System Comparisons/Results: Thoughts?

I

Infaustium

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
166
I'll try to make this as to-the-point as possible.

Recently built a new system that I felt should out-perform my other system (which is still up-and-running) by a relatively noticeable margin. Was not expecting like double the performance, but the results have been a bit confusing.

Initial main rig:
- ASUS Rampage Formula
- E8600 (3.33)
- 4GB DDR2
- GTX 280
- HX620
- 1920x1200 res

New main rig:
- Gigabyte EX58-UD5 (BIOS F7)
- i7 950 (3.07)
- 6GB DDR3 1600
- 5870 Vapor-X (Catalyst 10.3)
- HX620
- 1920x1200 res

Long story relatively short: I'm not noticing a large increase in performance in general tasks, multitasking or gaming.

Though the i7 950 is at basically the same core speed as the E8600, being quad core (8 virtual cores), combined with 6GB DDR3 RAM and the 5870, which I thought was being bottle-necked by my E8600 but is running relatively the same in the new system, I was expecting quite an increase in performance.

That, however, has not been the case.

All hardware is solid, no defects, and all BIOS settings optimal and where they should be, with no CPU throttling, all RAM detected and working, and all voltages where they should be.

I'm a hardcore gamer (visually intensive games; FPS), as well as graphic artist (Photoshop, Flash etc.) and I notice no difference most of the time with load times of everything from opening programs, including multiple programs, to load times of games/maps in games or game performance over my other system.

I updated my BIOS to F7, since that's the revision where support for the new i7's such as the 950 began, and seemed to helped many people with unleashing more performance.

I do have multi(hyper)threading on, which in the past, I've (and others) have always known can actually cause slow-down with certain apps, and even affect certain games negatively. I worked with it disabled, but it seems to make no difference.

I do not OC anymore, and believe more in just buying hardware that's clocked higher, in order to avoid the many complications and longevity issues that can arise with OC'ing. A high-end dual or quad core at 3GHz+ is plenty of power/speed.

Again, I certainly wasn't expecting something like double the performance, but certainly more than what it seems I'm getting at the moment, which does seem almost any faster in any way than my other system.

Any helpful thoughts on why this would be the case? It just doesn't seem to make sense to me, and even in gaming, the 5870's performance is less than my GTX 280 much of the time, though I don't feel it's an issue with the hardware itself.

All around, I'm just not noticing any real improvements here, and aside from the time and money spent "upgrading" to the "current gen" of what should be "running things best", it also is a potential disappointment for the major upcoming multitasking planned for A/V work that I've been doing on dual core/DDR2 systems until now.

Remember, I said any helpful thoughts/feedback ;) ...(and nothing regarding OC'ing, please).
 
For one you should have noticed an increase in performance gaming wise going from a 260 to a 5870, not sure why you don't think you upgraded there. As per the 950, no idea why you bought it when you could have used the money you saved getting a 920 and bought an SSD which leads me to my next point. Nothing is going to load faster if you are still bottlenecked by the same harddrive. You did not mention it so I am assuming you kept your old one. The i7 itself is a big upgrade if you do things that are heavily multicored like BFBC2 which I've been told is extremely multithreaded. But on your main point about no difference in load times including programs and maps, that is the hard drive. Shoulda saved money from the 950 for an SSD which would have made your build complete.

EDIT: After reading a post I realized that you said 280 not 260, so its not as big of a leap in GPU performance as I thought (although it is still a decent upgrade).
 
Last edited:
yup... SSD + RAMDisk will make all your general tasks fly.
 
I7 system with a standard HDD is like pairing a supercharged V8 with a 4 speed automatic tranny from a ford fiesta.
 
Several points need to be addressed to resolve this issue you're experiancing...

Here's where I feel you went wrong:
  • 950 was a waste 920 is cheaper and just as fast ($$ saved)
  • An SSD C: should have been used if you want a general usage gain. ($$ better spent)
  • While 280 is plenty fast enough for the single monitor & res. I'm quite confident that not only is the 5870 running cooler, but at less power draw as well. ($$ better spent and saved otherwise a wash)

My Observations:
>> If you weren't taxing the 4gb dual channel ddr2 you're not going to tax 6gb triple channel DDR3. How was your RAM usage before?

>> i7's on a single core aren't special...Do this transcode a BD, run AV scan and play a recent game and tell me you still aren't impressed.

>>Start adding some monitors to the set up and I'm sure you'll see where that 5870 flat out smokes the 280. Otherwise aside from the power/heat savings & DX11 support, it was a waste of cash as well.

Suggestions:
  1. You could try and sell the 950 but at this point you might as well hold on to it. Your choice.
  2. Buy an SSD for your OS/Program drive.
  3. If you're a heavy P-Shop guy Peel off 1.5-2gb for a RAMdrive Swap file.
  4. Upgrade/add monitor A 30" or eyefinity will help you see a difference. It will also help with my next suggestion.
  5. Do more multi-tasking. People are so used to using shit system that they have a bad habit of "over-manageing" PC resources.

See my rig below for reference. This is the real beauty of the i7 and W7 I leave all kinds of stuff on all the time. Browsers, Media players, ACAD, outlook, RDC windows, Hyper-V MGR, Steam, live mesh, dropbox, anydvd, etc...Then I just minimize it all and fire up a game. No performance issues.
In fact the only 2 real issues I have is my 5870 and the case. While it does get it done, I "think" would benefit from either a second in xfire or a 5970. The case, while sweet, doesn't provide enough airflow in its current unmolested form.
 
Some interesting feedback... really focusing on the HDD. I gave it thought, so I will probably move to that next.

Thanks for all this, and I'll try to respond as in-depth as I can right now.

Currently running Seagate, 7200rpm.

However, running a SSD is not necessary to see large improvements between two systems such as this, to which many others can attest. Sure, it would definitely speed things up, but it's not necessary to see big results.

- I do not feel the 950 was by any means a "waste". You have to understand, I do not OC anymore, and the stock speed of the 920 is not as fast. I will not run a CPU lower than a 3GHz clock, ever, but do not OC anymore. So, that means if I want a higher-clocked CPU, that I buy what is already clocked higher. I'm just of that opinion these days.

- Regarding gaming, I've said it countless times, no, there are very few games that take advantage of a quad core. However, it helps "by proxy", *by making sure your GPU is not bottle-necked*.

- The 5870 should be a giant leap in performance, especially when paired with an i7 quad and 6GB DDR3. So far, that's not been my experience, with the exception of Crysis, which has definitely been kicked-up a notch, yet even that, not all the time.

Yes, it certainly draws less power and puts out much less heat, to be sure. Unfortunately, I feel part of the problem with the 5870 right now is the drivers. They do not play nice with Mass Effect 2 at all, especially when AA is enable via the CCC, which you have to do, due to there being no in-game AA.

However, though you would see just how powerful the 5870 truly is even more on even larger resolutions, anyone who has upgraded successfully will tell you that even @ 1920 res, the 5870 smokes everything they've run prior.

There's absolutely no reason I'd sell the 950, as it's a beast of a CPU, nor do I feel the 5870 was a "waste of cash" either, due to the fact that at any resolution, it should absolutely trounce the GTX 280. But, I have to figure why currently it is not.

The GTX 280 is actually not quite "plenty fast enough" anymore @ 1920 res to max everything without getting lag with all eye candy cranked. It does very well, and can almost max everything, but the fps drops, of course.

The whole point of a more powerful GPU is to get your minimum fps higher, which makes for a much better gaming experience, obviously. So it's not at all a "waste" at 1920 res, as the 5870 allows for all visuals to be cranked, and should still maintain higher fps, including min fps, than the 280.

As for the i7's on single core, I understand what you mean, obviously. However, when opening/using large programs such as Photoshop, it actually does utilize more than one core. But I completely understand what you're saying about people "over-managing", and testing doing even more multitasking, which I do indeed believe will then really show how the 950 and i7's shine.

Well, definitely some interesting feedback. Not sure the HDD is quite that big of an issue, given the performance increase in gaming that others have gotten running lesser systems with a 5870 from the 260's or 280's. But, I will continue testing more games, more apps and more multitasking (heavily) and see.

Oh, about the RAM... yeah, all 4GB were being pushed hard by both games and other apps I use, so the 6GB of DDR3 should also be showing more benefit.

Don't get me wrong, no doubt, this system is faster than my other. I'm just not noticing the performance increase with the 5870 that I should be, though that could be a driver issue, and some general tasking. Definitely some, but we'll see what happens the more I test and "break things in"...

...and I'll switch over to a SSD some time in the near future, as it certainly would be a good idea; was just saying that it's not necessary to see increases with this kind of hardware upgrade.

- I've almost been wondering still if HyperThreading, like in the old days, is slowing things down a bit. It used to be guilty of that. Perhaps another setting in my BIOS as well, though I cant imagine what at this point.

My DRAM freq is showing at 539.7... does that seem "off" to anyone?

Again, appreciate the feedback, and just giving back my experiences and opinions as well.


no_control said:
Several points need to be addressed to resolve this issue you're experiancing...

Here's where I feel you went wrong:
  • 950 was a waste 920 is cheaper and just as fast ($$ saved)
  • An SSD C: should have been used if you want a general usage gain. ($$ better spent)
  • While 280 is plenty fast enough for the single monitor & res. I'm quite confident that not only is the 5870 running cooler, but at less power draw as well. ($$ better spent and saved otherwise a wash)

My Observations:
>> If you weren't taxing the 4gb dual channel ddr2 you're not going to tax 6gb triple channel DDR3. How was your RAM usage before?

>> i7's on a single core aren't special...Do this transcode a BD, run AV scan and play a recent game and tell me you still aren't impressed.

>>Start adding some monitors to the set up and I'm sure you'll see where that 5870 flat out smokes the 280. Otherwise aside from the power/heat savings & DX11 support, it was a waste of cash as well.

Suggestions:
  1. You could try and sell the 950 but at this point you might as well hold on to it. Your choice.
  2. Buy an SSD for your OS/Program drive.
  3. If you're a heavy P-Shop guy Peel off 1.5-2gb for a RAMdrive Swap file.
  4. Upgrade/add monitor A 30" or eyefinity will help you see a difference. It will also help with my next suggestion.
  5. Do more multi-tasking. People are so used to using shit system that they have a bad habit of "over-manageing" PC resources.

See my rig below for reference. This is the real beauty of the i7 and W7 I leave all kinds of stuff on all the time. Browsers, Media players, ACAD, outlook, RDC windows, Hyper-V MGR, Steam, live mesh, dropbox, anydvd, etc...Then I just minimize it all and fire up a game. No performance issues.
In fact the only 2 real issues I have is my 5870 and the case. While it does get it done, I "think" would benefit from either a second in xfire or a 5970. The case, while sweet, doesn't provide enough airflow in its current unmolested form.
Click to expand...
 
I'm a hardcore gamer (visually intensive games; FPS), as well as graphic artist (Photoshop, Flash etc.) and I notice no difference most of the time with load times of everything from opening programs, including multiple programs, to load times of games/maps in games or game performance over my other system.
Click to expand...

These are all things that dictated by hdd. Go run a benchmark for one of your games on each system, and then you should see the difference between the systems.
 
The performance you're probably expecting from the 5870 would make you happier matched with a 4ghz cpu. Even though you don't oc and there's nothing wrong with that :) Just saying though.
 
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