New Faq Wrong?

[Laforge]

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[Mister X]

turn off the matrixing the receiver is doing and then tell us what you get

 

[SilverMK3]

Dolby ProLogic does not equal Dolby Digital.

The Hurcules card is sending a 2-channel PCM signal over SPDIF and your receiver is matrixing it to 5.1 channels via Dolby ProLogic, DTS Neo6, or some other algorhythm.

You've got a digital connection, buts its not a discrete 6-channel solution. You're losing the original multichannel mix and attempting to recreate it from a 2 channels.

 

[Laforge]

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[Laforge]

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[Mister X]

If I was matrix'ing, Wouldn't I be "6.1"?

No.

It's already off..

Excuse me if I seem overly skeptical but the last four people that said the same thing all came back within the next day and said ooops I was wrong... prologic or NEO was on

WHen it's a prologic source, then the D|D PL light comes on..

Prologic source?
Umm, yea.

Lets put it this way.. there are 5 different 'lights' that can display on my receiver..

They are :

DTS
Matrix
D|D Digital
D|D PL
D|D PL II

currently, only D|D digital is on.

Translation:
Just because my receiver says it's DTS I believe that my sound card can do something others are telling me it can't do?

Lets put it this way.... that is a inconclusive argument to say the least.
Post a picture and let us see what you see.

Is that why I can hear discrete sounds in each speaker?

The last guy said the same thing.

Or if i do the hercules sound card test, it can rotate different sounds to each speaker?

Now that is a good question.
But that is hardly conclusive proof that your card is outputing a multichannel digital audio stream in games (something it cannot do).

http://www.hwzone.co.il/cgi-bin/newspro/printnews.cgi?newsid1070976177,80301,

Let me highlight this review, so people don't have to read the entire thing.

Sound quality
The Digifire, as any mid-range sound card, is intended also for PC games with support of such standards as EAX 1, EAX 2, Sensaura, DirectSound 3D and ofcourse Stereo.
When testing the card in games, I connected it to a 5.1 channels system...
In the game Need For Speed: Underground (which is also THX approved) I could clearly hear (and feel) as the other cars drove past me (I'm a poor driver) at 185MPH, the sound was clean and balanced and every little detail sounded clearly.
The feel of realism in the game became incredible as the screech of the tires and the roaring engines which the game produced (with the generous help of the card) pushed the the gaming experience one step closer to reality, at least on the part of the feeling that the sound created

Movies

For testing the sound quality in movies I have used several AC-3 (Dolby Digital, 5.1 channels encoded titles, in conjuction with my 5.1 system which I previously described.
This is in fact the part where the card impressed me the most, since in the movie "The Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers", in the scene of the Battle of Helm's Deep, I was simply stunned by the sound the card produced which gave me an extraordinary feeling of realism as the hoofs of the horses, the clash of the swords and the great explosion in the wall dragged me deep inside the world of the movie

Conclusion

What Hercules have managed to create here is a card that delivers impressive performance in every area, be it in music or games and movies, the card achieves a sense of realism and performance that is rarely known to most home users.
The quality of this card is far better than the SoundStorm (which is considered to be of a relatively high level), which is yet another indication of how good this card really is and to top that, the card also offers two FireWire ports, a feature that gives extra value to your money.
As an audiophile, I was certainly impressed by this card and I recommend to anyone who is looking for a cheap ($80) yet powerful solution, to take a good look at this product, because this is probably exactly what you need

Pros

• Support for 7.1 channels
• Onboard FireWire controller
• Digital Optical output
• Low Price
• Many configuration options and an easy-to-use driver interface
• Excellent headphones output

Cons

• Somewhat troublesome driver installation
• Relatively high CPU usage

What does that have to do with the FAQ being wrong?

 

[Laforge]

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[jpmkm]

Anything already dolby digital encoded(including ripped dvds) is just going to be spit out your digitial out without your sound card doing a damn thing to it, so of course your receiver will show dolby digital then. That doesn't mean your sound card is anything spectacular; el cheapo $20 sound cards can do that.

 

[Laforge]

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[SilverMK3]

Ok, so, I guess the might mister x can never be mistaken. I'm guessing the the documentation for the hardware is wrong, the descriptions from dolby are wrong, and yamaha's DSP is wrong..

Please link us to the documentation where it says that the digifire can encode Dolby Digital streams in real time.

When I watch DVD movies that say "Dolby Digital 5.1" on the box (such as the matrix) that I'm using the "AC-3" channel on, I hear positional audio. Cars drive past, and around me, bullets whiz past, etc.. but I guess i'm getting that 5.1 channels of audio from a 2 channel stereo sound..

The AC3 track on the DVD was encoded when the DVD was mastered, your soundcard is just passing the audio stream to your receiver for decoding.

If I dvd shrink out a movie, and take out all the audio tracks except for the AC-3 one, I can still hear full surround. If it was PCM audio track being upscaled, then, i'd not HEAR ANYTHING since there would be no audio data to upsample

Again, you're preserving the pre-encoded DD track and passing it to your receiver. You're confusing on-the-fly encoding with SPDIF pass-through.

I guess i'm taking in ac3 sound with powerdvd.. converting it from 5.1 discrete digital channels, converting it to 2.0 analog channels, then converting it back into digital data, (but leaving it in stereo) pushing it over an optical cable, receiving it as digital data, then converting it to analog data, then back to digital data, creating 3.1 channels of digital sound data out of thin air [remember, that data has been stripped already], breaking that distinct sound into proper different data channels for positional audio (again, out of thin air) and upsampling it.

No, again, you're passing the existing AC3 data to the receiver

I know enough to know that when you have STEREO analog signals, and you multiply it onto 4, 6, or 48 speakers, all you get is stereo that's on more speakers.

True enough. But that's not what's happening when stereo sound is matrixed to a center channel, surrounds, and a subwoofer with Pro Logic, Neo 6, Logic 7, or what have you.

It has to do with the fact that i don't think you've put together this configuration and tested it. - It has to do with the fact that a reviewer can actually hear the sound seperation. You are going by some non proven idea because nvidia says they are the only ones who can do this.

If you're listening to pre-authored DTS or Dolby DIgital content then I have no doubt that you're hearing excellent channel separation. If you're telling me that you can hear precise 6ch positional audio from WinAmp or Need for Speed when your only connection from your computer to your receiver is an TosLink cable and you don't have a hardware encoder, then you must be matrixing it on your receiver.

When I search for "nvidia" on dolby's website, I find NO references.. SO, that means what.. nvidia isn't licensing dolby technology and making the entire thing up? -- No.
It means that the documentation of the features of some hardware out there is not complete.

The Dolby Interactive Content Encoder IC used in the XBOX console and the nForce2 APU, and the Dolby Digital Live IC used in some Intel HD Audio capable motherboards and potentially this sound card are the only technologies that claim to be able to encode multichannel Dolby Digital streams on the fly. Your Hurcules card is equipped with neither of these technologies. The logos on the box simply mean that the card is capable of decoding Dolby Digital information and outputting it through the discrete analog jacks on the back of the card, or passing the Dolby Digital stream - untouched - through the SPDIF port to a receiver capable of decoding it.

 

[jpmkm]

How exactly does this conflict with the faq? The part you quoted made no mention of pre-encoded sources. It was only talking about dolby digital encoding(on the fly), which your card does not do. Just about every card that has a digital output will do dolby digital passthrough. It isn't encoding anything. It does't care what it is. It just sees a digital stream and it throws it out there for your receiver to deal with. This is NOT what the soundstorm does. The soundstorm actually encodes dolby digital from unencoded audio.

You don't need optical to get digital out. Digital works just fine over a coaxial cable, and most el cheapo $20 sound cards have a coax digital out.

 

[SilverMK3]

Right.

So a video game that's already got Dolby Digital sound in it is just going to jump off of my sound card and pour into my receiver that has an ACTUAL decoder in it.

So.. that means.. that my sound card allows for dolby digital out.

Thank you for proving my point.

and that would be any "el cheapo" sound card that happens to have an optical output plug, no? since "headphone plugs" are not digital, but analog

There is no such thing as a video game that has Dolby Digital sound pre-encoded on it. There is no way a developer could predict all of your in-game sound effects and positioning and record 6 different tracks for every conceivable scenario. If you look at the system requirements on any game that has the Dolby Digital logo on it, you'll see the following quote (Taken from my UT2K4 box):

Windows(R) compatible sound card (RECOMMENDED). NVIDIA(R) nForce(tm) or other motherboards/soundcards containing the Dolby(R) Digital Interactive Content Encoder required for Dolby Digital audio.

 

[Mister X]

Ok, so, I guess the might mister x can never be mistaken. I'm guessing the the documentation for the hardware is wrong, the descriptions from dolby are wrong, and yamaha's DSP is wrong..

What documentation?
What description?
What DSP?
Did I miss them?
Because I can't seem to find were you provided any of those in this thread.

As far as your asinine comment about me being mistaken goes.... show me that the author of the FAQ is wrong and I will be more then happy to edit it.


Edited: the rest.
Oooooops sorry about the redundant reply.

 

[Laforge]

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[jpmkm]

The thing is, you haven't presented any documentation or actual facts.

 

[Laforge]

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[Mister X]

What a shame...
There were a few good points made here that could have gone a long way to improving the FAQ.

Do you guys (and gals) think we should re-edit the paragraph in question to sort out the confusion or do you think it's ok as is?

Edit:
OK.. ask and ye shall receive
Thread closed.

 

[Laforge]

What a shame...
There were a few good points made here that could have gone a long way to improving the FAQ.

Do you guys (and gals) think we should re-edit the paragraph in question to sort out the confusion or do you think it's ok as is?

I just want to close the thread.