, but it's up to you how much you want to spend. There really isn't any point in looking at any other models, because they don't offer enough performance improvement to justify the price premium over the MX100. Also, the MX100 512GB version is the cream-of-the-crop model, as it's the perfect amount of flash chips to feed the SSD controller (they use high-density chips, so the more the merrier).
Click to expand...


I fully agree with prioritizing the size. I've got 128gb on my laptop and as many other people have opined it's fills up much faster than expected. I feel solid moving forward with a MX100, any thoughts on my response to mdeyer?

medeyer said:
Spend an extra $100 and get a Samsung 850 EVO and a short 970, like the Asus 970 Mini or Gigabyte 970 ITX. Everything else in your rig looks perfectly fine.

However, if you want to keep it under $500, you could use a 250GB SDD instead of the 500gb. You could add another one later if you like (one for games, the other for OS), but using a 250gb alone does feel a bit limiting after a while. (Planning on adding a 500gb SSD to my rig when Windows 10 is released.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for those 970 links, I'm inclined to choose this over a 960.

Debating buying 250gb and putting the $70 towards a 970 since I still have my 1TB HDD as storage now. Any advantage to having a 128gb dedicated to the OS and buying a 256gb as my other drive? Other than the $/gb, heat/power factor any advantage to having 1 large drive rather?

AFD said:
Yeah, the 840/850 Evo and MX100 all perform very closely and can usually be had for the same price.. was just saying there's not always a "price premium" for the 850 Evo, as you had stated. If OP likes Sammy drives or longer warranties, get one.. if he likes Crucial or prefers MLC, then get that instead.. their differences are minor across the board. Nothing worth arguing over imo.
Click to expand...

I don’t have a strong preference for either brand, leaning towards Crucial, definitely will avoid the 840evo. Samsungs response to all this has put me off a bit.
 
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