Speaker & Headphone recommendations

[robodude666]

Hey guys,

I've been crawling through the forums on and off for the past few months and am very impressed with the level of knowledge I've seen. I have been chatting with the good ol' Empty_Quarter for a while on YIM and he got me sold on the idea of a sound system. I am currently using Sennheiser HD 515s (which he sold me the idea of as well).

Before I get into the main point of the topic I'd like to slightly introduce myself in terms of audio. I am somewhat new to the high-end audio world. For pretty much my entire life until march 2008, when I got my HD 515s, I've been using basic cheap speakers or headphones (Dell 2.1s, sony $19.99 headphones, cheapest logitech gaming headset, etc). I listen to music all the time on my computer and own a Cowon A2 (amazing little bugger). I can't identify a C note but I've been able to lately tell the difference between a song playing at 320Kbps and 128Kbps. Most of my collection is low-quality WMAs, but I will be rebuying my favorite albums in high-quality (whenever I can find a place that sells high-quality music downloads. Might just buy the ~30 albums I suppose).

A little more about me: I am a web developer. I also enjoy tinkering with electronics (Going for bachelors in EET). I own a pretty good gaming PC, a MacBook and a PowerMac G5 (I love Apples and will be getting an iMac sometime in August possibly). I am somewhat of a perfectionist (I cleaned my room last night because I couldn't fall asleep. Then I cleaned it again this afternoon. I can be annoyed when something is misaligned even by a few pixels etc.).

So, a few days ago I was talking with Empty and he got me interested in getting my own stereo system. At first I thought of a simple setup:

Klipsh B-2 Bookshelf Loudspeaker
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/b-2.aspx

Klipsch Sub-10 Subwoofer
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/synergy-sub-10.aspx

harman/kardon AVR 146
http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.aspx?cat=REC&sType=C&prod=AVR+146

After some long hard though, and Empty drooling over these speakers I got interested in the following setup:

Klipsch RB-51 Bookshelf Loudspeaker
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rb-51.aspx

BIC Acoustech H-100 Subwoofer
http://www.acoustechspeakers.com/showpage.php?brand=1&type=8&spkrID=26

harman/kardon AVR 146
http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.aspx?cat=REC&sType=C&prod=AVR+146

Budget wise I am not too concerned until it gets way too high. Either of these setup seems possible for under $1,000 which is fine by me considering what I get.

Now, my question to you guys is: Do you think that this would be a good setup for me? Or do you think it is a little over-the-top for me? Would you think I should just go with the Klipsch RB-51s + AVR 146 (or 147 for $150-175 on ebay), or do you have any other recommendations for me?

If you recommend something a little more expensive than I have listed above I may consider it if quality/feature wise it is worse it. Otherwise I'd prefer to stay in the same price range ($200-350 for speakers, $200-300 for sub, and $100-200 for receiver). I am somewhat fixed on the harman AVR 146/147/247 receiver, but I will consider others if they have a similar style (I really like the look of the harman). Empty recommended onkyo receivers as well but I seem to like the harman a little more, especially since I don't really want uber high-end setup and I don't mind no component -> hdmi output.

As a second question, I am considering getting new headphones for my Cowon A2 (soon to be a Cowon A3 probably). I am currently using Razer Pro|Tone m250s which work great for $10 off ebay but are a little lacking in omph for me, not to mention the clip broke. Empty suggested that I get the AD700s or DT770s. He also mentioned the AKG K 701s which I really am liking, especially for $245 shipped off newegg. Empty says that the AKG K 701s are a little big to be portable, but they will be on my head majority of the time. Although they do look a lot larger than my HD 515s.

I will be using these headphones for my media player, music on my PC at night, as well as gaming at night (don't want to disturb people). Basically they would function as replacements for my HD 515s + be used for media player. Which of the 3 listed above would you say are the best for me, or are there any others you'd recommend?

Looking forward to your replies,
-robodude666

 

[spaceman]

Any chance that you might prefer spending it all on headphones?

I would get some Yuin ok3 $89 , there is also ok1 $230 and ok2 $169 for portable. They are full range earbuds that are getting rave reviews in the portable section on head-fi.

IF you decide to go headphone only, the 701 is fine for home use. Portable it is NOT.

If it was my $$ I would look for a Stax Lambda normal and a SRD-7. These are electrostat headspeakers that do everything well. Tops for gaming and movies though. Really fast response with the largest sound stage I have yet heard on headphones. $300-500 and you need a speaker amp to drive them.

I would avoid HK and Onkyo for receivers. They are ok but the lowly $120 sherwood 6500 I have currently does better for 2 channel stereo. I am upgrading to bpa-1 monoblocks but will keep the 6500 for HT use upstairs.

AV123 X-series speakers will provide you with better sound than the Klipsch. There are several other speaker companies that deserve a look too. Av123 is just my personal favorite.

 

[robodude666]

Hey spaceman,

Thanks for the reply! I guess I should of mentioned I hate in-ear earphones. I want headphones with muffs on them, or some sort of wrap-around/clip on headphones. I tried in-ear headphones but they simply hurt my ears too much to enjoy the music.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8868/72001379pt8.jpg

um, those Stax SRD-7s don't look portable... I guess they aren't supposed to be, huh?

Why would you avoid HR and Onkyo receivers? I've heard a lot of things about them and seen many happy [H] users with them.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look at sherwood and AV123.

If anyone else has any comments please feel free to share!

-robodude666

 

[phide]

Most of my collection is low-quality WMAs, but I will be rebuying my favorite albums in high-quality (whenever I can find a place that sells high-quality music downloads. Might just buy the ~30 albums I suppose).

Amazon tends to be pretty reliable. Mostly, we're talking LAME 3.97-encoded MP3s at the V0 setting, which yields VBR files around ~245kbps. Transparent for most.

I am somewhat of a perfectionist (I cleaned my room last night because I couldn't fall asleep. Then I cleaned it again this afternoon. I can be annoyed when something is misaligned even by a few pixels etc.).

Sounds like you and I need to start some sort of support group (you likely have an obsessive compulsive personality, by the way)

...He also mentioned the AKG K 701s which I really am liking, especially for $245 shipped off newegg. Empty says that the AKG K 701s are a little big to be portable, but they will be on my head majority of the time.

My personal opinion? Don't worry too much about the size vs. portability equation, because portability is a very relative concept. For the K701s, though, you'll want respectable amplification. Your Cowon will drive them, but the K701s are a bit too clumsy and inefficient to be driven well by most DAPs. Very decent portable headphone amps can be pretty inexpensive, though.

Now, some people might think you look like a goon wearing giant white headphones on the subway or what have you, but you'll also get immediate respect from those who know sound.

 

[robodude666]

Hey phide,

Thanks for the reply!

Amazon tends to be pretty reliable. Mostly, we're talking LAME 3.97-encoded MP3s at the V0 setting, which yields VBR files around ~245kbps. Transparent for most.

Amazon is very good from what I hear (pun not indented), but most (if not all) of the stuff I want is in MP3 @ 256 kbps. Unless this is higher quality than I am thinking of. Last I've heard, 320Kbps is the best you'll get out of an MP3. Should I just buy the physical CD for $1 more and rip it to FLAC/Lossless with iTunes or some other softwares?

Sounds like you and I need to start some sort of support group (you likely have an obsessive compulsive personality, by the way)

Hmmm.. obsessive compulsive personality, great... Or wait, is that good? Would it explain my obsession with keeping all boxes (my closet and under my bed is filled with boxes. My boxes even have boxes inside of them), and making sure things on my desk are aligned at a specific angle?

My personal opinion? Don't worry too much about the size vs. portability equation, because portability is a very relative concept. For the K701s, though, you'll want respectable amplification. Your Cowon will drive them, but the K701s are a bit too clumsy and inefficient to be driven well by most DAPs. Very decent portable headphone amps can be pretty inexpensive, though.

I'm probably going to stick to Cowons all my life. My Cowon A2 has lasted me almost 3+ years now (bought it day of release) and found it a very loyal unit. I'll be most likely upgrading to the A3 for added iTunes, ogm and mkv support (so I don't have to convert my 180GB of anime). Would you still recommend I get an external amp for the K701s? Would something like a mint amp work? I was thinking of building my own amp based on a headfi or other project and integrating a Cowon A2/A3 control system into it. I have a Cowon A2 remote and understand how it works fairly well.

Now, some people might think you look like a goon wearing giant white headphones on the subway or what have you, but you'll also get immediate respect from those who know sound.

I wore my HD515s on the train once. Not only did everyone in the train not like my Iron Maiden blasting, they also gave me interesting looks. With the K701s, will people be able to hear what I have playing?

Cheers,
-robodude666

 

[tspinning]

hate to burst bubbles, but the AKG K 701 is deactivated at newegg-

 

[robodude666]

hate to burst bubbles, but the AKG K 701 is deactivated at newegg-

I know. They go on and off every once in a while. They were on last week, but the week before that deactivated. Either way, there are a few other places I've seen that sell them for <$250.

 

[phide]

Amazon is very good from what I hear (pun not indented), but most (if not all) of the stuff I want is in MP3 @ 256 kbps.

Amazon refers to their files as "256kbps", though they're typically VBR files that average around 245kbps. Without getting into a deep explanation, that's actually a good thing.

Should I just buy the physical CD for $1 more and rip it to FLAC/Lossless with iTunes or some other softwares?

If you're not concerned about waiting around for CDs, yes.

Would it explain my obsession with keeping all boxes (my closet and under my bed is filled with boxes. My boxes even have boxes inside of them), and making sure things on my desk are aligned at a specific angle?

Yeah, that'd be it

Would you still recommend I get an external amp for the K701s? Would something like a mint amp work? I was thinking of building my own amp based on a headfi or other project and integrating a Cowon A2/A3 control system into it. I have a Cowon A2 remote and understand how it works fairly well.

Yes, generally yes, and that sounds like a pretty good idea if you can get it going.

With the K701s, will people be able to hear what I have playing?

It's very possible, yes.

 

[robodude666]

Amazon refers to their files as "256kbps", though they're typically VBR files that average around 245kbps. Without getting into a deep explanation, that's actually a good thing.

If you're not concerned about waiting around for CDs, yes.

Yeah, that'd be it

Yes, generally yes, and that sounds like a pretty good idea if you can get it going.

It's very possible, yes.

I'll take your word for it. I'll read up on variable bit rate and best audio compression/codecs later this weekend.

I like the CD idea more, but I don't know where I'll keep 30+ CDs. I guess I can get one of those fancy CD racks.

Well, it will suck for them then if they don't like my music.

What do you guys think about my speaker idea(s)/questions? spaceman says I should just get headphones. Anyone else?

Cheers,
-robodude666

 

[robodude666]

Hey guys,

Sorry to double post + bump but I was wondering about something.

Other than receivers, are there any other products which can provide A/V switching and power bookshelf speakers but in a smaller form factor? I knew receivers are large but it only hit me how large when I placed a measuring tap to my desk. 17 x 6 x 15" (W x H x D) isn't all that large and is do able but I'd like something around the 1ft wideish spot if possible.

Cheers,
-robodude666

 

[matrix563]

some DT770's would be good. find someone selling a pair used for 100-120

 

[spaceman]

Hey guys,

Sorry to double post + bump but I was wondering about something.

Other than receivers, are there any other products which can provide A/V switching and power bookshelf speakers but in a smaller form factor? I knew receivers are large but it only hit me how large when I placed a measuring tap to my desk. 17 x 6 x 15" (W x H x D) isn't all that large and is do able but I'd like something around the 1ft wideish spot if possible.

Cheers,
-robodude666

Not unless you buy components. Maybe a Parasound Z-Pre and Z-Amp. They are about 1/4 the size of a normal a/v receiver. No dac though. And try shelves or building an a/v rack.

 

[jmsnyc]

How many watts is decent for pc speakers? Not to use for gaming but for normal computing and dvd watching.

 

[phide]

That isn't really an answerable question. If you want to hit a certain sine wave sound pressure level at a certain distance from the speakers, I can tell me how many watts you'll 'need', but real programs are an entirely different animal.

Don't worry about wattage.

 

[RavenZero]

Is this only going to be for music, or are you going to be needing the inputs on a full AVR for movie watching from computer and other sources? If this is only for music, and/or you don't care about multichannel audio for music or movies, you might want to go with a dedicated 2 channel amp setup of some type...

 

[robodude666]

Hey Raven,

For now the receiver will be used only for music purposes. Later when I purchase my Dell 2408WFP I will use the receiver for my Cable Box to watch TV on the 2408. I will also be buying a Wii shortly after and will use the receiver for that as well. One day I will buy a 360 or PS3, or even an Apple TV. So yes, I can get away with buying a cheap amp but I'd prefer to make an investment in a good receiver now.

I've decided to go with the Onkyo 705. It is a little more expensive but it offers nice features + it has a beautiful LED around the volume control.

Cheers,
-robodude666

 

[spaceman]

Shrugs. The Onkyo is a fine choice. I like my Sherwood 6500 better for audio though.

 

[Auric]

Amazon refers to their files as "256kbps", though they're typically VBR files that average around 245kbps. Without getting into a deep explanation, that's actually a good thing.

Most of the music I've purchased from Amazon has been 256 CBR, but it probably varies depending on what sort of music you purchase. I still recommend them over iTunes or any other online music store, sans the now defunct allofmp3.com.

Hey Raven,
I've decided to go with the Onkyo 705. It is a little more expensive but it offers nice features + it has a beautiful LED around the volume control.

I bought a 705 not too long ago. It's a nice receiver, and Onkyo makes the only ones under $500 with TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding. The multi-point room correction works decently as well. However, be aware that the HDMI connections are not properly grounded on the 705, so you have to be extra careful about ground loops.

 

[robodude666]

Most of the music I've purchased from Amazon has been 256 CBR, but it probably varies depending on what sort of music you purchase. I still recommend them over iTunes or any other online music store, sans the now defunct allofmp3.com.

I bought a 705 not too long ago. It's a nice receiver, and Onkyo makes the only ones under $500 with TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding. The multi-point room correction works decently as well. However, be aware that the HDMI connections are not properly grounded on the 705, so you have to be extra careful about ground loops.

Have any pics of your setup? Did you get the black or silver one? I can't decide which one to go with. The silver looks more white, which would work with (5x alliteration, woot!) my Mac stuff. But the black one also looks nice and is $50 cheaper.

MP3Fiesta.com is a "new" Ukrainian online music store. They have good prices, but their quality varies a lot. They bounce all over the place from 128 to 256kbps, and rarely ant 320kbps songs.

How much better would the quality of Amazon's music be over some 128Kbps WMA songs ripped from a CD with Windows Media Player? Most of my favorite music is in that or worse quality.

-robodude666

 

[phide]

How much better would the quality of Amazon's music be over some 128Kbps WMA songs ripped from a CD with Windows Media Player? Most of my favorite music is in that or worse quality.

WMA is a fairly competent codec, being reasonably on par with some of the weaker versions of AAC encoders (such as iTunes) last time I checked. It's very dependent on the exact settings used, but you can typically expect a 256kbps CBR LAME MP3 to be more transparent than a ~128k (CBR or VBR) WMA. For those times when Amazon does have a LAME 3.97 V0 track, that will, in almost every circumstance, be more transparent than a ~128k WMA.

Different psychoacoustic encoding models will reveal flaws in different ways, so it's impossible to say with any degree of certainty, which is why I kind of suggest just buying CDs from this point on. If you're going to spend the money on tracks you already own, you may as well go for the highest quality you can, and that's what you'll find on CDs (in general).

 

[Auric]

Have any pics of your setup? Did you get the black or silver one? I can't decide which one to go with. The silver looks more white, which would work with (5x alliteration, woot!) my Mac stuff. But the black one also looks nice and is $50 cheaper.

Yeah, but it's not much to look at. Next time I move, I'll set up something a little less like a rat's nest.

How much better would the quality of Amazon's music be over some 128Kbps WMA songs ripped from a CD with Windows Media Player? Most of my favorite music is in that or worse quality.

That's entirely subjective of course, but in my opinion it's a pretty significant difference. It would also depend on what sort of music you're listening to, as quality differences tend to show up much easier in something like classical as opposed to hard rock.

 

[robodude666]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking of maybe getting a good speaker amp for now, and later when i get the Dell 2408WFP I'll pick up a receiver. Empty_Quarter recommended I get the Sonic T-Amp for $55 off NCIXUS, unfortunately, it does not have a headphone jack on it. Can you guys recommend some good speaker amps which can power a pair of RB-51s and have an auto-switching headphone jack on them? I'm looking at the $50-75 range, but can do up to $100 but would prefer cheapest best possible. I'll also take a look at that z-amp that spaceman recommended earlier.

Thanks,
-robodude666

 

[spaceman]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking of maybe getting a good speaker amp for now, and later when i get the Dell 2408WFP I'll pick up a receiver. Empty_Quarter recommended I get the Sonic T-Amp for $55 off NCIXUS, unfortunately, it does not have a headphone jack on it. Can you guys recommend some good speaker amps which can power a pair of RB-51s and have an auto-switching headphone jack on them? I'm looking at the $50-75 range, but can do up to $100 but would prefer cheapest best possible. I'll also take a look at that z-amp that spaceman recommended earlier.

Thanks,
-robodude666

Yeah man. I have a Sherwood 6500 that you could have for cheap shipped. It is a good receiver for audio and the headphone jack is not gimped. You can run exactly what the sound card is outputting too. No messing with the eax at all. Just a straight shot to the cans or speakers.