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PPU Enable Without More Polys

C

Chameleoki

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Messages
479
What I'd like to see, and not sure why they didn't with GRAW, would be the PPU used to do bullet physics. Add some wind, penetration materials, gun recoil, etc, would add up to realistic bullet drop and variation WITHOUT any more polygons! You could also have the power of the gun (ie a 2000 feet-per-second volocity M-16 vs. a 9mm pistol).

Multiply those calculations by a full-auto gun and you've got your use of a PPU for thousands of objects.

Seems like an "easy" mod to do and I would love the added realism.
 
I would think that for doing physics simulation on an object going at 2000 feet per second, that you would need a VERY high sampling rate in order to get good results on how it impacts things, etc, etc.
 
I'd like to see *gasp* actual damage models for vehicles. If the engine is hit it should stop or work poorly. The structure should be fully damageable. Flight sims have had this for awhile and it's absolutely inexcusable to see a scratch less vehicle suddenly disappear only to be instantly replaced with a crappy "dead" model just because it's hitpoints reached zero. Armor penetration should be taken into account.
 
well... at any rate, an actual bullet (richochets and all) would be better than an instantanius death ray. I agree that auto related games need a much better damage system. because the exterior of the car has no effect on its performance (excluding aerodynamic, wich is not that necisary) although if it hits the functional components (such as tires or cooling fan) then they would be ruined. things like windows could crack (windshields dont shatter the same.) It would be awesome to see an automotive game designed with actual components in mind.
 
Chameleoki said:
What I'd like to see, and not sure why they didn't with GRAW, would be the PPU used to do bullet physics. Add some wind, penetration materials, gun recoil, etc, would add up to realistic bullet drop and variation WITHOUT any more polygons! You could also have the power of the gun (ie a 2000 feet-per-second volocity M-16 vs. a 9mm pistol).

Multiply those calculations by a full-auto gun and you've got your use of a PPU for thousands of objects.

Seems like an "easy" mod to do and I would love the added realism.
Click to expand...



You mean basically what TRIBES did a decade ago? :p
 
nhusby said:
well... at any rate, an actual bullet (richochets and all) would be better than an instantanius death ray.
Click to expand...
A game that has bullet ricochets and other ways to die from completely random fire will never be popular. It may be realisitc, but in the end for most people it won't be fun. People already call BS all the time when they get killed (sometimes rightly so due to lag and other odd things) and with bullets bouncing around all over the place people would dismiss such a game.
 
I mostly agree with you. if a game were to implement richochets it would have to be limited (both in quantity of occurence, and amount of damage.) (IMHO) it would add another level of realism. for instance if someone like me with horrible aim goes into a bunker guns a blazing, people (self included) are gunna die LoL.
 
I would love for phics to play in at EVERY single ricochet...
The resaon:
In the army I was trained to low in the target.
If you aimed too low the "opspring"(ground ricochet in english) wwould have a very high chance of hitting the target anyways.
If a guy ducked behind a low wall, with a higher wall behind?
Spray the tall wall with bullets and hear the "dance of ricochets"
Hell a single round INTO a tank via a open hacth can take out the entire crew...

And I want things like realistic blast/fragment damage...and near-miss-damage.
Some rounds do need to hit in order to do damage.
Just a close miss will transfer energy...

Terra - I miss the "feel" for the bullet-trajectory, like you have IRL...
 
dotK said:
A game that has bullet ricochets and other ways to die from completely random fire will never be popular. It may be realisitc, but in the end for most people it won't be fun. People already call BS all the time when they get killed (sometimes rightly so due to lag and other odd things) and with bullets bouncing around all over the place people would dismiss such a game.
Click to expand...

HL1 had this implemented in one of the guns (I can't believe i forgot the name!) so it was already possible a long time ago. Maybe someone can make a mod in one of the newer engines and we can try it out?
 
i like the 'general idea' of adding physics where they need to be w/o increasing the poly count. However, the implementation will be difficult.
 
dotK said:
A game that has bullet ricochets and other ways to die from completely random fire will never be popular. It may be realisitc, but in the end for most people it won't be fun. People already call BS all the time when they get killed (sometimes rightly so due to lag and other odd things) and with bullets bouncing around all over the place people would dismiss such a game.
Click to expand...

It would be comparable to a game with realistic grenades, which would pretty much turn games into spammy mindless garbage.

Sly said:
HL1 had this implemented in one of the guns (I can't believe i forgot the name!) so it was already possible a long time ago. Maybe someone can make a mod in one of the newer engines and we can try it out?
Click to expand...

The gauss gun? But that was only hitscan, no physics involved.
 
hughJ said:
The gauss gun? But that was only hitscan, no physics involved.
Click to expand...

*shrugs* it's a ricochette :D That was just in response to the kind of firefight we'll get with bouncing bullets. If you want another early ricochetting weapon that doesn't use hitscans, there's the one from the original Unreal :p
 
Terra said:
I would love for phics to play in at EVERY single ricochet...
The resaon:
In the army I was trained to low in the target.
If you aimed too low the "opspring"(ground ricochet in english) wwould have a very high chance of hitting the target anyways.
If a guy ducked behind a low wall, with a higher wall behind?
Spray the tall wall with bullets and hear the "dance of ricochets"
Hell a single round INTO a tank via a open hacth can take out the entire crew...

And I want things like realistic blast/fragment damage...and near-miss-damage.
Some rounds do need to hit in order to do damage.
Just a close miss will transfer energy...

Terra - I miss the "feel" for the bullet-trajectory, like you have IRL...
Click to expand...
Awesome ideas, that really makes me think. I would love to see that, although in futuristic games with rapid fire weapons, that might create issues. However, if the trajectory of every projectile had to be tracked, there is no way you will ever see that in a multiplayer game.
 
I think some people here think richochets happen every time you fire a gun. If you fire into a wall, the bullet compresses and all it's velocity is transfered to the wall, and the lead drops to the ground pretty harmless. You would have to be shooting at a pretty wicked angle to get a single richochet and multiple richochets off the same bullet would be rare, unless you were shooting rubber bullets!

Anyways, as far as the people being mad that a grenade killed them, I think for the most part, grenades would be LESS lethal than in most games. Most games they are the hollywood style with a large radius.

I for one would love to know that some random calculation that the developer made didn't kill me, but an actual physical, realistic situation killed me. But, I know I'm the minority because I love realistic games like Ghost Recon and such. People love their hitscan weapons and love to AWP while jumping.
 
Chameleoki said:
I think some people here think richochets happen every time you fire a gun. If you fire into a wall, the bullet compresses and all it's velocity is transfered to the wall, and the lead drops to the ground pretty harmless. You would have to be shooting at a pretty wicked angle to get a single richochet and multiple richochets off the same bullet would be rare, unless you were shooting rubber bullets!
Click to expand...

well then, wouldn't that be a nice way to use the PhysX engine to compute this stuff?
 
Indeed, which was my point. I got the impression from some of the posts that they didn't want to do it because they thought there would be too many richochets.
 
I know very little about actual guns, but I do know richochets are kind of rare... depends on alot of things. but maybe a special weapon that acted like it had rubber bullets would be a fun game weapon...

how rare is it though? if someone shot a machine gun into a tank, I think some richochets would occur. alot of multiplayer games have machine guns in underground bunker looking maps with steel looking walls...

also...
I for one would love to know that some random calculation that the developer made didn't kill me, but an actual physical, realistic situation killed me. But, I know I'm the minority because I love realistic games like Ghost Recon and such. People love their hitscan weapons and love to AWP while jumping.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
One vector calculation per bullet isn't that much.

Unless you were prepared to code zones into your engine/maps and have each zone have different wind directions, or have dynamically changing wind.

Not sure if thats desireable for anything other than sniping in long range games.
 
Chameleoki said:
I think for the most part, grenades would be LESS lethal than in most games. Most games they are the hollywood style with a large radius.
Click to expand...

What games are you playing that have large radius hand grenades?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade

That's 16.4 feet for killing radius, 82 feet for casualty, and fragments possible as far as 754 feet. Most games I've played don't have any grenade damage at all beyond maybe 15-20 feet.
 
That's 16.4 feet for killing radius, 82 feet for casualty, and fragments possible as far as 754 feet. Most games I've played don't have any grenade damage at all beyond maybe 15-20 feet.
Click to expand...

Yeh, I believe even in America's Army, which has to be one of the most realistic games, only gives you damage at max 20 feet. I would love to see some physics in there, you already run slower when you injure your legs, how about limping cause a piece of shrapnal is stuck in your calf.
 
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