Setup Suggestion - consulants step in (swatbat, yeolde, yada yada)

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marley1

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I talked to YeOlde a little today and have been throwing around ideas back and forth.

I have 2 clients that are badly in need of upgrades.

Client1 - big construction client, server crashed this week and we are working on getting most of the data back and got then running temporarily. I just ordered them a Dell 2950 III (2 x Quad Core Xeon 2.66, 4GB DDR, 2 74gb 15k sas drives in raid 1, 6 146gb 10k sas in raid 5) running SBS 08 but was originally going to downgrade to SBS 03.

They currently have a 2nd Server 03 box running Timerbline/BES (Xeon 3ghz, 3.5gb, raid something). Office size is about 6 people in office and maybe 6 field guys. When we first picked them up from the previous tech they mentiond how remote access has always been a shady spot. We discussed Terminal Services which would make the most sense for the "field" guys.

So our original estimate was new SBS box, new TS box, and keep there current Timberline box.

Now I am feeling that I should load Timberline on the new SBS box (after adding memory), and getting new Dell box for TS. Would it make sense to consolidate or just keep the 3 machines going? The client has the money and doesn't care if he has to spend I just want the most reliable and fastest setup for him. (COULD USE OLD SERVER AS UNTANGLE, SINCE CURRENT SONICWALL IS SO SHITTY)

Okay..........

Client 2 - Marina with 2 locations. About 10 users on each side. They currently have a Server 03 machine with a Xeon 1.8Ghz and 1GB running Domain, DNS, DHCP, File/Print and Dockmaster and Peachtree. Offices are connected through Business Cable (at max 30/10) and Freedom9 Freeguard on each side IPSEC VPN. So Dockmaster is the main program which everyone uses. Peachtree is used by 2 girls (1 on the local server side, 1 on remote side who is the primary user). Everything works fine but they want to move to Exchange, and have mentioned that opening some files has been slow (haven't heard complaint in a while). Use to be on T1.

So after talking with YeOlde today he gave me the idea of specing out a nice SBS 08 (similar to above in tower form) box loading up Dockmaster on it and keep the setup the same. We would then have the Old Server which we could use as a Secondary Domain, DNS, DHCP and Peachtree Server at the second office.

I then also had the idea of loading everything up on the main server, and making the original server after memory upgrades, a Terminal Service box and having the remote side connect to that.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Dan
 
Keep timberline on its own server what ever you do, with no other services running.
What we usually do is 1 server SBS with exchange and another running nothing but timberline.
ssl-vpn and rdp/ts is the best solution for remote access right now.

TS on a server is a pita with peachtree, all kinds of weird things happen, Since it is only one user set up a PC at the site with the server and use RDP they will be much happier.
I see no reason for a new server this year. UP the ram and do an upgrade late next year to 2008 sbs.
 
So for the construction client you would recommend keeping the Timberline server in tact, and just adding a TS server for the remote users?

It would be easy if the remote guys had computers in the office then we just RWW in.
 
Yes keep the timberline server as a separate server.
Timberline client on a TS server is going to need fast disks and a lot of ram for 6 users.

2 15krpm drives raid1 and 3-4GB ram should be ok.
 
With the construction client did you get SBS08 Premium(not sure if it is even in the channels for ordering yet)? If you got Premium you already have the second servers os license.

As far as Sage goes(Timberline) goes they do support windows server 2008 but they do not support the 64 bit versions last time I checked(when like 9.5 came out a month ago or so). Pretty much means it stays off mr sbs box.

BES is its own issue. I'm guessing for a company that size it is blackberry professional that you would be installing. Anyway I don't think RIM supports it offically on 2008 yet. With exchange 07 it needed to be on a different server then exchange anyway but I was under the impression that they hadn't supported it on a 32bit server 08 install yet either. Might want to check into this as it would mean leaving at least BES on its own box(I wouldn't want to run it on the TS box myself).

The TS box is another can of worms. I'd say go with 08 if possible because of the better printing support and the seamless windows support. This is if your software will run on it.

Really comes down to how much you trust that old server and how it is setup. If you don't then it might be a good time to get a nice little 1u dell box for timberline and bes(with that many users bes shouldn't be an issue).

Edit:
Timberline has some issues that come up if you reinstall it as you move it. I can give you some more info on this as far as some issues I've had with it with my only client that runs it if needbe(it blew up on us big time like a year ago).

Timberline also has some features that don't like terminal services like the database editor. Can't really name all of the issues off the top of my head but something to look into.
 
I got SBS08 Standard.

Sage Timberline will be on a Server 2003 Box - 3ghz Xeon, 3.5GB Ram its a HP box from previous people but is only like a year or year half old. Will be formatted and loaded from scratch.

Terminal Services Server will probably bea Poweredge 1950 with Server 08.

I will have to touch base with RIM tomorrow. They currently have the BES Express (or whatever its called now), only 2 users have Blackberry. Owner and Co-owner have iphones but are slowly seeing how they are toys and not business machines. I could keep BES on the Timberline box like it is now.

So summary:

SBS08 Server - Poweredge 2950 III Dual Xeon 2.66, 2 74gb SAS 15k RPM in Raid 1, 6 146GB SAS 10k RPM in Raid 5 with hotspare.

Timberline Box/BES - HP with Xeon 3ghz or 3.4ghz, 3.5gb, some scsi raid on Server 03. will be fresh installed

Terminal Service - Poweredge 1950, thinking single Quad Xeon, 8gb, Raid 1 with some 73GB SAS or 146GB SAS.

Dual 2200va, rack yada yada.

------------------

What about the marine client? Any input on that? I think I have to see if they are still having slowdown opening up word, excel files. Seems kind of odd to have slowdowns opening up word, excel, powerpoint files over a vpn. Will have to touch base with them on that.

Then I am thinking SBS 08 box running Peachtree and other SBS roles. Old server will be designated to Dockmaster itself. All stuff done over VPN. OR SBS08 box gets Dockmaster and other SBS roles and then throw old server at brand office running Peachtree, DHCP, DNS, AD at second office.
 
The second client. Wanted to think a little on it so it is a seperate post.

Peachtree run ok over the vpn? I ask because the clients we have on it have gone to ts for speed(they are on slower dsl or cable connections). Main client uses it off a managed citrix server that another company runs.

Anyway I don't know anything about the dockmaster program so are you thinking of running it off a ts box to the other side or just use the ts idea for peachtree? Also we talking about 2 databases(one for each side) or a single database for both sides?

I personally like the idea of a server on each side with a new sbs box. That way the second side as an advantage of speed for a lot of things. If the dockmaster is running 2 databases then it is a major move to the 2 servers.

For peach tree and 1 remote user you could just get a cheap vostro and let the remote user remote into it from the other side if speed is an issue.
 
For the construction company I think keeping that old box is going to be the best idea(other then replaceing it but it sounds like it should be fine). I say this because of the issues with running bes and timberline on 08 and I don't really like the idea of having the main timberline install on a ts box.

I'd just leave BES on the timberline box. With a few users it really shouldn't cause an issue(I'd upgrade the box to 4 gigs just for the hell of it though).
 
marley1 said:
What about the marine client? Any input on that? I think I have to see if they are still having slowdown opening up word, excel files. Seems kind of odd to have slowdowns opening up word, excel, powerpoint files over a vpn. Will have to touch base with them on that.

Then I am thinking SBS 08 box running Peachtree and other SBS roles. Old server will be designated to Dockmaster itself. All stuff done over VPN. OR SBS08 box gets Dockmaster and other SBS roles and then throw old server at brand office running Peachtree, DHCP, DNS, AD at second office.
Click to expand...

Really I think an onsite server on both sides is the best bet. Let each side host its own files for the most part(minus the sharred databases).

Maybe talk to them about sharepoint for company files both sides would need like anything HR related or a sharred calendar.
 
swatbat said:
The second client. Wanted to think a little on it so it is a seperate post.

Peachtree run ok over the vpn? I ask because the clients we have on it have gone to ts for speed(they are on slower dsl or cable connections). Main client uses it off a managed citrix server that another company runs.

Anyway I don't know anything about the dockmaster program so are you thinking of running it off a ts box to the other side or just use the ts idea for peachtree? Also we talking about 2 databases(one for each side) or a single database for both sides?

I personally like the idea of a server on each side with a new sbs box. That way the second side as an advantage of speed for a lot of things. If the dockmaster is running 2 databases then it is a major move to the 2 servers.

For peach tree and 1 remote user you could just get a cheap vostro and let the remote user remote into it from the other side if speed is an issue.
Click to expand...

Alright so this is how its currently setup.

Freedom9 Freeguard 100 creates the IPSEC VPN.
LocationA - has the only server - PowerEdge 1900 with 1.8 Xeon and 1GB. This runs Server 03 for AD, File/Print, Dockmaster.

LocationB - user has a Optiplex that is her personal worksation and the Peachtree server.

User from Location A gets access to Peachtree through shared folder to LocalB optiplex peachtree server.

LocationA users access Dockmaster locally, and LocationB users access through VPN which works fine. r

So maybe like you said the best thing to do is:

LocationA - SBS 08 Box - Poweredge 2900 with Dual 2.66 Xeon, SBS 08, 8GB DDR (or 16GB??) Raid 1 with SAS, Raid 5 with SAS. This will run SBS 08 roles, Dockmaster, and files for LocationA

LocationB - Old Poweredge 1900 running Server 03. Upgarde memory to 4gb. This will be the Peachtree server, and hold LocationB files.

Only concerns. This location also needs BES. I guess I will load BES on LocationB server.

Also folder redirection. I guess all that needs to be done is to make 2 OU and 2 Group Policy for Folder Redirection. OU would be LocationA and that would folder redirect Desktop and My Documets to LocationAServer\Storage\Users and then I would have another OU for LocationB and that would folder redirecto to LocationBServer\Storage\Users?

Or whats the best way for that?

I wish SBS 08 or any SBS can do DFS-R
 
swatbat said:
The second client. Wanted to think a little on it so it is a seperate post.

Peachtree run ok over the vpn? I ask because the clients we have on it have gone to ts for speed(they are on slower dsl or cable connections). Main client uses it off a managed citrix server that another company runs.

Anyway I don't know anything about the dockmaster program so are you thinking of running it off a ts box to the other side or just use the ts idea for peachtree? Also we talking about 2 databases(one for each side) or a single database for both sides?

I personally like the idea of a server on each side with a new sbs box. That way the second side as an advantage of speed for a lot of things. If the dockmaster is running 2 databases then it is a major move to the 2 servers.

For peach tree and 1 remote user you could just get a cheap vostro and let the remote user remote into it from the other side if speed is an issue.
Click to expand...

see this was the problem I was having. they originally mentioned that it was slow but we gave them estimate like 6 months ago with no input.

Dockmaster is a single shared database. Each side runs off the server in LocationA.

I talked to Dockmaster a few months back and they mentioend that they are now TS supported and moving many users over to it.

So at first my original plan was to get a new SBS 08 Box, use the original server just for Dockmaster, and get a new server for Terminal Services. Location B would RDP into the TS server and keep everything locally. Then no problem with speed for anything, and all files would be stored on a single server making it easier to backup. TS server would be Server 08, Dockmaster would be on Server 03.

So confused on it. The marine client is really ready for a new server and would be good to spend money. I'd need to figure out licensing if i was to do the TS.

I would imagine that I would have to get SBS 08 for the total number of users (20), but then for TS licenses I would only have to get like 10 User CAL for the LocationB users
 
Err BES really throws an issue into the mix. Not sure how it would run over a vpn(don't think it should be an issue but you never know).

Do they have the phones yet? Also how many phones are we talking? I'd look at some windows mobile phones as it might end up being cheaper in the long run.

Also what about sbs premium so you have a second 08 license and use the 03 license you have now in a vm just for bes? You could still run TS off the second box.

If that 1900 a core2 xeon I'm guessing? Or is it like an 1800 running an old xeon? If it is the later I'd look more at using it just as a bes box and going with 2 new boxes.

RIM really needs to get BES working on SBS08 without needing it on a second box. Would make life better.
 
wonder how a similar server to client1 with sbs 08, dockmaster, peachtree running on that, new TS box, old server used as BES
 
marley1 said:
wonder how a similar server to client1 with sbs 08, dockmaster, peachtree running on that, new TS box, old server used as BES
Click to expand...

The idea of an entire server being used for BES in a small setup just bothers me. Seems like a waste. Not saying it wouldn't be a good way to go.

Back to my question on the phones. Anyway to get them on windows mobile phones with push and just forget about bes? This comes from someone who carries not 1 but 2 blackberries(love my new curve)
 
most have berries already. and to be honest i have never seen windows mobile phones win in anything vs blackberry.

i could probably virtualize teh server, or even talk to RIM im suprised its not supported yet.
 
marley1 said:
most have berries already. and to be honest i have never seen windows mobile phones win in anything vs blackberry.

i could probably virtualize teh server, or even talk to RIM im suprised its not supported yet.
Click to expand...

I'm just thinking from a support standpoint. Personally I agree with you on the blackberries being better although windows mobile is getting better.

I'm just thinking of support and extra hardware/heat that isn't really needed. BES doesn't support 08 at all from my understanding so it has to be thrown on an 03 box. Either a VM or another server. I guess since you have the server already I'd consider using it on that if you are going with a ts setup. If you decide to run a server on each side I'd be looking at sbs premium and having that server reused as the second 08 server and using bes in a vm using the old 03 license(if it can be transfered and is not an oem one tied to the first box).
 
Client 1 looks fine..just SBS and Terminal Server.

Client 2...the marina....

Are you back to 2 Peachtree users? Or is it two users? Over phone it was 1 user.

If SBS is at the main office....single Peachtree user is at the branch office...
And currently Dockmaster appears light enough to run fine through the VPN tunnel....

I'd stick Dockmaster on the SBS box.

If Peachtree is just a single user at the remote office...just run it on her workstation, no bother with the server. Setup a Windows Backup shortcut on her desktop to back up the PT company files to the server through the tunnel. Normally clunky through a VPN tunnel..but if this place has 10 and 2 meg UPLOADs....I'd see it as being a darned quick tunnel. Remember...accountants love to backup, they don't mind it.

If Peachtree is to be used by 2 users..one at each site....now we have some testing to do. I'd try to get it running through the VPN tunnel, as again...with their high speed connections..this VPN tunnel should be quite fast. Also takes care of the BES box. Take their old server, 03, place it at the location where the heaviest Peachtree usage is....host PT there, and install BES on it. If it's at the branch office....which I think you said the most Peachtree work is done, set it up as a secondary DC..running DNS too..which will alleviate some tunnel traffic with DNS requests and logins.
 
2 PeachTree users.

Main User is at LocationB - she holds the Peachtree File and Database - she is the server
Secondary User is at LocationA and access Peachtree through VPN

YeOlde - what about files tho? Do I want to keep LocationA files on LocationA (main SBS) server, and LocationB files on LocationB server. Or do I want to just keep the users my documents local to each side (group policy with 2 folder redirection policies).
 
marley1 said:
2 PeachTree users.

Main User is at LocationB - she holds the Peachtree File and Database - she is the server
Secondary User is at LocationA and access Peachtree through VPN

YeOlde - what about files tho? Do I want to keep LocationA files on LocationA (main SBS) server, and LocationB files on LocationB server. Or do I want to just keep the users my documents local to each side (group policy with 2 folder redirection policies).
Click to expand...

I'd put the files on each users side. Have either 2 backups going or just have it pull the files over the vpn at night to the main site and have the sbs box backup both.
 
but what about shared company files? right now all the shared company files are on Server1 (locationa).

So LocationB My Docs and Desktop will be redirected to Server2\Storage\Users
LocationA My Docs and Desktop will be redirected to Server1\Storage\Users

I can do a RSYNC or something each night to backup the data from LocationB to A to run NTBACKUP or RD1000 probably can just pull files over VPN.
 
Depends on the average size of the files used daily...I've had plenty of WAN VPN setups over 128k upload with small users at the satellite...decent Sonicwall VPN hardware doing the job, works fine for average documents and primary shared folders. Hardware that can dedicate a % of the avail bandwidth to the VPN tunnel is good, so online music listeners don't hurt the tunnel.
 
Throw the sharred company files on the sbs box. Depending on what the files are sharepoint might make sence.

If we are talking about like templats everyone uses then have them on both server.
 
well freedom9 > sonicwall. just contacted them. we can do a QOS for hte tunnel, give it high priority.

to be honest ive never seen the slow files accesss, i always thought Dockmaster was slow itself, and that the server itself was slow.

i am waiting to touch base today with Dockmaster and the owner of the company.
 
swatbat said:
Throw the sharred company files on the sbs box. Depending on what the files are sharepoint might make sence.

If we are talking about like templats everyone uses then have them on both server.
Click to expand...

Yah Sharepoint! :cool:

Fat tunnel..all should run reasonably well unless they're working with 25+ meg files all the time.
 
Run away from SBS as fast as you can... Dealing with this right now... when you outgrow it: upgrading is a b***.
 
they wont overgrow it.

each company is under 20 users. will not ever reach 75....
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Yah Sharepoint! :cool:

Fat tunnel..all should run reasonably well unless they're working with 25+ meg files all the time.
Click to expand...

Yea they should be fine. And yes sharepoint kicks ass.

TechieSooner said:
Run away from SBS as fast as you can... Dealing with this right now... when you outgrow it: upgrading is a b***.
Click to expand...

SBS is a very good opion for small business clients. SBS08 looks even better.
 
TechieSooner said:
SBS 2008 is only 50 users.

If you see them outgrowing that, don't go that way.
Click to expand...

Wrong. SBS 2008 supports 75 users just like 03 did.

From MS's site

Both editions include five Client Access License (CAL) Suites (Standard or Premium version dependent upon the edition), and supports a maximum of 75 users or devices. Additional CAL suites
can be purchased in increments of 1, 5, or 20 pack quantities for Users or Devices.
Click to expand...

Sure if you are around 50 or 60 users and having any chance of growing you might want to look at Essential Business Server or just getting the standard version of the various apps.
 
So you are right. Last I had heard (granted it was awhile ago) Microsoft was dropping that down to 50 users.
 
marley1 said:
2 PeachTree users.

Main User is at LocationB - she holds the Peachtree File and Database - she is the server
Secondary User is at LocationA and access Peachtree through VPN

YeOlde - what about files tho? Do I want to keep LocationA files on LocationA (main SBS) server, and LocationB files on LocationB server. Or do I want to just keep the users my documents local to each side (group policy with 2 folder redirection policies).
Click to expand...

You could setup a DFS namespace and file replication on the servers. That way users on both side of the tunnel go to shares by the same sharename (\\domain.local\sharename) but they access the files on their local server. DFS replicates the changed files to both servers over the VPN. I'm not sure if SBS supports DFS or not, if it does that would be the way to go, though. I'm currently working on a DFS project for the local city government and it seems to be working really well so far.

If DFS isn't an option I would say do folder redirection to each local server and run NTbackup on the branch everyday to backup the local shares to the other server and then backup the main server to tape or RDX or something everynight.

For Shared Documents just let the branch open over the VPN, 2Mbps upload should be okay for word and excel files.

For PeachTree you could setup a VM running XP Pro on the SBS server using Hyper-V and then let the branch user RDP into that VM.
 
i know sbs supports DFS just not DFS-R which i think DFS is alot more bandwidth intensive.

who has a client using sharepoint that can show me via logmein or something?
 
TechieSooner said:
So you are right. Last I had heard (granted it was awhile ago) Microsoft was dropping that down to 50 users.
Click to expand...

Yeah they did flip flop on that at least once or twice not long ago.

I have not done the upgrade path from SBS...Microsoft does have a special package for that. I just sat still sipping more coffee...and brain farted in trying to remember the name of the package. A colleague of mine has done it a couple of times..says it works well.

I am excited about another new product Microsoft has...to allow Small Business Server to grow into the next level...called "Windows Essential Business Server". Nicknamed "EBS". It's sort of the next step....businesses smaller than 75 can use SBS, and EBS is for up to 300.
http://www.microsoft.com/ebs/en/us/default.aspx

I have one client that I'd like to take to this product next spring/summer...as they're starting to nudge 70 on SBS right now.
 
Brian - any issues with ESET on Server 08?

When you gonna show me Sharepoint on that client of yours??
 
marley1 said:
i know sbs supports DFS just not DFS-R which i think DFS is alot more bandwidth intensive.

who has a client using sharepoint that can show me via logmein or something?
Click to expand...

If I'm around later today I can show you my companies setup.

marley1 said:
Brian - any issues with ESET on Server 08?

When you gonna show me Sharepoint on that client of yours??
Click to expand...

ESET runs fine on server 08. We have had a client using it on 08 std with exchange 07 std since april. The 08 server is running 2.7 and they have 3 on their network workstations.
 
cool swatbat, btw im dan.

remember that dentist client of mine that i picked up? well i have been going out with her for a month now. got one of her friends wedding to go to, then my best friend is having a kegger party. so will bea busy day.

after like 4-5 would be cool.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Yeah they did flip flop on that at least once or twice not long ago.

I have not done the upgrade path from SBS...Microsoft does have a special package for that. I just sat still sipping more coffee...and brain farted in trying to remember the name of the package. A colleague of mine has done it a couple of times..says it works well.

I am excited about another new product Microsoft has...to allow Small Business Server to grow into the next level...called "Windows Essential Business Server". Nicknamed "EBS". It's sort of the next step....businesses smaller than 75 can use SBS, and EBS is for up to 300.
http://www.microsoft.com/ebs/en/us/default.aspx

I have one client that I'd like to take to this product next spring/summer...as they're starting to nudge 70 on SBS right now.
Click to expand...

Just called Small Business Server 2003 R2 Transition Pack. Yea I haven't done it either but I know some people that say it works well. I've only done switch overs where I was going from like sbs2000 to std and I just promted the new servers to the domain and took the sbs box off line and stole its roles.

EBS looks really nice as well. I know a few clients that we might have to take to it.
 
marley1 said:
cool swatbat, btw im dan.

remember that dentist client of mine that i picked up? well i have been going out with her for a month now. got one of her friends wedding to go to, then my best friend is having a kegger party. so will bea busy day.

after like 4-5 would be cool.
Click to expand...

Ha. Yea I will be working most of the day. Long story about us picking up a new client because their last consultant got committed like friday morning. Once I get a better hand on whats going on I'll have to post the story.
 
sure thing. i have a sbs 08 box setup at my office, let me know if you want a user account setup on it so you can mess around. for some reason cant get pop3 connector working but didn't spend any time on it.

RWW in 08 is nice =)
 
marley1 said:
sure thing. i have a sbs 08 box setup at my office, let me know if you want a user account setup on it so you can mess around. for some reason cant get pop3 connector working but didn't spend any time on it.

RWW in 08 is nice =)
Click to expand...

I have an sbs08 box sitting at home that I've been messing with. When MS sends me my copy of the final build next month I'm going to use it at home as my main server. So far I really like it.

SBS08 has sharepoint 3 already installed which is the same as you would download from MS. I'd just really fuck around in it. Pretty much a major free intranet software. With outlook 07 you can sync calendars to it as well.

Another really cool feature I haven't played with yet is sharepoint 3's mobile site. With exchange 07 you can send out 1 link to your sharepoint site and if you try to open it from a windows mobile device exchange acts as a proxy for sharepoint.
 
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