The Backup Project thread

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YeOldeStonecat

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I thought I had started a thread on this about 6 months ago...but I couldn't find it, maybe I was dreaming.

Anyways...as some of you probably know, my experience is in the SMB world...most of my clients have 1, 2, maybe 3 servers. So my backup methods have been pretty boring and traditional....either local tape backup on each server, or one of the Dell PowerVault removable disk drives in each server. Simple local backups.

I have 2 larger clients that are growing more. One of which now has 6x servers due to growth.

1x Proliant DL360 G5 running SBS2K3, 70 gig and 160 gig on MSA1000 SAN
1x Proliant DL320 G5 running 2K3r2 on a 70 and 160 gigs on the same MSA1000 SAN
1x Proliant DL320 G5 running 2K3r2 for Terminal Server with pair of local 120 gig SAS drives
1x Dell PowerEdge 1600sc with approx 160 gigs of local drives
1x Dell PowerEdge 1600sc with approx 60 gigs local C and 200 gigs from the MSA1000 SAN running their database server
1x small box running a linux firewall,

It's actually this network here that I posted pics of last year.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1273396

Right now..backups...one of the older Dells there has a tape drive, backs up itself...and the other big old Dell. First Dell is their primary database application, other Dell is their primary storage.."the network drive" for all the MS Office stuff.

Other servers do backup to shares on other servers...and I manually pull those to tape once in a while.

The Dell servers will be replaced over the next year. I'm thinking of introducing a pair of decent 2U servers..and begin using ESXi.

What I would like to do is simply the backup, get a big NAS unit in there..and have backup agents backup each server onto the NAS.

I'm reading about more and more products that backup "images" of entire servers, so that you can do full restores..sort of like restoring a VMWare image. Zenith Info for one example. Other options that some of this newer backup software does is bare metal restores....restore that backup image to totally different hardware. And other things like CDP.

Also I'm going to read up on Microsofts System Center Data Protection Manager
http://www.microsoft.com/systemcenter/dpm/flash/demo/index.html

Paragon
http://www.paragon-software.com/bus...d=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=-&__utmk=109976453

Also I've read some good things about ShadowProtect
http://www.storagecraft.com/products/ShadowProtectServer/

Just looking for peoples experiences with this stuff, opinions, input, blah blah yada yada

I have my total used disk space for now...with this CDP stuff, and compression and how it only backs up changed files..there's gotta be some formula to project total disk space of your NAS to cover what you have now and leave elbow room for another 3-5 years.

I'm wanting a NAS box you hang off the network...not one you hang off of another server. Why? Dunno...but I can be convinced.

//pours a pint of Guinness
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
I'm wanting a NAS box you hang off the network...not one you hang off of another server. Why? Dunno...but I can be convinced.
Click to expand...

Microsoft DPM can we a pain to setup, but is a pretty solid product, here is our argument, do you want to backup at file level, or volume level?

Storagecraft only backups volume levels (block level backups on drive basis only) while MS DPM can do file level.

I work with the storagecraft box's if your interested pm me
 
If they use MSSQL for their databases, I would imagine that DPM will probably be the most cost effective solution. I'm using one of the Dell DPM servers and it's great. The one major limitation is the 15 minute snapshots, but if you're using it to backup a database, as long as you have the log files save you can restore to pretty much any point in time.

Since the DPM powervault is just another windows server (W2k3R2 storage server) you can iscsi storage or regular DAS. Plus it's an all in one package.
 
I think you would be hard pressed to beat this raid floppy array backup!

FDD_RAID.jpg


:)

I wanted to try that Windows Solution. I am sure you could backup system images to another Dell SAN/NAS and then Tape Loader it =)
 
The database that runs their primary LOB app is Progress, the application is Suncoast Solutions. Also has a component that runs on .NET.

SBS naturally has Exchange.

SBS has the native MSDE instances, also they have MAS90 and BlackBaud on their accounting server...MAS90 the smaller version that's on MSDE.
 
Weird, Dell took the PV DP500 off their site (It was their DPM solution.)
 
Same story as OP, all SMBs mainly running SBS with tape drives connected to some servers for backing them up every night (user puts tape in and takes the old one home).

Backups are run by Veritas/Symantec Backup Exec for Windows Server and live states with Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery. But some servers are running the built in SBS backup and Drive Snapshot.
 
It seems Microsofts product is geared more specifically towards backing up databases? Not initially a "server backup product"?

Coming down the stretch here....I'm leaning towards using a Dell PowerVault NF500, running Windows Storage Server 2K3 R2. Budgetwise having 6x 750 gig drives in 1 big fat RAID 5 array fits for them.

My clients approved budget for the entire backup solution is $10K (including my time)

Software wise, I'm leaning towards 5x copies of Paragon Softwares Drive Backup 9.0 Server Edition.

What I'm still pondering over...is how to satisfy the "offsite" or "removable" component.
Quite a bit of data...so I'm not sure of an internet based offsite like Mozy or Carbon or Iron Mountain.

What are some peoples approaches to satisfying the removable copy rule of thumb when doing a NAS based backup solution?
 
YeOlde an option which may not be at the same scale as needed (may blow budget as well)....

So I use Acronis for my images (want to try Paragon, have you tried it yet?) it does compress the data a little bit, so an 80GB image is really like 60 or so GB. So maybe if you put a server up in the datacenter upstairs (can be homebuilt with just a bunch of drives) and use something like Logmein Backup, to backup like a weekly image of each server to the main base.

Another cheaper option is dont you do weekly visits for the service contract? Plug in a USB RD1000 backup and pull it home with you.

Or tape loader and have em put it in a safe?

Online backups would be very hard with the server images, as each time you bcakup will be backing up a full backup not incremement.
 
Would a hosted solution work???

It costs $X/month... They send you a NAS, they setup the backworks, and it backs the servers up. Then they transfer those backups to their location for offsite storage.

This has taken a load off my shoulders. I don't have to worry about backups anymore.
 
Whelp..going down the home stretch here....
I downloaded,installed, and have been dorking around with..Paragon Softwares Backup 9.0 Server. I installed it on one of our spare servers that does WSUS and Eset update mirror duties. Backups of the approx 20 gigs of C drive data take approx 1 hour across our hundred meg LAN. The backup image is just under 16 gigs in size..so it's getting the typical ~25% compression. Restoration of files is fairly straightforward....you just browse your saved images and plug 'em out.

Also appears you can centrally manage a bunch of the Backup 9 servers with one console, which will be handy.

So ordering those, and a Dell PowerVault NF600 network storage box. Pair of 160 gig RAID 1 drives for Windows Storage Server 2003 R2, and 4x 1TB drives RAID 5 for the storage. I'm traditionally not a fan of SATA drives for "servers"..but since this is a storage server, even on a gigabit LAN shouldn't be a performance hinderance.

Now to fine tune the offsite copy.
 
:) Let me know how automated it goes, also what your costs/month are.

Once I figured in the costs of new servers, warranties, multiple sites and servers and internet connections, it made more sense to go with something hosted...
 
Yeah I agree...a hosted solution would benefit most places. But as their consultant who visits there several times/week...and for backing up all of this amount of storage...I wanted to keep it all their equipment, and in house. ;)

The Dell NAS box I configured...retail price about $5,400 bucks...upgrades being a quad core Xeon, 4 gigs of RAM, Intel Pro NIC over the onboard Broadcoms, and the rack mount kit. She's 8 bays...I left 2 of the bays blank for "add some more drives down the road if needed". The 4x 1TB drives in RAID 5 should yield me approx 3 TB of storage..which should hold up well for at least several years.

Adding up their current servers drive space...
Total capacity is ~ 670 gigs
Total USED space is ~ 250 gigs. Gimme the compression...I should utilize just under 200 gigs per nightly backup. So a full week will consume almost 1 TB.

Total cost (well..total retail price) for the backup software...6x copies of the DB 9.0, plus upgrade assurance, plus extended tech support...just under $2,400 bucks.

They had about 10,500 approved for upgrading their backup system. I believe I'll snag a pair of external USB passport drives for a few removable copies too...treat those like an EOM tape (end of month)

After looking at the fact that they have about 200 gigs worth of backup data per backup job, I believe I will use the hosted service we provide for our smaller clients...RBackup, and do a "once a week" offsite backup across the internet.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Yeah I agree...a hosted solution would benefit most places. But as their consultant who visits there several times/week...and for backing up all of this amount of storage...I wanted to keep it all their equipment, and in house. ;)

The Dell NAS box I configured...retail price about $5,400 bucks...upgrades being a quad core Xeon, 4 gigs of RAM, Intel Pro NIC over the onboard Broadcoms, and the rack mount kit. She's 8 bays...I left 2 of the bays blank for "add some more drives down the road if needed". The 4x 1TB drives in RAID 5 should yield me approx 3 TB of storage..which should hold up well for at least several years.

Adding up their current servers drive space...
Total capacity is ~ 670 gigs
Total USED space is ~ 250 gigs. Gimme the compression...I should utilize just under 200 gigs per nightly backup. So a full week will consume almost 1 TB.

Total cost (well..total retail price) for the backup software...6x copies of the DB 9.0, plus upgrade assurance, plus extended tech support...just under $2,400 bucks.

They had about 10,500 approved for upgrading their backup system. I believe I'll snag a pair of external USB passport drives for a few removable copies too...treat those like an EOM tape (end of month)

After looking at the fact that they have about 200 gigs worth of backup data per backup job, I believe I will use the hosted service we provide for our smaller clients...RBackup, and do a "once a week" offsite backup across the internet.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, so you're still using a hosted solution to move offsite then?
That's where the recurring cost bit me in the butt was all the offsite stuff (having to establish new server closets or something, internet connections, etc) for offsite locations.

Advantage of the hosted solution I'm using is it's incremental. Which means, at max, only a few Gigs is getting transferred off site every day. I have it set at every 15 minutes though, so I have lots more restore options :p
 
TechieSooner said:
Ahhh, so you're still using a hosted solution to move offsite then?
Click to expand...

Yeah I'll probably do that for some redundancy of offsite backup. We purchase our own backup software, RBackup, and built our own NAS box which we keep in the data center upstairs (on multiple 40 gig bandwidth). We usually use that solution for smaller clients.
 
I can't remember what IBM calls it now but we use a product that use to be called FilesX. It is for continues data replication across lan, wan, vpn you name it. It does right down to the block level backups and will also do bare metal restores.

We are looking at it for a new client that has 3 sql servers, and half a dozen other servers along with it to backup over a vpn connection.

We were talking with them the other day and they have right now either a 30 day or 60 day trial. If I find it I'll put it backup here. Might be worth a try if they have a backup datacenter or offsite to your company
 
I saw the pics of your Netshelter and realized you get a heart attack and die if you saw my server room.:eek:
 
YeOld........how are you liking Paragon? I've stuck with Acronis for a while, but for 1 SBS 2003, half the cost for an equivalent product would be plenty desirable.
 
Working well...for each server, the backup routine is pretty cool. I've yet to explore the disaster recovery options of bringing back an entire image, but I have tested retrieving individual files from a backup and it worked.

I've yet to dig deep into the Enterprise Edition management console, so far from what I've seen...it doesn't display "status" of all the servers and their backups..which is what I was sort of hoping for, one centralized console to monitor the backups of all the servers. But I can't say for sure yet....have to fiddle with it a bit more, and the time spent at this particular client over the past week has been spent doing other things..so it may take me a few more weeks to get into this management console of the EBE product.

It does have some cool features I have yet to try out...such as some services which allow you to "burn recovery CDs" from other machines on the network. Say one server only has a CD or DVD...no CDR or DVDR....you can install a service on another server that happens to have a burner..and utilize that from the machine without one.

I will state that their support is awesome...as I have questions, I fire one off to the guy I've been working with and I get rather quick detailed helpful replies from him...not some canned reply.
 
Paragon support was much better then Acronis.

YeOlde when ya got some time to remote me in to take a peak?
 
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