recommend some parts?

[faji_tama]

Hi all, been a long while since I've been here. Fallen out of touch with the whole hardware scene, and well, it's time to upgrade again, so here I am, relying on the collective wisdom of [H]

Looking to build a much smaller, hopefully portable, system this time. My last one was a big honking P180, and I'd rather not deal with that again. Plus, I plan to keep this in the living room next to my TV, so I don't want it to stand out too much.

I've already ordered an EVGA GTX 260 Core 216, and I'm thinking of getting one of the Core2 Quads, maybe the Q9550. Was hoping to get some suggestions for the rest of the system - mostly just a mobo and case that'll all work together with the aforementioned two (maybe a PSU too). I'm not particularly stuck on mATX or smaller, but it seems easier if I'm going the SFF route (though I think I've read on here about one SFF case that takes the regular ATX). Having a mobo that'll support DDR3 would be nice, but not a hard requirement since it seems pretty limiting (randomly searching Newegg I only saw two ASRock mobos that'd support the Quad and DDR3). Being able to OC would also be nice, though I don't know yet if I'll actually do it.

Case wise, I like the styling of things like Lian-li's V350, V351, being sharp, sleek, and black - I'd pass on lights and the like, since it'd be doubling as a HTPC in addition to a gaming rig, and I wouldn't want it to distract in a darkened room. Just don't know how these things would fit into a case. Might consider getting a dedicated sound card too if I have room, though I'll probably want to find a way to hook it up to a receiver instead (a whole 'nother topic). Thanks fellas!

 

[lowteckh]

The requirements of the Gen[H] sticky remains.

Asking for Build Help?: ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FIRST

 

[faji_tama]

Ah, sorry, didn't know about that one. Here ya guys go:

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
General use, HTPC, gaming, image editing (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc)

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Under $1000. Was originally trying to stick to $500, but that was silly. Aiming for around $700-800 now, with the extra leeway for things like tax, shipping, or things I forgot.

3) Where do you live?
Washington (no Newegg tax woohoo!)

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
Basically the whole computer, minus peripherals (I have mice, keyboards, monitors). So case, CPU, RAM, graphics card (which I bought already), mobo, PSU, hard drive(s), optical drive (haven't thought about this one yet), additional cables/fans/cooling if needed, and maybe a sound card


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Not reusing anything cept for peripherals. POSSIBLY one or more of the hard drives I have in my P180 now.

6) Will you be overclocking?
Maybe. I haven't done it before, but I think I want to.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
I have a 21" right now, but I'll probably be hooking this up to my 46" Bravia most of the time.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Within a month, give or take.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
RAID, Firewire, and SLI support would all be nice, but I don't see myself making use of them anytime soon, so they're at the very bottom of my list (as in I won't miss them horribly, and I wouldn't pay too much extra to have them). Besides the obvious it needs to work with my parts, having a way to hook everything up to my receiver would be nice, so HDMI here could be good? I haven't thought about the best way to connect my audio and video to my TV/future receiver.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
Yep.


Some things I have and/or are considering already:
1) Bought an EVGA GTX 260 Core 16 already
2) Leaning towards a Core2 Quad over the Phenom IIs - I hear Intel is a bit faster at things like image processing, but also because it's hard to find DDR3 mobos for AMD. Feel free to correct me if I heard wrong here, because there have been a ton of sales on the Phenom IIs.
3) For case size, I'm thinking around the dimensions of things like the V350, or the Shuttles. So something like 12"x12"x15" or smaller, if that's possible anyway.

Thanks again people!

 

[[Ion]]

Phenom II X4 940BE ($190)
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 ($33, 23 after rebate)
Asus M4A79 Deluxe ($180)
Lian Li PC-A05NB ($90)
Corsair TX650 ($100, 80 after rebate)
WD Caviar Black 1TB (or more if you want to go with a RAID array) ($100 each)
A SATA DVD Burner (~$25 on Newegg)

Total: $688 + shipping after rebates. You could always swap out the X4 940 for an X2 550 and save $85, or swap out the M4A79 Deluxe for a Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-UD4H and save $50

Not strictly SFF because it uses an ATX board, but the PC-A05NB is smaller than some M-ATX cases, such as the Antec Mini P180

 

[faji_tama]

Hey Ion, thanks for suggesting parts, but I actually kind of wanted to go Intel this time around. But the bigger issue is the size of the case. The PC-A05NB is still smallish, but with the long edge being 19", it's a big larger than I'd like. I was thinking/hoping more along the lines of the V350 or Shuttle case sizes. But again, without having built a SFF before (and actually, my friend did most of the work last time on my P180), I don't know about sizing issues.

 

[[Ion]]

Hey Ion, thanks for suggesting parts, but I actually kind of wanted to go Intel this time around. But the bigger issue is the size of the case. The PC-A05NB is still smallish, but with the long edge being 19", it's a big larger than I'd like. I was thinking/hoping more along the lines of the V350 or Shuttle case sizes. But again, without having built a SFF before (and actually, my friend did most of the work last time on my P180), I don't know about sizing issues.

In that case

If this is too expensive for you, an alternative would be to switch out the Q9550 for a cheaper quad, such as the Q8400 or Q8200

 

[tiraides]

Hey Ion, thanks for suggesting parts, but I actually kind of wanted to go Intel this time around. But the bigger issue is the size of the case. The PC-A05NB is still smallish, but with the long edge being 19", it's a big larger than I'd like. I was thinking/hoping more along the lines of the V350 or Shuttle case sizes. But again, without having built a SFF before (and actually, my friend did most of the work last time on my P180), I don't know about sizing issues.

The Intel Core 2 series (along with Socket 775) has reached EOL status, so you won't see many new parts by this time next year. Phenom II can perform about as well as the Core 2, is a bit cheaper, and (since it was recently released) has a longer upgrade cycle. For longevity's sake, if nothing else, consider a Phenom II-based build.

The current Phenom II line-up can be used on many AM2+ boards, although some of them need a BIOS update beforehand. You don't necessarily need DDR3 RAM, as it currently offers no noticeable performance benefit compared to DDR2 RAM.

A Shuttle-style SFF desktop case has very little space. Though the LANBOX Lite that [Ion] chose for you can support the GTX 260, it will be a little tight to fit everything else in. Because of the tight space in cases like the LANBOX Lite, I recommend that you don't even think about overclocking at all. Unless you replace all of the fans in your case, aside from the CPU fan, the strongest fan that you'll have would most likely be the PSU fan.

Speaking of which, if you choose something along the lines of the LANBOX Lite -- the Silverstone SUGO -F series cases are capable of handling the GTX 260 as well -- you should also consider using modular cables. Generally, the less cables that you use inside the case, the less items you'll have to manipulate in order to maintain decent air flow throughout the case.

 

[lowteckh]

Since the OP likes the V350/V351, go for that. I wouldn't let other people pick a car for me

Since you're leaning to Intel, Ion's build is solid though I would switch to a modular PSU, like a Silverstone ST70F or a HX620 (not a fan of it... and the HX750/HX850 may have trouble fitting into the V350/V351).

 

[NichoTL]

Q9550 is clearly the way to go at the moment in a SFF.
2 things though:
- the mobo: he seems to care about the sound and I've heard that the DFI board's sound chip is sub-par (not that I would know or care but here you go). Besides crossfire doesn't seem to be his objective. I would then recommend the EG45M-UD2H from Gigabyte. More solid mainstream. Probably not as good an OCer as the DFI but then again he might not notice.
- PSU: yeah modular would be nice, but also he doesn't need more than a 500W-ish PSU. Even if in the future he goes for a gtx285. so maybe an Enermax 525 Modu82+ or Corsair 520HX or the Silverstone equivalent...

 

[faji_tama]

The Intel Core 2 series (along with Socket 775) has reached EOL status, so you won't see many new parts by this time next year. Phenom II can perform about as well as the Core 2, is a bit cheaper, and (since it was recently released) has a longer upgrade cycle. For longevity's sake, if nothing else, consider a Phenom II-based build.

Q9550 is clearly the way to go at the moment in a SFF.
2 things though:
- the mobo: he seems to care about the sound and I've heard that the DFI board's sound chip is sub-par (not that I would know or care but here you go). Besides crossfire doesn't seem to be his objective. I would then recommend the EG45M-UD2H from Gigabyte. More solid mainstream. Probably not as good an OCer as the DFI but then again he might not notice.

NichoTL, is there a reason you think the Q9550 is the way to go? tiraides made a somewhat convincing point with his comment, and the only reasons I was considering Intel were because I was thinking about DDR3, and heard AM3 + DDR3 mATX boards were hard to find. Didn't know you could use some of the AM2 boards though, and I don't care too much about DDR3 at this point anymore.. and Phenoms ARE a bit cheaper.


Now, if I were to actually go the Phenom route, with the GTX 260, a Phenom II X4 940BE (and why this over, say, a 955 AM3?), one of the recommended modular PSUs, does Ion or anyone have suggestions for a build that'd fit into LANBOX / SUGO / V350 style cases? (The LANBOX looks pretty cool too - I think in general I just want a nice sharp looking black case, though I read the SUGOs have poor paint jobs?) And then should I avoid OCing because of the tight squeeze (and forgo coolers like the HDT-S1283 that Ion mentioned then)?

And lastly, I'm wondering how I'd do hookups (and thus what I'd actually need on a mobo). If I wanted to hook this up to my TV (and if I had a receiver too), would I route both the audio and video through the receiver, or the audio through the receiver, and the video directly to the TV via HDMI? Because I noticed that some of the recommended mobos have both HDMI and S/PDIF optical, and I'm wondering if I can just do that A/V hookup all via one HDMI cable. I think the larger question here is just more of what I need, in terms of a mobo (do I need that HDMI?), as well as other components (a sound card, or should I just let the receiver take care of it all).

Again, thanks for the feedback guys, gotta love the [H] community ^^

 

[MrWizard6600]

hah, I was in a very similar situation and a little googling told me the digital SPDIF audio signal and the digital audio signal on the HDMI cord are not the same, so its not a simple connector issue, you'd need an active bridge, which is no good; not because its a loss of quality but because its just expensive.

Your best bet is to go with a board with good high quality audio (when motherboards decided to universally adopt Intels 20bit "azalia" audio standard I thought that was the end of the sound card industry so obviously I'm not much of an audiophile, you might want a sound card though) and run the optical SPDIF line out to your AV receiver. If your TV doesn't have DVI in, you can get a DVI to HDMI converter but understand that HDMI cable (and thus your TV set to HDMI-1 or whatever) will not have any audio on (from) it.

A really slick solution is from AMD, where if you buy any of the new HD48k series you can use a simple converter (no active conversion, audio is bridged in over pci-e using a realtek solution on the card), on a standard DVI-D output and you'll get a standard HDMI output with audio.

edit: ahh but of course 790GX has its own on-board video output, and that DFI board has HDMI out. So that might work perfectly. I donno how you'd get that working on the software side though...

Also for what you're building you don't need anything more than a solid 500W unit. Call their highest stress 400W and with a 500W unit you've still got 20% overhead with a 500W unit. And NCIX is selling Seasonis Premier brand, the M12, a 500W version for a little under $80.

 

[tiraides]

The Black Edition processors have unlocked multipliers, making them a bit easier to overclock. However, the difference in stock speeds between the X4 940 and the X4 955 aren't enough (IMO) to justify the X4 955's higher price. While the Q9550 is the better processor performance-wise, it's only a decent choice if you have no intentions of upgrading the processor within the next year or two.

Many of the Shuttle-type cases, like the LANBOX Lite and the SUGO series cases, can't fit a high-end CPU cooler like the HDT-S1283 due to their small volume. The Lian Li PC-V350 may be able to fit some 92mm coolers, but I'm not certain. Again, due to the lack of space and adequate cooling (most of those cases use 80mm fans compared to the 120mm that are often used with ATX tower cases), it isn't recommended to overclock anything.

Many motherboards nowadays come with onboard HD audio and digital outputs. Additionally, some video cards (like the high-end Radeon HD 4-series) have onboard HDMI ports that carry both video and sound through the cable. The easiest way (IMO) would be to grab one of those cards with onboard HDMI and connect the TV/receiver through that.

 

[[Ion]]

NichoTL, is there a reason you think the Q9550 is the way to go? tiraides made a somewhat convincing point with his comment, and the only reasons I was considering Intel were because I was thinking about DDR3, and heard AM3 + DDR3 mATX boards were hard to find. Didn't know you could use some of the AM2 boards though, and I don't care too much about DDR3 at this point anymore.. and Phenoms ARE a bit cheaper.


Now, if I were to actually go the Phenom route, with the GTX 260, a Phenom II X4 940BE (and why this over, say, a 955 AM3?), one of the recommended modular PSUs, does Ion or anyone have suggestions for a build that'd fit into LANBOX / SUGO / V350 style cases? (The LANBOX looks pretty cool too - I think in general I just want a nice sharp looking black case, though I read the SUGOs have poor paint jobs?) And then should I avoid OCing because of the tight squeeze (and forgo coolers like the HDT-S1283 that Ion mentioned then)?

And lastly, I'm wondering how I'd do hookups (and thus what I'd actually need on a mobo). If I wanted to hook this up to my TV (and if I had a receiver too), would I route both the audio and video through the receiver, or the audio through the receiver, and the video directly to the TV via HDMI? Because I noticed that some of the recommended mobos have both HDMI and S/PDIF optical, and I'm wondering if I can just do that A/V hookup all via one HDMI cable. I think the larger question here is just more of what I need, in terms of a mobo (do I need that HDMI?), as well as other components (a sound card, or should I just let the receiver take care of it all).

Again, thanks for the feedback guys, gotta love the [H] community ^^

I would switch the 940 BE out with a 550 BE and hope I could unlock the extra cores, but it's a bit of a risk so you may want to stick with the 940.

 

[faji_tama]

I would switch the 940 BE out with a 550 BE and hope I could unlock the extra cores, but it's a bit of a risk so you may want to stick with the 940.

I don't suppose there are rough numbers on how much of a risk it actually is though are there? And is the unlocking something I can do w/ the DFI? (Brief Googling said something about just turning on ACC, but the Tom's hardware article I read mentioned ASRock and Biostar). And are there any stability issues that come out of doing that?