Need your help "Forcing" a certain refresh rate!! Please

newls1

newls1

Supreme [H]ardness
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Sep 8, 2003
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I just installed my new 8800 GTS 640Mb and can't seem to run the same refresh rate that I did when I was using my old ATi card. Im looking to run 1440x900 @ 75HZ, and cant seem to do that. I've tried using riva tuner to force it, but cant figure it out, tried refresh force, but that didnt work either. Im at a complete pissed off state here, and know that one of you smart people can help me figure this out. If it matters im using driver 163.44
 
newls1 said:
I just installed my new 8800 GTS 640Mb and can't seem to run the same refresh rate that I did when I was using my old ATi card. Im looking to run 1440x900 @ 75HZ, and cant seem to do that. I've tried using riva tuner to force it, but cant figure it out, tried refresh force, but that didnt work either. Im at a complete pissed off state here, and know that one of you smart people can help me figure this out. If it matters im using driver 163.44
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what monitor is it you're using?
 
thanks for your help people, however everything im trying still wont work. Could this be a driver issue?
 
Most likely, do you have the proper monitor drivers installed? They should list the total possible resolutions and their respective refresh rate. It's quite uncommon for an LCD to have over 60Hz refresh rate.

Are you running at the same resolution as before? That will effect the maximum refresh rate possible of the monitor.
 
usually most LCDs i have seen allowed you to run 75hz on the second to highest resolution. like my dell 2007fp i run it at 1600x1200 at 60hz but if i do it at 1280x1024 i can run 75hz. Some gaming lcds are the same way most can do 75hz at 1280x1024 like my acer al1951.

to the OP did you use driver cleanup to remove the old drivers?
 
It's not a driver issue. Your monitor actually support 60hz at the highest resolution. What you are doing is overclocking your monitor. It can also damage your screen but I haven't seen LCD that break running higher refresh rate. I've heard of CRT that break though. Nvidia drivers only support 60hz and ATI has an option to run higher refresh rates. ATI has the bug or maybe you can call it a feature. Nvidia is doing what they're supposed to be doing.

That is why I suggested you try a third party software like Power Strip to overclock your refresh rate.

Check your monitor specs to see what is supported at the resolution you are trying to achieve.
 
Frosteh said:
Most likely, do you have the proper monitor drivers installed? They should list the total possible resolutions and their respective refresh rate. It's quite uncommon for an LCD to have over 60Hz refresh rate.

Are you running at the same resolution as before? That will effect the maximum refresh rate possible of the monitor.
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there are no drivers for my moniter. I've searched and searched and searched to no avail.
 
I have my monitor drivers installed and it still don't have an option for me to run 75htz with Nvidia drivers because my monitor only supports 60htz at native screen resolution.
 
Marvelous said:
not true
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even if you can get you software to say 75, it'll still be 59-60 period. We are not talking about CRTs so refresh rates are meaningless. The monitor ultimately makes the final say.

If you were using a RR of 60 on a CRT of any size, you'd probably get a headache. 75-85 was normally optimal for your avg monitors. Some would counter that with higher like 100hz.

You have other things more concerning that something you can't control with LCDs. Response times, Pixel damage and ICR to name a few.
 
btw, I hope all this concern about making your LCD work at a higher RR isn't related to playing games w/VS on.
 
Pkirk618 said:
Marvelous said:
Pkirk618 said:
LCD = 60hz.
Click to expand...
not true
Click to expand...
even if you can get you software to say 75, it'll still be 59-60 period. We are not talking about CRTs so refresh rates are meaningless. The monitor ultimately makes the final say.
Click to expand...

Pkirk618, your last sentence is correct, but only the last sentence. Yes, 59-60Hz is very common for LCDs but it is not true that LCD=60Hz.

Here is a quick sample of the technical specs of just a few of the hundreds of LCD modules that are used in LCD monitors and TVs.

LG.Philips LCD - 19" LM190E05-SL03 - 1280x1024 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 47-76 Hz
LG.Philips LCD - 20.1" LM190E05-SL03 - 1680x1050 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: fixed at 59.883Hz
Chi Mei Optoelectronics - 22" M220Z1-L01 - 1680x1050 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 50-76 Hz
Beijing BOE Optoelectronics - 19" HT190WG1-100 - 1440x900 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 56-76 Hz
AU Optronics - 37" T370XW01 v0 - 1366x768 - 1ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 48-52Hz or 58-62Hz
AU Optronics - 22" M220EW01 V0 - 1680x1050 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: fixed at 60Hz
AU Optronics - 37" T370HW01 V0 - 1920x1080 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 60Hz (supposedly)
Chi Mei Optoelectronics - 37" V370H1-L03 - 1920x1080 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 47-53Hz or 57-63Hz (supposedly)
Samsung - 24" LTM240M2-L02 - 1920x1200 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 57-63 Hz
Samsung - 27" LTM270M1-L01 - 1920x1200 - 2ch LVDS - vertical frame rate: 57-63 Hz
Sharp - 28" LQ281L1LW11 - 2048x2048 - quad-link TMDS - vertical frame rate: 50-70 Hz
Sharp - 28.3" LQ283G1TW11 - 2560x2048 - quad-link TMDS - vertical frame rate: 60-75 Hz

Clearly, some LCD modules are made to work only at 59-60hz, or only 50Hz or 60Hz; but there are definitely modules out there that can do 75Hz ... and do 75Hz at decent resolutions such as 1440x900p75, 1680x1050p75, and even 2048/2560x2048p75 (these two are for air traffic control and medical imaging and you tend not to get much change out of $10,000 :).

But if the manufacturer of the display hasn't enabled it (i.e. "The monitor ultimately makes the final say") that's another matter ... and the end user may or may not be able to force the display to do what the module is capable of.

Marvelous said:
It's not a driver issue. Your monitor actually support 60hz at the highest resolution. ... Check your monitor specs to see what is supported at the resolution you are trying to achieve.
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I can't find any details on the LCD module used in the OP's CMV-946D, however the Australian website for the monitor lists the vertical refresh rate as 56-76Hz -- but doesn't specify if this is for VGA or DVI, nor if it is for native resolution.

As a comparison, all the following monitors use the CMO M220Z1-L0x (ref1, ref 2), and so should be capable of 1680x1050p75: Acer AL2216W; Benq FP222W; Viewsonic VX2235WM; Chi Mei 221D; Asus MW221U.

But of course, whether the manufacturer has enabled it is another matter. For example, the Acer is the only one to state the maximum resolution as 1680x1050@75Hz (but even that doesn't say if it is over VGA or DVI or both). In contrast the V7 L22WD (available in Europe & North America) which also uses the CMO M220Z1-L03, states 75Hz for 1440x900, but only 60Hz for 1680x1050p60.

luke51087 said:
usually most LCDs i have seen allowed you to run 75hz on the second to highest resolution. like my dell 2007fp i run it at 1600x1200 at 60hz but if i do it at 1280x1024 i can run 75hz.
Click to expand...

Some displays (dunno about the 2007fp in particular) support these higher refresh rates via hardware frame-rate conversion to 60Hz.

For example, the Dell 24" and 27" displays say they support 1280x1024p75, but they all use LCD modules with 2ch LVDS interfaces that are limited to 57-63Hz (see the Samsung module specs noted earlier).

So how do these monitors handle 1280x1024p75? By the display controller doing a 75Hz > 60Hz frame rate conversion. The Dell 2405 uses the Genesis (Faroudja) GM1601 (non-HDCP version) Single-Chip WUXGA Display Controller. The Dell 2407 (and I think the 2707 too) uses the Genesis (Faroudja) FLI5962H (H = HDCP) Multi-Function LCD Monitor Controller WUXGA. Both of these controllers are designed to run at a maximum of 1920x1200p60, so they can't send 1280x1024p75 scaled onto 1920x1200p75 (and anyway, the LCD modules cannot accept a 75Hz signal over the LVDS interface even if the controller tried to send it).

As there are monitors which support 1680x1050p75, why don't the 2405/2407/2707 accept 1680x1050p75? Because the display controllers haven't been made to do full frame rate conversion at greater than SXGA 75 Hz (listed in the display controllers' product briefs).

As a counterpoint, I noted earlier that the AUO T370HW01 is supposedly set for 1920x1080p60, and the CMO for 1920x1080p50/60; but a TV using the AUO has been pushed to 1920x1080p72 and one using the CMO has been pushed to 1919x1080p72 and 1919x1080p74.4 ... but it is not known what DSPs were involved.



This misconception that LCDs can only do 60Hz has a very understandable origin.

Many of the biggest computer and consumer electronics makers are based in the USA, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea. All these countries use 60Hz power and NTSC TV systems. If you look at the OECD countries as being representative of first world nations (and include Taiwan which is an observer member of the OECD) there are six countries that use 60Hz & NTSC, have a combined population of 633 million, and a combined GDP of 20.3 trillion US$. In contrast, there are 25 countries that use 50Hz & PAL/SECAM, have a combined population of 558 million, and a combined GDP of 14.7 trillion US$. (2005 figures, 2006 & 2007 for Taiwan.)

I.e, although the OECD market for 60Hz and non-60Hz products is nearly the same population-wise, the 60Hz market is less fragmented and more affluent (per capita GDP is over 20% higher, nearly 40% higher if Mexico is excluded).

So, the major computer and consumer electronics makers design for their own (60Hz) markets, and if the rest of the world is lucky other capabilities (e.g. 50Hz, 72Hz, 75Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz) are added.

(Refs: http://titania.sourceoecd.org/vl=11018352/cl=13/nw=1/rpsv/factbook/ https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/tw.html http://www.vidpro.org/standards.htm)
 
For now, the typical common LCD understaning is that they operate at or around 60. This information probably is more in line with what the OP was going after. Chances are, the ATI and NVIDIA diff in their software is probably negligible. Meaning, he wont be able to force a higher RR no matter what.

Perhaps your vast amount of knowledge in the area of displays should have been posted earlier rather than now. To prove the exceptions at this point is rather tacky. Meaning, it doesn't help the OP.

I'm not going to post in here again. Besides, you got it covered.
 
http://www.pagehosting.co.uk/rf/

Best refresh rate setting program in my opinion. Just set the refresh rates you want, then go to your display properties and set it to a different solution and then set it back to the one you want. This should force the resolutions/refresh rate restrictions you want as long as you checked "Hide modes this monitor cannot display" in the section where you choose the refresh rate.
 
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