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New high end displays?

K

kingduqc

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
180
When will we be able to get 120 Hz with over 1080p resolution? I'm kinda wondering cause I want a 120 Hz monitor but don't want to downgrade the resolution? Not into monitors much so I figured it would be better to ask here if any got news/rumors on that note.

Also about OLED displays, when they are coming into the market?
 
@Medion
It's not trolling if you point out the problems with a Panel Technology,
All this IPS hyping and hiding the problems of IPS sucks big time that's way i also purchased a wrong Monitor.

@Kitarist
Go to youtube and search for IPS-Glow and you can make up your own mide about it. You don't notice IPS-Glow so much in a bright room but in a dark room you will see it good especially on dark image.

Here is a review of a Koran monitors they all use the same Panel: http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2012/test-shimian-qh270.html
One advantage do this Koran monitors have and this is they come without this aggressive AG-Coating that makes you feel like watching true a dirty plastic window.
Normal AG-Coating: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/F12Bwth2/GDM-FW900/IMG_7947.jpg
IPS Standard AG-Coating: http://cdn.overclock.net/e/eb/600x450px-LL-eb9efa0e_T3OJbl.jpeg
 
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Don't forget to mention that if you want higher contrast, you'll get color shift, lower sRGB coverage, a slower panel (not always) and sometimes crushed blacks (which makes the deeper blacks and higher contrast kind of meaningless, as you loose details).
 
I would not count soon on a orginal 120Hz IPS because they more aimed at Office users than Gamers or Movie watchers. There will be also real 120Hz MVA Panel out at the end of this yeah i would wait and see how this truns out before buying a Koring tuned up 120Hz Monitor.

Panel overview little less technical: ;-)
IPS Panel = For professional photography.
VA Panel = For movies (Most TV's have VA's Panels).
MVA Panel = Best allrounder but only the once with overdrive 6ms or less (They also VA Panels).
TN Panel = For gamers that play fast games and want little bit less ghosting.
 
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It has to do with bandwidth between the vid card, interface cabling, and monitor. 2560x1440@120hz would be too much bandwidth for even displayport I believe
 
Dual-Link DVI = 1,920 x 1,200 max at 120Hz max or 2,560 x 1,600 max at 60Hz max
DisplayPort 1.2 = 3840 x 2400 max at 60Hz max or 2560 x 1600 max at 120Hz max
 
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Well then my guess is a cost issue, sparse market for 2560x1440@120hz, or it's a matter of that that would be really hard for vid cards to push. Perhaps for non gaming use, but it's hard enough for vid cards to push 2560x1600 or 1440 at 60hz. Usually requires dual cards if trying to game at 60fps at that rez.
 
i love my IPS panel for gaming. glow doesnt bother me if its even there
 
Outbreaker said:
And get IPS-Glow with low contrast. :p
Click to expand...

Mind-Blown

I had no idea thats what that was all these years. I just recently switched from 3 Dell 2412m's, in surround/eyefinity I always noticed the bottom of the corners with that sheen/glow. In dark scenes(Day Z at night) it was really bad.
 
Outbreaker said:
Google "120Hz VA Monitor" and you will find some infos.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1322828620
http://pcmonitors.org/others/120hz-va-panels-en-route-for-2012
http://www.panelook.com/M270HW02 V2_AUO_27.0_LCM_overview_14490.html
Click to expand...

After using the 60hz version of those same panels, and that AOU themselves are stating an estimated 12ms response time (first version was 16ms without AMA/RTC/OD), I would feel confident in stating that these monitors will clearly show why you don't want a refresh rate that is too fast for your response time.

Don't get me wrong, I L-O-V-E VA panels, it's just that I am not very impressed with AOU's so far. Perhaps it was just BenQ's implementation, but we'll see. I just never liked advocating "waiting" for technology because you'll be waiting forever. If something is out now that meets your needs, get it. I finally did that, I'm happy, and I can wait for OLED to go somewhat mainstream.
 
@Martha Stewart
Than you can imagine how happy i was coming from a CRT and watching a movie in a drak room on a IPS monitor.

@Medion
If i'm not wrong than a 120Hz 3D monitor must have at least 8.3ms to work correctly.
And you problem with the BenQ was not the VA Panel itself but the controller or firmware that BenQ used in there VA Monitor. That's way i said you could buy the Philips 273E3QHSB if you don't want to gamble again this Monitor uses the same VA Panel but with another controller and firmware.
 
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Outbreaker said:
@Medion
If i'm not wrong than a 120Hz 3D monitor must have at least 8.3ms to work correctly.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you are wrong. You can have a response time of 1,000ms and still have a 60/120hz refresh rate, it just won't be pretty. Ideally, you'd want a real world response time of 8.3ms or less so that every pixel is updated on a refresh, otherwise you'll have artifacts and ghosting. However, this isn't the case and ghosting will still occur.

Even on the BenQ that we were discussing, the response time was only the optimal one. On the AMA OFF setting, Playwares measured 28.1ms as the worst transition speed. At the Premium (4ms advertised) setting, Playwares measured 12.4ms as the worst.

Bottom line is that ghosting is still noticeable. And, while this panel (the 60hz one) had a better overall tested response time than some of the better IPS panels out there, it was offset by having some really fast transitions and some very slow ones, whereas the tested IPS panels were more consistent, leading the BenQ to have more visible ghosting despite the better rated response time.

But my point wasn't that any one panel is better than the other (because they're not), but simply that what you posted does come across as trolling or thread crapping. Each panel types has weaknesses and IPS seems to be the best compromise for the largest group of people. Even I'm considering one is LG doesn't screw up the IPS277l. Also:

VA Panel = For movies (Most TV's have VA's Panels).
Click to expand...

Not true anymore. It's become very balanced between VA and IPS for HDTVs these days, with many lower-end models even having TN (though these are usually the TV/Monitor hybrids). LG's IPS panels have become very popular in modern HDTVs for various reasons.
 
Outbreaker said:
And get IPS-Glow with low contrast. :p
Click to expand...

low contrast as compared to what?


47224.png



a PVA panel ?


The contrast is fine. And the ips glow is not a big issue, get some better glasses sit further from the screen.


I'd love an OLED panel too for a monitor, but the first models would probably be 1080p and ridiculously expensive.
 
tybert - do you have a link to that full comparison? I'd like to know their methodology fir testing contrast, because the way they worded it (min/max brightness) has me worried. It might be just poor wording, but I like to check for myself.
 
Outbreaker said:
At 140 cd/m² it has only 480:1 contrast that is what i meant. ;-)
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2012/test-shimian-qh270-teil4.html

@Medion
I see a LOT more VA TV's coming out than IPS TV's.
And if IPS TV's have also this IPS-Glow this would be an horror on a big screen and everyone who likes to watch movies would throw this out of the window.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but you are exaggerating. If IPS was as bad as you claim, people wouldn't use them. They are the preferred panel right now, not just on this forum, but in general. Only reason that TN still outsells it is due to price. Also, IPS has become a major player in HDTVs. You can deny it all you want, but it's already there.

tybert7 said:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5885/the-achieva-shimian-qh270-a-350-27inch-wqhd-sips-display
Click to expand...

Thank you for that. I don't like the way that they explained it, but it seems like they measured contrast at the display's maximum brightness, rather than at a calibrated level. A display's contrast ratio can be very different at one brightness level than another, and there's no way I would ever use a display at 400nits. I'm currently using a display with the same panel as the Samsung 750D in that comparison, and it maxes around 350 nits. I have brightness at 60 which is as high as I'm willing to go.

However, don't take this as me bashing IPS over any of the other panels compared. I'm just taking THOSE results with a grain of salt, just as I would if someone ran 3DMark at 640x480, with all CP settings tuned for performance over quality, and then posted just a score.
 
Outbreaker said:
At 140 cd/m² it has only 480:1 contrast that is what i meant. ;-)
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2012/test-shimian-qh270-teil4.html

@Medion
I see a LOT more VA TV's coming out than IPS TV's.
And if IPS TV's have also this IPS-Glow this would be an horror on a big screen and everyone who likes to watch movies would throw this out of the window.
Click to expand...

The contrast decreases alot with the brightness way down... so don't turn the brightness way down for better contrast. I have the monitor and it looks fantastic, don't be led astray by some over the top black level snobbery. If you are so into that, wait for a pva.

To others worrying about the screen, the ips glow is not a big issue unless your face is too close to the screen. I don't notice it, at all, but I can create a video later on to show what goes on.

Honestly though, the fact that these monitors are still debatable "buys" defies belief to me, it is literally CRAZY for anyone without VERY specific technical needs to not jump on one or more of these.
 
tybert7 said:
The contrast decreases alot with the brightness way down...
Click to expand...

This is actually not true. White and black respond very differently to brightness levels. In many cases, drastically raising the brightness level will raise the black moreso than the white, causing a massive drop in measured contrast. Many TN panels seem to hit their peak contrast somewhere between 120-200 nits.

tybert7 said:
To others worrying about the screen, the ips glow is not a big issue unless your face is too close to the screen. I don't notice it, at all, but I can create a video later on to show what goes on.
Click to expand...

Different people are sensitive to different things. Some people are VERY bothered by IPS glow (like Outbreaker), while many don't even know it exists. I find it mildly annoying but not as bad as gamma shift on a TN.

tybert7 said:
Honestly though, the fact that these monitors are still debatable "buys" defies belief to me, it is literally CRAZY for anyone without VERY specific technical needs to not jump on one or more of these.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree, as I find a 27" 2560x1440 monitor to be a very specific need, not something the general population wants. Each "main" rig in my house (mine, my wife's) has a 27" panel, and anyone who comes over asks why the hell we'd want something so damn big on our desks. She does a lot of photo editing while I do a lot of gaming. It seems that the 19-22" range is still the sweet spot for the casual PC user.

A gamer should absolutely avoid these panels unless they have or intend on having the GPU power needed to drive them. Running games at a lower resolution would lead to scaling issues, thus negating the benefit of a higher resolution panel. Now, I know this is [H], but a blanket recommendation doesn't fit everyone. Many of our most vocal are the high-end GPU type of users, but look at the people that come here asking for advice. They're typically more casual users who are seeking help from those who know, and to give them blanket advice for something that is drastically beyond their needs is doing them a huge disservice.
 
@Medion
The facts are that i don't see a lot of IPS TV's around.
And only because IPS gets hyped doesn't mean it is better only see what happened to the CRT technology.
And by the way the contrast on the IPS Monitor i had (LG IPS235P) was a joke black was gray and this had also an impact on all the dark colors so real black is more important than 6% more RGB.

@tybert7
IPS-Glow is a big issue in a dark room with dark media content only watch the tons of youtube videos.
 
Outbreaker said:
The facts are that i don't see a lot of IPS TV's around.
Click to expand...

If I close my eyes, I can't see your post. Does this mean you didn't post?

Outbreaker said:
And only because IPS gets hyped doesn't mean it is better only see what happened to the CRT technology.
Click to expand...

I agree, hype isn't substance. However, LCDs were hyped over CRTs due to their slim design, lighter weight, and overall better aesthetics. Basically, form over function. IPS are hyped because they are an evolution in LCD technology that offer better OVERALL (not every area, just on average) performance.

Outbreaker said:
And by the way the contrast on the IPS Monitor i had (LG IPS235P) was a joke black was gray and this had also an impact on all dark colors so real black is more important than 6% more RGB.
Click to expand...

That's one monitor, a very cheap one at that. Not every IPS monitor performs like that one, just as not every VA panel performs like my BenQ. IPS has come a long way in terms of contrast, though it's still on average a little worse than TN. It's just not as bad as it was a few years ago (cheap models notwithstanding).

Outbreaker said:
so real black is more important than 6% more RGB.
Click to expand...

To you (and me, as well). However, the reason we still have three very distinct panel types on the market is because not everyone has the same tastes. You've made it very clear that IPS is not for you, but you keep giving opinion as fact. You're trying to tell tybert and me that we should not tolerate IPS glow when it's clearly not a problem for tybert, and it's a very minor issue for me. You're trying to get us to share your opinion, but we won't. Just as you are entitled to your opinion, we are entitled to ours.

Look, it's clear that you don't like IPS. You've made your point known. However, as I've said before, your posts are bordering on trolling. I am making the suggestion that we bail on this thread. I won't respond anymore because it's a disservice to those who want to participate on this topic without us derailing it. Let's just agree to disagree.
 
Outbreaker said:
@Medion
I see a LOT more VA TV's coming out than IPS TV's.
And if IPS TV's have also this IPS-Glow this would be an horror on a big screen and everyone who likes to watch movies would throw this out of the window.
Click to expand...

I agree with medion, you are exaggerating there. I have at least one (I suspect two) TVs with IPS panels. Only at extreme angles is glow a problem, and even then, it's purple rather than white glow.

IPS glow can be an issue with some monitors, however -- I agree with that. But don't act like it's going to bother everyone. To me, the AG coating is the bigger issue. That, and blacks are... eh... not so great.

The problem with stating VA monitors are better, etc etc ... even assuming your preferences are the same as everyone else's... is the heyday for VA monitors seems to have been about 4-5 years ago. Monitors using S-PVA or C-PVA (assuming you don't get black crush) look like they have better reviews than current A-MVA panels. A-MVA will have better blacks, but seemingly worse response times and rather crummy angles. And the sizes and resolutions are limited on these panels too.

So it's fine to say you dislike IPS glow, but remember for some it's not a dealbreaker. And unless you go with older monitors, I'm not sure there is a great way around it -- samsung or phillips a-mva, w/limited color coverage and in two sizes only, 16:9 only.
 
tybert7 said:
The contrast decreases alot with the brightness way down... so don't turn the brightness way down for better contrast. I have the monitor and it looks fantastic, don't be led astray by some over the top black level snobbery. If you are so into that, wait for a pva.

To others worrying about the screen, the ips glow is not a big issue unless your face is too close to the screen. I don't notice it, at all, but I can create a video later on to show what goes on.

Honestly though, the fact that these monitors are still debatable "buys" defies belief to me, it is literally CRAZY for anyone without VERY specific technical needs to not jump on one or more of these.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with Medion in that a monitor with such a high resolution at such "high price" is a niche market to begin with. I don't think most people will spend much more than 200$ on a monitor.

I feel like the Korean models are great for the budget-minded elitist gamer - someone younger, someone with less funds, someone that just doesn't want to spend closer to a 1000$ that still wants a good display at a competitive price. A professional will generally spend more on a more accurate display (as it is a business expense and can be deducted anyway), and an elitist with enough disposable income will spend more money for "the best" instead of "the best for the money".

But the bottom line is, you know you are getting an inferior display. The stands are cheap, the panels are A- so there will generally be dead pixels or backlight bleeding... They're a great buy if you don't want to pay more, sure. Most people will probably not even notice the flaws either.

There's also the issue of long-term reliability, possibly having to change the stand, the power brick... These monitors are new and there are already reports of problems cropping up down the road from people that bought them a few months ago.

Personally, if my budget was 400$ or less, I would probably have gotten a Korean monitor. However, saying that they are the "best buy" is not necessarily true depending on what your needs are.
 
kingduqc said:
When will we be able to get 120 Hz with over 1080p resolution? I'm kinda wondering cause I want a 120 Hz monitor but don't want to downgrade the resolution? Not into monitors much so I figured it would be better to ask here if any got news/rumors on that note.

Also about OLED displays, when they are coming into the market?
Click to expand...

To get back on topic:

Currently 120hz is limited to 1080p TN panels. There is the exception of the 120hz Catleap (and one more coming from 120hz.net). We should see 1080p VA panels late this year or early 2013 if AOU is to be believed. I don't think we'll start seeing domestic 120hz IPS panels at 2560x1440 until the end of 2013 if not a little later, but that's just speculation on my part. It's a very niche market and there is very little hardware out there even capable of driving such a display, let alone play games on it.

For now, your only option for what you want is to get a specific Korean monitor.
 
Untile OLED hits the market for good, we are stuck with the handicapped and lacklustre technology known as LCD (poor contrast ratio, medium to poor viewing angles, average respond time, uniformity issues, etc. etc.).
 
My nec wuxi 2690 calibrated with eye 1 is still better then anything out there for what i paid

400 bucks lol i have 2 of them now

made in 2008 lol
 
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