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New PSU? Useless!!

B

BakedGoods

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 23, 2004
Messages
312
I just grabbed a new PSU because my old OEM had a 10-11.3 +12v rail. So I bought this new PSU, it got great reviews, awesome stable rails, nothing bad about yet. But when I installed it and checked the BIOS and Hardware monitoring programs it claims it's +12v rail is only 11.4 +/- .5 !!!

Are my monitors wrong? Why is the rail so low for being a best selling, top rated PSU? Sometimes programs have a hard time reading my CPU temp, so I'm assuming my sensors are just messed up.

What's the deal? I don't have a multimeter so I can't test it, is there anyway I can make sure these reading are correct before I RMA this? Do I have to run it for a bit before I see the true rails?

Thanks!
 
I just ran CPU-Burn In and the +12v got as low as 9.59v without crashing. What's the deal? Are the sensors just messed? Is 9v even possible without crashing?
 
A. which PSU did you buy.

B. Motherboard mounted monitoring chips are notoriously inaccurate. MBM5 shows my +12V rail at 11.49 v, but my fluke 77 shows it as 12.03, which one do you think I believe? :D
 
Ah yeah. Well I bought an Ultra X-Connect 500w. I'll play some games and hope it doesn't crash =)
 
Hmm, haven't heard much good about that PSU except how pretty it is. :( I'd see if I could swap it for a enermax, fortron, or sparkle of equal rating.
 
Well, my comp restarted after playing CS:S for about 10minutes. Guess I'll RMA this.
 
That chart is useless, and so are the vast majority of psu reviews out there. You have to get a lot more in depth than the vast majority of reviewers are equipped to do to really figure out whether the power supply is good or not. Take a look at one of the silentpcreview.com reviews for a good idea of how a psu should be reviewed. There are only about 5 reviewers out there right now that can give a competant review, and the moderator of the psu forum will back that up. In fact, Ice Czar is the one that first brought it to my attention.

Second, hardware monitoring programs are also useless. They are ALL incorrect. Right now my 12v line is 18.6 and I have a pc power and cooling 510 deluxe :p The only way to really get your actual voltages is to take a digital multimeter and put the black lead on a ground, and the red lead in a spot on an unused molex connector while the pc is under heavy load.

12v = yellow wire
5v = red wire
3.3v = orange wire

Thats the only way to get your true voltage.

Third, Ultra X is a powmax, and powmax psu's suck. While this one isnt a system killer to the extent that most powmax's are, it has taken out more than its fair share of computers. It is NOT a good supply.

Both the antec 480 neopower (a CWT model in actuality) and the OCZ 520 (a Topower unit) will do you well. Between those two I'd take the antec because it is more foward thinking (fully atx12v 2.0 compatible) and has a much better reputation. Silentpcreview reviewed both this and the OCZ i believe, take a look at those reviews and ask around some. But you'll find that both will handle your rig with no problem.

Hope that helps!
 
Hey, I've heard all those Powmax stories before =S But listen to this: I put the Ultra in a different copmuter (A7N8X-DX mobo) and it runs great! Steady 12.8v +12v rail, and while running CPU Burn-in it didn't even move!! Awesome, so it must be my DFI mobo not handling the voltages right, any suggestions on how to fix this?
 
BakedGoods said:
Hey, I've heard all those Powmax stories before =S But listen to this: I put the Ultra in a different copmuter (A7N8X-DX mobo) and it runs great! Steady 12.8v +12v rail, and while running CPU Burn-in it didn't even move!! Awesome, so it must be my DFI mobo not handling the voltages right, any suggestions on how to fix this?
Click to expand...

First I’d invest in a multi meter. Barring that, I’d be inclined to RMA the DFI on principal. If your new motherboard is really showing 12.8 I’d go borrow a meter and if 12.8 is a real reading I’d RMA that PSU as well.

I think I’d borrow the meter before the new motherboard also qualifies for RMA.

Just a thought.
 
Read the PSU sticky here, where it says to stay away from the Ultra-X's. Most PSU reviews are shit and the people writting them are not in any way qualified to do so. (Sorry for the S word). I actually saw a review recently someone was spouting where the testing involved putting the PSU in an old 1.4 comp, checking what the old BIOS told him the volts were and making sure everything worked. That was it. That was the basis for his "Extreme Ultra Uber Hardware award". Its why I dont trust much outside of [H], Procooling and anandtech. A decent methodology is the least you should expect in any review.

My Enermax 480 Coolergiants 12V rail is 11.92-12.03 all the time.
 
MikeP said:
Read the PSU sticky here, where it says to stay away from the Ultra-X's. Most PSU reviews are shit and the people writting them are not in any way qualified to do so. (Sorry for the S word). I actually saw a review recently someone was spouting where the testing involved putting the PSU in an old 1.4 comp, checking what the old BIOS told him the volts were and making sure everything worked. That was it. That was the basis for his "Extreme Ultra Uber Hardware award". Its why I dont trust much outside of [H], Procooling and anandtech. A decent methodology is the least you should expect in any review.

My Enermax 480 Coolergiants 12V rail is 11.92-12.03 all the time.
Click to expand...

I too read that review, I agree it was crap review. It’s hard to believe anyone could, would take one word of that seriously.

Your stated PSU voltages are within “tolerance” as they should be. 12.8 is on the edge of what Ice Czar calls a “brown board killer”. That was the main reason I suggested using a real meter to double check the voltage.

I’m beginning to see a pattern here on these Ultra X units. Actually the pattern seems to have been around, it’s just showing up here more and more.
 
I tried warning people....but on one listens because they are (music starts) "bliiinded by the lights...."

Why can't people grasp that a high quality 500w psu with cables sleeved, modularity, awesome case with windows, and LED fans just CANNOT I repeat CANNOT cost like $70?

There is a reason me and many others paid close to $300 for our psu's....
 
computerpro3 said:
I tried warning people....but on one listens because they are (music starts) "bliiinded by the lights...."

Why can't people grasp that a high quality 500w psu with cables sleeved, modularity, awesome case with windows, and LED fans just CANNOT I repeat CANNOT cost like $70?

There is a reason me and many others paid close to $300 for our psu's....
Click to expand...

I’ll take you case one-step further if you don’t mind.

Why on earth will people spend $500 on a video card, 250 or more on ram, 200 plus on a motherboard not to mention 600 to 900 for a CPU and then expect it all to work on a $70 PSU?

Worse, they then plug that sucker right into the wall! It’s like they have total faith that the power company has any control over the crap that passes for AC coming into the house.

I’ve been part of the Audio Video business since the mid 70’s and added computers in the mid 80’s. Why is it a customer who buys a $600 receiver has no problem buying something like a Monster Power “Clean Power” power distribution strip, but another customer who buys a $3000 super game machine won’t even consider such an expense.

This post from Ice makes a perfect case for such units:


http://www.dansdata.com/gz028.htm


Doubtful anyone will listen though, just more posts about which cheap PSU is the "best value" :rolleyes:
 
AWESOME! I figured out what happened, I noobed out! I forgot to connect the 4-pin cord into my motherboard, the PSU works like a charm =) 12.22 stable. Just awesome.

Sorry about wasting your time, I'm going to go OC this beast now =)
 
lol ..its almost like nobody who has common sense posted in this thread .. :rolleyes: (read: advice and suggestions seemingly totally ignored)

I am an avid preacher of getting quality psu's and a good UPS to plug into to boot .. but , as stated ..it would seem alot of peeps are into "whats a good CHEAP psu" mentality ..

..on the other side of that .. some of those el cheapo psu's last forever .. crap shoot tho
 
Meh, I read all the advice threads, and heard a lot about PSU brands, but from friends who had them, and good reviews I went with the XConnect. PC&C wasn't an option and the PowerStream I heard has a bad life cycle.

Anyway, I'm happy with my purchase, it's doing what I wanted and in the end that's all that matters.
 
BakedGoods said:
Anyway, I'm happy with my purchase, it's doing what I wanted and in the end that's all that matters.
Click to expand...
good deal ..and very true ..as long as you are happy with it , thats all that matters


..and hopefully a few months from now and beyond , you will still be happy with it.
 
BakedGoods said:
Meh, I read all the advice threads, and heard a lot about PSU brands, but from friends who had them, and good reviews I went with the XConnect. PC&C wasn't an option and the PowerStream I heard has a bad life cycle.

Anyway, I'm happy with my purchase, it's doing what I wanted and in the end that's all that matters.
Click to expand...

It did NOT get ANY good real reviews

if you've read all those powmax horror stories, maybe this will scare you some....

www.powmax.com

click on the power icon

:eek: :mad:
 
Yes, it's a powmax. And that means nothing. Sure they've had bad PSU's in the past, but the X-Connect has good very good reviews and awards. A good friend of mine has had an X-Connect since release--the blue one. It has not faultered from it's promised 12.2 rail since he's gotten it. Now, until you guys actually buy it and find that after a few months it dies fill me in. Until then your opinion doesn't amount to much.

Try to be open-minded people.

<sigh>
 
BakedGoods said:
Yes, it's a powmax. And that means nothing. Sure they've had bad PSU's in the past, but the X-Connect has good very good reviews and awards. A good friend of mine has had an X-Connect since release--the blue one. It has not faultered from it's promised 12.2 rail since he's gotten it. Now, until you guys actually buy it and find that after a few months it dies fill me in. Until then your opinion doesn't amount to much.

Try to be open-minded people.

<sigh>
Click to expand...

Well excuse the hell out of me. YOU asked for our opinions. Now you don’t want them.

On top of that you refuse to believe anecdotal evidence presented to you.

Then you ignore all the posted information in the “FAQS”

So you asked your questions here why?

Finally you ask that WE be open minded??????
 
BillR said:
Well excuse the hell out of me. YOU asked for our opinions. Now you don’t want them.

On top of that you refuse to believe anecdotal evidence presented to you.

Then you ignore all the posted information in the “FAQS”

So you asked your questions here why?

Finally you ask that WE be open minded??????
Click to expand...
When I initially posted this topic I tried to avoid mentioning the actual PSU itself, because I knew rather then getting help I would have been subjected to a lot of Ultra bashing.

I was right. The second I said I had an Ultra the only advice I received was "omgz itz a PWOMAX!!". That does little if anything to rectify a situation.

Thankfully, I posted on a different forum where the users seem less biased and more open-minded. It was there that within a few posts I found that rather then being Ultra's fault it was my own--I simply forgot to plug in a cable.

I've read the FAQ's as well as all the talk about them being PowMax's, thankfully that didn't phase me. With nothing but positive reviews and talking to users with first hand experience for over a few months span I knew which PSU to buy. I'm not sure what evidence you're talking about, because everything I've read from you guys sounds like assumptions and speculations, and neither is good when buying hardware.

I really appreciate the help that others have given though, I know you all mean well and I really appreciate it. I just wish that rather than some proving their opinion about an Ultra psu, they'd troubleshoot A psu, and help a poor noob like myself =)

After all, Einstein failed grade 6 =)

EDIT: I also wanted to meantion something: Yes, previous insight can prove useful when buying hardware, but hardware is ever changing. Companies with new ideas, better strategies. I loved ATi, and I knew nVidia made very poor cards. With this next generation nVidia has really kicked it up a notch, proving that they are still in the game. It's events like these that I beleive we should all be open to new possibilies. The High-Tech industry doesn't have room for biases. Close-minded thinking doesn't always promote growth =)
 
two points:

1. I'm not sure if you just read selectivley or something, but you keep saying it got good reviews.....here, I'll make it larger for you IT DID NOT GET GOOD REAL REVIEWS. Did you see it that time? Your statement is just a fallacy.

2. You're absolutley right, there is no room for bias in todays hardware world. I am sorry for not backing up my previous statements with pages and pages of facts. Here:

Cracking open the PSU, we find the heatsinks small and unimpressive, and the electronic component layout is not particularly tidy. While we're not overly concerned with presentation, the messy layout of components could inhibit airflow. The inside appearance of the unit does not instill great confidence, especially compared to some of the recent PSUs to pass through the lab.
Click to expand...

xconnect5.jpg


the inner fan grill is a frivolous addition that impacts both noise and cooling. The fancy grill blocks about half the available vent space. All grills pose some form of impedance to airflow from a spinning fan close to it. Not only does this cause reduced airflow, it creates extra turbulence and noise as well. It may look nice and aptly targets a genre of case modders, but it really isn't conducive to silent computing.
Click to expand...

Speaking of fans, the built-in ones aren't really anything to write home about
Click to expand...

xconnect6.jpg

Another shot -- you can see the heatsinks are just thin rails with small fins. Again, the clutter doesn't lend itself to good airflow
Click to expand...

the 12V line being consistently high. The 12V rail typically provides power to the motherboard (for the CPU), disk drives, fans, and cooling devices, so proper operation is very important. Although it may just be this particular sample and not a common trend of the X-Connect, it is a bit troubling. Throughout the range of test power output levels, the range was as follows:

+12V: 12.25 ~ 12.49V
+5V: 4.86~ 5.13V
+3.3V: 3.1 ~ 3.38V
Click to expand...

That's a HELL of a lot of fluctuation, and thats measured via hardware from sprc, one of the best psu review website out there (and don't even try to dispute it unless you want MOUNDS of info from me and every other person knowledgeable about psu's)

4. POWER FACTOR was poor, ranging from 0.6~0.69 depending upon the load. In simple terms, PF tells us how much AC power is lost to harmonics (unnecessary electromagnetic energy) while driving the PSU. While PF is not significant in terms of noise, heat or performance of the PC, it is relevant to electricity consumption and energy conservation. The aforementioned results indicates that the X-Connect is using passive PFC or no PFC at all. This results in greater electricity consumption than a unit with Active PFC. Given the cost of this unit, we'd like to see an Active PFC employed here, since there are cheaper units on the market that have Active PFC.
Click to expand...

. FAN VOLTAGE / NOISE : We generally consider 30 dBA/1m to be the maximum sound pressure a computer should emit before it is no longer "quiet." Unfortunately, the lowest sound pressure the X-Connect achieved was a rather dismal 33 dBA/1m. The good news is that if one were so inclined, a fan swap could result in a pretty quiet unit, but the stock X-Connect simply isn't very quiet at all. Below are sound recordings of the X-Connect, and also recordings of the Seasonic Tornado 400 Rev.A3 (a SPCR overachiever by any means) for reference:

...

The Ultra X-Connect at 65W is clearly much louder than the Seasonic Tornado, and has quite a bit more clatter and roughness to the overall sound. While the Tornado is a smooth, constant pfffff sound, the X-Connect has an unpleasant mechanical intensity. Overall, the Tornado is much smoother and more subdued. We didn't include sound clips for the X-Connect at 90W and 150W levels, as they're almost identical to the 65W clip. At 200W, the Ultra X-Connect gets significantly louder still, but it's really beside the point since it has already crossed the noise threshold we consider to be acceptable for a quiet computer.
Click to expand...

This review was conducted as follows:

http://silentpcreview.com/article148-page1.html

Now lets see your "reviews"
 
Not to star a flame war or anything, but the reviews above were really not truely in depth as to how well the psu works... I personally go with the Sparkle 530 which is a measley $80 shipped from newegg. It is a GREAT PS and just a rung below a PC Power and Cooling. Sparkle IS Fortron which is an EXCELLENT PSU for those of us who don't want to drop a HUGE amount of money on a PSU but want to protect our investment. Just my two cents...
 
ThreeDee said:
http://www.systemcooling.com/xconnect-06.html

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=711&pageID=1091

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/Ultra_X-Connect_7.html

http://www.nextgenelectronics.com/ultrax500.php


...a little google'n and there yuh have it ..all links listed give good ratings on this psu


I just skipped to last page to see how they rated the psu , so dont know what methods they used for testing ..
Click to expand...

Excellent reviews.

All 4 sites plugged it in and it worked. I didn’t break. It powered a random system they had sitting around the shop and didn’t blow it up.

All 4 reviews like the “shiny case” “ detachable wires”

2 didn’t like that it showed fingerprints. They all liked that it came in colors and could be had for $100 on the net.

Oh and lest we forget, they all liked the specs, although not one site took the time to verify anything about the specs other then the PSU didn’t smoke right out of the box.

That should be enough science to satisfy the most demanding user for sure.
 
ComputerPro, I appreciate your summarization of the review, but I'd like to point out that no where in that review is it said the Ultra is an 'utter failure', or 'just another PowMax'.


Here’s right from your own review:

While the Ultra X-Connect 500W PSU is certainly competent in its ability to deliver power, it doesn't really fit SPCR's critera for a quiet component. The overall performance of the sample is more than adequate from a power delivery perspective, but leaves much to be desired from an acoustic perspective.
Click to expand...
This quote can be either a plus or minus. To me anything is 'silent' when compared to my previous OEM PSU. Silent isn't really what I'm looking for either, so the Ultra's noise factor isn't big in my books.


The modular cabling system is an excellent, well executed feature. We'd love to see more PSUs come with similar implementations to help prevent case clutter and facilitate efficient airflow.
Click to expand...
This is extremely important to me. No other PSU available has such well-done modular cabling. Even Antec's own NeoPower has modular features that pale in comparison to Ultra's.


It should also be said that with a bit of modding, this PSU could be quite good acoustically -- swapping out the stock fans with Panaflos is a move some quiet-oriented but bling-driven modders might consider.
Click to expand...

So even here there is hope for silent pc users.


Lastly, if you're looking for looks -- snazzy fan grill, UV-reactive cables, and high-gloss paint finish -- along with high power, then the Ultra X-Connect is certainly worthy of your consideration.
Click to expand...
Presentation--to some--is everything. Granted the Antec's and OCZ have their own visual style nothing really comes close to Ultra's. Basically, great modular features, impressive look and 'pizzaz', great initial voltages and stability and albeit somewhat cluttered insite the Ultra still, quote Silent PC, is "...certainly worthy of you consideration".

In the end, if you want (and can afford) a great, top line PSU, grab an OCZ. Alternatively, if you want a great PSU plus additional cosmetic and convenient features, grab an Ultra, either way you can't lose =)



EDIT: Sorry, one last quote from a review:

My computer is on permanently, and the CPU under load with Folding@Home 24 hours a day, and still the power supply is cool to the touch and very quiet. My computer has been running in this fashion with the power supply installed since mid-September, so you can definitely expect long-term continuous performance from this power supply.
Click to expand...
:)
 
well ...I'm more then happy with my PC P&C psu too ... :)

I skimmed on a couple reviews and didnt think there testing methods were ..um .. err ..were'nt .. uh .. I guess I dont really know how you would describe it ..lol

but hey ..if its worken out fer yuh , more power to yuh ..(pun might of been intended)
 
I think that Powmax added the inner fan grill because their outer grill has gaps big enough to poke a finger through them.

I'm another person who's found software voltage readings to be untrustworthy, the worst case being my ECS K7VTA3, which read 10.6V with MBM while my multimeter showed a rock steady 12.21V
 
Those other reviews suck big time

But I guess if you're happy with it and it didn't kill your system --- yet --- then it's all good. Personally I KNOW that psu would kill my old rig simply with the fluctuation; I had 3.8v going to my memory with a 3.3v line of 3.85v...if it fluctuated up to around 4.0v like that psu would bam there goes the memory and mobo. If it goes down to 3.7v bam restarts the machine. That's why I only use pcp&c in every single rig I build now, even for my customers. I mean, the 12v line stays exactly @ 12.3, 5v @ 5.25, and 3.3v @ 3.6. Thats exactly where I have set it with the pots. IT just doesn't move, not even .01.

But I suppose if you're not putting a heavy load on it it's good for however long it works.
 
If it ever kills my system I'll be the first one in here giving a shout out to everyone at [H] that the XConnect's suck. Until then, it's been the best PSU I've ever used ;) Overclocking has been much easier on this then my OEM :D
 
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