tips for weather proof computer / covers?

[xcgames]

I've decided to keep all my folding machines to my balcony to keep my room temperature down, but then I'm concerned about rain shorting everything out.

Has anyone actually attempted to build a weather proof computer? I know a dog house would be an easy solution but the balcony is like 2 feet by 12 feet, I can at best fit two computers side by side

 

[DeadlyAura]

Water proof it like a boat. Build a plexi or lexan case to enclose them all. Buy some rather large fans to fit around the box to vent. Pick it up off the ground about 6 inces or so to prevent anything from getting inside. (Rain, tree droppings, small furry creatures) Put an intake fan on the bottom and exhausts on the sides. Over each exhaust put a cover that sticks out about 3 inches and is open at the bottom. So now, your air will all come in the bottom (make sure the hole is filtered well) and be exhausted out the sides (filter these as well). Paint the plastic a light color to reflect the light instead of absorb it.

Buy some silicone. Silicone all the edges of the plexi so the box is airtight around all the seams. This should make it dry enough for you. As long as the air is moving and it is cooler inside than outside the water will not condense inside and you will not get moisture. (Like a glass of water on a hot summer day). Make sure the raised case can't get anything underneath. Make one of the sides removable so that you can clean the fans, filters, and computers.

I would personally remove the cases all except for the aluminum inside frame to get the most possible room and the most possible airflow from that tight little box.

Now, this is a rash solution, but it will ensure that you'r PC's won't get damaged by the harsh outdoors.

 

[xcgames]

thanks for the tips, it's gonna be an interesting project. i had similar idea in mind, in fact I already picked out a huge room fan for cooling.

 

[FrostBite]

Condensation and morning dew will be your biggest problem. Once it gets in the case, and it will due to condensation, it's going to get muggy in there and maybe screw with your elecontrics. Unless the plexiglass is really really thick.

 

[DeadlyAura]

Not if it is cooler inside the plexi than out. Condensation forms from warm airhitting cool air. The moisture in the warm air cools and CONDENSES into liquid droplets. That is why alot of cooling and air movement is necessary. Thick plexi won't do anything more than make the case stronger. Water won't get through the plastic so thicker won't be better. Plus, it has ventilation holes so the moisture would get in anyways if it were to get in at all. Thats why I would put the intake on teh bottom but elevated off the ground. There is very little chance of even rainwater to be sucked up off the ground with a conventional fan 6 inches away.

As long as teh cooling is good enough, you will not get condensation inside. Also known as the greenhouse effect.

 

[Qtip42]

I'm thinking shingles, house wrap, and some insulation.

 

[RadCliffeX]

I'm thinking shingles, house wrap, and some insulation.

Im thinking sparks, fires and a really cool show, Make sure to have your camera handy the first night it rains!






My question is how are you going to keep the inside cooler than the outside? i mean this is a computer that generates heat...The air to cool it has to come from somewhere.




Personally a weather proff computer to me would be a 100% Sealed computer with a 100% Heatpipe design, have the heatpipe lead out of the case to help cooling. But other than that if you are pulling in air from the outside you are running the risk of pulling in moisture.

 

[Conano]

why not just install a small 80$ AC window unit in the room they are currently in... Would help keep the temp down.

 

[Mr. Muffin]

an ac is the only way it will work but u need to make sure that its the only intake and that there is always positive presser in the case, add the cfm of the exaust fans and make sure its between 5-10 cfm less then the ac.
if u dont know the cfm of the ac then setup 4-5 exaust and drill one small hole in the side of the case (about 1/4"). if there is air coming out of that hole there is positive presser, if it sucks air in then the exaust fans are to strong and u will need to get rid of some.
another thing, u will need to fill in the hole that u used to check the presser because if the ac loses cfm for any reason then it will start sucking through every hole in the case and bring up ur ambent temp, thus making condensation

i hope u can understand this, somtimes im kinda hard to understand

 

[DeadlyAura]

Makes sense. I followed it.

The intake would come from a large room fan that will act as the bottom of the case. the exhaust will be out the sides. This large room fan will create a positive pressure inside the case. Because the echausts will be smaller. Or, the other option is to have no exhaust fans so there is no chance of negative pressure. It could just be downward facing holes that vent out the pressure. It will work as long as there is positive pressure and plenty of air flow. The air moving aound inside the case would keep it cooler than teh outside.

 

[Ockie]

This does not sound like a good idea....

 

[t3chyo888]

go with the plexi glass idea and a few of these http://www.frozencpu.com/slf-06

 

[cyks]

Holes = water

 

[Fenris_Ulf]

The air moving aound inside the case would keep it cooler than teh outside.

Not in our world of thermodynamics. Heat will be generated inside the case. The airflow is used to remove the heat. Fans do not cool anything per se, they are simply used to bring relatively cooler air from outside the case to the inside where heat is removed from components via convective cooling. Using just fans, you will never be able to get inside the case temperatures below outside the case temperatures. That actually could be a good thing because there will be less chance of condensation with higher temperaures (hot air can hold more water vapor, therefore it won't change phase to water). Of course, higher temperatures also mean that there is more humidity in the air, and more chance for corrosion.

 

[DeadlyAura]

How bout buying a case air conditioner?

http://www.a1-electronics.net/PcHardware/Various/2004/Waffer_PCAirCon-400_Aug.shtml

Or I actually saw someone build a plexi box with a condensor and pump in it and the ran a radiator into the case. Put a couple of 120mm on the radiator with the cold water and blow it onto the PC. It was a nice setup especailly when the air being pumped through the case was a about 40*F. Nice and cool and fairly practical for a setup like your own.

 

[Arcygenical]

I like the room airconditioner idea. Move the Cold radiator inside your case, and seal it completely. It's easy to totally seal a case, and room airconditioners can be had (5200BTU) for very cheap.

I just modified my window AC to stop beeping (read blasting a 90db siren) whenever I pressed any button. On the inside you just have a length of copper tubing between the coldrad and the rest of the unit. This should be fairly easy to put inside a case.

Question of the day, can the copper tubing in an AC be cut, drained, refilled and resoldered?

 

[Mohonri]

Actually, you want the inside to be warmer than the outside. And without using A/C, that's exactly what'll happen. See, dew forms when a surface is colder than the dewpoint of the air. Air is always above its own dewpoint. If the air inside the enclosure is warmer than the air outside the enclosure, the enclosure itself will be somewhere in between, and therefore above the dewpoint. So in any case, condensation will not be an issue. </physicslesson>

Actively ventilating such an enclosure is a must, however. If your balcony's not in the shade now, I would definitely recommend creating shade. Making it airtight isn't necessary...in fact, it won't do anything for you, since you're blowing outside air into it anyway! Don't have any holes open upwards, and make sure to put some sort of canopy/shield over any side holes. Make sure there's some sort of barrier/screen/mesh over all the inlet/exhaust holes to make sure you won't get any animals/leaves/whatever in there. At least one down-facing hole would be good, just in case you *do* get water in there.

Oh, and some good cables/locks, so nobody walks off with your farm.

 

[t3chyo888]

wouldnt it be easyer to just use better heatsinks this way the heatsinks dont get as warm meaning less heat being blown around bye the cpu fan . may be wrojng but it make sense to me i run a quad 933 in my closet modified the heatsinks to these big beast and my closet temps dropped because the heat was disapated faster . dont mind the spelling

 

[Geo Fry]

wouldnt it be easyer to just use better heatsinks this way the heatsinks dont get as warm meaning less heat being blown around bye the cpu fan . may be wrojng but it make sense to me i run a quad 933 in my closet modified the heatsinks to these big beast and my closet temps dropped because the heat was disapated faster . dont mind the spelling

A larger and more efficient heatsink would actually put MORE heat into the air as they would be better at getting the heat off the processor... I mean if your processor stays cooler due to better heatsinks than that heat has to go somewhere, and where would that be, the air

 

[DeadlyAura]

Actually, you want the inside to be warmer than the outside. And without using A/C, that's exactly what'll happen. See, dew forms when a surface is colder than the dewpoint of the air. Air is always above its own dewpoint. If the air inside the enclosure is warmer than the air outside the enclosure, the enclosure itself will be somewhere in between, and therefore above the dewpoint. So in any case, condensation will not be an issue. </physicslesson>

Actively ventilating such an enclosure is a must, however. If your balcony's not in the shade now, I would definitely recommend creating shade. Making it airtight isn't necessary...in fact, it won't do anything for you, since you're blowing outside air into it anyway! Don't have any holes open upwards, and make sure to put some sort of canopy/shield over any side holes. Make sure there's some sort of barrier/screen/mesh over all the inlet/exhaust holes to make sure you won't get any animals/leaves/whatever in there. At least one down-facing hole would be good, just in case you *do* get water in there.

Oh, and some good cables/locks, so nobody walks off with your farm.

First of all, you can't very well walk off a babalcony. Especially with a load of computers.

Second of all, you are partially right. There is moisture in warm air. The warm air will condense if it hits the cooler outside of the plexi. Thats why you want to have the warm air on the outside. The warm air is what is going to cool and condense. Condensing is the result of water in the air slowing down and becoming a liquid state. The matter still moves, but it is slower than if in the air. Therefore, it groups together and remains a whole. [/chem lesson]

 

[Fenris_Ulf]

First of all, you can't very well walk off a babalcony. Especially with a load of computers.

Second of all, you are partially right. There is moisture in warm air. The warm air will condense if it hits the cooler outside of the plexi. Thats why you want to have the warm air on the outside. The warm air is what is going to cool and condense. Condensing is the result of water in the air slowing down and becoming a liquid state. The matter still moves, but it is slower than if in the air. Therefore, it groups together and remains a whole. [/chem lesson]

Well, not really. It's a phase change, not a matter of "speed". [/thermodynamics lesson] In theory, because heat is added inside the case, there won't be any condensation inside. And it won't condense outside because the relative humidity is the same. I would be worried about something like fog or dew since this is supersaturated with water. And make sure it's well filtered.

 

[spydermonkey]

I just had an idea for this, and it might sound stupid because it's so late, but here goes:
Any fans blowing into the case should have some sort of a gooseneck like on a kitchen sink to catch any incoming water before it goes into the case. As for removing moisture from the air inside the case, maybe some silica gel like the packets that come in stereo equipment boxes? Does charcoal do the same thing? Maybe have two filters with charcoal sandwiched inbetween to dry the air coming in and going out? Maybe it's a stupid idea. It's a stupid idea. Go ahead. Tell me it's a stupid idea.

EDIT: turns out charcoal is used to moisturize air from scuba tanks. The idea was stupid. Try one of these instead:

http://www.drytheair.com/xcart/stor...r__Unit_with_1_Package_of_13_oz_Crystals.html

and refill with these things when needed:

http://www.drytheair.com/xcart/stor...ZAir__1_Package_of_13_oz_Refill_Crystals.html

EDIT 2: Seems that silical gel is renewable, so you would check that out too.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...0340299&cm_ite=0005567220673a&_requestid=4430

All you have to do to reactivate it is place it in the oven to dry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

 

[Mohonri]

There is moisture in warm air. The warm air will condense if it hits the cooler outside of the plexi. Thats why you want to have the warm air on the outside. The warm air is what is going to cool and condense.

Nothing is going to condense unless there's something that's colder than the dewpoint of the air. As the air goes through the enclosure, it heats up, but the dewpoint stays the same, since the water content stays the same. The cool air is above the dewpoint. The warm air is above the (same) dewpoint. The case is above the dewpoint. Nothing's going to condense.

<physics lesson>The reason you see your breath in the winter is because the outside air is below the dewpoint of the air you expel. Cold air can't hold as much water as warm air, so the water falls out....or at least disperses until it can all be held in the cold air. Blow on a cold window, and the water condenses on the window because the glass is colder than the dewpoint. At night, the air cools until it reaches its dewpoint. At that point, water starts falling out (condensing on the cold ground, my car, etc). This lowers the dewpoint of the air, and the air continues to cool. More water falls out. Etc. The enclosure itself will be warmer than the air, so it won't even get wet. Kinda like once the sun comes out and warms up the ground, the dew evaporates.
</physics lesson>

Aaaaaaanyways, I'm not sure about using silica gel. It's not like you're trying to keep the inside of a shoebox dry. You're pumping a lot of air through this enclosure, and you'll be swapping bucketloads of silica gel just to keep up with the regeneration needs. I don't know how humid it is around you, but I don't think corrosion will be much of an issue in any case.

 

[DeadlyAura]

Nothing is going to condense unless there's something that's colder than the dewpoint of the air. As the air goes through the enclosure, it heats up, but the dewpoint stays the same, since the water content stays the same. The cool air is above the dewpoint. The warm air is above the (same) dewpoint. The case is above the dewpoint. Nothing's going to condense.

<physics lesson>The reason you see your breath in the winter is because the outside air is below the dewpoint of the air you expel. Cold air can't hold as much water as warm air, so the water falls out....or at least disperses until it can all be held in the cold air. Blow on a cold window, and the water condenses on the window because the glass is colder than the dewpoint. At night, the air cools until it reaches its dewpoint. At that point, water starts falling out (condensing on the cold ground, my car, etc). This lowers the dewpoint of the air, and the air continues to cool. More water falls out. Etc. The enclosure itself will be warmer than the air, so it won't even get wet. Kinda like once the sun comes out and warms up the ground, the dew evaporates.
</physics lesson>

Ah... Now I understand what you are saying. I thought you were trying to contradict me. I understand now. What I am saying though is depending on where this guy lives, the outside temperature year round, and how cool it gets at night, this could happen. Unless he lives in Texas, it will at some point in the year, probably drop below the dew point. Because, it isn''t summer all year round.

Where you live OP? This would help us a great deal. What are the average temsp around there? Each season, daily and nightly. This would help us a great deal to determine what kind of humidity and condensation is going to take place in that case.

 

[mrweasel]

(1) oversized Cooler + (2) dryer vents (the kind with the cover and the flap) = Viola!

the cover will keep the rain/water from getting in an the cooler will disguise what's inside (well excpet for the electrical cord going inside

 

[macrospect]

I like the room airconditioner idea. Move the Cold radiator inside your case, and seal it completely. It's easy to totally seal a case, and room airconditioners can be had (5200BTU) for very cheap.

It will turn into a block of ice (literialy) if you do that. That is unless you have 0% humidity in the case!

 

[DeadlyAura]

(1) oversized Cooler + (2) dryer vents (the kind with the cover and the flap) = Viola!

the cover will keep the rain/water from getting in an the cooler will disguise what's inside (well excpet for the electrical cord going inside

Hes a hardcore folder. He has more than one box, that is why he is moving them outside. I don't think you will be able to fit them boxen in one cooler. Multiple maybe. Or a really really huge one.

 

[Mohonri]

It will turn into a block of ice (literialy) if you do that. That is unless you have 0% humidity in the case!

That's why window A/C units have drains--just run the drain out the bottom of the enclosure...

Since the point of the exercise is to get the computers out of the house (so they aren't contributing to A/C costs), putting them in a box with their own A/C seems a bit counter intuitive.

 

[BigDave]

I think you're mistaken. Condensation forms from warm moist air coming in contact with a cool surface. That's why water droplets form on your MtDew can. The only way to prevent condensation inside the case is to do one of two things. One, remove the moisture from the inside of the case with some type of dehumidifier (an A/C system would work great for that). Or two, keep the inside of the computer warmer than the surrounding air so that the water vapor in the air won't fall out.

Not if it is cooler inside the plexi than out. Condensation forms from warm airhitting cool air. The moisture in the warm air cools and CONDENSES into liquid droplets. That is why alot of cooling and air movement is necessary. Thick plexi won't do anything more than make the case stronger. Water won't get through the plastic so thicker won't be better. Plus, it has ventilation holes so the moisture would get in anyways if it were to get in at all. Thats why I would put the intake on teh bottom but elevated off the ground. There is very little chance of even rainwater to be sucked up off the ground with a conventional fan 6 inches away.

As long as teh cooling is good enough, you will not get condensation inside. Also known as the greenhouse effect.

 

[DeadlyAura]

I think you're mistaken. Condensation forms from warm moist air coming in contact with a cool surface. That's why water droplets form on your MtDew can. The only way to prevent condensation inside the case is to do one of two things. One, remove the moisture from the inside of the case with some type of dehumidifier (an A/C system would work great for that). Or two, keep the inside of the computer warmer than the surrounding air so that the water vapor in the air won't fall out.

You are correct on the condensation thing. However, like a Mt. Dew can, the water condenses on the outside because the inside is cooler. The warm air outside touches the cool surface of the can. That is why you want the inside of teh case to be cooler than the outside, so if the temperature drop to the dew point, it condenses outside the case and not inside.

 

[Mohonri]

You are correct on the condensation thing. However, like a Mt. Dew can, the water condenses on the outside because the inside is cooler. The warm air outside touches the cool surface of the can. That is why you want the inside of teh case to be cooler than the outside, so if the temperature drop to the dew point, it condenses outside the case and not inside.

There's a big, crucial difference between your can of Mt. Dew and this enclosure, however. That difference is that the air on the inside and the air on the outside are the same air, just at different temperatures. As long as the temperature on the inside and outside of the enclosure are above the dewpoint (and they always will be), there will be no condensation whatsoever. In or out.

The reason you get condensation on your can is because the can is below the dewpoint of the surrounding air. In this situation (with the computers, not the soda), nothing we're worried about will ever be below the dewpoint. BigDave is right. BTW, if you were to put an A/C unit on the enclosure, you could very well get condensation on the outside, if the enclosure gets colder than the dewpoint of the surrounding air.

 

[DeadlyAura]

I know, I understand that, I guess I'm just not understanding some people the way things are worded. I get what everyone is saying so I'm just gonna but out here. I got my point accross, and I think that we are all just furthering each others points in different words. So, the point got accross, and that is all I am worried about.

 

[cyks]

I guess I'm just not understanding some people the way things are worded.

Condensation is a warming process.



The inside (between the back of the motherboard and the case) is the only place where I believe condensation can form, but that is not likely to happen (but far from impossible) and the only problem will be from humidity. Are computers designed to withstand 90 - 100% humidity from the air?