• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Upgrading 2 year old computer

M

miketd

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
86
I am upgrading a two year old computer that I originally built for my friend. These upgrades are centered at improving gaming performance and so I am going to first double his ram from 512MB to 1GB. In addition, I am going to replace his GeForce 4600 with something more modern. He is not looking to spend over about 400 dollars for the card and so I've been trying to find the best bang for the buck card for him that is currently available. From what I've read, the best card in this price range is the Geforce 6800 GT.

-Ignoring ATI/nVidia bias AND cards that are "out" but not available (e.g. x800 XL), am I right about the 6800 GT being the right card for the situation?

-If I am right, what 6800 GT models have you guys had a positive experience with? I read eVGA was good?

Thanks in advance.

-Mike
 
As bang for the buck and willing to spend up to $400, then I would recommend a 6800GT with the NV Silencer......
 
gotget the nvsiliencer if ur not gonna overclock.. so don't worry about that if your not
 
umm, whats the specs on the rest of the system?

while I'm sure a 6800GT will boost the performance of almost any system, there comes a point where it's overkill and not the best use of available funds.
 
You need to make sure that his PSU can handle ANY modern card. The 9800 pro draws nearly as much power as a 6800 Ultra, so beware no matter what newer card you use.
 
The system is currently an Athlon 2200+ running with 512MB Corsair XMS PC2700. Like I said, the current video card is a GeForce Ti 4600.

For gaming, I figured the biggest bottleneck is the ram and the video card. Am I right to think that the processor is still suffeciently fast to appreciate a 6800GT?

I think he has an antec 430 watt power supply, which I believe is enough for the video card?

So assuming I am right and the best upgrade is to double the ram and get the 6800GT, which 6800GT model should I buy?

Thanks for your help,
Mike
 
Model doesn't really matter just be warry of the ASUS HSF's, I hear they suck. Doubling the ram would be a good idea as well but buy a stick of PC3200 and above, don't waste money on pc2700 ram, pc3200 is cheaper too.

~Adam
 
That Antec PSU should be fine as long as its the True power and not the Smart power. His CPU is probably going to bottleneck the card anyway, so the extra RAM won't really help with gaming all that much. It will make applications run smoother though. He might want to get a more modern CPU and Motherboard though.

As far as brands go MSI and BFG seem to be very good for the 6800 series. Don't go for the gimmicky or overpriced versions though.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
You need to make sure that his PSU can handle ANY modern card. The 9800 pro draws nearly as much power as a 6800 Ultra, so beware no matter what newer card you use.
Click to expand...

I find that hard to believe, my 9800Pro runs fine with a 250W PSU, and that would not be nearly enough for a 6800U. In fact, Dell has issued warnings against upgrading to 6800U due to its power demand. If possible, could you post a link with your source of information?
 
Well read and be amazed like I was. http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-19.html
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-20.html

You'll be wanting a new PSU now I'm sure. :eek: You're PSU exhaust is probably hotter than a jet exhaust with afterburners when you're gaming :eek: If you're running all that off a 250W PSU no matter how good it is its still going to die and probably kill a lot of your stuff. The 9800 pro comes with a warning too. It says that you need AT LEAST a 300W power supply minimum. And that's one with a strong 12V line. Whats the amperage of your 12V line just out of curiousity? I'm guessing less than 16 when you should have 26 at least for that system.
 
hmm interesting...

My 12v line is 18a I think, I don't know all that much about psu's but I heard from a respectable man that 18a should be the lowest you ever go and it was the highest available 12v rail at newegg at the time... for a reasonable price anyhow, odd.

~Adam
 
When I had an L&C pos PSU and even with the Thermal Take 480W's I returned, I'd notice the fans slow down whenever theres something CPU or GPU intensive going on. You can tell by the sound level change. The fan noise gets lower in pitch. Thats a sign you've got too little power. With my new server PSU's there's no such drop off. I'd recommend overkill on the PSU, and don't look at Watts or fancy cables and crap like that. If its made to run dual Xeons it'll run a good GPU and CPU. I'd highly recommend Enermax and you should really check the stickys on the PSU section. I managed to get two Enermax units with 36A 12v lines and even their 350W units have 26A on the 12v line which puts most of the rebranded or junkfood PSUs to shame. Ice Czar and computerpro3 did great jobs with the stickys.

Those benchmarks should put to rest the myth that Nvidia cards use sooo much more power than the ATI ones do.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
Well read and be amazed like I was. http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-19.html
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-20.html

You'll be wanting a new PSU now I'm sure. :eek: You're PSU exhaust is probably hotter than a jet exhaust with afterburners when you're gaming :eek: If you're running all that off a 250W PSU no matter how good it is its still going to die and probably kill a lot of your stuff. The 9800 pro comes with a warning too. It says that you need AT LEAST a 300W power supply minimum. And that's one with a strong 12V line. Whats the amperage of your 12V line just out of curiousity? I'm guessing less than 16 when you should have 26 at least for that system.
Click to expand...
Well I read the link and there's nothing about the 9800 Pro, but I guess its power consumption is somewhere between the 9600XT and 9800XT, which means it consumes 50W less than a 6800U during 3D gaming and a 250W PSU is sufficient. My system has been perfectly stable for 18 months.
 
jon67 said:
Well I read the link and there's nothing about the 9800 Pro, but I guess its power consumption is somewhere between the 9600XT and 9800XT, which means it consumes 50W less than a 6800U during 3D gaming and a 250W PSU is sufficient. My system has been perfectly stable for 18 months.
Click to expand...

At idle, its continuous load is higher than a 6800 Ultra. If you have a good system, its most likely going to be power hungry. Why try to save a couple of bucks when it could cost you your whole system when the crappy PSU dies? Read the PSU section of the forum for the horror stories and FAQs. Yes you can run a 6800 Ultra on a 250W POS PSU, but its a really stupid thing to do considering the risk. Even if it does WORK, its still feeding improper voltage to, overheating and likely damaging the components, letting transients into the computer power system, and slowly but surely wrecking your hardware.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
At idle, its continuous load is higher than a 6800 Ultra. If you have a good system, its most likely going to be power hungry. Why try to save a couple of bucks when it could cost you your whole system when the crappy PSU dies? Read the PSU section of the forum for the horror stories and FAQs. Yes you can run a 6800 Ultra on a 250W POS PSU, but its a really stupid thing to do considering the risk. Even if it does WORK, its still feeding improper voltage to, overheating and likely damaging the components, letting transients into the computer power system, and slowly but surely wrecking your hardware.
Click to expand...

I guess that's why Dell is warning against use of the 6800U with a 250W PSU. I don't have a 6800U in my present system and never will.

I have to repeat that you have given no power consumption data for the 9800 Pro, well here are some:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-vs-nv-power_10.html

These data indicate that the 9800Pro draws 25 W less than 6800U when loaded, when idle the cards are equal. Furthermore, in some games the faster 6800U probably turns the CPU into a bottleneck, with increased (maxed out) CPU power consumption as a result.
 
So if they're equal at idle, which is what you're usually using them at, and greater than a 6800nu at load(they recommend a 330W min for the nu on the box it comes in), doesn't it make sense that you should also consider using a 330W or greater PSU for it? 25W less isn't a huge difference either, its the difference between more or less system RAM. You're cutting it close no matter how you look at it.

Not only are you cutting it close, you're almost certianly underpowered because the 12V line on a 250W psu is probably really really weak.

P.S. ATI recommends a 300W minimum for the PSU for the 9800 PRO. ;) Maybe they do it for no reason? Maybe they're in kahoots with the PSU manufacturers? Maybe its a good thing to have so you're safe and not sorry?
 
Dell has sold a lot of Dimension 8300 systems configured with 9800Pros and 250W PSUs, so I guess they knew the PSU could handle it. I've seen no signs of PSU overload (instability, shutdowns) during gaming so far.
 
With computers the way they are these days it just doesn't make sense to have an OEM 250W PSU. It severly limits your upgradability. Its just easier for Dell to make a profit if they put something in there that will just barely support all the components in the computer. If you want to upgrade you're screwed. My friend plugged a Ti4200 into his HP with a 200W psu and it died. When you're talking about being under spec or even right there on the borderline its just not worth the risk to your expensive components. Even if the manufacturers are dumb enough to replace the things you break with a crappy PSU you still have to wait for them to send you replacements.
 
yea.. I'd tend to agree, get a barton 2500+ mobile cpu and get a nice cooling solution and OC that bad boy would be much better than 512 megs of ram.
 
I think you may be spending the money in the wrong place. While a 6800 GT will improve gaming, the AXP 2200 looks like it will hold it back a lot. Consider keeping the 4600 and buying an A64 MOBO/CPU/MEM combo. If anyone sees any benchmarks that approximate the situation, I think it would be neat to see them.

Tsumari
 
To clear the record, he has a Antec 430 watt TruePower PSU. So power is not an issue.

On the note of the 2200+ being a bottleneck. I agree that it will hold the 6800GT back somewhat, however, I fail to see how a better option with $500 is to buy a new A64/Mobo combo and leave the video card alone? Then he'll still be stuck with the Ti 4600 and be able to generate frames, just not render them. Seems the best bang for the buck is in upgrading the video card.

Also, I outright disagree that doubling the ram is not worth it. The WORST thing when gaming is to drop to 3-4 fps because of hard disk thrashing. From personal experience, I have noticed that 1GB is necessary to run new, memory intensive games smoothly.

Thanks for your input.

-Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top