The PSU Label Debate

[flexcore]

Iv'e been very pleased with my Seasonic X650. I build computers for people from time to time. They always want the cheapest PSU available. I started refusing to build them the computer if they wouldn't get a solid PSU.

 

[PersonalJ]

Except for those PSUs with fake 80Plus badges.



It wasn't just their low end, but even their (at the time) highest end TruePower and early TruePower 2 PSUs that were also affected. Oh yeah, almost all motherboard manufacturers were affected too, so it isn't as if Antec intentionally did this. Well, they probably intentionally tried to use less costly parts, but I'm sure as a company that stands behind their products with good warranty service, they very likely NEVER intentionally made their units to not meet spec.



This is the unfortunate truth. Of course enthusiasts in forums swing 180º, with otherwise decent PSUs being called "crap" just because the latest/greatest does 0.005% less ripple.

I swear... tech forums seem to attract the obsessive types.



As opposed to another certain processor company *cough Intel cough* that sold several boat loads of super duper high gigahurtz "P4 class Celeron" processors to unsuspecting consumers who thought they were getting a nice, fast system.

I had an Antec truepower die on me, Antec replaced it with a new Antec Truepower New.

 

[rudy]

Oh come on, people would not want to buy their products over this, gimme a break. Its the fail of a few individual(s?), what the heck does that have to do with CM in general? I can hear the cries already, "but what about the misdirection on something like a 500W implication on said PS?! Please, if you dont know that everyone is fudging the numbers a little bit, you are surely just a moron and havent done your research. Since the beginning of PS time, they have overrated their products.

It wasnt until there was a higher end enthusiast section did they start "underrating" their products to allow for wiggle room at the high end. Was this likely done to be "HONEST", I highly suspect not. This was done because at the high end, a user WILL very likely use that much power and I doubt they want a lot of people pushing their products to an area where they will in fact fail, and yet be within their claimed ratings.

The truth, just about every company out there is doing just enough to make the product perform as needed and not a damn bit more. They are in fact a business and I dont blame them. Much less CM.

Personally I have found their products fine, I read the ratings, I read reviews, and make the best decision I can. Unfortunately not everyone does... To each their own.

This is most accurate. Almost every company now is not even much of what you call a company. It is more like a couple of people who say we would like something oh like this that we drew on a napkin, they hand it over to a chinese company which does all the engineering and production, and packaging then ships it to the USA then buy some advertising and send it to some review sites. What does this mean? It means any company can have hit or miss products no matter how shitty or great that company is. We all know there are only like 5 PSU manufacturers that do pretty much all the PSUs for every company out there. It also means that companies really do not have a ton of control over quality but since they have almost no overhead or risk since they do NOTHING themself except draw on napkins will getting piss drunk they jsut replace any unit that goes bad and consider it part of the operating costs. We also all know everyone lies on specs from LCDs, to CPUs can't rate anything honestly you just have to see alot of reviews. I always just go way overkill on speed and power for every thing to make sure I am OK because you cannot trust anything.

At the end of the day CM is a shady company but then again who isnt, isnt antec basically anandtech? Funny how that place pretty much built a brand and a review site at the same time. Nothing shady there....OCZ has been dropping crap on customers readily from nand switches to the NIA

 

[Phoenix333]

Not taking CM's side, but do you recall a certain processor company *cough AMD cough* labeling their processors with numbers that weren't their actual speed? It's just marketing 101 and it always will be. These companies feel they can't make the all mighty dollar with an honest product.

I'm not concerned with model number labeling schemes so much as performance and quality of build and an accurate description of a product's capabilities at the technical level. AMD never said an Athlon XP 1800+ processor ran at 1.8 GHz. The actual clock speed was always supplied and (surprise) that's what the chip ran at. If someone is knowledgeable enough to assemble a PC at the component level they should have enough sense to read the freaking white sheet. AMD did not mislead anyone.

That's not the situation with these PSU's. Anyone that knows basic electricity knows how to calculate wattage, but anyone that is literate knows how to read a rating sticker where it says "max combined wattage not to exceed" when dealing with different voltage rails. Obviously CM's marketing people didn't consult their engineers but they apparently didn't bother to read the PSU rating stickers either. Calling your 450 watt PSU a model 500TX (or whatever) is one thing, but claiming your 450 watt PSU can do something that's out of spec is another, and telling people incorrectly how to read a PSU information label could lead to someone accepting their information in good faith, doing something that causes the PSU to overload based on that information, resulting in a lawsuit, which is why the video was pulled since it would be construed in court as false advertising and a violation of consumer protection laws.

That's not marketing, that's negligence. Marketing can be construed as "BS that makes people want to buy your stuff". Negligence is "BS that results in someone hurting themselves and/or someone else and/or causing property damage". Legally there is a difference.

 

[[Spectre]]

We all know there are only like 5 PSU manufacturers that do pretty much all the PSUs for every company out there. It also means that companies really do not have a ton of control over quality but since they have almost no overhead or risk since they do NOTHING themself except draw on napkins will getting piss drunk they jsut replace any unit that goes bad and consider it part of the operating costs.

There are significantly more than 5 The amount of actual engineering done outside of the actual OEM by brands however is extremely minimal.

At the end of the day CM is a shady company but then again who isnt, isnt antec basically anandtech? Funny how that place pretty much built a brand and a review site at the same time. Nothing shady there....OCZ has been dropping crap on customers readily from nand switches to the NIA

No, Antec and Anandtech are separate entities.

 

[rudy]

There are significantly more than 5 The amount of actual engineering done outside of the actual OEM by brands however is extremely minimal.



No, Antec and Anandtech are separate entities.

Perhaps you are knowledgable in this area Paul Johnson can you tell us more? How many PSU makers are there and what market share do they each have or some measure of their production. I am just saying the last time I read an article on PSUs it stated that a very small number of companies do the actual production of PSUs for the many many PSU brands out there.

Also my statement about antec comes from something I heard from someone whom used to do reviews for Anandtech and even they seemed secrative about it. Maybe I am totally off but do you know about the history of Antec could you tell us about the major players or people involved, be they Executive or controlling interests. This person stated that the owner of Anandtech was also a major player in a well known PC components brand. We can only asume that person is Anand and that brand is antec. But interestingly when I goto Antecs web site unlike most companies they seem to make NO mention of their board of directors or major investors.

 

[[Spectre]]

Perhaps you are knowledgable in this area Paul Johnson can you tell us more? How many PSU makers are there and what market share do they each have or some measure of their production. I am just saying the last time I read an article on PSUs it stated that a very small number of companies do the actual production of PSUs for the many many PSU brands out there.

Can I list all of them? Probably not since there are so many but a few of the ones you might see in enthusiast type applications:

FSP Group
Delta
Enhance
AcBel
Sesonic
CWT
Enermax
Andyson
Topower
SuperFlower
Forepoint/Fortrex
Zippy
Lite-On
Greatwall
Win-Tact
Sirfa/Sirtec
3Y
Achme
I HORNG POWER CO (ATNG)
HEC/HEROLCHI ELECTRONIC CO LTD/Compucase
Etasis
Hipro
In Win
Newton Power
Seventeam
Meanwell

and that is missing a few other companies that don't make "garbage" power supplies and the garbage OEM's like Leadman, Youngyear, Sunpro, Keymouse, Solytech, L&C, etc.

Also my statement about antec comes from something I heard from someone whom used to do reviews for Anandtech and even they seemed secrative about it. Maybe I am totally off but do you know about the history of Antec could you tell us about the major players or people involved, be they Executive or controlling interests. This person stated that the owner of Anandtech was also a major player in a well known PC components brand. We can only asume that person is Anand and that brand is antec. But interestingly when I goto Antecs web site unlike most companies they seem to make NO mention of their board of directors or major investors.

And your source would be? Chris Katzer worked for Planet3Dnow then Anandtech before going to FSP and then Antec. That was within the last couple of years. Anand started Anandtech when he was 15 in '97. Just because Katzer went from working as a reviewer to working for FSP and then Antec does not meant Antec started Anandtech. Actually by that logic it should FSP that started Anandtech. Many PC component brands do not list their their board of directors or major investors on their website and are privately held, maybe you should pull their regulatory filings which list them instead? Just because they both start with an A and end in an "ek" sound in english doesn't make them related.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Paul is correct. The only relationship between Antec and Anandtech is Antec's current PM for PSU's used to be the PSU reviewer for Anandtech. He was also reviewer for Planet3DNow and used to work for Amacrox (EU division of FSP).