Project: SE/G4

[Kurlon]

So, I've had a hopped up SE/30 pulling duty as a network file server, ssh client, and random spare cpu that finally had a fatal failure. The scsi controller died. So, having just finished building a G4 desktop using as many PC parts as possible (Frankenmac Project) and not wanting to repair my PC (Dothan on the desktop with a modern chipset or bust!) I was left with a desire to do something with more visual appeal, as well as restoring the services I lost when the SE/30 tanked.

Looking at the SE/30, and pics of the G4 Cube, it seemed like a natural fit. A bit of googling turned up this site showing stock appearing compacts with modern (iMac) guts stuffed in them. What really caught my attention were the units with LCD displays grafted in. 10.4" LCDs appear to be a perfect fit.

That settled it, I'm doing an SE/30 conversion using a hopped up to the nines G4 Cube and a TFT display. I plan to do it better than the site above too, the backs of those machines are flat out ugly.

Note, I'm using my PDA's camera to take these pics, it sux for this purpose.

So, to start here is my SE/30 prior to gutting:

Back taken off for a few views. The 8" monitor and associated power supply dominate the internals. Interestingly, Apple chose to run the monitor off 12v and hop up from there for it's high voltage rather than tap the AC directly, even though it's already brought into the case.

Back half of the case.

Case gutted save for base frame. LOTS of room to work now.

 

[CrimandEvil]

Is that you Starhawk?

Anyways I'm anyways interested in Mac mods.

 

[Kurlon]

So, the key element of this mod is the display. While I can find suitable CRTs from point of sales monitors, I'd prefer to not loose all that space to power supplies and tube. Personal prefrence says 1024x768 is the flat out minimum resolution I will put up with if I have any choice in the matter.

My first search was on ebay, and turned up what looks like the ideal solution, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3698&item=5145133843. 10.4", 1024x768 native resolution, $230 shipped to the US. Unfortunatly the seller has been near impossible to get ahold of, and his feedback from those that have purchased this monitor is less than encouraging.

Moving on, google turns up 2 makers of 10.4" 1024x768 LCD modules, Siemens and NEC.
Siemens TFT
NEC TFTs

Additionaly I found these guys claiming to offer a 10.4" TFT matching my specs either in the raw, or minimally packaged. No response to quote requests yet.

What do you guys suggest for alternative sources of displays?

Looking at cosmetics, my case needs alot of cleanup. The front plastic has one corner held together by superglue, it'll need to be replaced in the final build. The back has some scrapes, and a security loop epoxied on. Not knowing if I can find something that will give me a good chemical bond to this plastic, or how it'll paint, I think I'm going to take a different tact to clean up the back and possibly part of the front.

I'm going to cut most of the back off, replacing it with a screwed in piece of metal. It'll provide a nice blank canvas to put whatever holes/etc I need in, and will powdercoat nicely for the final build. I plan to do the same for the IO port bay.

On the front, the existing screen bezil will have to be cut down to enlarge the opening for a TFT display, similar to the Japanese conversions. The floppy drive bay opening will be extended to service a slot load optical drive.

Other cosmetic tweaks, I'd like to route out the front apple logo, and fill it with clear resin. Behind it I'll mount the Cube's proximity power switch and light. The entire case will be done up in black, not sure gloss or stock texture/satin yet. I'd like to find some way to relable the front in chrome (paint, decal if I have to, real Metal would be cool) to say "Macintosh SE/G4".

The motherboard will be mounted parallel to the back, on a metal frame. I want it in the air as much as possible to improve cooling. Traditionally Cubes use a DC/DC board as a power supply, and it tends to cook in the small case when you add a fast HD, big video card, and upgrade the CPU. I plan to hop this pig up with a dual CPU module, at least an ATi Radeon 9800, and possibly a FSB tweak from 100mhz to 133mhz if it'll take it. All this will require optimal cooling.

I haven't settled on a power supply design yet. The factory offering is rated at 200w but does far less in practice. I do like the idea of the main AC/DC conversion occuring in an external brick however, that keeps alot of heat and bulk out of the case.

 

[altec]

what aboat that place that sky got his for the doom 3 mod.

ps,same i love mac modes but never used a mac lol

 

[Kurlon]

Ideal Display

No idea how much it costs, although I bet it'll scare me. The inside of my case gives me 9.375" of width to work with, if I wanna scrape when it goes together. This display, 9.444" wide in it's enclosure. Hopfully plastic off it'd squeeze in.

I checked out Earth LCD, thier 10.4" LCDs are wide compared to the units I found initially... of course the ones I found also appear to be slightly too wide... Bah.

I'll just keep poking with Sketch 3D to come up with some rough assembly ideas for now I guess.

 

[Kurlon]

Ok, finally found the right model number to identify the 10.4" ebay displays. SK133A is close, the proper model is SK-151A. Googling turns up a ton of links in Japanese describing the display, including matching pictures. I can't find any dimensional specs, but the one detail that caught my eye, '16ms' is mentioned on nearly every page the monitor shows up on. Can't be all THAT bad can it? : ) The pages also confirm the native resoultion of 1024x768.

The big question now, is knowing most 10.4" LCDs will be too big to fit my case, and the next size down, 8" LCDs, have a dispaly smaller than what orriginally shipped in this box, do I try to graft the larger display into this case, trying to intergrate a larger front for the monitor? Or do I throw the thing out the window completely and build a new case matching it's design?

(8" TRUE 1024x768 displays... 163dpi, still not IBM scary 300dpi, but an improvement over my 17"'s 128dpi.)

 

[FLECOM]

what aboat that place that sky got his for the doom 3 mod.

ps,same i love mac modes but never used a mac lol

i think they gave it to him, normally its some inane amount of money, like $800 or something

i want to do a similar mod with my Macintosh ColorClassic (thats a rare one!)

but g4 cube parts are near impossible to find anymore... and expensive

 

[Tos]

I like where this is going, I'll watch any progress ! XD

keep on this way

Off Topic : good luck FLECOM with your G4 cube

 

[The_Mage18]

Check on eBay, there are usually tons of parts. I hate to give credit to them but when you're despirate (I was young!! I NEEDED the video card!! LAY OFF MAN!!! *SOB*)

 

[Petra]

Hey Kurlon, I know I haven't posted a real worklog update for a couple of weeks, but I'm in the middle of my SuperCube project...so if you need any help/tips/insight (Cube hardware, electrical, or whatnot) just let me know and I'll be more than happy to assist.

 

[Kurlon]

Petra - I'll take all the help I can get! : )

Display fun, random ideas: It's 2am, I shouldn't be up, so of course my mind isn't working right. Seeing as I can't find a display that matches my goals, I'm thinking of 'making' one. Specifically, get the smaller 8" LCD, rip the backlight off, and I should have a transparent LCD at that point, yes? Why couldn't I build a small scale 'projection' tv setup inside the case? I should be able to do it small enough that its still less room than a CRT, and I can they set the final image size to whatever I want. Am I crazy or do I have a snowballs chance in hell of pulling this off? : )

 

[Tos]

snowball's chance in hell I'd say ^^;

 

[Kurlon]

snowball's chance in hell I'd say ^^;

Considering I just verified the native resolution on those 8" displays is 800x400, I think you're right. Bleh. Would have been kinda cool though, yeah, check out my rear projection SE/G4. Then I do the two hand snap and point manuver, and all teh ladiez is m1n3!

 

[Kurlon]

Playing around with SketchUp 3D, did I mention I love this app? Oh, right, SE/G4... so, playing with that app, I redid it with an expanded display box ala LC475's, etc. I belive the Color Classic did this as well, but the entire front was wider than the main housing top to botom, and I don't like that look. Initially I thought I'd be loosing the classic compact look, but seeing it in 3D, it feels like what an early rev LC575 would have looked like if developed along side the SE, which I think works.

Opinions?

I think the key will be keeping the expansion size to a minimum lest the display overwhelm the rest of the case. The tricky part will be blending in the expanded section's texture with the existing one on the case. That and getting the color to match. Other option is to purposely not match, do the display section in metal?

 

[Tos]

looks nice, even though I would bondo' up some more to make a smoother transition ( slope instead of right angle drop on the back parts of the extensions )

 

[ProphetSix]

I like it, looks good. And I'd keep the hard angles. Goes with the time-frame of the unit.

1) Texture: Sand everything smooth so it's all one texture. Then no mis-match.
2) Color: Who cares? You just sanded the damn thing. Should be ready for primer and a fresh coat of paint, right? Then you have a choice: paint it to match the original color, or go with something new. (I remembe rseeing a Mac SE/30'ish model one time painted Dodge blue with white rally stipes on it. Looked totally sweet.)

 

[CrimsonSky]

I would say hold off until you've exhausted all avenues of research with the lcd--before you give up on the 10" rebuild. In my experience with the ABS plastic that the housing is made from, sanding the case to roughen the surface and reinforcing with strips of fiberglass is a good method. You can get a great "Bondo" brand fiberglass repair kit at any home store, which includes a few yards of cloth and quick setting resin. It can be sanded glass smooth, or even top coated with auto body filler. You can even do these repairs from the inside of the case, preserving the outside finish.

Great project, I'm a big fan of watching rebuilds on old hardware-

 

[Kurlon]

I like it, looks good. And I'd keep the hard angles. Goes with the time-frame of the unit.

Agreed! This isn't an iFruit, it doesn't need no stinking curves.

1) Texture: Sand everything smooth so it's all one texture. Then no mis-match.

I dunno if I have the stamina and will power to sand that thing gloss smooth. So many little recesed surfaces, I don't think I could make it come out even. I was going to cheat and use the Krylon plastic 'dye' paint and do the main plastic in black. The back was going to be gloss black powdercoated metal. Given I might have to add on to the front, I'm thinking either gloss metal for the dirsplay frame, or Carbon Fiber for it and the rear panels. That and the textured plastic in black I think would be a good combo?

 

[ProphetSix]

I dunno if I have the stamina and will power to sand that thing gloss smooth.

Wrong idea, it doesn't need to be gloss smooth. Just need to knock down the "orange peal" texture. Trust me, it won't take long. Sand it down with some 240 grit, (wet sand would be good), and dry it off. Then spray a coat of primer. Let it dry and sand again with 400. Done.

The first sanding knocks down the high spots. The primer fills in the low spots. The last sanding takes care of any imperfections from the spray of the primer. Now, it's smooth and primered, ready for anything. You only need to comtinue the primer, sand, primer, sand, paint, sand ect steps if you're going for a mirror finish, which I don't think you are, so you don't. One sand, one primer, one re-sand should do it for you.

 

[Kurlon]

So, got a quote on what may have been the idea display, 10.4" XGA LCD, 240mm wide in case, VGA + SVideo input...

Guess the price.

$240 on ebay for 10.4" LCD monitors that do VGA (1024x768) + Video with built in tuners

$300 for a 12" XGA kit from Earth LCD

$5000 for the Sunlight10x display. I haven't a freaking clue why they are able to charge so much, but appearently, people pay for those things. I didn't dare ask what shipping would be. "Erm, well, first we need to comission a boat design..."

Looking over the dimensions of 10.4" displays, I'm not convinced I'll have enough border/bezil around the screen to match the look of the rest of the unit. While going too big with the expansion is a potential problem, I think putting in a detail thats too 'delicate' poses the same risk. If you look at this the bezil is clipping the image on the sides. Trimming it back further would eliminate most of the bezil thats left. Plus, I'm starting to form a bias for the expanded look... that plus the color should make it stand out while still staying 'true' to its roots. It would also make this machine more my own than just a hop up. Given how hard it is to find a display, I think my decision is made anyways.

More refrence material - lc5xx series:

Color Classic - Never liked the look of these:

Twentieth Anniversary - Apple's last 'Compact' before the iMac line

RE Painting, how well will that finish hold up? I'm big on functional designs. I don't want something that I'm afraid to brush up against for fear of scuffing off paint. The Krylon technique appealed to me as it'd be simple and rugged.

Note from FLECOM: do not hotlink images, host them yourself
My bad, transfered copies to my 386 and am self hosting. If [H] caught any flack, direct them to me and I'll grovel for forgiveness.

 

[ProphetSix]

Paint: It'll be as durable as any other painted case. It'll scuff if you bump it hard enough. Could do a couple of coats of color, and a couple of coats of clear to help protect it. Just remember, scars add "character".

 

[Kurlon]

Decided that my ipaq-ia1 internet appliance hadn't done anything of value for the past year, and gutted it. This gives me an approx 10" passive 800x600 LCD that will just fit within the case. Not exactly ideal, but I haven't found anything better that doesn't cost 4 digits yet. I'll have to make sure to setup a second display output on the back of the machine.

LCD - still has framing from the ipaq on it, just sits inside the front plastic

Not much to see, but the LCD is behind the plastic, will only need to trim the bezil minimally

Now I just need to get the rest of the framing off, id the display, and hope I can a suitable controller from EarthLCD without going bankrupt. If it's more than $100 I may gamble on one of the 10.4" LCDs I found on ebay earlier. Here's to hoping!

 

[Kurlon]

Hitachi SX25S004
10.0" Diagaonal Display
Passive Matrix
800x600

It JUST fits the case, but due to the cabling setup, it will require a SMALL bulge on one side of the case. I haven't talked to EarthLCD yet, but looking over their controller collection, it looks like I'm spending $200 minimum to interface this unit to VGA. That plus an asymetric blivit on the side of the case, I highly suspect I'm going to find a 12" display and just enlarge the display area as planned. If anyone knows of a cheaper place to source controllers, I'm all ears.

 

[Kurlon]

Struck out finding a controller for the Hitachi... back to the drawing board. EarthLCD has this unit for $400, or I can get the same LCD and controller for $300 'in the raw.' 1024x768, autoscaling, 16mil color, 40ms max response time. Ok, so that last one isn't exactly stupendous.

'iso' view

back view

The display appears to be a near match to the design I mocked up, except for being a flush front instead of a deeply inset bezil. It wouldn't take much to chop the case and adapt this display into it. Question now, do I spend $400 on it, $300 and try to make the frame myself, or $240ish on eBay and get an unknown quality unit?

$240 off eBay, includes svideo / tuner / remote 10.4" 1024x768 16ms

Based on the picture, and the dimensions of known 10.4" 1024x768 panels, it won't fit into my SE/30 even with all the fluff and plastic removed. I'll have to make the display 'box' like I mocked up. While working on that I have a functional TV and mini monitor...

I hate making decisions... I think it's poll time.

 

[Kurlon]

Not much has happened with my project. I'm still trying to find the right display. I'm at the point where I may settle for an 800x600 or even 640x480 if it's cheap and will fit.

While I've been searching, Apple has released the Mac mini, which screams to be used in a project like this. With the mini, I could stuff it in the base, use a CRT for my display, and still have room in the case for all the power supplies. This is tempting, especially when you consider how cheap the mini is compared to used G4 Cubes... but I don't think it's the right fit for what I want to accomplish.

Given that the internal display on this unit may be substandard, having support for a second monitor is a must. That alone disqualifies the mini. Using a Cube also opens up the possibility of dual cpus, a definite plus. Not to mention multiple DIMM slots, etc.

The mini brings a faster FSB, faster RAM. It also has USB 2.0 slots, as well as a standard line out jack. Having standard line out for audio is a nice win as the Cube only has USB 1.1, and you have to use that for audio... or a FW audio unit... which is spendy.

In the end, I think a cube will better serve me, so I'm going to continue my planning based on the assumption that I need to fit a cube in the box.

The other interesting development is a G5 inspired cube in an SE conversion:
Gallery 1
Gallery 2

A couple of the ideas used here match what I had in my head for this project. He redid the front lower panel using mesh work. I don't believe I'm going to mount the CDROM that low, I was hoping to use the existing floppy slot, but that depends on how far the cube guts intrude. I don't intend to redo under the CRT as he did, I want to maintain the lines as they are part of the machine's mystique.

On the back, he's cut out the majority, using it as vent space. I intend to do similar, but am going to use it as a large heatsink for passive cooling to try and keep things quiet. I like the smoothed over ports bay, that i'll defiantly have to duplicate.

I see no need for the fan on top as he's done, the cube was designed to be passive in a far smaller enclosure than the SE, and I intend to provide a bigger radiant surface for it to cool via, so I'll go passive if I can. If not, I'll use a thermally regulated fan to keep the noise down.

Lastly, this person went with white, I'm thinking black, possibly with carbon fiber highlights. : )

(Oh, sold my original frankenmac, and now have a dual G5, it and my Xeon box are currently engaged in a pissing contest...)

 

[lamarth]

Dang.... I hope you come up with something- I can understand the frustration you're going thru trying to find something to fit both the case and your wallet...

 

[Kurlon]

Remember I quip'd earlier about setting up a projector inside the case so I could get away with small LCDs...

Mitsubishi comes to the rescue

That, and a Mini, using a splitter cable to hopefully allow dual monitors (DVI-D external, analog internal) and I'd have room leftover in the case. Question now, do most projectors support screen mirroring so it'll behave as a rear projector instead of a front projector?

 

[uzor]

Yes, most projectors (that I have worked with, anyways) support mirroring to do this.... but this is not your average projector. Might want to see if you can scare up a tech page on it.

 

[Kurlon]

http://linitx.com/product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=554

I think it'd fit. I have 238mm of room, they claim the unit, plastic and all is 220mm wide.

I think it's time to dredge this project back up and get moving again. While it's been dormant, cpus have advanced a good ways, and Apple has announced a shift to Intel CPUs in the future... Cube prices have stayed stupid high, so do I take the low road and make this an x86 box? (Dualcore of course. ) Or should I stick to false ideals and ram a G4 or two down this boxes throat willing or not?