Possible AMD64 System - Everyone please comment

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PrometheuSBoxeR

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
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Posting a possible PC to come. What do you think when its all put together said and done. Overclocking, compatability, all around parts, alternative parts etc. and if you have any advice to my questions, great.

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811112025
Lian Li PC-61Black - With all this hardware inside is this a safe purchase? Is cooling inside effective even though its only 4 80mm Fans? If I plan to watercool in the future is this case a option?

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813136152
DFI Ultra-D S939 - Reading reviews it seems that the bios these things come with is a problem. I don't know how to CMOS bios or update them etc. am i going to be ok? I also heard you can upgrade to SLI modding this somehow?

Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103546
AMD 64 X2 4400+ Toledo Core - I have heard a lot of good about this CPU, using my computer for gaming and dvd encoding and burning and other misc apps.. I figured this was the right choice. Hopefully It will also help future proof my setup when Multi-Threaded games are popular.

Processor Heatsink: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835109122
XP-90C - As far as I know this thing is supposed to be a beast. All copper and such, pretty expensive but im hopping to OC the CPU nicly with this on air. I think there was another option I hear alot about a Zalaman cooler to cool the PC.. not sure about them?

Processor Heatsink Fan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835180088
92mm Panasonic Panaflo - Heard only good things about them. Ive heard about these and Deltas? Not sure.

Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814130248
eVGA 7800GTX - Not sure why this one is cheaper then the others, the specs seem to be the same. It says retail so im not exactly sure. Looks good so far, 7800GTX's are beast. Mabey in the near future im looking to mod the Ultra-D mobo to SLI and hook two of these bad boys up?

Video Card Cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835118117
Zalaman ZF700 - Reading the reviews on these things, they are supposed to work terrific. Get a nice OC on my GPU and keep nice temps while doing so?

Power Supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817104152
OCZ 520W PowerStream - OCZ makes quality stuff, this is supposed to be a rock solid PSU. Not sure how would hold up if I SLI 7800GTX's on it. Other then that this thing is supposed to be great.

Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820146578
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (1GB x 2) - Heard alot about these things, supposed to be some of the best 1GB sticks money can buy. Hopefully can get a nice overclock on these as well and have them preform nicely as well. I was also pondering the 2GB set from G.SKILL they are fairly new released.

Harddrive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822144185
Maxtor MaXLine III 250GB (x2) - Two of these bad boys I think will do nicly. 16mb Cache, nice storage, quiet etc. Im thinking of either 1 for gaming and OC and such, and the other for storage and media. Or i could always set them up in RAID 0 and see how that works for preformance right?

Drives: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16827106988
Lite-On DVD Burner (x2) - I like to burn DVD's a lot, and these things can also read DVD's let alone burn. So im thinking whatever im doing i can always make use to both really. I would also like to be able to burn 2 DVD's at once, Saves me a lot of time and hassle.

I think that about covers it all. Again please tell me what do you think when its all put together said and done. Overclocking, compatability, all around parts, alternative parts etc. and if you have any advice to my questions, great.

PS: The Total comes to $2200.00 on Newegg.

PrometheuSBoxeR
 
The case is definatley fine. You cant go wrong with a Li-Li. Everything else seems great, but I always recommend a SeaSonic psu just because they are generally quiet and they are the most efficient psus around. Either the s12-430 or s12-500 will do you fine. And about the video card, dont worry about the price. The only real difference is, the more expensive ones are slightly OCed, or some may include a game in the bundle. Honestly, I always search for either the cheapest or second cheapest GPU with good reviews, becase I dont see the point spending the money on the most expensive GPU when you can afford the next one up with the same or even less money. But when it comes to the 7800GTX, since there is no higher, you could go all out if you really wanted.

Other than that, you seem to know what youre doing. Dont need much help from us.
 
Great except I wouldn't go for RAID 0. It's a myth that it will increase performance for a normal user. If you want blazing fast performance get a 74GB Raptor and a large drive for storage.
 
S1nF1xx said:
Great except I wouldn't go for RAID 0. It's a myth that it will increase performance for a normal user. If you want blazing fast performance get a 74GB Raptor and a large drive for storage.
Click to expand...
The 16mb maxtors are supposedly faster than raptors.
 
Wow, you're one of the first people here that really knows exactly what they're doing. :p Everything looks pretty awesome to me. But a few corrections. 1) It used to be that the DFI was moddable to SLI, but nVidia made sure you couldn't do it with their drivers. Sucks, I know. If you wan't SLI capability, get this. And for the video card, I'd just get a GT model. It's ~$100 cheaper and almost as good. Plus it's a good overclocker. ;) Other than that..good choices!
 
sc00ter said:
Wow, you're one of the first people here that really knows exactly what they're doing. :p Everything looks pretty awesome to me. But a few corrections. 1) It used to be that the DFI was moddable to SLI, but nVidia made sure you couldn't do it with their drivers. Sucks, I know. If you wan't SLI capability, get this. And for the video card, I'd just get a GT model. It's ~$100 cheaper and almost as good. Plus it's a good overclocker. ;) Other than that..good choices!
Click to expand...
Alot of people complain about the faulty chipset fan on the a8n deluxe. Not sure if that specific li-li holds the mobo upside down but, if it doesnt go with the a8n premium instead.
 
I would go with the xp90 regular. It is a LOT lighter and the performance from most reviews rate it on par with the copper version. I personally have it and my cpu never goes above 42 on full load.(amd64 3500 130nm). Looking at your setup this is obviously not a money issue, but it would definetely be easier on your motherboard.
 
Again, I would wait for the Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe. It will have many more features and the ability for 2x 16X SLI (it might not be a big performace boost over the 8x, but it will help a lot down the line). Seasonic does make great PSUs, but the only problem with them is their cables are short.
 
Do we have any idea when that boards going to be coming out? If it's sometime relatively soon, I agree that you should wait for it. So-called "true SLI" should be a big plus.
 
The DFI NF4 Ultra-d is the best overclockers board. However, as you have mentioned, it has some problems and you may have to do a little tweaking to get it to work properly. You can go to DFI-Street forums if you do run into trouble. After you get past this the board is unmatched in overclocking potential.

The XP-90C is not really a bad choice at all, however, I highly suggest checking out the TT Big Typhoon. With the X2 CPU's it seems to cool the best out of any and I believe it is around the same price or even cheaper then the XP-90C. It definitely performs better. If you do plan on going with a heatsink that requires its own fan I would highly recommend the Delta Tri-Blades. They perform similair to the high speed Panaflos, but are a little bit quieter.

Normally I would suggest buying cheaper RAM, but since it seems like you have the budget for it and want to do some serious overclocking, that RAM is fine. I normally just suggest Value RAM because 'performance' RAM does not really offer a very large difference as opposed to something like the next level video card.

Don't even bother with RAID-0 at all. Here is what I said in another thread:

In some games, RAID-0 can help substantially. Such games benefit from the increased sequential tranfer rate because the maps that are loaded are just huge bitmaps. However, I do agree that for the most part RAID-0 is a bad idea. Many games may actually suffer from the increased seek time while using a RAID-0 array. In HD performance, for most uses, seek time is the dominating factor. The actual time spent reading or writing to the drives platter is pretty minute in most cases.

There are certain places where RAID-0 may be a good idea, however, the vast majority will not benefit from it and use it for the wrong reason. They only suffer from a derease in reliability and worsened seek times.
Click to expand...

I would just use the two drives seperately. I like having an 80GB for OS & Appplications, while having another much larger drive for storage.

I don't ppay attention much to the latest DVD burners, but the NEC 3540A seems to be the most popular. I would read reviews about it. I am not saying it is better then the Lite-On at all. I am just saying, take it into consideration.

Other then what I mentioned everything looks good. The case, PSU, CPU etc. are all good.
 
Ok to address a few things:
1) I have been keeping my eye on the Gigabyte Aurora
http://www.systemcooling.com/gigabyte_3daurora-02.html
It looks pretty impressive to the eye, and I like 120mm fans over 80mm fans anyday. It has a cool features for watercooling as well. Watercooling is a option I have been considering although im very unseasoned in that area. I don't know much to be honest. I am also considering spending the cash and investing in the Lian Li V1000B or Lian Li V2000B. They are much more expensive, but as some people would say... Why put 2000 dollars worth of equipment into something you can't trust. By purchasing a case like that, its a upgrade that will not need to be considered for the longest time, nor will you have any doubt that your equipment is unsafe etc.

2) For now with the idea of quality air cooling in mind. The XP-90, XP-90C, XP-120, SI-120, and The Ninja Scythe are all options. I have recently heard from various areas that the Ninja Scythe and SI-120 is not one to be messed with. I have never used a heatsink that is not stock so im unaware of what actually the differences are, what you look for, what you get for the price etc.

3) 7800GTX vs 7800GT The price different is marginal however, the 20 pipelines vs 24 pipelines catchs my eye. I have read that the pipeline different is going to be crucial in up comming games. Im not exactly sure on all the specific specs that are under the face of the video card. But I have my eye set on the 7800GTX for now. If someone can steer me a different way I may consider otherwise. 7800GT in SLi is not all that expensive when you look at the other options.

4) The motherboard. I have always used ASUS motherboards and have limited experience with overclocking. However its something I want to get into and get great preformance out of my PC without spending a arm and a leg. DFI sounds to be king and all of the forums I have read they are the overclockers of all time. It will take me some time to get up and ready because of my inexperience but once I get the gist of whats going on and what they have to offer, it sounds like a winner to me. The DFI Ultra-D seems to be number 1. Does the DFI SLi-DR overclock just the same, and keep the same stability and such? On the topic of stability DFI does not have a issue with it do they? What is the point of having a overclocked system if your motherboard is not even stable. I dont want any random crash's and things of that nature.

5) The Powersupply is a big part of a system. You definitly can't go cheap on it or you will regret it forever. The OCZ PowerStream seems to be exactly what i'm looking for. However you have drawn to my attention that SeaSonic makes some quality stuff. I have other options - I can spend the money and get a PC&C 510 (Probably will never have to upgrade that beast ever lol), Fortron 500W Blue Storm, and other Sparkle/SeaSonic products. They all seem to be very rock solid PSU's. However the OCZ PowerStream still seems to catch my eye. OCZ seems like a good brand to buy from.

6) Raid 0 Issue. Correct me if im wrong. Raid 0 is when 2 identical harddrives split the data on each one... supposdly increasing preformance. So half the data is on one, half is on the other. It sounds to me like Raid is not really a huge preformance gain or worth the money either way you look at it. I still seem to have my eye on the Maxtor Maxline III or a Western Digital 16mb cache drive. I will just use them regular and have 500GB of storage. 1 For the OS and mabey some file storage and the other for games and media. Something along those lines.

7) Burners - I think im going to take KoolDrew's advice on the NEC part. They have really great reviews and NEC have always made quality products. Including my 24inch CRT :) I will still be getting 2 for personal purposes and saving me time. For 40 bucks its worth the investment if you ask me. Either way NEC Burners seem great.

Anything I missed? Either way please give me your comments gentlemen and ladies. I appreciate it.

Thanks,
PrometheuSBoxeR
 
About the 7800GT, supposedly you can unlock the additional 4 pipes to match a GTX. But im not sure so I cant confirm it.
 
I cannot really comment on the case at all as I have never even heard of it.

As for the heatsink, like I said, I highly suggest the TT Big Typhoon. The more and more reviews I read about this think, the more impressive it is.

I would just stick with the 7800GTX. You can check out some reviews to see the difference between the two and decide yourself if it is worth or not, though.

The SLI version of that DFI board will overclock exactly the same.

I would stick with the OCZ Powerstream 520w. It is a very good PSU and is known for working well with the DFI board.

Also, yes, using RAID-0 will increase your sequential transfer rate, but for most things seek time is the dominating factor. With RAID-0 your seek time is worsened since each drive has to seek to their portion of the data. There are places for RAID-0, however, the vast majority won't benefit from it and use it for the wrong reason. It also significantly reduces reliability.
 
paintb4707 said:
About the 7800GT, supposedly you can unlock the additional 4 pipes to match a GTX. But im not sure so I cant confirm it.
Click to expand...

Can anybody back this up?
 
Case: sure why not

Mobo: ok. Might want to spring and get the SLI straight off. You have to physically connect two wires to make the ultra do sli (or something like that). Too much risk for me.

Processor: get a 3800+ X2 instaed. Will OC to the same OC that the 4400+ gets, but is a lot cheaper. Especially with that heatsink

Processor Heatsink: get a plain XP-90 instead. Will cool within a degree or two of the 90c, and weighs a lot less. Cheaper too.

Processor Heatsink Fan: panaflo = good

Video Card: good choice.

Video Card Cooler: good choice.

Power Supply: should work with SLI GTX's. A Seasonic s12-600 will be a very good choice. I have the s12-500 myself, but that's b/c I only have one PCI-E slot, no SLI for me.

Memory: good. You might also look into 1GB Crucial Value sticks. They overclock very well.

Harddrive: good choice. The 16mb cache is a good buy.

Drives: no problems here.

---------

OS?
Mouse?
Keyboard?
Monitor?
 
Mobo: ok. Might want to spring and get the SLI straight off. You have to physically connect two wires to make the ultra do sli (or something like that). Too much risk for me.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother with SLI unless you are positive you will be adding another card soon. Otherwise you would be better off saving your money and when the time comes just sell your single card and buy another one. In the end you would save money and get better performance.

Processor: get a 3800+ X2 instaed. Will OC to the same OC that the 4400+ gets, but is a lot cheaper. Especially with that heatsink
Click to expand...

The 4400+ also has extra cache. I am not saying your recommendation is bad, I am just making a point.

Processor Heatsink: get a plain XP-90 instead. Will cool within a degree or two of the 90c, and weighs a lot less. Cheaper too.
Click to expand...

Not a bad recomendation, but I highly recommend the TT Big Typhoon if you really wantr to push that X2.

Processor Heatsink Fan: panaflo = good
Click to expand...

Delta=Better.
 
Russ said:
Case: sure why not
OS?
Mouse?
Keyboard?
Monitor?
Click to expand...

I currently have Windows XP Home that is all. I always hate spending money on a O/S. Professional or Windows x64 seems like its a better O/S I know...
Im gonna be looking into purchasing a Razor Copperhead or a Logitech G5 Laser mouse.
Keyboard: Microsoft Standard PS/2
Monitor: I have a NEC 24inch CRT UltraBright
 
Eh, there aren't any huge differences between Pro and Home anyway. As far as everything else goes, here's my two cents:

SLI is a waste. Yes it's true that it boosts performance by "up to 80%", but the only thing it's really good for is acting like Viagra for your e-penis.

I'd stick with the Powerstream. It works very well with the DFI and is plenty powerful for all the components plus overlocking. But if you want to change, PC P&C is also very good.

I'd go with the 4400. It's not a lot more expensive than the 3800 and the extra cache'll help.

Any of those coolers will work perfectly fine. The Big Typhoon is supposed to be really good, but then, so is the Hyperion(sp?) 6. I'd just get an XP-90 with a Delta and/or Panaflo.

Considering your budget, a 7800GTX doesn't seem very outlandish. Just go with it. You'll probably be happier in the long run.
 
sc00ter said:
SLI is a waste. Yes it's true that it boosts performance by "up to 80%", but the only thing it's really good for is acting like Viagra for your e-penis..
Click to expand...

Didnt you start a thread asking why SLI is useful? To make a long story short, SLI is for those who would like to play the high-end games in LARGE resolutions. A single 7800GTX can handle FEAR in maxed settings, but only dual 7800s can handle maxed settings in the highest resolution. I believe the other question was, what are the benefits of high resolution. Graphic quality, graphic quality, graphic quality. Its amazing how much better the graphics can look when you compare the same settings between 1024x768 and 1028x1024. Its something you have to try for youself to see.
 
I think the XP-90 regular sounds like a good buy. Its lighter and in a degree or two of the XP-90C. Not to mention its about 15-20 dollars cheaper depending. Paired with a 92mm Delta 3 Fan blade it should be good. I have heard that the Maxtor MaxLine III have a bit of noise to them? Can anyone assure this, because id like to keep the noise to a minimum, I don't want to hear a whine or anything like that constantly. As for the 7800GTX... Yeah I agree im just gonna go with 1 of them. I don't plan to do SLi in the near future for mabey ever... depending. I'll save money on the SLI mobo as well by going with the Ultra-D. Again this is all controversial. Addressing the CPU - I have always had my eyes on the 4400+ Toledos. They seem to clock nicly and the cache might help in the near future / long run with multithreaded games and other apps. Whats a fair assumtion I can expect a 4400+ to clock at with a XP-90 and a Delta to? My guess is 2.7? Overall I just want a nice future proof system that will last me through my years of college. I don't want to upgrade in a couple years at least.
 
No, don't get X64. The only thing it helps in is 64 bit apps, which are not in abundance right now. Just get XP for now and upgrade to Vista down the road.
 
PrometheuSBoxeR said:
Ok to address a few things:


5) The Powersupply is a big part of a system. You definitly can't go cheap on it or you will regret it forever. The OCZ PowerStream seems to be exactly what i'm looking for. However you have drawn to my attention that SeaSonic makes some quality stuff. I have other options - I can spend the money and get a PC&C 510 (Probably will never have to upgrade that beast ever lol), Fortron 500W Blue Storm, and other Sparkle/SeaSonic products. They all seem to be very rock solid PSU's. However the OCZ PowerStream still seems to catch my eye. OCZ seems like a good brand to buy from.
Click to expand...

PCP&C 510 an ATX12V v1.3 compliant supply so tightly regulated (1% load) and so clean (5mV AC Ripple) as to totally exceed the reasons for the split rail seen in ATX12V v2.0 supplies

OCZ Powerstreams are infact TopowerP6 PSUs
http://www.dansdata.com/top686p6.htm & http://www.topower.com.tw/home/power_supply_atx12v.htm
they also exceed basic spec depending on the crossload youd see 1% > 3% load regulation (spec is 5%) and the REMIC (capacitors and ferrite beads) option on the main connector and the 2 SATA connectors and the auxillary 4 pin +12V will give it very good AC Ripple as well, but its an ATX12V v1.3 supply with a single rail (the 600 watt is a dual see last link) , the SLi\PCI-E connectors don't have the REMIC option.

The Seasonic S-12 also exceed spec and are very popular for thier efficiency (better than 80%) and how quiet they are

The Bluestorm is a very good budget choice of basic spec compliance


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/powerful-psu_10.html
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/powerful-psu_11.html

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/bluestorm.html

http://www.xbitlabs.com/web/display/20050829232500.html

sorry no crossload for the S-12 or 510
(generally a given they exceed the Powerstream but its very likely youd be in the "sweet spot" in any of these suuplies)
here is a trace of the (older 2003) PCP&C 510 its better these days, spec got tightened)
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=-270&type=expert&pid=15

and for the Seasonic S-12 600
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=106&type=expert&pid=4

and the conclusion from the last link
The PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI was simply rock solid. Voltage regulation was exceptional and the only reason the 5v rail is above 1% VR is down to the fact that the pot for adjusting the 5v rail was glued tight, otherwise I could have regulated it down to 5.02V. Quite frankly I would have been disappointed with any less of a performance from PC Power & Cooling, especially as it’s the most expensive in this roundup.

To my embarrassment, the Seasonic S12 surprised the hell out of me by giving a performance which rivals the Turbo-Cool 510 SLI, a unit that costs 70% more! Voltage regulation was the best of all four units and the +12V rails was second only to the 510 SLI. For a £100 power supply it is simply astounding how well it performs, especially considering how quiet it is.
Click to expand...

MaxPC did a stress test (which didnt include the S-12 or Bluestorm) where a simulated brownout dropped the VAC to 80, all the supplies tested shutdown with the exception of the Ultra (which should have going nearly out of spec on load regulation) and the PCP&C 510, which didnt even blink an eye, maintaining a rock solid +12.08V throughout the test.

the PCP&C is alot more expensive, it louder and will dump more heat into your room (all the same root cause) but for power quality its still the benchmark others are compared to, and you can address the sound issue with careul planning and modding (you can extend the PSU effectively with a duct and force feed it cooler air, with greater static pressure and airflow from larger quiter fans for instance, but you cant ship it like that :p )

one last note
the Topower and Seasonic are Rated at 40C
the Bluestorm's derating curve is likely Derate 2W / C° from 50C° to 25C°
or in other words youll drop 2 watts for each degree rise in temperature above 25C

the PCP&C is rated at 50C

Good Luck ;)

PS if you get the Powerstream beware the external pots
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article173-page4.html
adjust them with a decent Multimeter, dont trust the LEDs ;)
 
If you want the quietest fan, go with Panaflo/Nexus.
Click to expand...

The high speed Delta Tri-Blade (which is the one I was recommending) is quieter then the high speed Panaflo, but performs about the same. So, the Delta is the obvious better choice.
 
KoolDrew said:
The high speed Delta Tri-Blade (which is the one I was recommending) is quieter then the high speed Panaflo, but performs about the same. So, the Delta is the obvious better choice.
Click to expand...

Do you, perchance, work for Delta? :p Anyway, I've never used one, so I can't really compare, but I've had good experience with Panaflo. Still, I've *heard* a lot of good things about Delta. 'Sup to you.
 
KoolDrew said:
The high speed Delta Tri-Blade (which is the one I was recommending) is quieter then the high speed Panaflo, but performs about the same. So, the Delta is the obvious better choice.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the quiet Panaflos. There comes a point in fans where they just start to make noise, instead of actually doing good. If you want recommendations of great fans, check here.
 
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